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I personally have Duran as number 1, but there are 3 fighters that I really think could've him major problems at Lightweight
Joe Gans
Benny Leonard
Julio Cesar Chavez
Do any of these have a claim to be number 1 or could they have beaten Duran?
P.S I didn't include Sweet P, as he fought at Lightweight in his early fights.
I believe Pernell Whitaker would of beat Roberto Duran, you say his early fights were at Lightweight. But he beat some very good pressure fighters at Lightweight Jose Luis Ramirez, Azumah Nelson, Greg Haugen.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
And he beat all 3 of them pretty comfortably, even Azumah Nelson lost 8 rounds to 4 on my card. I think Roberto Duran would of been so frustrated by Pernell Whitaker's defense.
And even if Roberto Duran tried to swarm Pernell Whitaker, Pernell Whitaker had a very high workrate himself at Lightweight. Plus he had a very good chin.
As for some more fighters that could of beaten him at Lightweight.
Alexis Arguello
Shane Mosley
Floyd Mayweather Jr
ODLH
And maybe a prime Hector Camacho, although that might be reaching.
Wow!! Sorry but no way I agree with those picks.
There is no way in hell Camacho would beat Duran at lightweight. Camacho-Duran would look worse that Chavez-Camacho.
As much as I love Alexis Arguello he would be way under sized for Duran at Lightweight. Duran was knocking out middle weights and super middleweights even at the end of his career. Duran was a murderous punch and a brilliant boxer.
Shane Mosley, Floyd Mayweather Jr & Oscar didn't have the punch at 135 to dent Duran chin so he wouldn't respect there power. Shane would come the closest but still I don't see him beating Roberto.
Besides the greatest lightweight of all time was Benny Leonard. Ray Arcel trained both fighters during there primes and he said Benny was the better boxer and would have beaten Duran. I agree SweetPea would have also beaten Duran.
At lightweight Pernell Whitaker had the syle to beat any fighter in history.
They would be challengers. But that's it. Duran is number 1 for me at LightweightQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I never said Hector Camacho would beat Robero Duran, i was just throwing some names out there that would of gave him a good fight. I don't think he would of beat Roberto Duran, but i do think a prime Hector Camacho gives him fits for atleast 6 rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdonaher1
However i disagree that fighters like ODLH, Floyd Mayweather, Alexis Arguello, Shane Mosley. Wouldn't of beat Roberto Duran or atleast wouldn't of had a great chance.
Alexis Arguello was still fantastic at Lightweight, and i don't see him being undersized at all. He was a fantastic puncher who was great at fighting at mid/long distance. And he still showed that at Lightweight.
ODLH didn't have power at Lightweight ? sorry bro but you gotta be kidding me there. He was a great puncher at the lower weightclasses, and only one opponent went the distance with him at Lightweight, plus he would of had the size advantage and the speed advantage.
Floyd Mayweather Jr may not have been a great puncher, but he still had some pop at the lower weightclasses, and Floyd Mayweather Jr like Pernell Whitaker don't need power to beat Roberto Duran. They can both possibly outbox Roberto Duran, Pernell Whitaker with his unorthodox defensive abilities, and Floyd Mayweather Jr with his technical defensive abilities.
And lastly Shane Mosley was just unbelievable fast, at Lightweight with great punching power to go with it. I wouldn't be suprised if Shane Mosley floored Roberto Duran and beat him over the distance.
Oscar was just a kid when he fought at Lightweight and was not anywhere near the complete fighter he became at Welterweight. He was a one handed fighter at Lightweight and fought a lot of Jr. Lightweights coming up for a payday. He was dropped a few times by club fighters as well.
Floyd only had a few fights at Lightweight and one of them he lost IMO (1st fight with Castillio). If he couldn't handle Castillios pressure how is he gonna deal with Durans?
Like I said Mosley is the guy who comes closest. He's never been KO'd so he's got the chin, he was still throwing combo's at 135, was an excellent boxer and always came to fight. He comes closest. If they fight a best of five I say it's 2-2-1 with all fights close.
I think Duran would have been a little too much for Arguello, Chavez, and Mosley. IMO Mosley looked great at LW, but I think he would have had a ton of problems with a pressure fighter like DUran, who would not allow him to get off. Not only that but Duran isn't a super easy guy to hit cleanly, the big advantages over Chavez that he had were in the speed and outboxing department.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI never said Hector Camacho would beat Robero Duran, i was just throwing some names out there that would of gave him a good fight. I don't think he would of beat Roberto Duran, but i do think a prime Hector Camacho gives him fits for atleast 6 rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdonaher1
However i disagree that fighters like ODLH, Floyd Mayweather, Alexis Arguello, Shane Mosley. Wouldn't of beat Roberto Duran or atleast wouldn't of had a great chance.
Alexis Arguello was still fantastic at Lightweight, and i don't see him being undersized at all. He was a fantastic puncher who was great at fighting at mid/long distance. And he still showed that at Lightweight.
ODLH didn't have power at Lightweight ? sorry bro but you gotta be kidding me there. He was a great puncher at the lower weightclasses, and only one opponent went the distance with him at Lightweight, plus he would of had the size advantage and the speed advantage.
Floyd Mayweather Jr may not have been a great puncher, but he still had some pop at the lower weightclasses, and Floyd Mayweather Jr like Pernell Whitaker don't need power to beat Roberto Duran. They can both possibly outbox Roberto Duran, Pernell Whitaker with his unorthodox defensive abilities, and Floyd Mayweather Jr with his technical defensive abilities.
And lastly Shane Mosley was just unbelievable fast, at Lightweight with great punching power to go with it. I wouldn't be suprised if Shane Mosley floored Roberto Duran and beat him over the distance.
I think Mayweather-Duran would have been a great fight, Mayweather had such great speed at LW, and used footwork more than Whitaker. I see him staying away ala Leonard, and never comitting against Duran, I think he would win a close fight where neither guy is super effective(think Leonard-Duran II).
Whitaker-DUran: I am 50/50 with this one. I think if Whitaker could keep the fight at distance he would be ok, but if Duran found a way to smother him, I think then Pernell is in serious trouble, Duran is so effective on the inside, I don't think Pernell's defensive style is as effective when fighting a guy like DUran, all that being said, Pernell is Pernell and he is a true wildcard, I could also see him frustrating Duran with the jab and his defensive tactics on the outside.
Castillo didn't apply the kind of pressure Floyd likes, he loves when you come in throwing punches, which DUran does, Castillo didn't do that, he came with a little head movement and let FLoyd back up into the ropes before he would throw his punches. I think Mayweather as he showed agianst Hatton deals with hungrier pressure better than slow methodical pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdonaher1
The ring mag did a review of the LW's in 1987 and they had Benny Leonard top with Duran second.
I dont think Alexis would have beaten Duran , Duran for me TKO's him late.
Sweetpea outpoints Duran UD .
Suger Shane outpoints him MD.
But these are all opinions , im happy for anyone to disagree as these are all fantastic fighters.
Shane knocked out all but two opponents. And Duran is probably second most overrated fighter in history IMO. Sweet pea and Shane would kick the shit out of Duran. And floyd would circle and and out box him.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdonaher1
I really don't give passes to the old guys just because they were good first. Duran was good. But Sweet Pea, SHane, and Floyd were and are better boxers than he was.
I think Duran could have beaten the majority of great lightweights...I think even Sweet Pea would have gotten outworked, could have been close, but Duran had very underrated defense.
Benny Leonard was supposed to be like a cat, could not hit him and had tremendous skill. There were other great lightweights Joe Gans, Barney Ross, Henry Armstrong, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery, Joe Brown, solid fighters that would give Duran a good contest.
ODH would not be ready for Duran but Mosley and Mayweather would give it a good go, only Pernell Whitaker could possibly beat him.
Pernell stands out,stylistically he could give Duran shite fits.Love Mosley but honestly don't think we really saw the very best he could be at Lightweight,in terms of big fights and true adversity ....Molina and Leija good scalps but I think Duran could nullify his combination puching...keep him standing still.....Duran vs. Wolgast might have been x rated :shinner:
Marquez and Duran at light.fun stuff.Maybe a case of both on opposite ends.Duran may just cut him up?
The only Film of Leanord was when He made a comback after 10 years out of the Game, even then He was impressive. Terrific posture and could Hit, at His peak a handfull for anyone, Great Fighter.
The only 3 Lightweights i give any chance of success against Duran would be
Arguello
Whitaker
Mosley
I believe Carlos Ortiz would have been a handful for Duran in his prime.
I think prime Duran beats them all, however let's not forget how well Esteban De Jesus went against Duran in 3 fights, all of the above mentioned would give Duran trouble. De Jesus would have been a difficult opponent for those guys as well.
Pernell would have a chance, maybe a snowballs chance, but still a chance with a prime 1975 Duran. Lets face it, Duran lost a non title fight, right after winning the title, against Esteban DeJesus so he was mortal. Pernell would have to be on top of his game. But when wasn't he? Before he got old that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
Whittaker would beat Duran, no doubt in my mind. If Leonard who in his 2nd fight could outbox and clown Duran into quitting and making excuses, what do you think Pernell would do? Pernell was a masterful boxer that could outbox and clown a guy. The only way Duran would win was if the judges were blind kind of like the judges in Pernells early losses and draw.
I'll take the Slick masterful defensive boxer over aggressive offensive juggernaut.
Please dont forget we are talking about LW division , Leonard fought Duran at WW , so that point is not valid .Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
It's actually valid. It would be an UD victory for Whittaker. If Duran quits against Leonard who was outboxing and clowning on him I can actually picture a Duran in frustration quitting against a Pernell Whittaker at 135, 140, and 147. Remember this Whittaker was virtually unbeatable at 135 and in his prime. In fact no one actually beat Whittaker while he was in his prime at 135, 140, and 147. All of his losses have been controversial, even in his draw against JCC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlPlease dont forget we are talking about LW division , Leonard fought Duran at WW , so that point is not valid .Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
In boxing history it has been proven that most of the time, the slick boxer beats the aggressive offensive fighter, especially one that likes to bang and brawl. Almost in every weight class this has been proven to be true, there are exceptions but they are rare.
General know where youre coming from, I never saw Pernel actually lose ;D great fighter. But Ray had the sting to get His respect Durans that is, thats the crunch plus Sweet Boxed 6" closer than Ray. Thats where I think the problem lay, that was Durans distance.