The Riddick Bowe that Beat Holyfield Vs The Buster Douglas that beat Tyson

I've said loads of times before there is a vast difference between 'The Best' and 'The Greatest' Heavyweights. These 2 were nowhere near and any all time list for The Greatest, BUT on their very best night (and each only really had one great night) they would've been a match for any heavyweight in history imo!

So who do you think would've one between these two...........and how do you think they would've faired against the all time greats, if they had met them on those one great nights?

Id say Bowe. He ranks as the 4th best heavyweight of the modern era behind Lewis, Holyfield and Tyson.

Douglas really just had that 1 win and I still dispute that win because Tyson knocked him out in the 8th. Bowe did recapture a title and he beat Evander again afew years later. What really ruined Bowes rep was his reluctance to avenge his olympic loss to Lewis.

Easily Buster for me. On that night I don't think anyone would have beat Buster that was 6'5 235-240 pound punching machine. Everything looked perfect on Buster that night.

Riddick Bowe struggled against fighters with a decent jab, aka Andrew Golota x2, Tyrell Biggs. Or against fighters who fought him on the outside aka Evander Holyfield 2, Tony Tubbs. Buster Douglas by decision IMO although thinking about it his stamina maybe a bit suspect.

I remember he had a good performance against Tony Tucker. Then when the going got tough he basically quit. He was never really pressured by Mike Tyson. And Mike Tyson was horrible in that fight, no head movement and his corner were shocking. Not even having a ends-well, so its a bit hard to judge just how bad Mike Tyson was, or how good Buster Douglas was.

I'd side with Douglas.Alot is made of where Tyson was physically and mentallly,justifiably...but those long to short combinations Buster was hurling were just awesome.Crisp,fluid and the jab at its best.His mind was right...although for a split second when he was laying there I worried he was going to flash back to the comforts of his stool ala the Tucker fight.He was the complete tip top package that night and I think he could have topped more than a few heavys of days gone by.

Bowe,who knows really?He was inspired vs. Holyfield,the jab was pin point and in shape but frankly Holyfield fought a dumb fight and offered little in the way of imagination and brought the heart and guts to the front.Bowe might give him problems on the inside but Bowe has always been hittable.Martin,Coetzer,Hide among others all gave him pause when they should not have.Douglas was not the only one with focus,dedication problems,Bowe had his fill also and I think Douglas would have pushed him harder this night.

On any other night in their careers I'd take Bowe easily, he had the talent to be up there with the best, just not the determination. However, on that one night, with Douglas determined to win the fight for his mother's memory, I honestly don't think that he could be denied. On that night I'd give him a decent chance against any HW in history, despite being infinitely less talented, he struck me as a guy who would find a way to win given the circumstance.

Buster Douglas was better than Bowe on the night in question vs. Holyfield. Douglas was a complete fighter and talented with on glaring weakness, training with pizza and beer.

buster was amazing in the tyson fight, truely great to watch him, i really rate bowe in his prime but i think buster would of beaten many a good fighter that night

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Originally Posted by Drago

buster was amazing in the tyson fight, truely great to watch him, i really rate bowe in his prime but i think buster would of beaten many a good fighter that night

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Buster was good that night but an undertrained, worst ever version of Tyson knocked dhim out in that 8th round. Its the longest count Ive seen and if justice prevailed the fight wouldnt have gone on.

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Originally Posted by GAME

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Originally Posted by Drago

buster was amazing in the tyson fight, truely great to watch him, i really rate bowe in his prime but i think buster would of beaten many a good fighter that night

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Buster was good that night but an undertrained, worst ever version of Tyson knocked dhim out in that 8th round. Its the longest count Ive seen and if justice prevailed the fight wouldnt have gone on.

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Buster Douglas knew exactly what he was doing, and had the count of been quicker he would of got up. He was just being smart taking the extra seconds, to clear his head. He even pounded the canvas in anger, so he knew exactly where he was. And the count Mike Tyson had was no quicker either.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by GAME

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Originally Posted by Drago

buster was amazing in the tyson fight, truely great to watch him, i really rate bowe in his prime but i think buster would of beaten many a good fighter that night

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Buster was good that night but an undertrained, worst ever version of Tyson knocked dhim out in that 8th round. Its the longest count Ive seen and if justice prevailed the fight wouldnt have gone on.

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Buster Douglas knew exactly what he was doing, and had the count of been quicker he would of got up. He was just being smart taking the extra seconds, to clear his head. He even pounded the canvas in anger, so he knew exactly where he was. And the count Mike Tyson had was no quicker either.

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You may be right but I think Mike was hard done by. It doesnt matter anyway cuz Tyson lost the fight and didnt avenge it. I just wish he had a return cuz he could have done to Douglas what Evander did if he got back to his best.

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Originally Posted by GAME

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by GAME

Buster was good that night but an undertrained, worst ever version of Tyson knocked dhim out in that 8th round. Its the longest count Ive seen and if justice prevailed the fight wouldnt have gone on.

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Buster Douglas knew exactly what he was doing, and had the count of been quicker he would of got up. He was just being smart taking the extra seconds, to clear his head. He even pounded the canvas in anger, so he knew exactly where he was. And the count Mike Tyson had was no quicker either.

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You may be right but I think Mike was hard done by. It doesnt matter anyway cuz Tyson lost the fight and didnt avenge it. I just wish he had a return cuz he could have done to Douglas what Evander did if he got back to his best.

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i agree, buster was being smart taking the count, i think buster had fought his greatest fight that night & tyson would of won the return

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Originally Posted by GAME

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Originally Posted by Drago

buster was amazing in the tyson fight, truely great to watch him, i really rate bowe in his prime but i think buster would of beaten many a good fighter that night

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Buster was good that night but an undertrained, worst ever version of Tyson knocked dhim out in that 8th round. Its the longest count Ive seen and if justice prevailed the fight wouldnt have gone on.

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think the count was abt 14 seconds? wasnt jack dempsey carpenter alot longer?

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Originally Posted by Drago

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Originally Posted by GAME

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Originally Posted by Drago

buster was amazing in the tyson fight, truely great to watch him, i really rate bowe in his prime but i think buster would of beaten many a good fighter that night

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Buster was good that night but an undertrained, worst ever version of Tyson knocked dhim out in that 8th round. Its the longest count Ive seen and if justice prevailed the fight wouldnt have gone on.

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think the count was abt 14 seconds? wasnt jack dempsey carpenter alot longer?

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You mean Gene Tunney vs Jack Dempsey 2, and yes that was indeed longer. But only because Jack Dempsey didn't go to the neutral corner. And that was because the rules had not long been changed, and Jack Dempsey was used to standing over opponents, hence why he didn't go to the neutral corner against Gene Tunney.

Bowe And it's not even close. Remember Bowe as an ametuer? When he actually trained hard an followed instruction? Bowe fighting as a boxer using his jab, NOT getting dirty inside leaning on guys with his weight? He had solid skills but he was just fat and lazy. At his best, Bowe would have looked like Larry Holmes against Buster, circling him and snapping his head back with the jab.

The Douglas who beat Tyson was an inspired killing machine (his mother's death likely contributed to his inspiration) who was throwing perfect jabs, savage uppercuts, and great hooks. For that single moment in time, he was the baddest man in the solar system.

At the end of the fight, the most evil man in the solar sysyem was Don King.

a Legend vs a one match journeyman who fought against an undertrained and overconfident Tyson, Bowe all the way by a staggering k.o

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Originally Posted by holmcall

The Douglas who beat Tyson was an inspired killing machine (his mother's death likely contributed to his inspiration) who was throwing perfect jabs, savage uppercuts, and great hooks. For that single moment in time, he was the baddest man in the solar system.

At the end of the fight, the most evil man in the solar sysyem was Don King.

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busters father left him after he quit agianst tucker & i think all this plus his mothers death left him with a nothing to lose attitude!

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Drago

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Originally Posted by GAME

Buster was good that night but an undertrained, worst ever version of Tyson knocked dhim out in that 8th round. Its the longest count Ive seen and if justice prevailed the fight wouldnt have gone on.

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think the count was abt 14 seconds? wasnt jack dempsey carpenter alot longer?

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You mean Gene Tunney vs Jack Dempsey 2, and yes that was indeed longer. But only because Jack Dempsey didn't go to the neutral corner. And that was because the rules had not long been changed, and Jack Dempsey was used to standing over opponents, hence why he didn't go to the neutral corner against Gene Tunney.

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I stand corrected yeah it was tunney, buster wasnt out of it when he got put down tho he was always in control he would easy of made 10 seconds anyway

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Originally Posted by Drago

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Drago

think the count was abt 14 seconds? wasnt jack dempsey carpenter alot longer?

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You mean Gene Tunney vs Jack Dempsey 2, and yes that was indeed longer. But only because Jack Dempsey didn't go to the neutral corner. And that was because the rules had not long been changed, and Jack Dempsey was used to standing over opponents, hence why he didn't go to the neutral corner against Gene Tunney.

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I stand corrected yeah it was tunney, buster wasnt out of it when he got put down tho he was always in control he would easy of made 10 seconds anyway

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I agree Buster took advantage of the count, but could of gotten up if the count went as quickly as it should have. Well left me correct myself. Buster didn't take advantage of the count, he was in no position to know how slowly it was going and got up at 9. Still I think the Douglas of that night would have beaten Bowe at any time of Bowe's career. I never saw Bowe as all that good. I just rank him around the same level of Greg Page, another unmotivated pretender. Sorry for those who disagree with me. I value your opinions too. Just never saw the spark of greatness many others seem to see. Just my opinion and I have been wrong before.

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by Drago

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Originally Posted by ICB

You mean Gene Tunney vs Jack Dempsey 2, and yes that was indeed longer. But only because Jack Dempsey didn't go to the neutral corner. And that was because the rules had not long been changed, and Jack Dempsey was used to standing over opponents, hence why he didn't go to the neutral corner against Gene Tunney.

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I stand corrected yeah it was tunney, buster wasnt out of it when he got put down tho he was always in control he would easy of made 10 seconds anyway

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I agree Buster took advantage of the count, but could of gotten up if the count went as quickly as it should have. Well left me correct myself. Buster didn't take advantage of the count, he was in no position to know how slowly it was going and got up at 9. Still I think the Douglas of that night would have beaten Bowe at any time of Bowe's career. I never saw Bowe as all that good. I just rank him around the same level of Greg Page, another unmotivated pretender. Sorry for those who disagree with me. I value your opinions too. Just never saw the spark of greatness many others seem to see. Just my opinion and I have been wrong before.

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Great points. His issues were taining and the buffet table. He could have been one of the very best because he had great skills for a big man. He was a great inside fighter, for example. I really think the Holyfield Trilogy ruined him, as he too (and gave) tremendous punishment in all 3 bouts. A pity, really, that he never fought Lewis in the pros. The Golata beat downs simply finished him off, but he was a shell by then. He likely will end up as another boxing tragedy (maybe hhe already is).

Except for the knock down Buster pretty well dominated Tyson that night. does anybody have camera shots of the time keeper? I seem to remember seeing a quick shot of the timekeeper and the ref looking at him and i could see 3 then four fingers held up. I haven't seen the fight in years. At least you could could count from four if that shot is available to see how long the count was.

Boy I guess I'm in a real minority here. I thought for 2-3 fights Bowe was a GREAT heavy. I thought Douglas was really good that night, but Tyson was, well, Tyson ;)

I'd pick Riddick.

I go with Bowe on this one Holyfeild was a better fight then Tyson was he won big fights.

Nobody on eaarth coulda beat Douglas that night. Not even Bowe.

Susprised by this thread, I guess I am in the minority when I say Bowe takes him out. Sorry but underdog or not Douglas had physical advantages over Tyson that wouldn't be had against Bowe. That combined with the fact that Bowe was a great inside fighter for his size is enough to convince me to roll wit Big Daddy.......btw I can't stand Bowe's antics or his corner, especially that manager of his....Rock Newman?

If Tyson had done the right things leading up to that fight nobody today would even remember Buster Douglas. He had an amazing night but realistically he didn't have the tools to hang with a properly trained Tyson. I don't care how muc you miss your mom, punches still hurt. Bowe beat a young, heavily determined champ and he did it quite convincingly. Bowe all the way on this one

Bowe, (regardless of the fact that I think he's massively overrated) always had swagger and was always in fights to win them. Buster on the other hand ran hot & cold and when I say cold I mean FREEZING cold!

I think Bowe was the better all around boxer, better power puncher, and had the better arsenal of punches. Bowe ALSO had the better trainer.

Bowe, easily. Not even close.

Douglas fought an ill prepared, over confident and distracted Tyson who was absolutely awful on the night. Tyson just stood straight in front of him like a statue and Douglas hit him with pretty much every punch he threw. Apart from the knockdown in round 8, Douglas had everything his own way. I imagine most top heavyweights would have beaten Tyson that night. He really was that bad.

Bowe had to dig really deep to pull it out against Holyfield using a combination of boxing and sheer guts and determination. There is no way Buster Douglas could have beaten that Riddick Bowe.

Eddie Futch would have had a gameplan for Big Daddy to take out the Buster inside 8.

Bowe would have won.

Bowe points in a good fight, for the rematch both fighters would come in overweight and unmotivated and would fall down due to tiredness in the third round and be counted out.

Bowe by KO. Bowe was better than that Buster Douglas in every category. If prime Bowe would have fought Tyson that night, I don't think Tyson would have lasted past 6. Bowe could put the hurt on a motherfucker.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Bowe by KO. Bowe was better than that Buster Douglas in every category. If prime Bowe would have fought Tyson that night, I don't think Tyson would have lasted past 6. Bowe could put the hurt on a motherfucker.

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If Tyson landed the punches Holyfield did then Bowe was not seeing the end of the fight. Bowe was particularly vulnerable to the left hook.

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Originally Posted by Master

If Tyson landed the punches Holyfield did then Bowe was not seeing the end of the fight. Bowe was particularly vulnerable to the left hook.

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Bowe was durable as fuck. I think Prime vs Prime, Tyson wins. But the flat Tyson who fought Buster Douglas would have gotten fucked up by Bowe. But I think thats moot because Tyson would never have underestimated Bowe like he did with Buster.

Because of Bowes jab, this would be a fairly clear UD win for him.

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Because of Bowes jab, this would be a fairly clear UD win for him.

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Yes, because Tyson could not avoid a jab because he lacked any head movement at his peak. ;)

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Because of Bowes jab, this would be a fairly clear UD win for him.

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Yes, because Tyson could not avoid a jab because he lacked any head movement at his peak. ;)

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Who's talking about Tyson? Nutcase. :D

I mean Bowes Jab - as I said - against Buster Douglas.

Have you guys ever seen Bowe vs Biggs or Tubbs ? Bowe struggled badly with there jabs and outside movement. And i know Bowe wasn't in his prime vs Golota, but Golota did destroy Bowe with his jab and also Holyfield's movement in the 2nd fight troubled him even Bowe said that himself.

And Douglas that night had a terrific jab just something to think about.