Felix "Tito" Trinidad the last real dominant WW Champ...

[B]Felix "Tito" Trinidad the last real dominant WW Champ...


Before Tito we had some great champs and great matches but when the Tito era came he beat all champs and all comers. HE had incredible Power and incredible Stamina I mean every punch he threw was with conviction even his jab had power behind it for all 12 rounds.

Since Tito we haven't seen any real dominant WW to be proclaimed the man at 147lbs.

This are the actual prospects to be called the man.

Cotto : He was on his way to be the man if he had not loose to Margo (for me he cheated) but still there was P. Williams in the horizon (It would have been a great match)

Mosley: While he gave Margo the beating of his life Cotto still has a win over him convincingly for about 3 rounds in my score cards among others.

MArgo: We all know his story but still if he wouldn't been caught cheating who knows what he could have done to Shane Mosley but still he has a convincingly L against P. Williams.

P.Williams: While he was a very avoided WW he has a very convincingly L vs Quintana who was destroyed by Cotto. P. Williams re match Quintana and in a very competitive first round Williams caught Quintana and end it but in a bad night everything can happen going both ways for Quintana and P.Williams meaning fight 1 and 2.

Mayweather: Fast up and comer from a div he was the man and the undisputed champ. His first fight at 140 was Henry Bruseles (check him before and after Floyd fight in boxrec) his second fight was a very weight drain and Down hill and RIP Arturo Gatti which he KO's quite easy like a champ should do. So thinking he was the man at 140 leaving Cotto and Hatton goes to 147 to fight Sharamba Mitchel (Way past his Prime) goes and fight the Baldi a guy we all know he ain't shit and box his ass of like it was suppose to happen then fights Judah which I respect him for taking that fight and like it some here said he won but struggle to get that win and to top it off he was Knock Down legitimately but the ref did not counted. Goes and fights Oscar at 154 another fight I respect him to take and win a very close fight with a bit faded Oscar in a bore fest but it is still was a good win to rise his name more in the boxing world setting up fights with the real threads at WW which where Mosley, Cotto and Margo. While all the hype is make and we where all boxing fans sight to see Floyd vs the real top guys at WW and we where all thinking who will be next; Floyd goes and fight the 140 champ(Hatton) at 147, a weight that the 140 champ struggle with Collazo a guy Mosley toyed ala Cotto vs Gomez. But it was evident it was for $$$$ I mean who would say not to that right? maybe in his next fight. Floyd then Stops HAtton and and we boxing fans where hoping to see Floyd vs the Winner of Cotto and Mosley what he does he said **** THAT SHIT and retire his ass leaving me and all boxing fans and his fans frustrated since he talked all that shit about I will beat anybody and this was and tat way and did not walk the walk. etc got tire of typing.

Andre Berto: Good kid fast and strong but lacks of concentration and defense he had a very difficult time with Collazo and in my eyes and others he still got a lot to proved to belong to the elite.

Manny Pac:[/B Coming from an impressive win over HAtton at 140 and already had a fight vs past his prime and we can agree he was very weight drained OScar De La Hoya at 147 he now calls out Miguel Cotto at a catch weight of 145 lbs to even things up like they said but still want the hard earn and defended Tittle Cotto earned weighting having the option to weight 147 lbs (WW rules max weight) but still Cotto weighted 146 in his last fight leaving space to shed one more pound to fight PAC. Still PAc and his crew (ROach) wanted for Cotto to go as low as 143. (So why the hell you called him out?) If Pac wins over Cotto he still has to fight Mosley of Floyd without any catch weight crap if he wants to belong at the WW elite group but we all know he just wants to win the 7 weight Div belt and if he wins vs Cotto he will ask Floyd, Marquez or Mosley to again to fight him at a catch weight as well.


To stay on the topic we still haven't see a true dominant WW since Felix Trinidad. Who could of those or up and comer be the new dominant WW CHAMP that take all fighters like Tito did.

Excuse my typing errors!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Puya

[b]Felix "Tito" Trinidad the last real dominant WW Champ...


Before Tito we had some great champs and great matches but when the Tito era came he beat all champs and all comers. HE had incredible Power and incredible Stamina I mean every punch he threw was with conviction even his jab had power behind it for all 12 rounds.

Since Tito we haven't seen any real dominant WW to be proclaimed the man at 147lbs.

This are the actual prospects to be called the man.

Cotto : He was on his way to be the man if he had not loose to Margo (for me he cheated) but still there was P. Williams in the horizon (It would have been a great match)

Mosley: While he gave Margo the beating of his life Cotto still has a win over him convincingly for about 3 rounds in my score cards among others.

MArgo: We all know his story but still if he wouldn't been caught cheating who knows what he could have done to Shane Mosley but still he has a convincingly L against P. Williams.

P.Williams: While he was a very avoided WW he has a very convincingly L vs Quintana who was destroyed by Cotto. P. Williams re match Quintana and in a very competitive first round Williams caught Quintana and end it but in a bad night everything can happen going both ways for Quintana and P.Williams meaning fight 1 and 2.

Mayweather: Fast up and comer from a div he was the man and the undisputed champ. His first fight at 140 was Henry Bruseles (check him before and after Floyd fight in boxrec) his second fight was a very weight drain and Down hill and RIP Arturo Gatti which he KO's quite easy like a champ should do. So thinking he was the man at 140 leaving Cotto and Hatton goes to 147 to fight Sharamba Mitchel (Way past his Prime) goes and fight the Baldi a guy we all know he ain't shit and box his ass of like it was suppose to happen then fights Judah which I respect him for taking that fight and like it some here said he won but struggle to get that win and to top it off he was Knock Down legitimately but the ref did not counted. Goes and fights Oscar at 154 another fight I respect him to take and win a very close fight with a bit faded Oscar in a bore fest but it is still was a good win to rise his name more in the boxing world setting up fights with the real threads at WW which where Mosley, Cotto and Margo. While all the hype is make and we where all boxing fans sight to see Floyd vs the real top guys at WW and we where all thinking who will be next; Floyd goes and fight the 140 champ(Hatton) at 147, a weight that the 140 champ struggle with Collazo a guy Mosley toyed ala Cotto vs Gomez. But it was evident it was for $$$$ I mean who would say not to that right? maybe in his next fight. Floyd then Stops HAtton and and we boxing fans where hoping to see Floyd vs the Winner of Cotto and Mosley what he does he said **** THAT SHIT and retire his ass leaving me and all boxing fans and his fans frustrated since he talked all that shit about I will beat anybody and this was and tat way and did not walk the walk. etc got tire of typing.

Andre Berto: Good kid fast and strong but lacks of concentration and defense he had a very difficult time with Collazo and in my eyes and others he still got a lot to proved to belong to the elite.

Manny Pac:[/B Coming from an impressive win over HAtton at 140 and already had a fight vs past his prime and we can agree he was very weight drained OScar De La Hoya at 147 he now calls out Miguel Cotto at a catch weight of 145 lbs to even things up like they said but still want the hard earn and defended Tittle Cotto earned weighting having the option to weight 147 lbs (WW rules max weight) but still Cotto weighted 146 in his last fight leaving space to shed one more pound to fight PAC. Still PAc and his crew (ROach) wanted for Cotto to go as low as 143. (So why the hell you called him out?) If Pac wins over Cotto he still has to fight Mosley of Floyd without any catch weight crap if he wants to belong at the WW elite group but we all know he just wants to win the 7 weight Div belt and if he wins vs Cotto he will ask Floyd, Marquez or Mosley to again to fight him at a catch weight as well.


To stay on the topic we still haven't see a true dominant WW since Felix Trinidad. Who could of those or up and comer be the new dominant WW CHAMP that take all fighters like Tito did.

Excuse my typing errors!!!!!

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Tito was more well established than any of the "champs" of today at WW but he never fought Quartey and IMO didn't beat DLH, and then there was Mosley, yea he had the longest title run but to say he was dominant i'm not so sure

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Puya

[b]Felix "Tito" Trinidad the last real dominant WW Champ...

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Tito was more well established than any of the "champs" of today at WW but he never fought Quartey and IMO didn't beat DLH, and then there was Mosley, yea he had the longest title run but to say he was dominant i'm not so sure

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Agreed mate....He never fought IKE who was dangerous at that stage of his career...And the DLH fight was more DLH giving up the last 3 rds then Tito winning them....Until then Oscar had gave Tito all he could handle

Tito beat undefeated fighters in Oba Carr and Yori Boy, he also convincingly beat admittedly the old Whitaker. ODH shook the division though fighting Pernell and Ike.

ODH, Tito and Mosely never really answered who was the best @ WW. I thought Oscar beat Tito but a rematch would have been really interested. I also thought Oscar won the second fight with Shane so a third was really needed. Not sure how a Mosely v Tito fight never happened. I'd take Shane in that one. To me I put both Shane and Oscar slightly above Tito and w/o a third fight between the two I can't say who I think was the better WW. I'd say its fair to say Tito has had the most relevant reigh at WW of the last several champs. Williams could probably own the division if he wanted it but great WWs never seem to stay welters very long.

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

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Originally Posted by Rican

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

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Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best ;)

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by Rican

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

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Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best ;)

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In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by Rican

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

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Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best ;)

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Hey PR Punch... good to see you back in the forum. I 100% agree with your and Rican's points. And something Tito gets very little credit for, in my opinion...

It's easy to downplay Tito's wins over the likes of Oba Carr, Yori Boy Campas, Fernando Vargas... all undefeated at the time. Other people have beaten these guys, the detractors will claim. But how about giving Tito credit for putting the first "L" on their records? For fighting them when they were rising stars? At their most dangerous? When no one else wanted a piece of them? It's easy to say that "Oscar beat them too." Yeah... AFTER Tito had taken them apart. But some people conveniently forget that.

Yeah, Tito dominated 147. And would've dominated 154 for a long time also, but went up quickly to 160 and ran into Bernard Hopkins. He did destroy 160-pound champ William Joppy by KO before that, though.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by Rican

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

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Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best ;)

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Hey PR Punch... good to see you back in the forum. I 100% agree with your and Rican's points. And something Tito gets very little credit for, in my opinion...

It's easy to downplay Tito's wins over the likes of Oba Carr, Yori Boy Campas, Fernando Vargas... all undefeated at the time. Other people have beaten these guys, the detractors will claim. But how about giving Tito credit for putting the first "L" on their records? For fighting them when they were rising stars? At their most dangerous? When no one else wanted a piece of them? It's easy to say that "Oscar beat them too." Yeah... AFTER Tito had taken them apart. But some people conveniently forget that.

Yeah, Tito dominated 147. And would've dominated 154 for a long time also, but went up quickly to 160 and ran into Bernard Hopkins. He did destroy 160-pound champ William Joppy by KO before that, though.

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Vargas was at 154, and no one is trying to take anything away from Tito, just pointing out the fact that he was never the CLEAR CUT best at 147, DLH should of gotten the win, and Mosley and Quartey could of given him a hell of a fight where it would have been 50/50 at most, Trinidad never should have left 154, and IMO would of ended with a better career with possible fights against Forrest, Mosley, rematch with DLH, Santos, ect.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by Rican

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

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Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best ;)

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In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

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Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

Tito dominated light middle too, he beat very good champions at that weight.

only true dominant divisional champs of the last decade have been calzaghe at 168 and bhop at 160.

Mayweather hasnt fought enough at 147 yet to be classed as dominant, pac keeps moving weights, tito didnt exactly boss every fight he ever fought, klitschkos fight bums, barrera and morales fought at various weights and RJJ got itchy bum fever every time he knew he owned a division

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Originally Posted by Rican

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best ;)

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In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

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Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

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he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

Great Exciting Fighter I Agree

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Originally Posted by johnashton

Great Exciting Fighter I Agree

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Joshashton, what performance do you think was better, when he beat ricky hatton or when he beat cotto?

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Rican

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

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Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

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he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

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Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter... ;)

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Originally Posted by ryanman89

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Originally Posted by johnashton

Great Exciting Fighter I Agree

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Joshashton, what performance do you think was better, when he beat ricky hatton or when he beat cotto?

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He can't be that daft

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Rican

Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

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he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

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Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter... ;)

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De La Hoya has never been one to really run his mouth and talk crap about his opponents, Trinidad did plenty of it and the person who tries to deny it, well i have plenty cut outs of his big fights in the past, not that most of it wasn't backed up but he talked plenty shit, no way in hell was DLH gonna get KO'd by Trinidad, if anything it would have been the other way around, Oscar/Tito wasn't a close fight, DLH won the first 9 straight, and there was no knockdowns, DLH beat Whitaker in a close fight, plenty pick that as a reasonable call, i had Oscar beating Whitaker 115-113, Sturm is the only really bad decision on his record, i had Sturm winning 115-113 or even 116-112, and that was already when DLH was out of his element at 160, do i need to remind you about what happened to Trinidad after the Joppy fight?
he got KO'd by B-Hop, beat a very weak Cherriffi (spelling?), retired, came back beat a Mayorga who had never fought above 147, then got schooled by Wright, then embarrassed he retired again, only to comeback and get schooled by an old merciful Jones, he could have KO'd Trinidad at any point after the 6th, again i'm not downplaying any of Trinidad's SUCCESS but he was never a Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Jones in ANY DIVISION he fought in

After Mayorga, Tito has embarrassed himself and his legacy but he was dominate at welter and light middle.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

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Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter... ;)

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De La Hoya has never been one to really run his mouth and talk crap about his opponents, Trinidad did plenty of it and the person who tries to deny it, well i have plenty cut outs of his big fights in the past, not that most of it wasn't backed up but he talked plenty shit, no way in hell was DLH gonna get KO'd by Trinidad, if anything it would have been the other way around, Oscar/Tito wasn't a close fight, DLH won the first 9 straight, and there was no knockdowns, DLH beat Whitaker in a close fight, plenty pick that as a reasonable call, i had Oscar beating Whitaker 115-113, Sturm is the only really bad decision on his record, i had Sturm winning 115-113 or even 116-112, and that was already when DLH was out of his element at 160, do i need to remind you about what happened to Trinidad after the Joppy fight?
he got KO'd by B-Hop, beat a very weak Cherriffi (spelling?), retired, came back beat a Mayorga who had never fought above 147, then got schooled by Wright, then embarrassed he retired again, only to comeback and get schooled by an old merciful Jones, he could have KO'd Trinidad at any point after the 6th, again i'm not downplaying any of Trinidad's SUCCESS but he was never a Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Jones in ANY DIVISION he fought in

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I have followed Trinidad's career from thge beginning and I do not recall him bad mouthing anyone. I always remember Trinidad expressing the utmost confidence in his abilities rather than badmouthinmg or insulting his opponents. Perhaps you can get some direct quotes for me. I know that things got pretty heated during the promotions between the noted loudmouths Vargas, mayorga, and Hopkins, but it seemed like those three were the agressors.

So if Trinidad wasn't the most dominant during his reign at 147, a good question is who, in your opinion was? And what do you consider dominant?

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Originally Posted by Rican

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter... ;)

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De La Hoya has never been one to really run his mouth and talk crap about his opponents, Trinidad did plenty of it and the person who tries to deny it, well i have plenty cut outs of his big fights in the past, not that most of it wasn't backed up but he talked plenty shit, no way in hell was DLH gonna get KO'd by Trinidad, if anything it would have been the other way around, Oscar/Tito wasn't a close fight, DLH won the first 9 straight, and there was no knockdowns, DLH beat Whitaker in a close fight, plenty pick that as a reasonable call, i had Oscar beating Whitaker 115-113, Sturm is the only really bad decision on his record, i had Sturm winning 115-113 or even 116-112, and that was already when DLH was out of his element at 160, do i need to remind you about what happened to Trinidad after the Joppy fight?
he got KO'd by B-Hop, beat a very weak Cherriffi (spelling?), retired, came back beat a Mayorga who had never fought above 147, then got schooled by Wright, then embarrassed he retired again, only to comeback and get schooled by an old merciful Jones, he could have KO'd Trinidad at any point after the 6th, again i'm not downplaying any of Trinidad's SUCCESS but he was never a Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Jones in ANY DIVISION he fought in

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I have followed Trinidad's career from thge beginning and I do not recall him bad mouthing anyone. I always remember Trinidad expressing the utmost confidence in his abilities rather than badmouthinmg or insulting his opponents. Perhaps you can get some direct quotes for me. I know that things got pretty heated during the promotions between the noted loudmouths Vargas, mayorga, and Hopkins, but it seemed like those three were the agressors.

So if Trinidad wasn't the most dominant during his reign at 147, a good question is who, in your opinion was? And what do you consider dominant?

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i don't think there was ANY dominant fighter at 147 during Trinidad's name, i consider a fight who basically cleans out the division, and pretty much effortlessly, and is already the undoubtly favorite to win is basically the most dominant fighter in the division, examples being Jones Jr 175, Calzaghe 168, Hopkins 160, Wright 154, and so on, Trinidad IMO didn't beat DLH and never fought Mosley or Quartey, leaving the division wide open for the taken, do i think DLH was dominant at 147, no, like i said no one really dominated the division

The only proof you should need to see Tito's dominance is how ODH fought the last 3 rounds against him although Tito's career is tainted for me because of the BHOP handwrap issue

I don't know how the last three rounds out weigh the utter boxing lesson Tito got for the first 9. I don't know anyone who discounts Trinidad as a great fighter and champion and I think it is safe to say he had the most meaningful reign at WW of his peers but I think it can also safely be said that by never fighting Mosely and a dubious win over Oscar leaves us without a clearly defined greatest WW of that era.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

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Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter... ;)

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De La Hoya has never been one to really run his mouth and talk crap about his opponents, Trinidad did plenty of it and the person who tries to deny it, well i have plenty cut outs of his big fights in the past, not that most of it wasn't backed up but he talked plenty shit, no way in hell was DLH gonna get KO'd by Trinidad, if anything it would have been the other way around, Oscar/Tito wasn't a close fight, DLH won the first 9 straight, and there was no knockdowns, DLH beat Whitaker in a close fight, plenty pick that as a reasonable call, i had Oscar beating Whitaker 115-113, Sturm is the only really bad decision on his record, i had Sturm winning 115-113 or even 116-112, and that was already when DLH was out of his element at 160, do i need to remind you about what happened to Trinidad after the Joppy fight?
he got KO'd by B-Hop, beat a very weak Cherriffi (spelling?), retired, came back beat a Mayorga who had never fought above 147, then got schooled by Wright, then embarrassed he retired again, only to comeback and get schooled by an old merciful Jones, he could have KO'd Trinidad at any point after the 6th, again i'm not downplaying any of Trinidad's SUCCESS but he was never a Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Jones in ANY DIVISION he fought in

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Now I can understand better; we are just talking about 2 different Trinidad because I don't recall that trash talking that you are mentioning here in his career. I believe me. I followed Felix "Tito" Trinidad career (the one from Puerto Rico). One thing is confidence and stating that he was going to win (what my Trinidad did) vs the talk crap that the Trinidad you are refering to did. I don't think you got my point, when I said that De La Hoya needed less mouth and more heart, I was refering to the fact that De La Hoya all the time said that he wanted the rematch, but never stepped in the ring with Tito again. I was not saying that De La Hoya was insulting anyone. If there are no possibility that Tito could KO him, just asked yourself why De La Hoya decided to start running a marathon instead of stopping and KO Tito :confused:

We can certainly differ in opinions of who won, Tito or De La Hoya. This is why this forum is so intersting where we can share different opinions and point of views. But if you think that De La Hoya won all first 9 rounds and I really can question this judgment as being partial. So it really does not mean anything to me.

And, no I had not forgot what happened after Joppys fight, that is why I am saying that from 1999 to 2001 Tito fought 5 world champs and beat 4 of them. Just tell how many boxers can say this? Just a few, right? But I can also remember what happened during Joppy's fight and all the previous fights.

Being an undefeated champ for 6 year before unifying at 147, then quickly move to the upper divisions to unify titles at 154 beating to undefeated champs, and crush a solid champ at 160 before being stopped... and this is non a dominating fighter... what a contradiction. But as I said we can have different opinions and this is why this is so interesting.

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter... ;)

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De La Hoya has never been one to really run his mouth and talk crap about his opponents, Trinidad did plenty of it and the person who tries to deny it, well i have plenty cut outs of his big fights in the past, not that most of it wasn't backed up but he talked plenty shit, no way in hell was DLH gonna get KO'd by Trinidad, if anything it would have been the other way around, Oscar/Tito wasn't a close fight, DLH won the first 9 straight, and there was no knockdowns, DLH beat Whitaker in a close fight, plenty pick that as a reasonable call, i had Oscar beating Whitaker 115-113, Sturm is the only really bad decision on his record, i had Sturm winning 115-113 or even 116-112, and that was already when DLH was out of his element at 160, do i need to remind you about what happened to Trinidad after the Joppy fight?
he got KO'd by B-Hop, beat a very weak Cherriffi (spelling?), retired, came back beat a Mayorga who had never fought above 147, then got schooled by Wright, then embarrassed he retired again, only to comeback and get schooled by an old merciful Jones, he could have KO'd Trinidad at any point after the 6th, again i'm not downplaying any of Trinidad's SUCCESS but he was never a Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Jones in ANY DIVISION he fought in

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Now I can understand better; we are just talking about 2 different Trinidad because I don't recall that trash talking that you are mentioning here in his career. I believe me. I followed Felix "Tito" Trinidad career (the one from Puerto Rico). One thing is confidence and stating that he was going to win (what my Trinidad did) vs the talk crap that the Trinidad you are refering to did. I don't think you got my point, when I said that De La Hoya needed less mouth and more heart, I was refering to the fact that De La Hoya all the time said that he wanted the rematch, but never stepped in the ring with Tito again. I was not saying that De La Hoya was insulting anyone. If there are no possibility that Tito could KO him, just asked yourself why De La Hoya decided to start running a marathon instead of stopping and KO Tito :confused:

We can certainly differ in opinions of who won, Tito or De La Hoya. This is why this forum is so intersting where we can share different opinions and point of views. But if you think that De La Hoya won all first 9 rounds and I really can question this judgment as being partial. So it really does not mean anything to me.

And, no I had not forgot what happened after Joppys fight, that is why I am saying that from 1999 to 2001 Tito fought 5 world champs and beat 4 of them. Just tell how many boxers can say this? Just a few, right? But I can also remember what happened during Joppy's fight and all the previous fights.

Being an undefeated champ for 6 year before unifying at 147, then quickly move to the upper divisions to unify titles at 154 beating to undefeated champs, and crush a solid champ at 160 before being stopped... and this is non a dominating fighter... what a contradiction. But as I said we can have different opinions and this is why this is so interesting.

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DLH made if very public that he wanted a rematch and Trindad's father (cause after he lost to Hopkins, Felix Sr is the only one who would give out statements) made it clear that Tito wanted no rematch, only time Trinidad said he'd give the rematch was if it was at 168 which is pretty ludicrous if you ask me, well and on the flip side, Trinidad's heart could be questioned using your logic, he always mouthed off on how he wanted a Hopkins rematch, yet when Hopkins openly offered it to him, Trinidad rejected it, Tito was a great champ, but there's a clear difference from being confident and being cocky, and for one to yell out "AND NEW IBF CHAMPION" before his fight against Vargas, show's he was plenty of cocky, DLH didn't lose more than ONE round in the first 9 against Trinidad, and that's not being biased, it's fact, stating that Trinidad should of got the W just cause DLH stayed on his bicycle for the last 3 rnds, even though Tito lost at LEAST 8 of the first 9 rounds, and there being no KD's or anything remotely close to one is pure bullshit, DLH gave Trinidad a boxing lesson, then committed the mistake of not fighting for the last 3 rounds, DLH threw away the fight more than Trinidad won it, y bueno yo soy de Aguadilla/Isabela Puerto Rico, solo que no dejo el dicho de yo ser Boricua dejarme ciego a la verdad, y la verdad es que no hubo un #1 claro en los 147 libras en ese tiempo, DLH and Trinidad IMO were dead even, and their fight basically didn't answer anything cause of the bad decision, and even if the right decision would have been made i wouldn't say that DLH was a dominant champ at 147

No Trinidad wasn't the last real dominant WW champion, Oscar made him look like an amateur and got robbed in the process.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

De La Hoya has never been one to really run his mouth and talk crap about his opponents, Trinidad did plenty of it and the person who tries to deny it, well i have plenty cut outs of his big fights in the past, not that most of it wasn't backed up but he talked plenty shit, no way in hell was DLH gonna get KO'd by Trinidad, if anything it would have been the other way around, Oscar/Tito wasn't a close fight, DLH won the first 9 straight, and there was no knockdowns, DLH beat Whitaker in a close fight, plenty pick that as a reasonable call, i had Oscar beating Whitaker 115-113, Sturm is the only really bad decision on his record, i had Sturm winning 115-113 or even 116-112, and that was already when DLH was out of his element at 160, do i need to remind you about what happened to Trinidad after the Joppy fight?
he got KO'd by B-Hop, beat a very weak Cherriffi (spelling?), retired, came back beat a Mayorga who had never fought above 147, then got schooled by Wright, then embarrassed he retired again, only to comeback and get schooled by an old merciful Jones, he could have KO'd Trinidad at any point after the 6th, again i'm not downplaying any of Trinidad's SUCCESS but he was never a Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Jones in ANY DIVISION he fought in

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Now I can understand better; we are just talking about 2 different Trinidad because I don't recall that trash talking that you are mentioning here in his career. I believe me. I followed Felix "Tito" Trinidad career (the one from Puerto Rico). One thing is confidence and stating that he was going to win (what my Trinidad did) vs the talk crap that the Trinidad you are refering to did. I don't think you got my point, when I said that De La Hoya needed less mouth and more heart, I was refering to the fact that De La Hoya all the time said that he wanted the rematch, but never stepped in the ring with Tito again. I was not saying that De La Hoya was insulting anyone. If there are no possibility that Tito could KO him, just asked yourself why De La Hoya decided to start running a marathon instead of stopping and KO Tito :confused:

We can certainly differ in opinions of who won, Tito or De La Hoya. This is why this forum is so intersting where we can share different opinions and point of views. But if you think that De La Hoya won all first 9 rounds and I really can question this judgment as being partial. So it really does not mean anything to me.

And, no I had not forgot what happened after Joppys fight, that is why I am saying that from 1999 to 2001 Tito fought 5 world champs and beat 4 of them. Just tell how many boxers can say this? Just a few, right? But I can also remember what happened during Joppy's fight and all the previous fights.

Being an undefeated champ for 6 year before unifying at 147, then quickly move to the upper divisions to unify titles at 154 beating to undefeated champs, and crush a solid champ at 160 before being stopped... and this is non a dominating fighter... what a contradiction. But as I said we can have different opinions and this is why this is so interesting.

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DLH made if very public that he wanted a rematch and Trindad's father (cause after he lost to Hopkins, Felix Sr is the only one who would give out statements) made it clear that Tito wanted no rematch, only time Trinidad said he'd give the rematch was if it was at 168 which is pretty ludicrous if you ask me, well and on the flip side, Trinidad's heart could be questioned using your logic, he always mouthed off on how he wanted a Hopkins rematch, yet when Hopkins openly offered it to him, Trinidad rejected it, Tito was a great champ, but there's a clear difference from being confident and being cocky, and for one to yell out "AND NEW IBF CHAMPION" before his fight against Vargas, show's he was plenty of cocky, DLH didn't lose more than ONE round in the first 9 against Trinidad, and that's not being biased, it's fact, stating that Trinidad should of got the W just cause DLH stayed on his bicycle for the last 3 rnds, even though Tito lost at LEAST 8 of the first 9 rounds, and there being no KD's or anything remotely close to one is pure bullshit, DLH gave Trinidad a boxing lesson, then committed the mistake of not fighting for the last 3 rounds, DLH threw away the fight more than Trinidad won it, y bueno yo soy de Aguadilla/Isabela Puerto Rico, solo que no dejo el dicho de yo ser Boricua dejarme ciego a la verdad, y la verdad es que no hubo un #1 claro en los 147 libras en ese tiempo, DLH and Trinidad IMO were dead even, and their fight basically didn't answer anything cause of the bad decision, and even if the right decision would have been made i wouldn't say that DLH was a dominant champ at 147

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Mi pana, Aguadilla e Isabela son dos pueblos distintos. There were talking about a rematch before Trinidad fought at 160. I don't know why we are saying that Trinindad wanted the fight only at 168. This could be after his last come back where Trinidad Sr. did not want Tito to fight at 160 or intermediate weights between 160 and 154, and this is where I can agree with you, I feel that Tito's father did more bad than good in the last stage of his career. However, if you had follow this saga, do you remember when De La Hoya said that he could fight Tito at 160 weight even if he had to put rocks on his pockets to make the weight??? This was when Tito was at 160, but it seems that Sturm cleared De La Hoya's head. The rematch talking started way before Tito was at 168 and there was never an agreement. De La Hoya said that in the rematch that never happened he was going to fight as a pure Mexican Macho. This is what I criticize of him because he had the chance to fight and KO Tito, if he was so confortable in that fight based on what you are saying; why Chicken De La Hoya "the macho" did not stop and fight to KO Trinidad??

At least this time you accepted that Tito at least won one round between 1 and 9, watch again and you may find some others. In some rounds Tito was chasing De La Hoya for 2.5 minites and then the last couple of seconds De La Hoya threw some combos and of course he has quick hands and that can impress, but that is why there are professional judges. Y mi pana, no es ser ciego. Es claro que Tito fue dominado por Hopkins y Winky, y aunque tuvo un bien comienzo con con RJJ, que espero hayas visto los primeros 6 rounds, la fortaleza de Jones se impuso cundo lastimó a Tito. He ganado muchas veces apostando contra el boxeador boricua, asi que se dejar el corazón al lado cuando hay que hacerlo.

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican Punch

Now I can understand better; we are just talking about 2 different Trinidad because I don't recall that trash talking that you are mentioning here in his career. I believe me. I followed Felix "Tito" Trinidad career (the one from Puerto Rico). One thing is confidence and stating that he was going to win (what my Trinidad did) vs the talk crap that the Trinidad you are refering to did. I don't think you got my point, when I said that De La Hoya needed less mouth and more heart, I was refering to the fact that De La Hoya all the time said that he wanted the rematch, but never stepped in the ring with Tito again. I was not saying that De La Hoya was insulting anyone. If there are no possibility that Tito could KO him, just asked yourself why De La Hoya decided to start running a marathon instead of stopping and KO Tito :confused:

We can certainly differ in opinions of who won, Tito or De La Hoya. This is why this forum is so intersting where we can share different opinions and point of views. But if you think that De La Hoya won all first 9 rounds and I really can question this judgment as being partial. So it really does not mean anything to me.

And, no I had not forgot what happened after Joppys fight, that is why I am saying that from 1999 to 2001 Tito fought 5 world champs and beat 4 of them. Just tell how many boxers can say this? Just a few, right? But I can also remember what happened during Joppy's fight and all the previous fights.

Being an undefeated champ for 6 year before unifying at 147, then quickly move to the upper divisions to unify titles at 154 beating to undefeated champs, and crush a solid champ at 160 before being stopped... and this is non a dominating fighter... what a contradiction. But as I said we can have different opinions and this is why this is so interesting.

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DLH made if very public that he wanted a rematch and Trindad's father (cause after he lost to Hopkins, Felix Sr is the only one who would give out statements) made it clear that Tito wanted no rematch, only time Trinidad said he'd give the rematch was if it was at 168 which is pretty ludicrous if you ask me, well and on the flip side, Trinidad's heart could be questioned using your logic, he always mouthed off on how he wanted a Hopkins rematch, yet when Hopkins openly offered it to him, Trinidad rejected it, Tito was a great champ, but there's a clear difference from being confident and being cocky, and for one to yell out "AND NEW IBF CHAMPION" before his fight against Vargas, show's he was plenty of cocky, DLH didn't lose more than ONE round in the first 9 against Trinidad, and that's not being biased, it's fact, stating that Trinidad should of got the W just cause DLH stayed on his bicycle for the last 3 rnds, even though Tito lost at LEAST 8 of the first 9 rounds, and there being no KD's or anything remotely close to one is pure bullshit, DLH gave Trinidad a boxing lesson, then committed the mistake of not fighting for the last 3 rounds, DLH threw away the fight more than Trinidad won it, y bueno yo soy de Aguadilla/Isabela Puerto Rico, solo que no dejo el dicho de yo ser Boricua dejarme ciego a la verdad, y la verdad es que no hubo un #1 claro en los 147 libras en ese tiempo, DLH and Trinidad IMO were dead even, and their fight basically didn't answer anything cause of the bad decision, and even if the right decision would have been made i wouldn't say that DLH was a dominant champ at 147

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Mi pana, Aguadilla e Isabela son dos pueblos distintos. There were talking about a rematch before Trinidad fought at 160. I don't know why we are saying that Trinindad wanted the fight only at 168. This could be after his last come back where Trinidad Sr. did not want Tito to fight at 160 or intermediate weights between 160 and 154, and this is where I can agree with you, I feel that Tito's father did more bad than good in the last stage of his career. However, if you had follow this saga, do you remember when De La Hoya said that he could fight Tito at 160 weight even if he had to put rocks on his pockets to make the weight??? This was when Tito was at 160, but it seems that Sturm cleared De La Hoya's head. The rematch talking started way before Tito was at 168 and there was never an agreement. De La Hoya said that in the rematch that never happened he was going to fight as a pure Mexican Macho. This is what I criticize of him because he had the chance to fight and KO Tito, if he was so confortable in that fight based on what you are saying; why Chicken De La Hoya "the macho" did not stop and fight to KO Trinidad??

At least this time you accepted that Tito at least won one round between 1 and 9, watch again and you may find some others. In some rounds Tito was chasing De La Hoya for 2.5 minites and then the last couple of seconds De La Hoya threw some combos and of course he has quick hands and that can impress, but that is why there are professional judges. Y mi pana, no es ser ciego. Es claro que Tito fue dominado por Hopkins y Winky, y aunque tuvo un bien comienzo con con RJJ, que espero hayas visto los primeros 6 rounds, la fortaleza de Jones se impuso cundo lastimó a Tito. He ganado muchas veces apostando contra el boxeador boricua, asi que se dejar el corazón al lado cuando hay que hacerlo.

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Many of those early rounds were even until de la Hoya would flurry with his pitty pat combinations during the last ten seconds of each round. Tito was such a dominant welterweight that he made Oscar a "chicken," which he was never known as before the Trinidad fight. Also, I remember the main reason the rematch with Oscar did not occur was because as always, de la Hoya wanted to control everything, especially the weight. Tito wanted the fight at 154 and Oscar was asking for a catch weight of 151. Tito, Papa, and Don King didn't need Oscar to make money, as they proved.

Tito lost to DLH. Everybody knows that.