Who would come out on top in this fantasy SMW super tournament. We are taking each fighter to be at their peak.
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Who would come out on top in this fantasy SMW super tournament. We are taking each fighter to be at their peak.
Just to repeat, All fighters are at their absolute peak in this poll. Hopkins stepped up for the tourny.
If all are "prime" then Jones beats all.
I went for Calzaghe myself. I also disagree with most as i think his peak was prior to his win over Lacy, but thats another matter.
I'll go with Calzaghe, man didn't know how to lose.
B Hop would claim he won though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
:) touche Bilbo.
Well since you put at their peak then Roy would have won hands down. Him and Calzaghe would have probably been the final with a bit of controversy along the way.
The Roy Jones/ Bernard Hopkins that Decked Calzaghe in the 1st round of their fight would of embarrassed Calzaghe.
Roy Jones in his prime would have lost less than 5 cumulated rounds in the entire tournament.
BHop would be best equipped to win in a tournament format because of his safe fighting style and ability to control fights. Jones will probably be the popular choice for this but in a 6 man tournament his chin would get craccked by BHop or someone else. Seeing that BHop should've beaten Calzaghe @ 43 he would've disposed of him. I don't thnk MCLellan, Benn or Eubank have much of a chance against the big 3 but any of them could catch Roy.
Roy Jones Jr. I only needed like half a second to be sure. What a turney that would be, at least we can dream about it :cool:
Roy Jones i voted, although a prime Calzaghe had true KO power prior to hand problems to trouble them all and would be a very close second IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
Do you really think Calzaghe had real ko power ever?? I dont it was better when he was younger but he has never had ko power imo.
I'd say Calzaghe had knockout power. He lost some after about 25-30 fights, then it was all gone by the time he fought ashira and Salem i would say. Some will say his knockout ratio went down due to better quality opponents but this doesn't explain it all. You watch how he threw punches from 1993-2000, it bears no resemblence to how he threw for his last 7-8 fights. It the beginning of his career he never slapped, by the mid point of his career he slapped too much, and by the end they were almost all slaps. He also used to twist his body violently when throwing a hook, but by the end they were purely arm punches. Of course many fighters suffer hand problems, but few could have had it as bad as Calzaghe. In one period he went 18 months (3 fights in that time) without being able to spar a single round. Now imagine you hear about an up coming fight where one of the fighters hasnt been able to spar a single round, who would your money be on? Yet Calzaghe won time after time like this. Anyway, i went off track, the point is...he did have powerQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
Do you really think Calzaghe had real ko power ever?? I dont it was better when he was younger but he has never had ko power imo.
Your presumption here is that an ageing Hopkins almost beat a PEAK Calzaghe. This is wrong. Calzaghe was some way past his peak also. Plus it was a poor performance by Calzaghe even by the standards of being past his peak. In reality a past-his-peak Calzaghe narrowly beat a past-his-peak Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth
I Think Its A Fantastic Idea How Did They Get The 6 To Agree Terms
It wasn't a peak calzaghe it was a bit over the hill Calzaghe versus awhile over the hill Hopkins.
Jones could probably have beaten more than 1 of these guys in a night , if they were all in their primes.
Well Roy Jones was near his best at SMW and that means he would have schooled all the other names above!
RJJ would school all those guys
Skel, i really think he did, maybe not huge but he sure had enough. I feel kind of sorry for him in a way because as he came into more prominence around the world he'd already had hand problems and had to rethink the approach, and from what is probably common knowledge did little sparring atall also to compensate for bad hands.... Guess its an IF thing, if he didn't hurt his hands he would have still been knocking them out rather than just overwhelming.....Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89I'd say Calzaghe had knockout power. He lost some after about 25-30 fights, then it was all gone by the time he fought ashira and Salem i would say. Some will say his knockout ratio went down due to better quality opponents but this doesn't explain it all. You watch how he threw punches from 1993-2000, it bears no resemblence to how he threw for his last 7-8 fights. It the beginning of his career he never slapped, by the mid point of his career he slapped too much, and by the end they were almost all slaps. He also used to twist his body violently when throwing a hook, but by the end they were purely arm punches. Of course many fighters suffer hand problems, but few could have had it as bad as Calzaghe. In one period he went 18 months (3 fights in that time) without being able to spar a single round. Now imagine you hear about an up coming fight where one of the fighters hasnt been able to spar a single round, who would your money be on? Yet Calzaghe won time after time like this. Anyway, i went off track, the point is...he did have powerQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
Do you really think Calzaghe had real ko power ever?? I dont it was better when he was younger but he has never had ko power imo.
Benn would have won easily.
He already beat G-Man. 3 pts.
Drew with Eubank (was unlucky with the draw). 1 pt (should be 2).
No way in hell Roys chin would have stayed intact. 3 points.
Hopkins ugly messy style wouldn't have worked against Benn. In fact Hopkins would have faked injury to quit. 3 points.
Calzaghe's macho streak would have let him down. Toe to toe with Benn there's only one outcome - Calzaghe sparked out. 3 pts.
That's a whopping 13 pts for Benn. None of the others would get close to that number. Fact.
I agree about the feeling a bit sorry for him bit. I fear he is destined to be remembered as a pit-pat puncher. But this was not the case for the majority of his career. I hope that over time people look at his whole career in its entirety, at the moment it sometimes seems people think his career started with Lacy. I don't think he was ever a one punch KO man, but as has been said he certainly had enough power, he disposed of some sturdy opponents. Also he knocked down Eubank in first 15 seconds - Eubank has said he has really been hit as hard, he also has said that as he picked himself up he said to himself something like 'i'm in trouble here, just be there at the end, go through hell to get there, but just be there at the end'. BrilliantQuote:
Originally Posted by themacmagicianSkel, i really think he did, maybe not huge but he sure had enough. I feel kind of sorry for him in a way because as he came into more prominence around the world he'd already had hand problems and had to rethink the approach, and from what is probably common knowledge did little sparring atall also to compensate for bad hands.... Guess its an IF thing, if he didn't hurt his hands he would have still been knocking them out rather than just overwhelming.....Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89I'd say Calzaghe had knockout power. He lost some after about 25-30 fights, then it was all gone by the time he fought ashira and Salem i would say. Some will say his knockout ratio went down due to better quality opponents but this doesn't explain it all. You watch how he threw punches from 1993-2000, it bears no resemblence to how he threw for his last 7-8 fights. It the beginning of his career he never slapped, by the mid point of his career he slapped too much, and by the end they were almost all slaps. He also used to twist his body violently when throwing a hook, but by the end they were purely arm punches. Of course many fighters suffer hand problems, but few could have had it as bad as Calzaghe. In one period he went 18 months (3 fights in that time) without being able to spar a single round. Now imagine you hear about an up coming fight where one of the fighters hasnt been able to spar a single round, who would your money be on? Yet Calzaghe won time after time like this. Anyway, i went off track, the point is...he did have powerQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
'I have never been knocked down in the first round before Joe hit me with a powerful left hand punch, and within half a minute i was having to pick myself up and deal with the realisation that i was in for a long night. That punch really hurt and thereafter it was a tough fight. We battled eachother in the trenches. He has been a magnificent boxer for many, many years. I'm particually glad about this because it means that i was beaten on that night by no ordinary fighter, no ordinary Joe, but by a man of real class' - Chris Eubank
Even though Calzaghe was quite boring I would put him to win. He may get knocked down but that seems to spring him into action. In the Hopkins fight Calzaghe was loosing to hopkins great tactics in the first three rounds but then he addapted to his style.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89Your presumption here is that an ageing Hopkins almost beat a PEAK Calzaghe. This is wrong. Calzaghe was some way past his peak also. Plus it was a poor performance by Calzaghe even by the standards of being past his peak. In reality a past-his-peak Calzaghe narrowly beat a past-his-peak Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth
Being able to adapt along with his amazing work rate/endurance and being able to take a punch. Hes a very difficult fighter to defeat. It must be quite disheartening to fight Calzaghe.
I think James Toney (had he been included in this instead of G-Man) was the perfect guy to beat Nigel Benn, although it's not like Roy would have had many problems with him....Benn was dreadfully overratedQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Your spot on mate, i really hope people look back a bit more too..... Kessler is looked upon as the best SMW around at the moment, and Joe C eased home in the end to be honest and gave him a boxing lesson.... Add some good knockout power to those skills and thats what you had before the bad hands started.....Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89I agree about the feeling a bit sorry for him bit. I fear he is destined to be remembered as a pit-pat puncher. But this was not the case for the majority of his career. I hope that over time people look at his whole career in its entirety, at the moment it sometimes seems people think his career started with Lacy. I don't think he was ever a one punch KO man, but as has been said he certainly had enough power, he disposed of some sturdy opponents. Also he knocked down Eubank in first 15 seconds - Eubank has said he has really been hit as hard, he also has said that as he picked himself up he said to himself something like 'i'm in trouble here, just be there at the end, go through hell to get there, but just be there at the end'. BrilliantQuote:
Originally Posted by themacmagicianSkel, i really think he did, maybe not huge but he sure had enough. I feel kind of sorry for him in a way because as he came into more prominence around the world he'd already had hand problems and had to rethink the approach, and from what is probably common knowledge did little sparring atall also to compensate for bad hands.... Guess its an IF thing, if he didn't hurt his hands he would have still been knocking them out rather than just overwhelming.....Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
In his Prime Roy wouldn't have had a problem with any of those guys.
I hate to break it to you Calzaghe fans but during his prime Calzaghe #1 never left his weight class #2 never went to another country to fight a big fight....those are the things RJJ and Hopkins catch shit over and he did BOTH of them. To me Calzaghe is not much better than Svenn Ottke, in terms of how he handled his career of course and not how he fought. Calzaghe was a very solid capable fighter, I just don't think it's fair to compare him to top teir fighters when he rarely set foot in the ring with a dangerous fighter....compared to his record RJJ's is AMAZING.
Benn and Toney have three common opponents. All three Benn beat first, naturally ruining them, and more impressively.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleI think James Toney (had he been included in this instead of G-Man) was the perfect guy to beat Nigel Benn, although it's not like Roy would have had many problems with him....Benn was dreadfully overratedQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
1. Barkley = Benn smashed to bits in 1. Toney won in 10.
2. DeWitt = Benn smashed to bits in 8, sending him into retirement. The shot DeWitt quit on his stool in 6 against Toney.
3. Sanderline Williams = Benn easily won on PTS (SD was because of a corrupt American judge). Toney DREW before getting a win.
CLEARLY Benn is the far superior fighter on form. Fact.
So if Benn is "dreadfully overrated" what does that make Toney?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89Your presumption here is that an ageing Hopkins almost beat a PEAK Calzaghe. This is wrong. Calzaghe was some way past his peak also. Plus it was a poor performance by Calzaghe even by the standards of being past his peak. In reality a past-his-peak Calzaghe narrowly beat a past-his-peak Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth
So basically what you are saying is a both feet in the grave Calzaghe beat a one foot in the grave Hopkins?
People say Roy was over the hill when he fought Calzaghe but he is only 3 years older than him. If Jones was over the hill when they are so close in age surely Calzaghe was over the hill too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Fenster, common opponents are one thing the style matchup between Benn and Toney is quite another. Toney would pick him apart.
Snakefist, Joe hasn't had to drop 20 pounds of muscle recently and that's what screwed RJJ up so badly. When Roy left 175 nobody could touch him...Calzaghe only recently left 168 and he hasn't moved back down to 168 either.
That's just fantasy though. There is no possible way you will ever know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The form is where the facts are. The form book points to Benn. Fact.
;)
Moving down weight classes can give you more of an advantage than moving up. It depends on the natural size of a person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
What weight devision was Roy Jones in origonally. If he is better at heavyweight then I must admit I would like to see him fight the Klitchko,s.
With good training up to the fight I would give him a better chance than any of the heavyweights.
Lord I'm so sick of Roy Joke JR. He's made a career of running from tough fights.
People like to think that, but I don't think it's the case. RJJ had the opportunity to have some huge fights, the other fighters ran away from him as well and it's not as if he never fought anyone good at all: Bernad Hopkins, James Toney, Virgil Hill, Julio Cesar Gonzales, Montell Griffin, Mike McCallum, Thulani Malinga....Roy had some very good fights vs solid competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
The ones he missed out on were: Dariusz Michalczweski, Svenn Ottke, Vassiliy Jirov, Bernard Hopkins II, James Toney II, Joe Calzaghe in their primes, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Steve Collins, Gerald McClellan....but hell I don't see him having much trouble with any of those guys
It can be better in certain occasions to drop weight, but RJJ had to drop MUSCLE and 20 pounds of it. He never weighed in at the heavyweight minimum, he weighed 193 for the fight with John Ruiz, it would have made sense for him to fight at cruiser instead of 175.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakefist Ar Fu
Roy fighting the Klitschko's would be murder...say what you will about Roy's skill and all, but Bob Foster a GREAT light heavyweight fought a couple fights vs the best heavyweights and he got sparked out big time! The same would have happened to Roy.
Spot on Lyle. Anyone who thinks Benn would have a chance vs a prime RJJ is just plain on drugs. I watched Benn get whupped off Watson who was good but never Roys level as we saw when he got demolished off McCallum. And forget the draw with Eubank, Benn got shown in the first fight that he was not on Eubanks level, by the rematch Eubank was on the slope especially mentally because of what he had done to Watson. Then there is Benn's common opponent with Jones, Malinga! Well I don't think we need to say anymore Jones Schooled him and KO'd him Benn struggled through a decision and then lost to him. As for Calzaghe an old past it has been Jones floored him and then only got beat so comfortably due to the cut above his eye totally blinding him on one side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Jones was on a totally different level, especially to Benn!
Exactly bud, and on the point I made with James Toney...Toney has one of the best chins/defenses in boxing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGLXZJo8p4Y
Agree totally with your points on Toney. He should have been in the voting for this little discussion. His "come from behind" (although I thought it was even when he KO'd him) win over Nunn was a special fight for me. I was a young boy watching boxing with my Dad and I just wanted to see more and more of this guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
As for his chin and defense, If anyone has played the new fight night game with Ali, Teddy Atlas says something along the lines of "Ali was really hard to hit due to his reflex's and speed and then when someone did eventually get through he just stood there and took it because of his great chin" well that to me sums up James Toney, he is a defensive master and has a granite chin behind it, if it wasn't for his drug cheating I would get on about him a lot more on here but he really let everyone down when he started using steroids.
A fight I would have loved to have seen him in though was against B-Hop, it may not have had any interest from Joe public, but for the boxing purists it would have been a very meaningful and hard to predict fight, certainly for me.