:o
Stopped by a TKO in the 3rd
Reading here, seems like Arum's dirty hands were doing all they could to ensure that Valdez didn't get credited with the win
Valdez Survives Knockdown, Controversy: Upsets Montiel - Boxing News
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:o
Stopped by a TKO in the 3rd
Reading here, seems like Arum's dirty hands were doing all they could to ensure that Valdez didn't get credited with the win
Valdez Survives Knockdown, Controversy: Upsets Montiel - Boxing News
Have to see the fight.Caught the very end with Valdez being dropped,Montiel cut....and initial NC ruling,then some strange geezer took the microphone
that article seems oneway .
Looked to me like Montiel got laced. His eye was a mess. No doubt he couldn't see. Pretty much ended the fight. Nice gift from God Valdez got. He was getting smashed in the beginning. His success came after Montiel's eye became a problem
Montiel will win the rematch because there almost surely will be one. It was looking like he was much better and will get the ko until the cut. He couldnt see well , got hurt in round two. It was one of the wierd losses where the guy who loses is the better fighter and would win prob on 95 out of 100 occasions
Could not agree more, surely we must have a rematch. Montiel would tko him if the cut would of not happend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I agree Montiel would have KO'd Valdez without the injury, but I'm not sure how likely a rematch will be... Montiel's gonna need time to heal, the bout was at Jr. Bantam so his trinket was safe, plus I think he'll be looking for bigger paydays once he's ready to go again! But it could be a good return fight for Fernando before stepping up with the added incentive of revenge
from the sound of it they're still trying to screw Valdez, its been ruled a technical draw again. I never liked Montiel anyway :cool:
IMO it's a bullshit win, and Montiel will murder Valdez in the rematch
How exactly are they screwing him? If anything Valdez should of been penalized. He was fighting dirty the whole fight. The doctor stopped the fight. Montiel was asking for one more round.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Why should he have been penalized? He was a little rough but nothing he did warranted a penalty that early in the fight. He led with his head once and even then you can't say definitively that he did it on purpose, he was putting a lot of pressure on, shit happens. The second time Montiel complained about it I looked at it a few times and there is no way somebody could act like they can tell he was trying to butt him, in fact it doesn't look like that at all.
But the ref went along because apparently his job was to watch over Montiel. What's he doing in the second round after the KD? Didn't count, kind of helped him up for fuck's sake, gave him time to rest and recover, its bizarre.
I don't get the rule though, if you're ruled to have been cut by a punch (which he was but the ref missed it, not the end of the world its hard to tell in the heat of the moment) and the fight is stopped because of that before 4 rounds its supposed to be a TKO. But I read something where in Mexico if its stopped before four its a technical draw either way but then they say something about accidental fouls.
Either way Valdez should get an immediate rematch. Its impossible to say exactly what he would have done without the cut, it happened just over a minute in. Montiel was landing but he was never out on his feet and he was bringing a lot of pressure.
Anyway for those who haven't seen it, strange stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMfAs...eature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDqc0...eature=related
Apparently the ref didn't say whether it was caused by a punch or a headbutt. You kind of have to choose one, just be like Laurence Cole and ask the judges :-\
Montiel showed a lack of heart & was helped up by the ref. If you had seen a British or US fighter doing that VD, you would of been calling him a pussy & a biitch. I can't say I was a big fan, but he was one of my favoured fighters in the lower weight-classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHow exactly are they screwing him? If anything Valdez should of been penalized. He was fighting dirty the whole fight. The doctor stopped the fight. Montiel was asking for one more round.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
The cut came from a punch, it should be a TKO. If he'd got caught by a headbutt or cut along the ropes, I'd fully support Montiel, but the fact is he got hit with a punch, panicked over the blood & when he & his corner realized that he was going to lose they pulled him out rather than risk it for a win. He did what Ortiz did, only difference is he got away without a loss. Montiel may be in a different class, but boxing is about everyone having a shot. Valdez took his & has been robbed of the reward.
Montiel showed his true colors
yea, he showed that one more round and he would have knocked Valdez the fuck out, Mayol on the other hand showed he's a dirty little bugger managing to cut a fighter 5 inches shorter than himQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Shit, I'm not even gonna get into whether he showed heart or not but Montiel was the one more likely to be knocked out in the next round, he was getting hammered, he was rattled, and that eye was closing.
Only 1 fighter was getting KO'd & it wasn't Valdez, hence why Montiel's people got him outta there. Agree on Mayol though, he is a dirty fucker, somehow his head drops to chest level when fighting :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyea, he showed that one more round and he would have knocked Valdez the fuck out, Mayol on the other hand showed he's a dirty little bugger managing to cut a fighter 5 inches shorter than himQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Honestly, Ouma, I'm not really one to go at fighters showing a lack of 'heart', I think it's very easy to sit here & be a keyboard Gatti, as many on boxing forums pretend to be.Quote:
Shit, I'm not even gonna get into whether he showed heart or not but Montiel was the one more likely to be knocked out in the next round, he was getting hammered, he was rattled, and that eye was closing.
I probably don't really believe Montiel showed a lack of heart, it just irritates me that people will have one set of rules for one fighter & then a different set when it's one of the favourites getting beat up by the underdog.
I still like Montiel as a fighter, but he was beaten fair & square as far as I can see, & Valdez is not only not getting credit for the win officially, but also on here from people who don't like the fact we saw a fighter beat a guy he logically shouldn't have.
Finally had a chance to see it,thanks for the hook up Ouma.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinMontiel showed a lack of heart & was helped up by the ref. If you had seen a British or US fighter doing that VD, you would of been calling him a pussy & a biitch. I can't say I was a big fan, but he was one of my favoured fighters in the lower weight-classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHow exactly are they screwing him? If anything Valdez should of been penalized. He was fighting dirty the whole fight. The doctor stopped the fight. Montiel was asking for one more round.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
The cut came from a punch, it should be a TKO. If he'd got caught by a headbutt or cut along the ropes, I'd fully support Montiel, but the fact is he got hit with a punch, panicked over the blood & when he & his corner realized that he was going to lose they pulled him out rather than risk it for a win. He did what Ortiz did, only difference is he got away without a loss. Montiel may be in a different class, but boxing is about everyone having a shot. Valdez took his & has been robbed of the reward.
Jaz bud,I really saw no lack of heart there man and certainly no panicked fighter searching for an exit.Any questions about Montiels heart can be most recently answered with a viewing of his under the radar brutal back and forth scrap with another lanky southpaw Melendez late last year.Hurt badly,cut up,swollen and and just plain mashed up, Montiel ignored D and KO'd legit hitter Montiel.From what I saw the man said next to nothing between rounds and was thoughly checked over,the cut was a frigging v shape but he continued to fight on.
I dont speak spanish but did see a hard jab land prior to 1st KD,only view was from behind at about 2:14 (?) and looks like the ref had his head in his arse.No ruling one way or the other.Also think he was shite after Montiel was dropped,very indesicive and bad time to check a cut.Bad officials,shady taste of favoritism but I didn't see Fernando 'looking' for a life line.Ortiz melted down,physically and mentally and opted out as a raw inexperienced prospect in his first big fire fight.There were some crappy circumstances sat night but it was not Montiels first venture into the hurt buisness.
I expect Montiel-Morel is finito now.
Anyway I'd like to see a rematch. Valdez deserves it whether he gets jacked up or not, he really brought it and took some good shots in the process. Of course the cut played a part but it happened so early that you can't say oh look Valdez looked like shit before, it was only the cut that made him look good, only about a minute had gone by, there wasn't enough to go by.
He doesn't look like much but was a fairly crisp puncher and Montiel's always a bit vulnerable, was a nice uppercut he landed.
Mate, any questions about Nate Campbell's heart can be answered by almost any fight of his career, but after the Bradley fight I remember you implying he quit, which would is certainly far more defensible as it was a headbutt & he couldn't see. I more called it a lack of heart because so many defending him have accused others of the same, the difference being his cut came from a punch. Montiel didn't seem desperate to stay in the fight & the favouritism from the ref was shocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliFinally had a chance to see it,thanks for the hook up Ouma.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinMontiel showed a lack of heart & was helped up by the ref. If you had seen a British or US fighter doing that VD, you would of been calling him a pussy & a biitch. I can't say I was a big fan, but he was one of my favoured fighters in the lower weight-classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
The cut came from a punch, it should be a TKO. If he'd got caught by a headbutt or cut along the ropes, I'd fully support Montiel, but the fact is he got hit with a punch, panicked over the blood & when he & his corner realized that he was going to lose they pulled him out rather than risk it for a win. He did what Ortiz did, only difference is he got away without a loss. Montiel may be in a different class, but boxing is about everyone having a shot. Valdez took his & has been robbed of the reward.
Jaz bud,I really saw no lack of heart there man and certainly no panicked fighter searching for an exit.Any questions about Montiels heart can be most recently answered with a viewing of his under the radar brutal back and forth scrap with another lanky southpaw Melendez late last year.Hurt badly,cut up,swollen and and just plain mashed up, Montiel ignored D and KO'd legit hitter Montiel.From what I saw the man said next to nothing between rounds and was thoughly checked over,the cut was a frigging v shape but he continued to fight on.
I dont speak spanish but did see a hard jab land prior to 1st KD,only view was from behind at about 2:14 (?) and looks like the ref had his head in his arse.No ruling one way or the other.Also think he was shite after Montiel was dropped,very indesicive and bad time to check a cut.Bad officials,shady taste of favoritism but I didn't see Fernando 'looking' for a life line.Ortiz melted down,physically and mentally and opted out as a raw inexperienced prospect in his first big fire fight.There were some crappy circumstances sat night but it was not Montiels first venture into the hurt buisness.
In all honesty, I don't think he lacks heart, I think very few guys who get between those ropes do, but I think it was a corrupt decision. I've no doubt Montiel beats him 99/100 times, but Valdez deserves credit for that 1/100 attempt.
All I'm saying is people need to have the same standards regardless of whether the fighter involved is one of their favourites, & that includes myself, so I will retract saying he lacks heart.
I can respect that dude,big time.I personally do believe they were different circumstances but at the end of the day two shit calls that leave a nasty taste in the fans mouth and results that should place two refs in the unemployment line.These two have been and will be favs of mine but I believe Nate did try to massage the circumstances even after ref clearly ruled it a punch...in error...twice.Checking the jumbo tron and only then going off.Sat night there was zero ruling,nattas,nothing and Montiel continued fighting on.He said nearly nothing in the corner while Dr checked him over,no politicing,bardering,ranting and unlike Nates fight the cut was the only factor in Dr stopping the fight between rounds.Nate cut had nothing to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinMate, any questions about Nate Campbell's heart can be answered by almost any fight of his career, but after the Bradley fight I remember you implying he quit, which would is certainly far more defensible as it was a headbutt & he couldn't see. I more called it a lack of heart because so many defending him have accused others of the same, the difference being his cut came from a punch. Montiel didn't seem desperate to stay in the fight & the favouritism from the ref was shocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliFinally had a chance to see it,thanks for the hook up Ouma.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
Jaz bud,I really saw no lack of heart there man and certainly no panicked fighter searching for an exit.Any questions about Montiels heart can be most recently answered with a viewing of his under the radar brutal back and forth scrap with another lanky southpaw Melendez late last year.Hurt badly,cut up,swollen and and just plain mashed up, Montiel ignored D and KO'd legit hitter Montiel.From what I saw the man said next to nothing between rounds and was thoughly checked over,the cut was a frigging v shape but he continued to fight on.
I dont speak spanish but did see a hard jab land prior to 1st KD,only view was from behind at about 2:14 (?) and looks like the ref had his head in his arse.No ruling one way or the other.Also think he was shite after Montiel was dropped,very indesicive and bad time to check a cut.Bad officials,shady taste of favoritism but I didn't see Fernando 'looking' for a life line.Ortiz melted down,physically and mentally and opted out as a raw inexperienced prospect in his first big fire fight.There were some crappy circumstances sat night but it was not Montiels first venture into the hurt buisness.
In all honesty, I don't think he lacks heart, I think very few guys who get between those ropes do, but I think it was a corrupt decision. I've no doubt Montiel beats him 99/100 times, but Valdez deserves credit for that 1/100 attempt.
All I'm saying is people need to have the same standards regardless of whether the fighter involved is one of their favourites, & that includes myself, so I will retract saying he lacks heart.
We can agree,officials in both cases lacking.No one wants a cloud hanging over them like this,win or loss and its the fighters that have to shoulder the effects of crap calls while the very same officials rinse and repeat,getting ready for the next week.
i predict it right now, if a rematch happens (and it should) Montiel stops him before the 5th
I also think they're different circumstances, the difference being a doctor ruled that Campbell could in all likelihood lost the use of his left eye had he fought on & it was clearly a headbutt to all who saw it at the time. I believe he had to check the jumbo-tron just to see how his eye looked because he couldn't see out of it. He's a guy who's earned a degree of respect as a warrior for how he's fought over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I thought Montiel looked lost in the 3rd when he turned away from Valdez & started shouting at the ref about a foul, which I watched back & couldn't see. He didn't look unhappy at the fight ending, most likely because it was made clear to him he wouldn't be taking a loss, hence why he was so calm in the corner. It was a boxing version of a do-over basically. I see someone being unable to see because of a headbutt as the same as a cut. The point is this cut clearly came from a punch & somehow Montiel has escaped without a loss. I'm pretty sure his own corner hurried the doctor in as well. It all just stinks of corruption & Top Rank's money to me. Yes, Montiel will beat him up next time, but it doesn't make what happened on Saturday any less wrong or unfair.
Yeah... that geezer with the strange voice was non other than the once great Julio Cesar Chavez as a comentator. I had the feeling he might have been drunk during this fight, but I confirmed it three days later when he "covered" again for Jorge Arce's defeat. He was so drunk then, that they must have shut him up after the 5th round. I think that either he fell asleep or he went away to throw up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Valdez got lucky, Montiel got scared and even with help managed to get defeated. A minor fight with unsuspected results. Don't even think he'll bother with the rematch, but if there is one, he'll easily knock Valdez down.
Yeah asking for one more round really does show a lack of heart. Montiel has been cut before. And he's fought with eyes shut before. I seriously doubt he panicked. His concern was with Valdez constantly leading with his head. Which he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinMontiel showed a lack of heart & was helped up by the ref. If you had seen a British or US fighter doing that VD, you would of been calling him a pussy & a biitch. I can't say I was a big fan, but he was one of my favoured fighters in the lower weight-classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHow exactly are they screwing him? If anything Valdez should of been penalized. He was fighting dirty the whole fight. The doctor stopped the fight. Montiel was asking for one more round.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
The cut came from a punch, it should be a TKO. If he'd got caught by a headbutt or cut along the ropes, I'd fully support Montiel, but the fact is he got hit with a punch, panicked over the blood & when he & his corner realized that he was going to lose they pulled him out rather than risk it for a win. He did what Ortiz did, only difference is he got away without a loss. Montiel may be in a different class, but boxing is about everyone having a shot. Valdez took his & has been robbed of the reward.
Maybe you watch a different fight than I did. But when exactly did Montiel corner try to pull him out? When exactly did they ask the doctor to stop it?