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If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Lots of great Mexican fighters over the years. Sanchez, Chavez, Lopez, Morales, Barrera, etc.
But has any Mexican fighter ever beaten a fighter of Mayweather's caliber? I say no. Chavez failed in his chance against Whitaker. Sanchez beat Azumah Nelson, but at a time when Nelson was very young and unknown. Morales beat Pacquiao, but at a time when Pacquiao wasn't considered an all-time great like he is now.
So, would it be the biggest win ever by a Mexican fighter?
Discuss.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
It's hard to argue against Chavez/Taylor and the fact that Mayweather is off a 2 year layoff would be used almost immediately to discredit Marquez' win. But if you look at what this would mean that he went 24 even with Pacquiao and then beat Mayweather, yeah that would be a pretty big deal and I would go with Yes, it's the biggest win.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
I would say YES... beating an undefeated 39-0 6 different weight division champ who has beaten legends. Rated p4p 1 by most even though he has not fought in almost 2 years. Then beating him when you are coming up in weight and a huge underdog. After being on a national televised series.. I would say hell yeah.. huge accomplishment for any race lol
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
no.
And salvador sanchez biggest victory wasn't against Nelson but Gomez.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
To the people saying no, im curious to know why? Very few if any boxers have accomplish what mayweather has
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Salvador over Gomez would be or
Chavez over Meldick Taylor although i must admit dat stoppage was a bit questionable.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Salvador over Gomez would be or
Chavez over Meldick Taylor although i must admit dat stoppage was a bit questionable.
Gomez was a great fighter but a one division champion coming up in weight to fight the champion. How that is more impressive then a champion coming up to take on a 6 divison champion rated p4p 1 .. is beyond me.. oh and Taylor was a classic fight the way things turned out but more defining then a mayweather win? i think not
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
I think the Gomez win is definitely his career defining win because it was a much bigger fight then the Nelson win. It was Mexico vs Puerto Rico, Sanchez was incredibly young and it was without doubt the most pressure he ever faced in his career. While Nelson is definitely a great fighter it wasn't quite expected that he would put on that type of performance, it was his first time challenging for a title and he still had his whole career in front of him.
Still, Chavez-Taylor is like lore every single Mexican knows about that fight.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
To the people saying no, im curious to know why? Very few if any boxers have accomplish what mayweather has
Cuz Marquez is a great fighter himself. Him beating anybody shouldn't be a shock.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
To the people saying no, im curious to know why? Very few if any boxers have accomplish what mayweather has
Cuz Marquez is a great fighter himself. Him beating anybody shouldn't be a shock.
That's true VD Marquez is a great fighter but with the way the odds are stacked against him in this fight, I would think it would be shocking if he could win. He just fought for the first time last year at 135 and now he's jumping almost 10 pounds north of that. And when he jumps up in weight he won't be fighting De La Hoya (though that fight would be awesome) or Hatton he'll be fighting Mayweather. It would be hard to believe that he didn't have anything left.
Marquez is awesome but I think the circumstances aren't right for this one but I hope he gets loot and then is able pick fights on his terms for the rest of his career.
I would rank it (
1. Mayweather-Marquez
2. Chavez-Taylor
3. Sanchez-Gomez
4. Barrera-Hamed
5. Chavez Jr.-Vanda
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
If he wins I think it should be regarded as a very, very significant win, perhaps the biggest win by a Mexican. Mayweather is unbeaten and Marquez is climbing two weight divisions to try and pull this off. The odds really are all against him and here he is his going for it with abandon.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Possibly yeah. No other Mexican has beaten anybody this highly ranked. I would say though that Barrera beat undefeated superstars at their best like Morales and Naseem whereas Marquez would be getting Floyd after a 2 year retirement. Long term it may hurt his legacy if people start saying it wasnt a prime Floyd and he came back for the wrong reasons.
Still a massive win.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
To the people saying no, im curious to know why? Very few if any boxers have accomplish what mayweather has
Cuz Marquez is a great fighter himself. Him beating anybody shouldn't be a shock.
That's true VD Marquez is a great fighter but with the way the odds are stacked against him in this fight, I would think it would be shocking if he could win. He just fought for the first time last year at 135 and now he's jumping almost 10 pounds north of that. And when he jumps up in weight he won't be fighting De La Hoya (though that fight would be awesome) or Hatton he'll be fighting Mayweather. It would be hard to believe that he didn't have anything left.
Marquez is awesome but I think the circumstances aren't right for this one but I hope he gets loot and then is able pick fights on his terms for the rest of his career.
I would rank it (
1. Mayweather-Marquez
2. Chavez-Taylor
3. Sanchez-Gomez
4. Barrera-Hamed
5. Chavez Jr.-Vanda
That is exactly what i am saying.. he is coming up in weight fighting the fighter that should be rank 1 p4p. No one has been able to beat mayweather now just imagine a guy coming up in weight and doing that.. that would be the best win in mexican history... like i said before salvador, gomez was a great rivalry war but remember the challenger came up in weight to fight the mexican champion so he already had an advantage.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
No. Not in my eyes.
I think fights like (see below) are both more meaningful. I'm not a Mexican or even a Mexican-American, but it's just how I see it.
De La Hoya TKO11 Vargas
&
De La Hoya TKO4 Chavez
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Maybe.
Not that I see that by Mexican you mean Mexican. ;D
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
To the people saying no, im curious to know why? Very few if any boxers have accomplish what mayweather has
Cuz Marquez is a great fighter himself. Him beating anybody shouldn't be a shock.
OK, but the thread question wasn't "Would this be the most shocking win ever by a Mexican fighter?"
You guys are right that beating Gomez was a bigger win for Sanchez than Nelson, that was a brainfart on my end. But I would argue that Mayweather is clearly a better fighter than Gomez.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
I would say YES... beating an undefeated 39-0 6 different weight division champ who has beaten legends. Rated p4p 1 by most even though he has not fought in almost 2 years. Then beating him when you are coming up in weight and a huge underdog. After being on a national televised series.. I would say hell yeah.. huge accomplishment for any race lol
ummm Mayweather only has titles in 5 divisions not 6
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
No,not for me.He may have every disadvantage on paper but it would propose that Mayweather is a frigging demi-god.All of the trinkets aside,Marquez is not just a Mexican fighter,he's an all time great and an equal ring general!
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
No, Not Mexico's but Marquez's biggest win.
If Marquez went on after beating Mayweather and turned around and beat Pacquiao with a "massive Mexican following" and Pacquiao beat Cotto Then It might be Mexico's biggest win.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
I would say YES... beating an undefeated 39-0 6 different weight division champ who has beaten legends. Rated p4p 1 by most even though he has not fought in almost 2 years. Then beating him when you are coming up in weight and a huge underdog. After being on a national televised series.. I would say hell yeah.. huge accomplishment for any race lol
ummm Mayweather only has titles in 5 divisions not 6
Yeah we all make typos... 6 belts in 5 different divisions i got that confused... that is still 4 more divisions then gomez, and 5 MORE belts.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BoxingGorilla
No. Not in my eyes.
I think fights like (see below) are both more meaningful. I'm not a Mexican or even a Mexican-American, but it's just how I see it.
De La Hoya TKO11 Vargas
&
De La Hoya TKO4 Chavez
I'm sorry, but I don't see the De La Hoya / Vargas fight defining anything considering Vargas is now known to have been overrated seeing as how his defining losses came by way of real competition (Trinidad, Moseley and yes, even Mayorga). Just because Vargas lost out on backing up his "De La Hoya is not a real Mexican" commentary doesn't mean it defined anything for Mexicans or Mexican Americans.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SweetPea
Lots of great Mexican fighters over the years. Sanchez, Chavez, Lopez, Morales, Barrera, etc.
But has any Mexican fighter ever beaten a fighter of Mayweather's caliber? I say no. Chavez failed in his chance against Whitaker. Sanchez beat Azumah Nelson, but at a time when Nelson was very young and unknown. Morales beat Pacquiao, but at a time when Pacquiao wasn't considered an all-time great like he is now.
So, would it be the biggest win ever by a Mexican fighter?
Discuss.
First & foremost…let’s address the obvious…this is going to be one of those questions/posts that could go either way & back & forth…just like my bwoy CuteMick!
That being said in wacko’s humble opinion, & putting favorites aside, the logical answer is Julio Cesar Chavez. Hands down he’s got to be in an all timer’s list but hands down he’s for sure on top of Mexico's best fighters of all time. When you start asking me about favorites period…the list get’s a little shakey & even more questionable.
Personally…my favorites list starts with Juan Manuel Marquez just on his finesse, persona, & abilities. I’ve long been a supporter of Erik Moralles…but dropping him offa the page Marquez is top dog for me. Truly I consider him the greatest Mexican boxer of the decade…maybe the last two…but that’s just me. Many others name & call out Marco Antonio Barrera…& I can see that…maybe even side with it…but at the end of the day it’s Marquez for me.
Now…as for my favorite fighter of all time…that’s Hopkins & Mayweather…anyone who remembers all my insistent ramblings knows that.
That being said…I love the fact that Mayweather’s back…but I’d also love to see the guard get shaken to it's core.
It'd be nice to see it pan out like this : Marquez beats Mayweather by TKO, Cotto beats Pacquiao by KO, immeidiate Marquez/Mayweather rematch in which Mayweather wins, Marquez then wrestles Pacquiao to another insane draw close to Pac's favor, Mayweather defeats Cotto, Mosley rolls in to war with Pacquiao & wins, Cotto then faces Marquez & loses in a fire fight, Mayweather then faces & defeats Paul Williams, Mayweather & Mosley swing to a draw, & then Floyd retires…for good. The door's then wide open for Shane to come in & take Floyd's mantle by handling all the names above.
That’s what I want.
Aint askin for much…am I?
What can I say?
The Super Six Round Robin’s got me hopeful.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SweetPea
Lots of great Mexican fighters over the years. Sanchez, Chavez, Lopez, Morales, Barrera, etc.
But has any Mexican fighter ever beaten a fighter of Mayweather's caliber? I say no. Chavez failed in his chance against Whitaker. Sanchez beat Azumah Nelson, but at a time when Nelson was very young and unknown. Morales beat Pacquiao, but at a time when Pacquiao wasn't considered an all-time great like he is now.
So, would it be the biggest win ever by a Mexican fighter?
Discuss.
First & foremost…let’s address the obvious…this is going to be one of those questions/posts that could go either way & back & forth…just like my bwoy CuteMick!
That being said in wacko’s humble opinion, & putting favorites aside, the logical answer is Julio Cesar Chavez. Hands down he’s got to be in an all timer’s list but hands down he’s for sure on top of Mexico's best fighters of all time. When you start asking me about favorites period…the list get’s a little shakey & even more questionable.
Personally…my favorites list starts with Juan Manuel Marquez just on his finesse, persona, & abilities. I’ve long been a supporter of Erik Moralles…but dropping him offa the page Marquez is top dog for me. Truly I consider him the greatest Mexican boxer of the decade…maybe the last two…but that’s just me. Many others name & call out Marco Antonio Barrera…& I can see that…maybe even side with it…but at the end of the day it’s Marquez for me.
Now…as for my favorite fighter of all time…that’s Hopkins & Mayweather…anyone who remembers all my insistent ramblings knows that.
That being said…I love the fact that Mayweather’s back…but I’d also love to see the guard get shaken to it's core.
It'd be nice to see it pan out like this : Marquez beats Mayweather by TKO, Cotto beats Pacquiao by KO, immeidiate Marquez/Mayweather rematch in which Mayweather wins, Marquez then wrestles Pacquiao to another insane draw close to Pac's favor, Mayweather defeats Cotto, Mosley rolls in to war with Pacquiao & wins, Cotto then faces Marquez & loses in a fire fight, Mayweather then faces & defeats Paul Williams, Mayweather & Mosley swing to a draw, & then Floyd retires…for good. The door's then wide open for Shane to come in & take Floyd's mantle by handling all the names above.
That’s what I want.
Aint askin for much…am I?
What can I say?
The Super Six Round Robin’s got me hopeful.
Ok this thread is now over, it has just turned into "Wacko is alive" thread ;D
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snakey
Ok this thread is now over, it has just turned into "Wacko is alive" thread ;D
Heh heh heh.
Indeed...Wacko is still suckin' air.
Good to be back...I'll be in & out as often as possible, my bwoyo's.
Glad to see that everyone is still here...& there.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
now if we could just get Trainer Monkey back :peeker:
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
now if we could just get Trainer Monkey back :peeker:
;D
Two legends from completely different sides of the spectrum.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
I think it would be, I think it would be a greater accomplishment than Chavez win over Taylor or Sanchez win over Gomez. Not because Marquez isn't amazing, I consider only Sanchez better & him roughly level with JCC & Lopez, but because as opposition, Mayweather is better than any of the best wins of the others.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
:crowd: Ci senoir, he will be the savior and patron :saint: saint of Mexican boxing .
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Yes, it would WILL be the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter !!!
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snakey
Ok this thread is now over, it has just turned into "Wacko is alive" thread ;D
Heh heh heh.
Indeed...Wacko is still suckin' air.
Good to be back...I'll be in & out as often as possible, my bwoyo's.
Glad to see that everyone is still here...& there.
Who are you ???
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
I would say YES... beating an undefeated 39-0 6 different weight division champ who has beaten legends. Rated p4p 1 by most even though he has not fought in almost 2 years. Then beating him when you are coming up in weight and a huge underdog. After being on a national televised series.. I would say hell yeah.. huge accomplishment for any race lol
ummm Mayweather only has titles in 5 divisions not 6
Yeah we all make typos... 6 belts in 5 different divisions i got that confused... that is still 4 more divisions then gomez, and 5 MORE belts.
name one fighter on Mayweather's record that was remotely as good as Wilfredo Gomez
belts mean crap, if we were gonna go by that DLH is a god compared to Mayweather, titles in 6 weight classes and 10 titles
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
ummm Mayweather only has titles in 5 divisions not 6
Yeah we all make typos... 6 belts in 5 different divisions i got that confused... that is still 4 more divisions then gomez, and 5 MORE belts.
name one fighter on Mayweather's record that was remotely as good as Wilfredo Gomez
belts mean crap, if we were gonna go by that DLH is a god compared to Mayweather, titles in 6 weight classes and 10 titles
thats true belt done mean shit, if belts did it would be the lineal titles. In that case marquez, floyd and oscar has about the same amount of lineal titles which is.......2.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snakey
Ok this thread is now over, it has just turned into "Wacko is alive" thread ;D
Heh heh heh.
Indeed...Wacko is still suckin' air.
Good to be back...I'll be in & out as often as possible, my bwoyo's.
Glad to see that everyone is still here...& there.
hiya Wacko gald that your back dont be a stranger:cool:
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
certainly the biggest sporting upset of 2009
If marq was able to expose a rusty floyd and take a decision it would be an amazing achievement. If however he was too actually stop floyd....id have to completely re-evaluate my whole boxing knowledge and would go with the ethos that anything possible
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
certainly the biggest sporting upset of 2009
If marq was able to expose a rusty floyd and take a decision it would be an amazing achievement. If however he was too actually stop floyd....id have to completely re-evaluate my whole boxing knowledge and would go with the ethos that anything possible
Marquez will do the same thing he did with Chris John, chase his ass around the ring. As soon as Floyd gets hit, any aggressiveness he has in mind to look good, goes out of his mind. If styles make fights, then this is what we'll see.
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
ummm Mayweather only has titles in 5 divisions not 6
Yeah we all make typos... 6 belts in 5 different divisions i got that confused... that is still 4 more divisions then gomez, and 5 MORE belts.
name one fighter on Mayweather's record that was remotely as good as Wilfredo Gomez
belts mean crap, if we were gonna go by that DLH is a god compared to Mayweather, titles in 6 weight classes and 10 titles
Belts mean crap? That is what boxing is all about becoming the champ! Sure some champions are not always the best fighters out there but you can't hate on mayweathers accomplishments. He beat legit world champions. Wilfredo Gomez was great fighter but the he had a fucking PADDED record. The guy was fighting 2-0, 0-3 fighters at his prime. One mayweather opponent who was remotely as good as Gomez you say? De la hoya there is your answer... i can't believe how some people think this wont be the biggest win for mexicans
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
Yeah we all make typos... 6 belts in 5 different divisions i got that confused... that is still 4 more divisions then gomez, and 5 MORE belts.
name one fighter on Mayweather's record that was remotely as good as Wilfredo Gomez
belts mean crap, if we were gonna go by that DLH is a god compared to Mayweather, titles in 6 weight classes and 10 titles
Belts mean crap? That is what boxing is all about becoming the champ! Sure some champions are not always the best fighters out there but you can't hate on mayweathers accomplishments. He beat legit world champions. Wilfredo Gomez was great fighter but the he had a fucking PADDED record. The guy was fighting 2-0, 0-3 fighters at his prime. One mayweather opponent who was remotely as good as Gomez you say? De la hoya there is your answer... i can't believe how some people think this wont be the biggest win for mexicans
Gomez was in his prime and undefeated when Sanchez beat him. And Gomez beat good fighters such as Alberto Davila, Royal Kobayasho, Juan Meza, Lupe Pintor, Juan Laporte, Rocky Lockridge, and the great Carlos Zarate who was undefeated and in his prime. Goddamn that's one hell of a padded record!
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Re: If Marquez wins, is it the biggest victory ever by a Mexican fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
purtyboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
name one fighter on Mayweather's record that was remotely as good as Wilfredo Gomez
belts mean crap, if we were gonna go by that DLH is a god compared to Mayweather, titles in 6 weight classes and 10 titles
Belts mean crap? That is what boxing is all about becoming the champ! Sure some champions are not always the best fighters out there but you can't hate on mayweathers accomplishments. He beat legit world champions. Wilfredo Gomez was great fighter but the he had a fucking PADDED record. The guy was fighting 2-0, 0-3 fighters at his prime. One mayweather opponent who was remotely as good as Gomez you say? De la hoya there is your answer... i can't believe how some people think this wont be the biggest win for mexicans
Gomez was in his prime and undefeated when Sanchez beat him. And Gomez beat good fighters such as Alberto Davila, Royal Kobayasho, Juan Meza, Lupe Pintor, Juan Laporte, Rocky Lockridge, and the great Carlos Zarate who was undefeated and in his prime. Goddamn that's one hell of a padded record!
You obviously dont know what a padded record is... It does not mean he did not fight decent opponents, because ofcourse he did. It means he was 21-0 fighting guys 2-0.. 0-3... answer me this.. When did mayweather fight guys like that at 20-0 ? He was already fighting champions.
