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A good article from the BBC Blog today. I think it sums things up really, most people base the popularity of boxing on the security of a houselhold name as HW champion.
BBC - BBC Sport: Ben Dirs: Boxing needs a Bolt
This one is bound to get the juices flowing again , in particular where Haye fans are concerned. looks like your man ain't that well known after all Lefty.
What happens when Haye gets knocked out? I think most people know who Wladimir Klitschko is, and the heavyweight division has quite a bit of talent, but I think it needs to start having exciting fights.
UFC didn't get popular because of its skill level, but because it was making its fights exciting for the fans. The heavyweight division needs a publicized throw down, but I think the smaller guys are giving it enough buzz.
I think the article has hit it on the head though in terms of visibility, for as long as I can remember people know who the HW champ was, now it could be as the cabbie in the article said , boxing hasn't been on the telly for ages. I think it's basing the poularity of boxing around where it used to site with the casual fan. People watched it on TV when it was on but wouldn't have been inclined to pay for it or download etc.
I agree with Taeth , we need to see some exciting fights. Do you hear that Haye, fights not just talking about how good you are. Starting to sound very much like Audrey Harrison now !
Boxing is not in anywhere near the state this guy makes out. In the UK, it's actually doing pretty well, despite the TV companies best efforts. Consider that 3% of the total population of Britain stayed awake till 4 in the morning to watch the Hatton-Mayweather fight. That's not viewing audience that's of all the people in 4 separate countries.
The thing is the sport has become far more ethnocentric in the past decade or so, with a small number of stars in their own 'community' & occasional cross-over stars. For example, Mayweather is a MASSIVE star in the black community in Britain, particularly with young people. I have friends who would think Marvellous Marvin Hagler was a pornstar & Roberto Duran a footballer they couldn't place, but will stay up to watch a Mayweather fight. I would imagine he has at least a similar status in the African-American community. Honestly, I've had people pestering me all week about the fight, people who I know have absolutely no interest in boxing as a sport.
Similarly, Hatton's popularity as a white, working-class hero brought him absolutely legions of fans, people who had no idea who JMM was at the Pac-Hatton weigh-in, but still people who will travel half-way around the world & spend thousands of ££s to support him. He tapped into something that many other UK fighters couldn't & created a following, something that Calzaghe was eventually able to exploit as well. Joe Calzaghe's personal life would not be on the front page of tabloids if he was not a star, & let's face it, he's managed this with the minimal amount of personality. It will be interesting to see whether Carl Froch can pick up on this.
Similar things can be seen with the Asian community & how they've embraced Amir Khan & made him the PPV star many feel he doesn't deserve to be (myself included). It happened before with Naz, one fighter getting a community behind them. All of that is just over here. The way ODLH tapped into the Latino audience in the US, as did Trinidad & Cotto, was the blueprint for this. Plus we can all see the effect of Manny Pacquiao pretty much every day on here.
The problem with marketing fighters towards a certain ethnic community is that you rely on continued success to keep the fans in the mainstream & there is a dearth of boxers of the largest ethnic group in the US. Kelly Pavlik could have been that guy but then he got beaten up by a 43 year old & I think in pushing fighters towards ethnic demographics damages the sport in this way. In the 80s, the fighters & their ability tended to do the speaking for itself, but it was only in retrospect that the likes of Hagler became a star. It was only after his fight with Hearns that he really became the name he is now, & even then neither Hearns or Hagler reached the level of public consciousness in the way Duran or Leonard did.
It's easy to say there are no crossover stars, but Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Floyd Mayweather & Manny Pacquiao have all disproved that in recent years by not only becoming stars among those of a similar background, but at least becoming recognizable names above it. The Klitschkos have neither the personality nor the style to excite people in the US & UK, but that doesn't mean they're not massive superstars in Germany & the former Soviet Union.
Haye beating Valuev might do something, but the problem is he hasn't marketed himself anywhere outside the radar of that of boxing fans. If Arreola beats Vitali, it might start to put HW boxing back on the map a bit. But, historically the sport has been in far worse shape at other times in its history & pulled through.
Oh & the comparisom to Bolt was ridiculous, the guy has 10 or 20 second races that people can watch quick on tv or on youtube. He is the ONLY athletics star right now, if mentioned the names of any of those pole-vaulters or long-jumpers, people would think you were abusing them in another language. The key thing boxing needs to do is stop thinking about fucking ethnic demographics & make exciting fights. Which it is starting to do.
SORRY FOR THE SHEER LENGTH OF THAT, THE ARTICLE SEEMED VERY POORLY RESEARCHED TO ME
I agree with a lot of what you are saying there Jaz, I think the problem is that people remember what boxing was like in terms of coverage in newspapers and television back in the good old days.
When I was in my 20's there were fights on TV all the time, there was no Foxtel,Sky, Cable etc . ITV ran the fight night show and the BBC had boxing on too.
The very good point you make is the marketing of ethnic fighters and how it's very much based on their success. How many of the young Asian guys tuning in to watch Khan will do the same for JMM,Pac etc.
It's a point proven on this very sight that we see certain people post only when a certain fighter is in action ( I don't need to name the fighter right !!) When these guys are not in action or have walked away there will be a great gap in those ethnic groups unless the start to embrace the fight as a whole.
I also know that some of the casual fight fans I know use the argument that they no longer know who's who with all the different belts and weights so that's another reason they lose interest.
Nice response Jaz.
As I'm only just in my 20s I can't really talk with any experience of how it used to be, but I do get that impression, although on my degree in a brief lecture in sports journalistic trends, they pointed out that all sports had been pushed further back in the paper bar major sporting events (see major fights, the ashes, 6 nations & other sporting tournaments) due to football.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebhoy
I do think marketing things to ethnic groups serves some purpose, & that people will buy a fight outside of that involving a star like Oscar, Floyd or Manny, but its left the difference between the superstars & the rest even bigger. For example, whilst Manny Pacquiao has brought many fans on board who will also now support Nonito Donaire or Brian Viloria, they are generally not interested in becoming more knowledgeable about the sport, more going on about how great their fighters are.
Also the focus on a big fighter can mean that fighter gets all the fans. Floyd has basically hoovered up a lot of the major support among the young, black community, but in doing so has meant that other excellent black fighters like Paul Williams or Chad Dawson can't get fans outside the boxing community because the ethnic 'star' spot is already taken. Andre Berto looks like he might next fill this void largely through getting himself seen with rappers & such. It's because of that marketing that Zab Judah is a more well known name amongst these young people who they need to buy the fights than Shane Mosley. I kid you not.
I think Pacquiao has now reached the stage where people who are say Khan fans will shell out for his fights, but I think if JMM was not up against PBF the casual sports fan would have no interest or single fighter fan wouldn't have an interest. Ironically even if he loses, I reckon his next fight will bring bigger exposure off the back of his antics on 24/7. As much as part of me hates these catchweight fights, with all the endless belts right now they serve the purpose of bringing the best together, which will be the only way to get the public back interested.
I think a lot of the futue lies in the TV people taking the new upcoming guys and getting them on shows like the old fight night ones where we can see them as they develop.
Whilst the Olympics and World Championships are on we get a bit of exposure to the young up and coming fighters, then they seem to drop off. The initial interest needs to be followed up and if we see these young guys coming through we will then be likely to follow them as they do progress to the PPV end of the market.
As an old fart I remember the world when it was a simpler place, you watched a fight live on TV or the next day, there was no internet to spoil the result, the papers hadn't been printed with the result and unless someone called you from the States you could watch 12 hrs later with some excitement !!
Ahh When I were a Lad...............:eek:
Boxing does not need a Bolt. British boxing is fine.
Better than Anthony "Biitch" Mundine and Michael Katsidis I can tell you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinAs I'm only just in my 20s I can't really talk with any experience of how it used to be, but I do get that impression, although on my degree in a brief lecture in sports journalistic trends, they pointed out that all sports had been pushed further back in the paper bar major sporting events (see major fights, the ashes, 6 nations & other sporting tournaments) due to football.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebhoy
I do think marketing things to ethnic groups serves some purpose, & that people will buy a fight outside of that involving a star like Oscar, Floyd or Manny, but its left the difference between the superstars & the rest even bigger. For example, whilst Manny Pacquiao has brought many fans on board who will also now support Nonito Donaire or Brian Viloria, they are generally not interested in becoming more knowledgeable about the sport, more going on about how great their fighters are.
Also the focus on a big fighter can mean that fighter gets all the fans. Floyd has basically hoovered up a lot of the major support among the young, black community, but in doing so has meant that other excellent black fighters like Paul Williams or Chad Dawson can't get fans outside the boxing community because the ethnic 'star' spot is already taken. Andre Berto looks like he might next fill this void largely through getting himself seen with rappers & such. It's because of that marketing that Zab Judah is a more well known name amongst these young people who they need to buy the fights than Shane Mosley. I kid you not.
I think Pacquiao has now reached the stage where people who are say Khan fans will shell out for his fights, but I think if JMM was not up against PBF the casual sports fan would have no interest or single fighter fan wouldn't have an interest. Ironically even if he loses, I reckon his next fight will bring bigger exposure off the back of his antics on 24/7. As much as part of me hates these catchweight fights, with all the endless belts right now they serve the purpose of bringing the best together, which will be the only way to get the public back interested.
i dont neccesarily believe in the whole community theory
bruno,benn,eubank were equally loved and hated throughout all working life in britain. You may have a point with the whole asian community thing. They do indeed tend to marginalise themselves and cheer on their boys instead of your ricky hattons or david hayes.
Like yourself jaz i very much grew up around 90s boxing which was a golden era for britain at the time. At the very top of the weights we had the ups and downs of bruno to an undisputed world champ in lennox. We had the great eubank/benn/collins/watson feuds that created endless classic encounters. Not to mention prince naz, steve robinson etc
Naturally a golden era doesnt last forever and just like the heavyweight divisions demise britain has naturally suffered a loss of boxing megastars with the last 8 years really only having brought through 1 name you could genuinely class as household (sounds amazing but calzaghe is still a relative unknown amongst non fight fans)
Your completely spot in that comparing a one dimensional sport such as 100metre running where the fastest guy will always come out on top to the art of boxing and the many many factors you have to take into place is a bit unfair. I do see what dirs is trying to get at in the peice but he has gone about it in completely the wrong manner.
Britain cant single handedly revitalise the heavyweight division thats a problem that america and america alone needs to work on. But we should be hitting better targets than what we currently are the demand for the sport is still very high in britain. If guys like carl froch are going over to america and winning world titles yet not even getting a live slot on british tv then the sport is naturally doomed to fail. The tv companys have no responsibility to consistently promote boxing but the powers within do and something has gone seriously seriously wrong when we cant even see a homegrown lad crowned world champion :(:(:(
Every sport needs a Bolt but they are rare and special and we do not normally appreciate them until they have gone.
Boxing HAS dominant fighters especially in the heavyweight division! Nobody can touch Wlad and Vitali right now...
#1 People in boxing need to worry about the NOW and not keep looking back to the past! Appreciate what we have, appreciate the Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s, Bernard Hopkins', Klitschko's, Pacquiao's, Marquez's and all while they are still around!
#2 In the heavyweight division it's not that the Klitschko's aren't dominant it's that they have no close competition, when was the last time either of them had some adversity in a fight? Vitali got buzzed by Corrie Sanders in 2004 and Wladimir got cut by Calvin Brock in 2006, that was the last time he had any adversity in a fight. And guys like Sultan and Chagaev basically give up or run away after getting popped a couple times. We can only hope that younger guys can at least TEST these Brothers.
Boxing fans no matter how great boxing is, are always saying "We used to have _____", "Remember when _____"....well I'm telling you appreciate what we have, because some guys are pretty damn good right now and other than that we're stuck with them until something better comes along.
Boxing doesn't need a savior; It needs fewer promoters, far lesser belts and more tournaments like the one we're having at the moment, all these things that will spark interest and provide the casual viewer with better quality fights.
The big problem now, compared to before is that nobody can point who's THE champion and that it is way too easy to skip from real opponents for a long time; While some paper champions created with some lousy promoter's scissors are pointed by the camera, some real and worthy champions are ignored by the mainstream medias and thefore, the guy who's not a specialist in boxing but could be a potential fan is plainly left uninterested by the pitiful state of things he sees.
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Originally Posted by Lyle
completely true, if your reffering to every division other than heavyweight
mayweather, pacquiao, hatton, jones, hopkins, marquez, cotto, kessler, froch, dawson -we still have our superstars
but where heavyweight is concerned......c`mon lyle even youve gotta accept its a complete mess
The problems with the heavyweights are as follows...
1. There's a lack of PROVEN contenders, there are a lot of very young contenders and very old fighter who are still hanging around, but there aren't very many Young Contenders with experience...Chambers and Arreola have tried to prepare for the Klitschko's as best as they can, but to me they are still very green.
2. When the contenders get their shot, they fight not to lose instead of fighting to win. If you challenge the Klitschko's you make them fight, you make them fight and the fight gets a little more interesting. Waiting to counter for 10 rounds doesn't cut it!!!
3. The young up and coming fighters don't test themselves early in their careers. If you don't test yourself you don't develop a following, you don't make yourself better, you get lazy and you can't handle adversity and being able to cope with adversity is a KEY to being a champion.
....also it wouldn't hurt if heavyweights other than the Klitschko's came to fight IN SHAPE
As a fan of The Klitschko's, I don't mind the "mess", let the other people worry about that, I just want Wlad and Vitali to keep winning
Boxing is only in decline in America, because of the lack of a very good American HW to capture the nation's imagination. America has always had a love fest for that division throughout the years. When they say boxing is dying it only applies to America imo. To capture America's interest in boxing again it has to have a good American HW or HWs. The sport is still wildly popular in many countries. And a sport like MMA is still considered to be a sideshow attraction in those countries and still isn't up to par with boxing's appeal.
Where boxing is a top 5 sport would be countries in Latin America, and a few Asian countries like Japan, Thailand, Phillipines, and get this since China won a few gold medals in boxing at the '08 Olympics boxing is gaining popularity over there. The Duvas are training their Olympic Gold medalists. And of course Manny Pacquiao's success also has an effect in that region.
Boxing is doing fine overall in the world, when people say no one cares about it anymore and that it's dying, it might hold some truth for a certain country in north america, but it sure doesn't apply to the rest of the world.
....that's why guys like 'Monk' Foreman and Deontay Wilder had better be managed very carefully and built up to not get upended once they get to where they are contenders.