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Although beign at a disadvantage in speed, size and knowin there was some cheap stuff goin on with the weight he fought all 12 rounds and kept goin forward like a true warrior and he took Mayweather's best shots like nothin even he made the fight a lil tough for Floyd as he was not able to go off on Marquez or KO him which is what was expected.
Marquez you are a true Mexican warrior!
There's no question that Marquez is an atg. He went into the fight being smaller, shorter, older, more wear and tear, slower, less powerful and manage to go the distance, everything was against him, a truly Mexican badass.:cool:
The only one who deserves credit is Marquez. He could have cancelled, but instead went ahead and grinded on through despite everything being against him. Marquez is the consumate proffesional. As for Mayweather....well, he exists. I don't have anything good to say about him.
Juan Manuel Marquez is Great.
To accomplish what he has after spending the 1st half of career in the shadows speaks volumes to his legacy.An honest and true professional,the man is an all time great!
Dude, let it go. The fight would have happened the same way no matter what weight the fight was at. Unless you think Marquez landing 68 punches while landing 59 percent of all his punches on him the entire fight had anything to do with Mayweather's size then by all means take credit from Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Possibly. I had always said Marquez would need a miracle to try and pull this one out. But still. I see nothing cool about not making a contract weight and then possibly coming in 3 weight classes above what your opponent is. Punch for punch Mayweathers punches would have had much more impact than those of Marquez. He wasn't going to win anyway, but those pre fight antics were really rubbing salt into the wounds. He was never in the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyDude, let it go. The fight would have happened the same way no matter what weight the fight was at. Unless you think Marquez landing 68 punches while landing 59 percent of all his punches on him the entire fight had anything to do with Mayweather's size then by all means take credit from Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Mayweather has really turned me off with all of this. It's got so bad that I think I would even be supporting Manny Pac in a Mayweather/Pac fight! :o:p
did the fact Mayweather made Marquez only land about 68 punches the entire night have anything to do with the weight? Did the fact Mayweather was able to land at will have anything to do with his weight? Mayweather would catch Marquez at any weight and he didn't have to overpower him. Marquez just couldn't catch him and had no answer for the things he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesPossibly. I had always said Marquez would need a miracle to try and pull this one out. But still. I see nothing cool about not making a contract weight and then possibly coming in 3 weight classes above what your opponent is. Punch for punch Mayweathers punches would have had much more impact than those of Marquez. He wasn't going to win anyway, but those pre fight antics were really rubbing salt into the wounds. He was never in the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyDude, let it go. The fight would have happened the same way no matter what weight the fight was at. Unless you think Marquez landing 68 punches while landing 59 percent of all his punches on him the entire fight had anything to do with Mayweather's size then by all means take credit from Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Mayweather has really turned me off with all of this. It's got so bad that I think I would even be supporting Manny Pac in a Mayweather/Pac fight! :o:p
The contracted weight was 147 but Mayweather would be fined for every pound he was over 144. And even Emanuel Stewart said something to this effect but personally any fighter in Mayweather's position who didn't do what he did would have been stupid to think "Well im gonna drain myself to make the weight so I don't have to pay a fine". It's not like a Pacquiao fight where its in the CONTRACT you can't come in, in that contract it was selective and you can't blame Mayweather for choosing not to disadvantage himself if it wasn't mandatory. It's kind of stupid to weaken yourself prior to even getting in the ring and it's not like Marquez was worried about not making 144 so It's not like he held back on training to make sure he didn't go over 144 either.
Think about if, if it was in the Cotto vs Pacquiao fight that Cotto could come in at 147 if he wanted but would be fined for any limit over 144 against Pacquiao do you THINK that he would say "well I'm gonna drain myself to not pay this fine" or would he say "fuck that I'm coming in at 147 this guy isn't gonna get an inch" And Cotto would come in at 147 and nobody would say shit.
Like I said, Marquez was likely to lose anyway. But you can't fight competitively with a guy that outweighs you by 15-20 pounds, especially if it is Mayweather. The public was led to believe that the fight was for 144 pounds, that's how it was marketed. It seems that a week before the fight Mayweathers camp made overtures to Marquez and Marquez conceded that Mayweather could come in heavier if he paid the penalty. It's the fighters obligation to come in at the expected weight. It's hard work boiling down? Well, you should have thought of that before making the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestydid the fact Mayweather made Marquez only land about 68 punches the entire night have anything to do with the weight? Did the fact Mayweather was able to land at will have anything to do with his weight? Mayweather would catch Marquez at any weight and he didn't have to overpower him. Marquez just couldn't catch him and had no answer for the things he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesPossibly. I had always said Marquez would need a miracle to try and pull this one out. But still. I see nothing cool about not making a contract weight and then possibly coming in 3 weight classes above what your opponent is. Punch for punch Mayweathers punches would have had much more impact than those of Marquez. He wasn't going to win anyway, but those pre fight antics were really rubbing salt into the wounds. He was never in the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Mayweather has really turned me off with all of this. It's got so bad that I think I would even be supporting Manny Pac in a Mayweather/Pac fight! :o:p
The contracted weight was 147 but Mayweather would be fined for every pound he was over 144. And even Emanuel Stewart said something to this effect but personally any fighter in Mayweather's position who didn't do what he did would have been stupid to think "Well im gonna drain myself to make the weight so I don't have to pay a fine". It's not like a Pacquiao fight where its in the CONTRACT you can't come in, in that contract it was selective and you can't blame Mayweather for choosing not to disadvantage himself if it wasn't mandatory. It's kind of stupid to weaken yourself prior to even getting in the ring and it's not like Marquez was worried about not making 144 so It's not like he held back on training to make sure he didn't go over 144 either.
Think about if, if it was in the Cotto vs Pacquiao fight that Cotto could come in at 147 if he wanted but would be fined for any limit over 144 against Pacquiao do you THINK that he would say "well I'm gonna drain myself to not pay this fine" or would he say "fuck that I'm coming in at 147 this guy isn't gonna get an inch" And Cotto would come in at 147 and nobody would say shit.
In the case of the Cotto fight, I think if the penalty was a million dollars per pound then I think Cotto might well try to guarantee that he makes the weight.
Mayweather put on a very good display, but with all those advantages Marquez was never in it. Down in the second and seemingly gun shy for large parts of the fight. The weight affected Marquez very badly. Both his own weight which slowed him down and appear laboured and Mayweathers weight which made Marquez look so small. But not only the weight...also the reach and height advantages too. Marquez had little to offer in response to that.
Mayweather needs to cut out this business of fighting smaller men and get in there with proper WW's who are used to the weight and hit hard.
Marquez is a true warrior. Always gets up after going down and never looking for a way out of a fight. We all know that he knows it was a futile effort, but he wanted tp finish 12 rounds with dignity.
Also, let's not try to fool ourselves that weight isnt a factor. It wasn't too long ago that fans were so ticked off about the weight limit between Cotto-Pac. Now suddenly weight is not an issue because the result would have been the same anyway? You cant have both side of the coins.
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Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Mayweather had the same height reach and was faster at the lower weights so would have beaten Marquez at any weight class and Marquez would have had to deal with all of that anyway at any weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesLike I said, Marquez was likely to lose anyway. But you can't fight competitively with a guy that outweighs you by 15-20 pounds, especially if it is Mayweather. The public was led to believe that the fight was for 144 pounds, that's how it was marketed. It seems that a week before the fight Mayweathers camp made overtures to Marquez and Marquez conceded that Mayweather could come in heavier if he paid the penalty. It's the fighters obligation to come in at the expected weight. It's hard work boiling down? Well, you should have thought of that before making the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestydid the fact Mayweather made Marquez only land about 68 punches the entire night have anything to do with the weight? Did the fact Mayweather was able to land at will have anything to do with his weight? Mayweather would catch Marquez at any weight and he didn't have to overpower him. Marquez just couldn't catch him and had no answer for the things he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
The contracted weight was 147 but Mayweather would be fined for every pound he was over 144. And even Emanuel Stewart said something to this effect but personally any fighter in Mayweather's position who didn't do what he did would have been stupid to think "Well im gonna drain myself to make the weight so I don't have to pay a fine". It's not like a Pacquiao fight where its in the CONTRACT you can't come in, in that contract it was selective and you can't blame Mayweather for choosing not to disadvantage himself if it wasn't mandatory. It's kind of stupid to weaken yourself prior to even getting in the ring and it's not like Marquez was worried about not making 144 so It's not like he held back on training to make sure he didn't go over 144 either.
Think about if, if it was in the Cotto vs Pacquiao fight that Cotto could come in at 147 if he wanted but would be fined for any limit over 144 against Pacquiao do you THINK that he would say "well I'm gonna drain myself to not pay this fine" or would he say "fuck that I'm coming in at 147 this guy isn't gonna get an inch" And Cotto would come in at 147 and nobody would say shit.
In the case of the Cotto fight, I think if the penalty was a million dollars per pound then I think Cotto might well try to guarantee that he makes the weight.
Mayweather put on a very good display, but with all those advantages Marquez was never in it. Down in the second and seemingly gun shy for large parts of the fight. The weight affected Marquez very badly. Both his own weight which slowed him down and appear laboured and Mayweathers weight which made Marquez look so small. But not only the weight...also the reach and height advantages too. Marquez had little to offer in response to that.
Mayweather needs to cut out this business of fighting smaller men and get in there with proper WW's who are used to the weight and hit hard.
Marquez has little offer in terms of Floyd period but I think people put too much on the weight.
Mayweather, A true sportsman! :horseshit:Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyMayweather had the same height reach and was faster at the lower weights so would have beaten Marquez at any weight class and Marquez would have had to deal with all of that anyway at any weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesLike I said, Marquez was likely to lose anyway. But you can't fight competitively with a guy that outweighs you by 15-20 pounds, especially if it is Mayweather. The public was led to believe that the fight was for 144 pounds, that's how it was marketed. It seems that a week before the fight Mayweathers camp made overtures to Marquez and Marquez conceded that Mayweather could come in heavier if he paid the penalty. It's the fighters obligation to come in at the expected weight. It's hard work boiling down? Well, you should have thought of that before making the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
In the case of the Cotto fight, I think if the penalty was a million dollars per pound then I think Cotto might well try to guarantee that he makes the weight.
Mayweather put on a very good display, but with all those advantages Marquez was never in it. Down in the second and seemingly gun shy for large parts of the fight. The weight affected Marquez very badly. Both his own weight which slowed him down and appear laboured and Mayweathers weight which made Marquez look so small. But not only the weight...also the reach and height advantages too. Marquez had little to offer in response to that.
Mayweather needs to cut out this business of fighting smaller men and get in there with proper WW's who are used to the weight and hit hard.
Marquez has little offer in terms of Floyd period but I think people put too much on the weight.
He would have won regardless of his weight because Marquez couldn't handle the style.
Marquez deserves the accolades on this one. The heart of a real champion!
Think of a fighter that weighs 4lb more than you and now think how many punches your going to get off knowing that every one of his punches is gonna be the hardest youv ever taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Obviously if one fighter is stronger than the other, the smaller fighter isnt going to open up as much:rolleyes: It has everything to do with the weight but it did since the fight was made really.
It would be like Floyd fighting Mikkel Kessler;)
Stop trying to insinuate that Marquez was scared to get hit. Someone as much of a warrior as Marquez wasn't scared of Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossThink of a fighter that weighs 4lb more than you and now think how many punches your going to get off knowing that every one of his punches is gonna be the hardest youv ever taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Obviously if one fighter is stronger than the other, the smaller fighter isnt going to open up as much:rolleyes: It has everything to do with the weight but it did since the fight was made really.
It would be like Floyd fighting Mikkel Kessler;)
He was just gonna get countered whatever he did so he was trying to find a way to hit Mayweather without getting caught with a counter and couldn't find a strategy.
Of course, he wasn't scared to get hit. But Floyd hit hard that night and Marquez had likely never been hit that hard before. And neither was he as easy to hit with carrying all that weight himself. You just had to look at the two of them to see the difference. It was immense!Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyStop trying to insinuate that Marquez was scared to get hit. Someone as much of a warrior as Marquez wasn't scared of Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossThink of a fighter that weighs 4lb more than you and now think how many punches your going to get off knowing that every one of his punches is gonna be the hardest youv ever taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Obviously if one fighter is stronger than the other, the smaller fighter isnt going to open up as much:rolleyes: It has everything to do with the weight but it did since the fight was made really.
It would be like Floyd fighting Mikkel Kessler;)
He was just gonna get countered whatever he did so he was trying to find a way to hit Mayweather without getting caught with a counter and couldn't find a strategy.
I don't see the point in trying to defend this Mayweather win as meaningful. I liked the comparison Ross made likening it to Mayweather against Kessler. Come fight night there was definitely a huge weight difference between Mayweather and Marquez, and Mayweather did that in a very shady way. There is no excusing it. The weight was tough enough for Marquez anyway, but he was in with a beast.
And I'm not making excuses here because I had always said Marquez was likely to lose, but I cannot accept that this win is one that should go on the totem pole as a massively significant one in Mayweathers career. Everyone thought he would win and he did and he made it more emphatic by coming in 3 weight classes heavier than his opponent. How anyone could think that size was not a contributing factor is beyond me.
Hopefully this will lead to a more meaningful fight. I respect Floyds wins over DLH and Hatton (to a lesser extent), but this I don't care for at all. Especially with the weight carry on, it reflects poorly on Floyd.
Exactly, as good as Mayweather is, if he moved up to fight Kessler or even Pavlik, his punches would just bounce off them but theres would knock him half way across the ring, he just wouldnt want to open up.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOf course, he wasn't scared to get hit. But Floyd hit hard that night and Marquez had likely never been hit that hard before. And neither was he as easy to hit with carrying all that weight himself. You just had to look at the two of them to see the difference. It was immense!Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyStop trying to insinuate that Marquez was scared to get hit. Someone as much of a warrior as Marquez wasn't scared of Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
He was just gonna get countered whatever he did so he was trying to find a way to hit Mayweather without getting caught with a counter and couldn't find a strategy.
I don't see the point in trying to defend this Mayweather win as meaningful. I liked the comparison Ross made likening it to Mayweather against Kessler. Come fight night there was definitely a huge weight difference between Mayweather and Marquez, and Mayweather did that in a very shady way. There is no excusing it. The weight was tough enough for Marquez anyway, but he was in with a beast.
And I'm not making excuses here because I had always said Marquez was likely to lose, but I cannot accept that this win is one that should go on the totem pole as a massively significant one in Mayweathers career. Everyone thought he would win and he did and he made it more emphatic by coming in 3 weight classes heavier than his opponent. How anyone could think that size was not a contributing factor is beyond me.
Hopefully this will lead to a more meaningful fight. I respect Floyds wins over DLH and Hatton (to a lesser extent), but this I don't care for at all. Especially with the weight carry on, it reflects poorly on Floyd.
I thought Marquez might have done better than he did but what I was most surprised at was how Mayweather couldnt finish him off, theres no way he tried carrying Marquez but after decking him in the second and landing dozens of clean big shots he just couldnt close the show, or even deter Marquez from coming forward.
Its a shame if the Mosely fight does get made at this point in time because Mosely has lost a step as Mayorga proved but a few years ago it would have been a fascinating fight.
WEll said. MAyweather is great and no question about that. His size though was a great contributing factor in his win against MArquez. It was apparent in the fight and for those who won't accept that weight and size is a factor , they can watch it again and see how the punches of Marquez was bouncing off. Mayweather was toying with Marquez because he discovered/knew that MArquez could not hurt him. FACT.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOf course, he wasn't scared to get hit. But Floyd hit hard that night and Marquez had likely never been hit that hard before. And neither was he as easy to hit with carrying all that weight himself. You just had to look at the two of them to see the difference. It was immense!Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyStop trying to insinuate that Marquez was scared to get hit. Someone as much of a warrior as Marquez wasn't scared of Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
He was just gonna get countered whatever he did so he was trying to find a way to hit Mayweather without getting caught with a counter and couldn't find a strategy.
I don't see the point in trying to defend this Mayweather win as meaningful. I liked the comparison Ross made likening it to Mayweather against Kessler. Come fight night there was definitely a huge weight difference between Mayweather and Marquez, and Mayweather did that in a very shady way. There is no excusing it. The weight was tough enough for Marquez anyway, but he was in with a beast.
And I'm not making excuses here because I had always said Marquez was likely to lose, but I cannot accept that this win is one that should go on the totem pole as a massively significant one in Mayweathers career. Everyone thought he would win and he did and he made it more emphatic by coming in 3 weight classes heavier than his opponent. How anyone could think that size was not a contributing factor is beyond me.
Hopefully this will lead to a more meaningful fight. I respect Floyds wins over DLH and Hatton (to a lesser extent), but this I don't care for at all. Especially with the weight carry on, it reflects poorly on Floyd.
Marquez only landed about 60 punches the entire night, so him not being able to hurt mayweather was not a factor as he couldn't even hit him. But Im sure the weight has a lot to do with Mayweather's defensive prowess right? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleeWEll said. MAyweather is great and no question about that. His size though was a great contributing factor in his win against MArquez. It was apparent in the fight and for those who won't accept that weight and size is a factor , they can watch it again and see how the punches of Marquez was bouncing off. Mayweather was toying with Marquez because he discovered/knew that MArquez could not hurt him. FACT.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOf course, he wasn't scared to get hit. But Floyd hit hard that night and Marquez had likely never been hit that hard before. And neither was he as easy to hit with carrying all that weight himself. You just had to look at the two of them to see the difference. It was immense!Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
I don't see the point in trying to defend this Mayweather win as meaningful. I liked the comparison Ross made likening it to Mayweather against Kessler. Come fight night there was definitely a huge weight difference between Mayweather and Marquez, and Mayweather did that in a very shady way. There is no excusing it. The weight was tough enough for Marquez anyway, but he was in with a beast.
And I'm not making excuses here because I had always said Marquez was likely to lose, but I cannot accept that this win is one that should go on the totem pole as a massively significant one in Mayweathers career. Everyone thought he would win and he did and he made it more emphatic by coming in 3 weight classes heavier than his opponent. How anyone could think that size was not a contributing factor is beyond me.
Hopefully this will lead to a more meaningful fight. I respect Floyds wins over DLH and Hatton (to a lesser extent), but this I don't care for at all. Especially with the weight carry on, it reflects poorly on Floyd.
Im a big fan of both fighters and all i can say is that the weight did not play a factor. Mayweather used his reach more then his weight, its not like he leaned on marquez the whole night.
I dont think marquez was scared at all, hes a smart fighter and looks for openings and didnt want to give pbf a chance to get some big counter shots in. Hes not usually the agressor either, so i dont know why everyone seemed to be expecting marquez to come out guns ablazing in the last couple of rounds, its not his style. He wont come out and waste punches, he will try and land them effectively.
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Originally Posted by snakey
You are a fool
If the weight is not such a big deal, throw Mayweather in with Kessler or Abraham and see how effective she is;D
It had EVERYTHING to do with size.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyDude, let it go. The fight would have happened the same way no matter what weight the fight was at. Unless you think Marquez landing 68 punches while landing 59 percent of all his punches on him the entire fight had anything to do with Mayweather's size then by all means take credit from Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I don't know if you watched Marquez Diaz OR Casamayor... But marquez can come forward and reign hell on a guy if he has at least a similar weight differential. Yeah he's a great counterpuncher, but what is he gonna do walking down a giant??Quote:
Originally Posted by snakey
Marquez did give everything he had. He did throw some big shots in the end. But he is not an idiot, right. He knew he needed a knockout, not a bunch of stat building shots.
When mayweather figured out he couldn't take Marquez out in the second round, he was content to just outbox him and keep moving. It was only when PBF opened up that he got hit with big shots.
I am sorry to say, yet again, I cannot give any credit to Floyd. I said it before the fight, and I'll say it after. Floyd may win his next fight against a qualified opponent, but not likely. He'll retire again most likely. Let's say he does fight [Shane, Pwill, Berto, Pac] I have all the congrats in the world waiting for him weather he KOs them or snooze-boxes them for 12 rounds.. At least it would be a fair fight! Shit!