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our boxers too much ? just curious as british boxers tend to get a lot of hate on this forum. i'm not trying to turn this into a britain vs usa thread as i think our countries should stick together. just wondering as Hatton, Froch, Haye, Calzaghe, Khan, eubank and benn get torn to shreds on here.
I can't say I've ever seen Eubank & Benn get torn down on here, they seem to get pretty much universal respect. As for the question, of course Brits hype our boxers too much, we do it with any vaguely talented guy we've got in any sport that we want to be good at (ie one we 'invented'). The England football team since Euro 96 (although that team was fuckin good) is a perfect example of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughesd
It's largely due to our tabloid media being a bunch of vultures desperate for any vague chance to bang on about how we're still the best at something. Usually backfiring like England at the last World Cup, every Wimbledon & Hatton vs Mayweather/Pacquiao.
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Originally Posted by JazMerkinI can't say I've ever seen Eubank & Benn get torn down on here, they seem to get pretty much universal respect. As for the question, of course Brits hype our boxers too much, we do it with any vaguely talented guy we've got in any sport that we want to be good at (ie one we 'invented'). The England football team since Euro 96 (although that team was fuckin good) is a perfect example of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughesd
It's largely due to our tabloid media being a bunch of vultures desperate for any vague chance to bang on about how we're still the best at something. Usually backfiring like England at the last World Cup, every Wimbledon & Hatton vs Mayweather/Pacquiao.
we build them up so we can knock them down
Joe Calzaghe doesnt get a column in the tabloids why? because he was constantly succesful and never lost. Hatton on the other hand is still as popular as ever.
We`ll no doubt spend the next 12months telling the whole world how were going to south africa and bringing home the world cup just so once we inevitably fail we can all have a good moan about what went wrong!!
Not on my end I wish Americans had the same passion as you guys when it comes to our fighters.
all i gotta say is David Haye and Tyson Fury lol
I think its a matter of their just being fewer higher profile guys and crossover success,the hype is narrowed.The number of sports franchises and leauges play a huge factor.Not sure about across the pond but over here Boxing is runner up to nearly all major team sports.America is equally hype central but on a wider scale with a massive turn over rate.Boxing is hype,forums and the sport eat it up.They go hand in hand.Maybe a result of short attention spans and everyone clamoring for the next Sugar-something or p4p best.Yawn.Some do warrant the scrutiny though....Haye....so far as a heavyweight he's beaten a trail horse and backed out of a chance for the Heavyweight championship.I honestly dont think a Valuev win will convince many of his detractors.All the while his mouth has landed more hard shots than his fists.Time will tell.I think he'll be fun while it lasts.Hype and build up can definitely blend into smoke n mirrors.Agree with Jaz as far as Benn and Eubanks go,spoken highly of and some goof on this site actually named his cat after Nigel fifteen yrs ago...nutty f!!!k:-X
I have a bigger problem with all of the hype surrounding Amateurs 'stars' from many nations coming into the pro game and being spoon fed massive amounts of air time and fitted for a title belt before thay even break a sweat against a live body.
I don't think that UK guys do it more than anyone else really. In my short time here there have really been only two guys that have had ridiculous overboard fanboyism: Pacquiao and Hatton. I think we all want the home team to do well and for the most part that's the limit of it, there are a few offenders from the UK, but no more so than the US or anywhere else, I think the only countrymen not guilty of it are the Canadians.
I'm always passionate and support our fighters, but I'm also honest about how good there are and their chances of winning.
I think when people start talking about Haye beating Vitali or that Hatton would beat Mayweather then they probably deserve a bit of grief
in Canada we aren't better when it comes to hype our athletes; For the second largest country in the world, we are more or less only 35 millions, if you consider that we compete against the UK, France, Germany or the US who have a much larger population pool.... result is that at top level, we still have less choice for the athletes, more or less. We had many deceptions that got catapulted by the medias, especially in french part of Canada where many french canadians would like to split up from the rest of Canada, when a french canadian athlete performs (or a kind of "adopted" athlete here), they will talk about him relentlessly in the medias.
One of our very good example was Stephane Ouellet. The guy had genuine and pure talent, apparently he even gave Roy Jones JR much trouble in sparring at some point. He did spare with Jones, did he really gave him THAT much trouble sparring? We can imagine that the truth is He was described as our next big thing. Well, he collapsed but like big time... and in a very shameful way.
Same thing with Leonard Dorin: the guy has tons of talent, got a draw where he should have won (in my opinion) against Paul Spadafora but the one of the good ol, days, he's been champion and they were thinking of making a showdown against mayweather because he had "much" chances to beat him. Next time you learn, he has a fight with Gatti, one power shot in the liver and the lights were out. the guy had talent, nobody denies it, but he was almost considered as the future big thing in boxing... And I must admit that at some point, I kind of was too in the bandwagon thinking he was "the" deal around his weight category.
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Originally Posted by Hughesd
I think it seems like hype because there are less people to choose from.
In some cases YES in other cases not so much. David Haye has been hyped up beyond belief and none of the Brits ever even consider the FACT there have been very few (really just ONE) guys who moved from cruiserweight to heavyweight and been successful....but I bring that up and everyone says "Well Evander Holyfield did it!" and I tell you David Haye is no Evander Holyfield!
I agree that at times us Brits hype up our boxers a but thats not a bad thing is it?
At least the public in the UK still care about boxing.
p.s. anybody remember the hype around jeff lacy when he came to the UK to fight Calzaghe;D
Jeff Lacy is like our Ricky Hatton ;)
lol... lyle, if the UK went overboard with Ricky Hatton then the US put on concrete shoes and wrapped chains around itself before diving into the atlantic over Jeff lacy... ;) :)
Of course I exagerated, but Jeff Lacy was an OK fighter, I think he could have done very well had he not gotten injured.....what's Ricky's excuse?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Too many beers.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOf course I exagerated, but Jeff Lacy was an OK fighter, I think he could have done very well had he not gotten injured.....what's Ricky's excuse?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogToo many beers.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOf course I exagerated, but Jeff Lacy was an OK fighter, I think he could have done very well had he not gotten injured.....what's Ricky's excuse?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
comparing hatton to lacy :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Hatton got beat by the 2 best fighters of the last 15 years. Lacy got beat by jermain taylor
:lol:
Love the man or hate him ricky still deserves to be remembered as a great fighter and he`ll go down in boxing folklore for years to come not just for his succeses in the ring but the fanbase and acceptance no other fighter has ever received outside the ring.
Is their a single other fighter in boxing history that has managed to cross continents with an army of 35 thousand fans at his side willing to roar him on to victory??
I actually think had Lacy been brought along at a more sensible pace he could've gone far. I really believe that Calzaghe ruined him and I said at the end of that fight, that's it for Lacy, noway he recovers from that. Calzaghe had been a World Chapion for 4 years before Lacy was even a pro. The Lacy that fought Robin Reid is not the Lacy of today - Shame!Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOf course I exagerated, but Jeff Lacy was an OK fighter, I think he could have done very well had he not gotten injured.....what's Ricky's excuse?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Both sides of the Atlantic are prone to building up fighters too easily IMO. I don't think it is neccessarily a British thing.
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Originally Posted by BIG HI actually think had Lacy been brought along at a more sensible pace he could've gone far. I really believe that Calzaghe ruined him and I said at the end of that fight, that's it for Lacy, noway he recovers from that. Calzaghe had been a World Chapion for 4 years before Lacy was even a pro. The Lacy that fought Robin Reid is not the Lacy of today - Shame!Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOf course I exagerated, but Jeff Lacy was an OK fighter, I think he could have done very well had he not gotten injured.....what's Ricky's excuse?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
1st time i ever saw jeff lacy fight was against reid as i seem to remember it getting a repeat on sky sports a week later. Came away that night thinking lacy was indeed the real deal and more than capable of handling calzaghe as reid was a top top fighter at the time who had run JC closer than anyone else had.
But a combination of lacy completely underestimating some chump from the UK he`d never heard of and calzaghe beggining to show us his status as an all time great he indeed took an absoloute peltering that night and for the life of me cant understand why it was allowed to go the full 12.
Had it of been a 5round massacre, lacy would of been able to rebuild and start again having learnt a harsh lesson. But as youve already said nobody recovers from a beating that he took that night at the hands of JC
We I must just be a bandwagoner, b/c I like all fighters who come to fight. Especially if they have a certain weakness that can be exposed that they cover up with heart and valor.
Joe Cal was not a big puncher - made up for it in volume
Hatton had no defense - used endless amounts of offense
David Haye is a somewhat sloppy fighter leaving his chin out - makes up for it by throwing "meaningful" shots
Last british fighter I didn't like was Lennox Lewis. I thought he was Klitchko-esque... i.e. a b***h. He never dug deep until Vitali (oddly enough) But it had nothing to do with him being British.
And, for the life of me, I can't figure out why I hate Amir Khan. He fought like a weanie against Kotelnik.. And aside from Prescott, that's the only fight I've seen. I do respect that he is taking a slightly faster road to World Champ than the guys who want to pad their record at least.
I don't think so. My only beef was with how much Haye get's hyped up for fighting two oppenents in the heavyweight division and get's nothing but praise. I don't get that too much. But as for the other's these were and are boxers I always had alot of respect for. Except maybe Hatton I always thought he was very limited but I do like the guy.
It's kind of ironic that Brits get accused of overhyping fighters considering In Britain, in the media at least, America is seen as the heavyweight champs of overhyping everything.
It's all bullshit.
Certain fighters get overhyped no matter where they are from.
Take Carl Froch. Lots of posters have called him an "overhyped Brit," and yet the only two diehard fans, amongst the regulars, before he beat Pascal/Taylor, were Tam and Smashup. Almost every other regular Brit poster voiced concerns about his shitty defence, among other things, stopping him at world-level.
Not before a fight--maybe a tad during, however. But I like the singing. That's some scary shite.
calzaghe gets no columns because compared to hatton & most others he has the personality of a worm - and he really does imo lol, i love watching him fight and he has the heart and guts of a lion! but listning to the things he says is more than a tad boring!
Who in turn beat one of the greatest Middleweights of all time twice in his own weight class. Your point being? Lacy has only lost to Calzaghe, Taylor, and Roy Jones Jr. Two hall of famers and one guy who beat a Hall Of Famer and the greatest in his weight division(or top three) twice and he lost to Taylor and Roy after his shoulder injury and he never looked the same since that injury either. Hattons excuse is what? The ring post ruined him?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogToo many beers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
comparing hatton to lacy :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Hatton got beat by the 2 best fighters of the last 15 years. Lacy got beat by jermain taylor
:lol:
So I don't see what you're getting at ;)
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
I dont really like Khan but i like watching his fights dont care if he wins but anything can happen with him he can look classy but he can get caught and knocked down.
Erm, i'm not sure Hatton needs to make excuses for his 4 'world' titles. So he wasn't the best fighter in the world. but i don't think anyone really ever thought he was. People thought he was damn good...and he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyWho in turn beat one of the greatest Middleweights of all time twice in his own weight class. Your point being? Lacy has only lost to Calzaghe, Taylor, and Roy Jones Jr. Two hall of famers and one guy who beat a Hall Of Famer and the greatest in his weight division(or top three) twice and he lost to Taylor and Roy after his shoulder injury and he never looked the same since that injury either. Hattons excuse is what? The ring post ruined him?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
comparing hatton to lacy :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Hatton got beat by the 2 best fighters of the last 15 years. Lacy got beat by jermain taylor
:lol:
So I don't see what you're getting at ;)
The reality is that the majority of the British public would say we are shit at sport. The general attitute is far too negative.
A few stats -
The most f1 drivers titles of any nation,
Football team ranked 7th (of 218)
Rugby team that has reached last two world cup finals
Numerous boxing world champs
4th in medal table at Olympics.
Cricket team that has won 2 of the last 3 Ashes.
By far the dominant force in track cycling.
Not to mention the world beaters we have in squash, triathlon, darts, snooker, swimming etc etc.
I'm not saying Britian is the most successful sporting nation, but we are far better than the miserable, negative British public would say.
For example, Australia are our main sporting rivals, now if you asked the british public who was the better sporting nation id say 80% would say Australia. Yet we have beat them in last two rugby world cups, beat them in 2 of last 3 Ashes, beat them at 2008 Olympics. (im not mentioning football here as they don't reallt take it seriously). I could list loads of sports that the British beat them at, yet the only sports you could make a case for them are rugby, cricket and swimming. Ive already shown how the first two are debateable, so that leaves swimming. And we can give them that.
....until he fought someone world class and dangerous and then he got "ruined". So we're back to square one, only in Hatton's comeback, he didn't get injured so he didn't end up like Jeff Lacy
That should read 2 1 8. not 21smiley face with glasses.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Some shit sports you mentioned mate, Darts, Snooker and Squash?? How many countires take them sports seriously, we did win the ashes but we also lost the last ashes in Australia 5-0 and we were just embarrased 6-1 in the one day internationals and made to look silly in the ICC event by the Australians again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Also Australias population is over a third less than the Uk.
We are decent at some sports but we should be with the amount of inferstructure we have in place, in reality we are a disgrace if you look at the bigger picture, lets take Tennis for instance we have 1 player in the top 100, where as other nations who again are smaller in poulation have 5+players in the top 100 and all these nations work on a budget which is much less than a quater that we invest to produce champions, the same with cycling I would say that is the main sport where we are getting out results that the amount of money invested should do.
But like I say overall we underachieve in most sports when you consider the amount of money we invest.
Yea i just threw them in as other examples. I'd say we do pretty well at all the sports we take seriously, and do well in quite a few that we don't. I used Australia as a comparison partly because they are are main sporting rivals and also because most of the British public would say they are better, but the facts don't really support that. Given our population we should be better than them for sure, and id say we are. As for the cricket when it comes to England-Australia the Ashes is everything. They would swap their ODI wins for the Ashes 100 times out of 100. I agree with you on the tennis one - British tennis has been a disgrace for a long time. But then again you could say that there are only two nations with a male player ranked higher than us.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Some shit sports you mentioned mate, Darts, Snooker and Squash?? How many countires take them sports seriously, we did win the ashes but we also lost the last ashes in Australia 5-0 and we were just embarrased 6-1 in the one day internationals and made to look silly in the ICC event by the Australians again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Also Australias population is over a third less than the Uk.
We are decent at some sports but we should be with the amount of inferstructure we have in place, in reality we are a disgrace if you look at the bigger picture, lets take Tennis for instance we have 1 player in the top 100, where as other nations who again are smaller in poulation have 5+players in the top 100 and all these nations work on a budget which is much less than a quater that we invest to produce champions, the same with cycling I would say that is the main sport where we are getting out results that the amount of money invested should do.
But like I say overall we underachieve in most sports when you consider the amount of money we invest.
I respect that Froch has a chin to take a lot of the stuff that his shitty defence allow through, but I'm still voicing the doubts! Fair play, he's done well for himself, but the fact is if someone's guilty of hyping him it's more likely to be Americans than us....we won't even give him a tv deal!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I doubt we take Tennis very seriously. I grew up in the north east of England, and didnt know a single person who played tennis outside of PE lessons in school. I couldnt even tell you if there is even a tennis club in Northumberland, Tyne and Wear or Durham, and thats a hell of a big area.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Some shit sports you mentioned mate, Darts, Snooker and Squash?? How many countires take them sports seriously, we did win the ashes but we also lost the last ashes in Australia 5-0 and we were just embarrased 6-1 in the one day internationals and made to look silly in the ICC event by the Australians again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Also Australias population is over a third less than the Uk.
We are decent at some sports but we should be with the amount of inferstructure we have in place, in reality we are a disgrace if you look at the bigger picture, lets take Tennis for instance we have 1 player in the top 100, where as other nations who again are smaller in poulation have 5+players in the top 100 and all these nations work on a budget which is much less than a quater that we invest to produce champions, the same with cycling I would say that is the main sport where we are getting out results that the amount of money invested should do.
But like I say overall we underachieve in most sports when you consider the amount of money we invest.
Every country hypes up their fighters. I think it's natural. I kind of enjoy some british fighters. I'm preferential to action fighters of any country.
Trust me mate Tennis is one of the biggest invested sports in the country, meaning one of the biggest waste of money the government invests.Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcompanyI doubt we take Tennis very seriously. I grew up in the north east of England, and didnt know a single person who played tennis outside of PE lessons in school. I couldnt even tell you if there is even a tennis club in Northumberland, Tyne and Wear or Durham, and thats a hell of a big area.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Some shit sports you mentioned mate, Darts, Snooker and Squash?? How many countires take them sports seriously, we did win the ashes but we also lost the last ashes in Australia 5-0 and we were just embarrased 6-1 in the one day internationals and made to look silly in the ICC event by the Australians again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Also Australias population is over a third less than the Uk.
We are decent at some sports but we should be with the amount of inferstructure we have in place, in reality we are a disgrace if you look at the bigger picture, lets take Tennis for instance we have 1 player in the top 100, where as other nations who again are smaller in poulation have 5+players in the top 100 and all these nations work on a budget which is much less than a quater that we invest to produce champions, the same with cycling I would say that is the main sport where we are getting out results that the amount of money invested should do.
But like I say overall we underachieve in most sports when you consider the amount of money we invest.
not read all this thread as at work - and unfortunately have stuff to do !
But personally I don't overhype our fighters and like Big H admit when they have their shortcomings. The only exception I made to this was when I went over to Hatton v PBF. When the fight was announced I gave Hatton 25% chance of winning but got carried away in the hype and started saying how he was going to take Floyd - to this day I don't know what came over me and apologize !
I like Haye but think Vitali and Wlad would destroy him (though he has a chance if he lands on Wlad). I always knew Benn was one punch from defeat - what did US fans make of Benn ? Never really knew.
And Naz - I picked Barrera and knew he wasnt as good as he thought
And also Brit fighters aren't always backed by a majority of their countrymen eg Eubank (early 90s), Naz, Audley and currently Khan.
On saying all that Tyson Fury is a god and the most ferocious fighter I have ever seen - he is going to easily hammer all non-British opponents he will ever face. Fact !
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Originally Posted by cpcompanyI doubt we take Tennis very seriously. I grew up in the north east of England, and didnt know a single person who played tennis outside of PE lessons in school. I couldnt even tell you if there is even a tennis club in Northumberland, Tyne and Wear or Durham, and thats a hell of a big area.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Some shit sports you mentioned mate, Darts, Snooker and Squash?? How many countires take them sports seriously, we did win the ashes but we also lost the last ashes in Australia 5-0 and we were just embarrased 6-1 in the one day internationals and made to look silly in the ICC event by the Australians again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Also Australias population is over a third less than the Uk.
We are decent at some sports but we should be with the amount of inferstructure we have in place, in reality we are a disgrace if you look at the bigger picture, lets take Tennis for instance we have 1 player in the top 100, where as other nations who again are smaller in poulation have 5+players in the top 100 and all these nations work on a budget which is much less than a quater that we invest to produce champions, the same with cycling I would say that is the main sport where we are getting out results that the amount of money invested should do.
But like I say overall we underachieve in most sports when you consider the amount of money we invest.
The problem is that it's a posh man's sport. There's probably some kid sat in his bedroom in cowgate or byker right now who has the potential to be a world class tennis player... Because he din't go to Royal Grammar School etc or have rich mummy and daddy pay from him to join a toff's club in Jesmond - he'll never have it developed.
I never even played Tennis in School... :rolleyes:
As far as I am aware there are clubs in the North East, but unless your name is gerald and you're an executive for P&G you won't know about them.
Yeah well some are hyped up more then they probably should be but people always forget the context of the time. Like Big H mentioned, Lacy from Calzaghe on isn't entirely representative of who he was. He lost it through injuries, for whatever reason (he said he had a personal matter, IDK) he bottled it and has looked like shit since.
People rag on OumaFan for his name and think wow what a mediocre fighter but there was a time where people picked Ouma to potentially beat everyone else at 154. Before he got upset BIG TIME by Karmazin, he was a guy people thought might be THE MAN at 154. Of course we all know he didn't have that longevity but it just frustrates me that people will read Boxrecs of Ouma and Lacy and just not be able to see the overnight (months) shift into just a different (shot) fighter.
Hattonthehammer, again you just befuddle me with your statements. Can we add a fact checker to the board? Lacy DEFINITELY knew who Calzaghe was. Do you even remember the buildup to that one? The night he beat Reid, he called out Joe Calzaghe immediately afterward. In fact it was after that fight that they signed to fight but Calzaghe insisted on going through with the Evans Ashira (a ridiculous opponent) fight and broke his right hand which forced him out of the fight. Lacy was pissed and said he would never sign to fight in England again and a lot of us (me included) were sure that the fight would never come to fruition due to Calzaghe never fighting outside of his country. He DEFINITELY knew who Calzaghe was and this was a HUGE fight, you just must have missed that.
As for Brits hyping there fighters, yeah they do it but it makes sense. Of course Brits are going to talk about the fighters that they actually see, it's just that the rest of the world has a perpentuancy to write you guys off as irrelevant. Too much, I'm not sure. More then anyone else, definitely. Had Andre Ward or Andre Dirrell turned pro in 2004 in England rather then America then they would have been shoved down our throats from day 1. How much has come up about Khan in the time these guys have been pro?
As it is, they came up in America and are just now getting serious play from the boxing community. I prefer it here, I think a boxer should be able to disappear in his own backyard if he needs to. Being a prized amateur turning pro in England is a very rough assignment, kind of like playing beside Jeter in the Yankee infield. You're kind of in a lose-lose situation because you are going to endure growing pains in the ring no matter who you are as a professional so it's nice that guys like Ward and Dirrell have been able to lay low. In Ward's case, that was a huge deal for his management team who wanted him to only worry about boxing and his family with no outside distractions. In the case of someone like Amir Khan or, more tragically, Darren Sutherland it really is a lose-lose situation.
I personally think it's great that you guys came out in such numbers for Hatton, probably a bit disillusioned if you thought Hatton would take it but whatever.