http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96YLZFbrMms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTsW75KJXO4
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First time I've seen that Lyle. I missed the show the other night.Benn all over the news thoughbut they arent showing the footage.
I think people black and white that want to continue interracial troubles will see it how they will to suit their cause. Without friction they havent a cause so they will find it and point it out where ever they can.
Others will innocently see a comedy routine.
I suppose some other people may see it as taking the piss out of Michael wanting to become white ??? So what's that, a catch 22 for some?
Theres no accounting for others taste, Im undecided at the moment if its an overreaction by the wounded that cant move on or if its really is an offence.
I dont get all the fuss, in all honesty we dont think like you do, if some of our Aboriginals put on white paint and pinstriped suits danced around as Mick Jagger and the Rolling stoned, we would all be on the floor laughing right along with them, I dont belive there would be one white person in Australia to pull the race card in the reverse situation.
Its not even a conversation topic out here amoungst people who are busy doing real things it is just what it is. My wife and I just got off the phone to an Aboriginal mate and his wife not 20 minuites ago over an athletics meeting we are running tomorrow and the conversation was about so many other things including the aboriginal name for God ,Sharnis utube site,what rofl stands for,everything, and yet we never even broached this at all, it just didnt enter our minds.
In many ways Oz hasn't been touched by the polical correctness that has driven the UK to madness, in this case however I found this pretty offensive. It is something that is outdated no matter what the excuse (in this case a return of a group from 20 years ago)
I couldn't believe it when I came here that you can still buy golliwog dolls in the shops.:o
I get what you're saying, but what offends people with blackface is that its so simplistic. They basically just black up to look like a stereotypical black image, something to be laughed at. In the US or UK, that just wouldn't be on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I know their intent was in humour, so I'm not saying they should be jailed or anything like that, but a TV show should know better. I mean it was kinda funny for a bit, but the show should still know better, I know Aussies take things less seriously so it's less of an issue there. I think Americans & Brits, both black & white, just object to seeing black people being portrayed as 'buffoons', we've moved on from that. The same thing annoys me when I see a white geeky guy in a rap video doing some 'hood' dancing, because I don't feel some stereotype should make him a laughing stock.
In fact, basically everything Harry Connick Jr said.
I agree with some of what you are saying but how different is this from Bo Selector's Michael Jackson show on Channel 4 a week or so agoQuote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI get what you're saying, but what offends people with blackface is that its so simplistic. They basically just black up to look like a stereotypical black image, something to be laughed at. In the US or UK, that just wouldn't be on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I know their intent was in humour, so I'm not saying they should be jailed or anything like that, but a TV show should know better. I mean it was kinda funny for a bit, but the show should still know better, I know Aussies take things less seriously so it's less of an issue there. I think Americans & Brits, both black & white, just object to seeing black people being portrayed as 'buffoons', we've moved on from that. The same thing annoys me when I see a white geeky guy in a rap video doing some 'hood' dancing, because I don't feel some stereotype should make him a laughing stock.
In fact, basically everything Harry Connick Jr said.
apart from being funnier than the Aussie version they are both white blokes blacking up for a comedy routine
I thought this was really funny never even thought about a race issueHTML Code:http://www.channel4.com/programmes/chamone-mofo-selecta/4od#2971185
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/a...82_887046a.jpg
http://www.thefixonline.com/blog/wp-.../boselecta.jpg
I think the difference is how he did it. He's come up with a particular set of characters who all have rubber masks & the MJ character is just one. Also the clearest difference is he is mocking to Jackson the man, rather than Jackson as a black man. I don't personally don't find it that funny, not because of any race issue but I just don't think its particularly well written comedy. But, he does the same to Craig David, Mel B, Elton John & Kelly Osbourne. The basic comedy of his show comes from how inept & unrealistic of the real person his characters are (got that from wikipedia) ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by sonny78
There's a big difference between that & people blacking up for laughs
Yeah I understand that. Theres a few different levels of how one could take it going on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI get what you're saying, but what offends people with blackface is that its so simplistic. They basically just black up to look like a stereotypical black image, something to be laughed at. In the US or UK, that just wouldn't be on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I know their intent was in humour, so I'm not saying they should be jailed or anything like that, but a TV show should know better. I mean it was kinda funny for a bit, but the show should still know better, I know Aussies take things less seriously so it's less of an issue there. I think Americans & Brits, both black & white, just object to seeing black people being portrayed as 'buffoons', we've moved on from that. The same thing annoys me when I see a white geeky guy in a rap video doing some 'hood' dancing, because I don't feel some stereotype should make him a laughing stock.
In fact, basically everything Harry Connick Jr said.
With Michael only just passing away,some others,specially his avid fans will be offended for that reason too.
I agree it needs to be corrected and yet the odd ones (whether they are white or black skinned) who seek to get the most friction from it all probably need to have a good look within too.
So in America if say two black actors had painted themselves white and done the film dum and dummer exactly as it was portrayed would the white community (other than the kkk or fascists) kick up about it?
Im just wondering if it works both ways over there.
you must have missed this Hollywood gemQuote:
Originally Posted by AndreYeah I understand that. Theres a few different levels of how one could take it going on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI get what you're saying, but what offends people with blackface is that its so simplistic. They basically just black up to look like a stereotypical black image, something to be laughed at. In the US or UK, that just wouldn't be on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I know their intent was in humour, so I'm not saying they should be jailed or anything like that, but a TV show should know better. I mean it was kinda funny for a bit, but the show should still know better, I know Aussies take things less seriously so it's less of an issue there. I think Americans & Brits, both black & white, just object to seeing black people being portrayed as 'buffoons', we've moved on from that. The same thing annoys me when I see a white geeky guy in a rap video doing some 'hood' dancing, because I don't feel some stereotype should make him a laughing stock.
In fact, basically everything Harry Connick Jr said.
With Michael only just passing away,some others,specially his avid fans will be offended for that reason too.
I agree it needs to be corrected and yet the odd ones (whether they are white or black skinned) who seek to get the most friction from it all probably need to have a good look within too.
So in America if say two black actors had painted themselves white and done the film dum and dummer exactly as it was portrayed would the white community (other than the kkk or fascists) kick up about it?
Im just wondering if it works both ways over there.
http://www.starzlife.com/wp-content/...ite_chicks.jpg
White blonde girls !
:smilie_whisper: I think the whole world has already agreed its open slather on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny78you must have missed this Hollywood gemQuote:
Originally Posted by AndreYeah I understand that. Theres a few different levels of how one could take it going on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
With Michael only just passing away,some others,specially his avid fans will be offended for that reason too.
I agree it needs to be corrected and yet the odd ones (whether they are white or black skinned) who seek to get the most friction from it all probably need to have a good look within too.
So in America if say two black actors had painted themselves white and done the film dum and dummer exactly as it was portrayed would the white community (other than the kkk or fascists) kick up about it?
Im just wondering if it works both ways over there.
http://www.starzlife.com/wp-content/...ite_chicks.jpg
This would never pass in any other country, in america a black man can publically mock the white race on stage yet if reversed the entire nation is in uproar.
Chris Rock bases most of his show around criticising white people and not a word is ever said. The guy is obsessed with this whole white-black divide yet instead of bringing up some decent issues chooses to mock the other race for fun.
If i was a black person watching that aussie sketch i would be offended. No it wasnt a direct attack at a certain group of people (unlike rocks material) but more a joke about jackson himself which somehow sensors allowed to pass despite the fact it was inadverted racism.
Where bo-selecta is concerned. The jackson skit passes every time because funny enough there arent a hell of a lot of african-americans living in the uk. But how about this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdAuPOJMGPs
Now if that jackson skits offensive to afro-americans surely the british afro-carribean community should find this upsetting??
To me and to a lot of people for a long time, Rasicm meant discrimination against, or deliberately offending someone based on the color of their skin or where the originated...
Now a joke can't even be told without someone being offended...
I get why people GET offended.. Because they have deep seated beliefs and values which is like a box with a round whole, and comedy based on colour is a square block that just won't fit into it....
As long as someone out there believes that there is no such thing as a joke about skin color, only offensive intentions, then someone will get offended...
I personally feel it's about intention, and about who it's intended for...
If my mum died of cancer and someone knowing that, told a joke about cancer in front of me.. Regardless of intentions, that joke would be entirely wrong to tell.... Because they should know it's a raw subject with me..
If my mum died of cancer but they DIDN'T know, then it would then depend on their intentions.. If they intended it to be rude towards cancer people, then they are in the wrong.. If they just intended it to be light hearted and inoffensive, then I would feel it's okay for them to do that because they did not know I had a personal issue with this...
That tv skit, they were people who did NOT have bad intentions with it.. And their intended audience was people who they would have honestly felt would understand their intentions and also not let it hit a raw nerve in them...
OF COURSE there probably isn't a joke in the world that won't offend at least someone! But in the end you just HAVE to look at someone's intentions and that's gotta be it... If Chris Rock is cracking jokes about white folk in good spirit, then no one should be offended.. If he actually hates whites people, and is cracking jokes to encourage more divide and for others to dislike white people, then he should be considered to be acting poorly...
I'm able to look at the bigger picture though in regards to these things.. I've had people say horrible things to be in a good natured way and that's how I will take them.. Then I have had people say mundane things to me, but they meant them maliciously and I took offence...
If that is not the key to how you judge something, then you're going to find it difficult to judge anything, because it means your judging it by a bunch of socially programmed rules and values, and not your internal value of whether you feel someone is decent or not...
You may say those people were a bit thoughtless to not consider that there will be people out there who will be offended, but every comedian on earth probably has 90% of their routine which would offend someone...
Half will consider it fine, half will say it tips the line.... But are they judging it because of what we've socially learnt to be wrong or racist, or judging based on how we judge everything else. Through our own personal value of what is good or bad..
I don't care who it is or what the subject matter is..
If someone does something with fair intentions, fully believing their audience will take it the same light hearted way that they mean it, then i'm always going to cut them some slack......
IF there was one person hiding up the back who personally took offense though, that wouldn't make me change my opinion of the original performance..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizaster
agree completely, political corectness gone completely mad
Its the same left wing liberals moaning over this as the ones that pretty moan about everything from migration to birth control.
It was meant in jest therefore should be taken in gest
i was merely pointing out that its one rule for one group of people and another for others
If a black person finds this offensive fair enough. The white chicks thing i found offensive. But when its idiots like connick jr who are doing it merely to further their tarnished career its just pathetic!
Intention,,,,,
and belief of how you genuinely feel it will be received...
That's how I judge the the level of maliciouness of ANY subject... Colour/Racism related or otherwise..
For some though, it will always just be, if it's a white person doing anything to do with black colour skin.. It's racist, it's offensive.. instantly.. Not to say that's a wrong way to look at it.. If they are offended they are offended... Just feel that such ways of looking at things will mean the topic of racism and divide will never ever go away...
Just you wait until Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson get ahold of this :vd:
I think as long as it isn't done with malice blackface is ok (see Gene Wilder in Silver Streak and Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder)...the odd thing is some people get by with it and some people get called out for stuff that isn't racist at all, like Don Imus who in the past probably said racist stuff but the Rutgers incident and the PacMan Jones incident weren't racist.
These guys in Australia are doing the old blackface stuff and that is really pushing the envelope, but it's not like they have an Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson there to tell them what is and what isn't racist
It's odd that there are people who think Disney's Song of The South is racist along with The Amos 'N Andy TV Show....neither are racist, maybe Song of the South is historically inaccurate but it's a fucking FICTIONAL Disney movie.
Fucking great post, as a world we are going down a slippery slope where genuine free thought process is replaced by flawed logic based on some false black/white, no grey area allowed, algorithm. It started in the so called justice systems where only the facts are considered (which does make sens as it would make it even more biased towrdas good liars otherwise), and it's now seeping into all walks of life where people are'nt trusted to be competent and are reduced to box ticking when doing there jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizaster
Bit confused Hammer im no Chris Rock expert but I have seen some of his material and he takes the piss out of white and black.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by sonny78you must have missed this Hollywood gemQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre
http://www.starzlife.com/wp-content/...ite_chicks.jpg
This would never pass in any other country, in america a black man can publically mock the white race on stage yet if reversed the entire nation is in uproar.
Chris Rock bases most of his show around criticising white people and not a word is ever said. The guy is obsessed with this whole white-black divide yet instead of bringing up some decent issues chooses to mock the other race for fun.
If i was a black person watching that aussie sketch i would be offended. No it wasnt a direct attack at a certain group of people (unlike rocks material) but more a joke about jackson himself which somehow sensors allowed to pass despite the fact it was inadverted racism.
Where bo-selecta is concerned. The jackson skit passes every time because funny enough there arent a hell of a lot of african-americans living in the uk. But how about this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdAuPOJMGPs
Now if that jackson skits offensive to afro-americans surely the british afro-carribean community should find this upsetting??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7HHB...eature=related
If that skit offends you, you have no real problems in this world. I'm more offended that Darryl Sommers was allowed to be back on tv again :shakehead:
As a TV show you should know the connotations come with blackface.
But I find HattonHammers posts once again startling. When I think about Chris Rock stand up the first thing that comes in my mind is him talking about black people shooting up movie theaters.
Once again, Hattonhammer draws the exact wrong conclusions from something. Chris Rock has upset white people in the past but he gets away with saying thigs because he has great crossover appeal too because he can joke about everyone.
...I disagree, Chris Rock gets away with saying what he says about blacks because he is black. That being said he's never taken to task for what he says about white people.
Mike Birbiglia really took the piss out of Rock's act.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRK5rU1ZPJc