What is wrong with people today?

Why is moving around intelligently nowadays always considered running? Is it foolish for a guy like Haye, who is known to have a weak chin to move away from a much larger opponent and not allow them to get off? Its just so frustrating to constantly hear about how these guys are constantly running when some of the most liked and famous boxers in the sports' history (Ali, Leonard, Roy Jones Jr) made some of the most boring fights imaginable with a lot more movement than guys get criticized for nowadays. Back then it was called skill and ring generalship, but today its called running. If you are in a ring even if its 24x24, if you were fighting a nobody, it doesn't matter how fast they are you could track them down if you had any modicum of skill. It isn't just speed and movement that is the reason why guys like MAyweather, Dirrell, Wladimir, Vitali, Haye today were so elusive. A lot of it has to do with skill. I think maybe its people who have never boxed, but maybe you should go into a gym, find a guy who is even relatively good, and try keeping away from him.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Why is moving around intelligently nowadays always considered running? Is it foolish for a guy like Haye, who is known to have a weak chin to move away from a much larger opponent and not allow them to get off? Its just so frustrating to constantly hear about how these guys are constantly running when some of the most liked and famous boxers in the sports' history (Ali, Leonard, Roy Jones Jr) made some of the most boring fights imaginable with a lot more movement than guys get criticized for nowadays. Back then it was called skill and ring generalship, but today its called running. If you are in a ring even if its 24x24, if you were fighting a nobody, it doesn't matter how fast they are you could track them down if you had any modicum of skill. It isn't just speed and movement that is the reason why guys like MAyweather, Dirrell, Wladimir, Vitali, Haye today were so elusive. A lot of it has to do with skill. I think maybe its people who have never boxed, but maybe you should go into a gym, find a guy who is even relatively good, and try keeping away from him.

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Exactly, Haye boxed to a plan and used SKILL to make a slower less talented, but far bigger opponent constantly miss, and it worked. Haye is known for his exciting style and the first time he change's and show's his true boxing pedigree people jump all over him saying how bad he was.

I was personally expecting more from Haye, but he got it tactically right and took the decision. I would be interested to see what would happen in a rematch though, Haye hurt Valuev at the end and I think he knows now he has the power to KO him. I don't WANT to see it though. If Valuev fights for a title again I hope it's against Wlad Klitschko, I don't think for one minute that Wlad would struggle but I would be interested in how he would yake to fighting someone so much bigger than himself.

Spot on, haye was only hyping the fight, he knew how bad it would have turned out to go head to head with a giant like that when he has a suspect chin . I think people watch too much Rocky and believe the hype of a fighter.

This wasn't a great fight but Haye did what he had to and that was an intelligient way to go about things on the night, after all the basic premise is to hit and not be hit right.

Yep, I pretty much thought that was the point too.

I have the same question. I love when a fighter who is said to have ran the whole fight ends up out landed his opponent. So

i think Haye did what he has to do.. he fought an intelligent fight.. He is brave but not stupid..

I think the problem with Haye was more that the way he was running his mouth led people to expect a certain type of performance from him. On the other hand, there are always going to be those boxing fans who just want to see an out and out brawl and will complain when that doesn't materialize. I don't understand that mentality, but it is prevalent

When someone talks as much crap as Haye about how he is going to fight toe to toe, claims he has a crowd pleasing style and is going to destroy his opponent you cant fault people for being disappointed when he plays the hit and run game.........

If you are going to talk the talk you have to walk the walk and Haye didnt so people will trash him and Haye deserves it........

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Originally Posted by CFH

I think the problem with Haye was more that the way he was running his mouth led people to expect a certain type of performance from him. On the other hand, there are always going to be those boxing fans who just want to see an out and out brawl and will complain when that doesn't materialize. I don't understand that mentality, but it is prevalent

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I like a fight to be entertaining. Look at todays fights.

Haye/Valuev was boring
Angulo/the Pavlik lookalike was exciting.
Dawson/Johnson had its moments, but was on the whole tedious.

More people are always going to be drawn to the likes of Tyson than Lewis. Angulo is such a fun little fighter, he is my man of the day.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by CFH

I think the problem with Haye was more that the way he was running his mouth led people to expect a certain type of performance from him. On the other hand, there are always going to be those boxing fans who just want to see an out and out brawl and will complain when that doesn't materialize. I don't understand that mentality, but it is prevalent

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I like a fight to be entertaining. Look at todays fights.

Haye/Valuev was boring
Angulo/the Pavlik lookalike was exciting.
Dawson/Johnson had its moments, but was on the whole tedious.

More people are always going to be drawn to the likes of Tyson than Lewis. Angulo is such a fun little fighter, he is my man of the day.

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Just wait until next week.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by CFH

I think the problem with Haye was more that the way he was running his mouth led people to expect a certain type of performance from him. On the other hand, there are always going to be those boxing fans who just want to see an out and out brawl and will complain when that doesn't materialize. I don't understand that mentality, but it is prevalent

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I like a fight to be entertaining. Look at todays fights.

Haye/Valuev was boring
Angulo/the Pavlik lookalike was exciting.
Dawson/Johnson had its moments, but was on the whole tedious.

More people are always going to be drawn to the likes of Tyson than Lewis. Angulo is such a fun little fighter, he is my man of the day.

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Just wait until next week.

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Yes, should be excellent. Two fighters with excellent skills and who are not afraid to try and land hard blows. Can't wait!

did 24/7 air ttoday? I forgot to DVR Johnson-Dawson I am very disappointed.

I understand peoples reactions, because of the nature of Hayes hype, but there really isa lot more to boxing imo then slugfests. I tried to watch this fght and fell asleep, like 6 times hahaha (more cuz i was really tired), but as a rule, enjoy watching a fight where good defence is a part of.

To each their own I spose. Prob. try and rewatch this fight tomorrow and get a better idea.

I have jumped on fighters who have 'ran' (Mayweather v.s Baldomir) in the past, but feel just a little jusified in my (possible) contradiction/ hypocracy for the fact that the weight and hight difference was far less there than in the Haye Valuev fight.
Here, i'd gladly say that i doubt a 6ft 3 former cruiserweight could win any other way.

Also i have to say... I find solace in the fact that Haye followed the apparent blue print to beat Valuev (movement), and probably did it with the most discipline, WITHOUT ANY BITCHING OR SPOILING and beat him by the biggest margin.

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Originally Posted by Hunter

When someone talks as much crap as Haye about how he is going to fight toe to toe, claims he has a crowd pleasing style and is going to destroy his opponent you cant fault people for being disappointed when he plays the hit and run game.........

If you are going to talk the talk you have to walk the walk and Haye didnt so people will trash him and Haye deserves it........

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Doesnt Mayweather say every fight he will ko and destroy his opponents?

Baldomir springs to mind. Come to think of it dont most fighters?

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Originally Posted by CFH

I think the problem with Haye was more that the way he was running his mouth led people to expect a certain type of performance from him.

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I will plain out say, that is my problem with David Haye. He runs his mouth too fucking much, he said he was going to KO Valuev and his punch output was HORRIBLE.

Wladimir makes no excuses about his style, he is what he is, he fights using his height reach and talent, he still gets the KO for the most part. If Haye wants to do the same, then fine, but he must stop running his mouth about being exciting, by all means talk trash but when you talk about how you will fight don't bullshit.

Your smear campaign wont work Lyle.
Haye's number will now be permamnently higher than Wladimirs.

Why, becuase Wladimir is as booring inside the ring as he is out of it... Even when he is knocking guys out, it's dreadfully boring :-X

That's not a good sign mate :-\

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Your smear campaign wont work Lyle.
Haye's number will now be permamnently higher than Wladimirs.

Why, becuase Wladimir is as booring inside the ring as he is out of it... Even when he is knocking guys out, it's dreadfully boring :-X

That's not a good sign mate :-\

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...people said Mike Tyson was more exciting than Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield and look how well that went for Iron Mike

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Your smear campaign wont work Lyle.
Haye's number will now be permamnently higher than Wladimirs.

Why, becuase Wladimir is as booring inside the ring as he is out of it... Even when he is knocking guys out, it's dreadfully boring :-X

That's not a good sign mate :-\

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...people said Mike Tyson was more exciting than Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield and look how well that went for Iron Mike

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IMO Evander is the most exciting HW ever.

Tyson more exciting at HW than Holyfield?...

9 times out of 10 with Tyson it was a forgone conclusion... hardly excitement.

9 times out of 10 with evander it was a competative war.

I don't think Haye could have fought any other way in this fight. Many people doubted his ability to stick to a gameplan and didn't think he would have the stamina to go 12 rounds (I know thats what i thought) but he boxed a clever fight. I don't think many people could look good against someone like Valuev, his size makes it difficult to be effective and eye catching. I'm sure we'll se more excitement and aggression from Haye in the Ruiz fight next year

Interestingly, had loads of phonecalls in the last 40 hrs. All from people in the Game and Fighters maybe 50 calls, only 1 saw it for Haye :rolleyes: makes you think.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Interestingly, had loads of phonecalls in the last 40 hrs. All from people in the Game and Fighters maybe 50 calls, only 1 saw it for Haye :rolleyes: makes you think.

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Yes, it does..., it makes me think people are full of it.

Haye didn't run, he boxed.

He could of certainly thrown more though.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Your smear campaign wont work Lyle.
Haye's number will now be permamnently higher than Wladimirs.

Why, becuase Wladimir is as booring inside the ring as he is out of it... Even when he is knocking guys out, it's dreadfully boring :-X

That's not a good sign mate :-\

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...people said Mike Tyson was more exciting than Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield and look how well that went for Iron Mike

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IMO Evander is the most exciting HW ever.

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I agree. I forget which round it was, either 10th or 11th, of Bowe-Holyfield I. One of the most exciting rounds of boxing I've ever seen. Tops for me would be the whole Hagler-Hearns fight ;D

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Why is moving around intelligently nowadays always considered running? Is it foolish for a guy like Haye, who is known to have a weak chin to move away from a much larger opponent and not allow them to get off? Its just so frustrating to constantly hear about how these guys are constantly running when some of the most liked and famous boxers in the sports' history (Ali, Leonard, Roy Jones Jr) made some of the most boring fights imaginable with a lot more movement than guys get criticized for nowadays. Back then it was called skill and ring generalship, but today its called running. If you are in a ring even if its 24x24, if you were fighting a nobody, it doesn't matter how fast they are you could track them down if you had any modicum of skill. It isn't just speed and movement that is the reason why guys like MAyweather, Dirrell, Wladimir, Vitali, Haye today were so elusive. A lot of it has to do with skill. I think maybe its people who have never boxed, but maybe you should go into a gym, find a guy who is even relatively good, and try keeping away from him.

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agree with u 100 percent mate

Nothing wrong with it, just dont expect the sport to grow if it cant attract the casual fan who would prefer to see toe to toe action :(