I can't see Haye beating Wladimir moreso now then ever before.

The one thing I thought Haye had a chance of doing against Wlad that would work is countering over the jab, but he couldn't do it against Valuev. I thought because of his amazing athleticism and speed he would be able to get in and out at will against Valuev, but even Chagaev, who though a good athlete is much slower and less coordinated than Haye, had way more success getting in and out on Valuev. I think Haye should have followed Mayweather's blue print for beating Corrales, and that was to jab to the body (In Haye's case he loves to throw hooks to the body as well) until he brought Valuev's arms down, then hit him with looping hooks over the top, but Haye hardly threw anything which didn't force Valuev alter his guard at all. I was just surprised because Valuev often timed Haye coming in, and got off glancing counter punches at times. If it was a quicker more light footed fight like Wladimir I think Haye would be getting hit cleanly a lot.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The one thing I thought Haye had a chance of doing against Wlad that would work is countering over the jab, but he couldn't do it against Valuev. I thought because of his amazing athleticism and speed he would be able to get in and out at will against Valuev, but even Chagaev, who though a good athlete is much slower and less coordinated than Haye, had way more success getting in and out on Valuev. I think Haye should have followed Mayweather's blue print for beating Corrales, and that was to jab to the body (In Haye's case he loves to throw hooks to the body as well) until he brought Valuev's arms down, then hit him with looping hooks over the top, but Haye hardly threw anything which didn't force Valuev alter his guard at all. I was just surprised because Valuev often timed Haye coming in, and got off glancing counter punches at times. If it was a quicker more light footed fight like Wladimir I think Haye would be getting hit cleanly a lot.

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Against a fighter like Wlad Haye would get destroyed.

I also disagree with Haye having 'amazing athleticism'.

He's been on a good run because he's had a lucky break as far as opponents go.

He caught Mormeck on the slide, but was still almost beat, Enzo is, was and always has been a domestic level fighter, right now he's just a club fighter. Valuev is the most awful excuse of a belt holder in decades.

John Ruiz will represent the best opponent Haye has ever faced.

He just happened to unify one of the weakest divisions in boxing in the cruiserweight division. He's further away from the Klitschko than Hatton was from Floyd and the Pacman imo. The guys he has been beating are the equivilents of Carlos Maussa and Juan Lazcano. When he fights a real fighter then we will see how good he is.

I'm not saying Haye is a great fighter, but his athleticism is undeniable, the things he can do in the ring are done by guys half his size, and even they have more difficulty than he does doing it. His handspeed and reflexes are those of a lightweight. His problems are his chin and stamina, I was shocked to hear he doesn't run long distance, because that helps you build a gas tank, its so hard to do it any other way which is why every boxer runs.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The one thing I thought Haye had a chance of doing against Wlad that would work is countering over the jab, but he couldn't do it against Valuev. I thought because of his amazing athleticism and speed he would be able to get in and out at will against Valuev, but even Chagaev, who though a good athlete is much slower and less coordinated than Haye, had way more success getting in and out on Valuev. I think Haye should have followed Mayweather's blue print for beating Corrales, and that was to jab to the body (In Haye's case he loves to throw hooks to the body as well) until he brought Valuev's arms down, then hit him with looping hooks over the top, but Haye hardly threw anything which didn't force Valuev alter his guard at all. I was just surprised because Valuev often timed Haye coming in, and got off glancing counter punches at times. If it was a quicker more light footed fight like Wladimir I think Haye would be getting hit cleanly a lot.

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Haye broke his right hand in the 2nd round

So that stops him from jabbing to the body? Or throwing left hooks upstairs? Even in the first two rounds he had plenty of oppertunities to throw his right over the jab because Valuev hardly moves in behind his jab to make it difficult to counter, its 10x harder to counter Wlad over the jab because of how he fights.

I dont see it any differently than I did before. Wlad would be a very strong favourite but Haye has the punchers chance.

The one plus to come out of the Valuev fight is that Haye endorsed his punching credentials by giving Valuev jelly legs late in the fight. For every second that Haye is in there against Wlad he has a chance.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

Haye broke his right hand in the 2nd round

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Exactly. ANd despite what Lyle wants to believe that actually turned out to be true. So with that knowledge I feel it's hard to really judge Haye from the Valuev fight.

His favourite weapon to counter with is that right hand, which he couldn't use from the 2nd onwards.

As I have said many times before I would pick Haye against any of the heavyweights out there - but not Wlad or Vitali.

vs Wlad like Memphis says he would have a chance at any time - if he can get past the fluctuating jab jab right, jab jab right, jab jab right strategy he is likely to face.

Against Vitali however forget it.....too big and unlike Valuev skilled. Haye gets destroyed in this one - though puts up a better fight than Herbie Hide did.

Yeah Vitali is another kettle of fish, unless he gets old/injured. That window of opportunity he has against Wlad wont be there against Vitali, I cant see any way for him to win that one.

What Wlad does well will negate everything Haye did vs Valuev...great jab, great athletic ability, big power, and good defense.

Broken hand or not Haye cannot fight that way and beat Wladimir, it's not going to happen. As far as punch output, Haye has never impressed in that area

When the opponent isn't 7 foot 2 and his hand isn't broken do you think he will fight like that?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

What Wlad does well will negate everything Haye did vs Valuev...great jab, great athletic ability, big power, and good defense.

Broken hand or not Haye cannot fight that way and beat Wladimir, it's not going to happen. As far as punch output, Haye has never impressed in that area

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Most definitely... and I think that the only chance Haye would have Wlad would be a K.O... and with the reach difference between these two and the killer Jab Wladimir has, Haye would look like mashed patatoes before the 6th round. On the other hand, Vitali is perhaps even worse to fight as Haye doesn't even have the necessary power to shake his hairs off.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

When the opponent isn't 7 foot 2 and his hand isn't broken do you think he will fight like that?

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You might as well forget it mate. cant see the woods for all the trees

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Originally Posted by Lyle

What Wlad does well will negate everything Haye did vs Valuev...great jab, great athletic ability, big power, and good defense.

Broken hand or not Haye cannot fight that way and beat Wladimir, it's not going to happen. As far as punch output, Haye has never impressed in that area

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Lyle, how about that Lamon Brewster? What is he, 6'2 220-230?

Wlad gon get knocked out ;D

And before you say but Wlad destroyed him in the rematch, Im happy with that, I'd take Haye splatting him then getting splatted in return just to hear you explain the first fight away ;D

I wonder if Haye is gonna adopt this level of 'discipline' for every fight now on?

I really hope not.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

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Originally Posted by Lyle

What Wlad does well will negate everything Haye did vs Valuev...great jab, great athletic ability, big power, and good defense.

Broken hand or not Haye cannot fight that way and beat Wladimir, it's not going to happen. As far as punch output, Haye has never impressed in that area

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Lyle, how about that Lamon Brewster? What is he, 6'2 220-230?

Wlad gon get knocked out ;D

And before you say but Wlad destroyed him in the rematch, Im happy with that, I'd take Haye splatting him then getting splatted in return just to hear you explain the first fight away ;D

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The Wlad who fought Lamon Brewster the first time has been completely revamped by Emmanuel Steward. Haye won't step in the ring against a guy he can just throw bombs at. And remember, Brewster had to drag himself off the canvas twice before Klitschko gassed out. If Haye takes those kinds of punches flush I don't think he survives. Brewster had a monster of a chin in that fight. Hell, if that Brewster fought Haye he'd kill David.

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Originally Posted by Killface

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Originally Posted by Memphis

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Originally Posted by Lyle

What Wlad does well will negate everything Haye did vs Valuev...great jab, great athletic ability, big power, and good defense.

Broken hand or not Haye cannot fight that way and beat Wladimir, it's not going to happen. As far as punch output, Haye has never impressed in that area

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Lyle, how about that Lamon Brewster? What is he, 6'2 220-230?

Wlad gon get knocked out ;D

And before you say but Wlad destroyed him in the rematch, Im happy with that, I'd take Haye splatting him then getting splatted in return just to hear you explain the first fight away ;D

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The Wlad who fought Lamon Brewster the first time has been completely revamped by Emmanuel Steward. Haye won't step in the ring against a guy he can just throw bombs at. And remember, Brewster had to drag himself off the canvas twice before Klitschko gassed out. If Haye takes those kinds of punches flush I don't think he survives. Brewster had a monster of a chin in that fight. Hell, if that Brewster fought Haye he'd kill David.

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Your seriously over emphasising lamont brewster here

Any decent heavy including the likes of peter and ibraghimov could take brewster out if they wanted to.

Throw vitali out of the equasion here, he`d kill haye 365 days a year. I genuinely think wladmir could be one of those guys who gets intimidated and allows the occasion to get the best of him. Haye in my opinion boxes a very clever fight which frustrates wlad leading to him falling into hayes trap and getting sparked out!

Anyone else want to take my post as something other than a dig at Lyle? ;D

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Lyle, how about that Lamon Brewster? What is he, 6'2 220-230?

Wlad gon get knocked out ;D

And before you say but Wlad destroyed him in the rematch, Im happy with that, I'd take Haye splatting him then getting splatted in return just to hear you explain the first fight away ;D

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OK, do you see David Haye taking the punishment Lamon Brewster took to win that fight? Do you see David Haye applying pressure effectively like Lamon Brewster did?

I don't, which is why I am not worried Haye will do anything like Lamon Brewster did, same goes for Ross Purrity.

(before you even ask) As for comparing Haye to Sanders, Wladimir will not and has not fought in that manner since that fight. Wlad got impatient with Sanders, he wanted to put on a show to land a fight with Lennox Lewis...it's not the first time or the last time something like that has happened. Believe you me there is NO WAY Wlad is looking past David Haye, and I feel Wlad has every intention of doing what he said, drag Haye kicking and screaming 11 rounds and then knock him out in the 12th....but I doubt Haye lasts 7

Gotcha ;D

I really disagree Taeth. Even at cruiserweight, Haye's athleticism has never stuck out to much, maybe he is a touch faster but I've never thought him to be super athletic. Just an unconventional fighter but it's hardly as if his likes hadn't been seen before. Also the gap in athleticism between him and Wlad is not that great.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

I dont see it any differently than I did before. Wlad would be a very strong favourite but Haye has the punchers chance.

The one plus to come out of the Valuev fight is that Haye endorsed his punching credentials by giving Valuev jelly legs late in the fight. For every second that Haye is in there against Wlad he has a chance.

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Exactly my feelings

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Yeah Vitali is another kettle of fish, unless he gets old/injured. That window of opportunity he has against Wlad wont be there against Vitali, I cant see any way for him to win that one.

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Same as above

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Originally Posted by Memphis

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Originally Posted by Lyle

What Wlad does well will negate everything Haye did vs Valuev...great jab, great athletic ability, big power, and good defense.

Broken hand or not Haye cannot fight that way and beat Wladimir, it's not going to happen. As far as punch output, Haye has never impressed in that area

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Lyle, how about that Lamon Brewster? What is he, 6'2 220-230?

Wlad gon get knocked out ;D

And before you say but Wlad destroyed him in the rematch, Im happy with that, I'd take Haye splatting him then getting splatted in return just to hear you explain the first fight away ;D

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You also have to admit that is a totally different Wlad too correct? Since the last time he was knocked down has anyone been close to even stunning Wlad? Hell how about hitting Wlad with a power punch?

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

You also have to admit that is a totally different Wlad too correct? Since the last time he was knocked down has anyone been close to even stunning Wlad? Hell how about hitting Wlad with a power punch?

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Chagaev hit Wlad with a power punch after the bell in their fight....Wlad didn't seem all that bothered by it.

I think of all the guys Wlad has fought recently Tony Thompson gave him the toughest fight, actually gave Wlad a black eye and marked his face up a touch. Of course Tony was constantly being told by his corner to keep fighting, so one has to either question his heart or think that he took some really hard shots and was really tired by the end of the fight. I give Tony Thompson big respect, he was just outclassed. I would fancy his chances vs David Haye though, because of his good defense and his good jab.

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by Killface

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Lyle, how about that Lamon Brewster? What is he, 6'2 220-230?

Wlad gon get knocked out ;D

And before you say but Wlad destroyed him in the rematch, Im happy with that, I'd take Haye splatting him then getting splatted in return just to hear you explain the first fight away ;D

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The Wlad who fought Lamon Brewster the first time has been completely revamped by Emmanuel Steward. Haye won't step in the ring against a guy he can just throw bombs at. And remember, Brewster had to drag himself off the canvas twice before Klitschko gassed out. If Haye takes those kinds of punches flush I don't think he survives. Brewster had a monster of a chin in that fight. Hell, if that Brewster fought Haye he'd kill David.

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Your seriously over emphasising lamont brewster here

Any decent heavy including the likes of peter and ibraghimov could take brewster out if they wanted to.

Throw vitali out of the equasion here, he`d kill haye 365 days a year. I genuinely think wladmir could be one of those guys who gets intimidated and allows the occasion to get the best of him. Haye in my opinion boxes a very clever fight which frustrates wlad leading to him falling into hayes trap and getting sparked out!

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I think that fight was Brewster's peak. He doesn't have that kind of will now (but still has a helluva chin). I don't see Haye getting close to Klitschko unless Wlad lets him in and he just doesn't fight that way anymore.

On that night Peter-Brewster would have been very interesting as Peter can throw bombs all night and Brewster soaked up a helluva lot of punishment. I think Peter-Brewster would have looked similar to Golota-Brewster over the course of 7-8 rounds with Peter losing and Ibragimov would have no chance without the ability to bang. Brewster was a Tasmanian Devil and there was just no getting away from him.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

You also have to admit that is a totally different Wlad too correct? Since the last time he was knocked down has anyone been close to even stunning Wlad? Hell how about hitting Wlad with a power punch?

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Chagaev hit Wlad with a power punch after the bell in their fight....Wlad didn't seem all that bothered by it.

I think of all the guys Wlad has fought recently Tony Thompson gave him the toughest fight, actually gave Wlad a black eye and marked his face up a touch. Of course Tony was constantly being told by his corner to keep fighting, so one has to either question his heart or think that he took some really hard shots and was really tired by the end of the fight. I give Tony Thompson big respect, he was just outclassed. I would fancy his chances vs David Haye though, because of his good defense and his good jab.

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Agreed. I was up for his fight against Thompson. The guy was Wlad's size and was on a good win-streak. I thought there was a chance he would win and he lasted longer than Klitschko's last few opponents.

Haye would get buzzed by Klitschko's jab until he held still long enough to catch that bolt of a right hand to the face then it would be night-night.

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Originally Posted by Killface

I think that fight was Brewster's peak. He doesn't have that kind of will now (but still has a helluva chin). I don't see Haye getting close to Klitschko unless Wlad lets him in and he just doesn't fight that way anymore.

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What Brewster did to Wladimir was apply CONSTANT PRESSURE, David Haye's style doesn't allow for that, he's an in and out throwing 1 or 2 punches at a time. When Brewster wasn't applying pressure Wlad was trying to chase him down.....now'a'days Wladimir fights (as I am sure all of you have noticed) with patience, he fights at the pace he is comfortable with and he usually sets the pace with his jab.

Since that loss Wlad has done it all, he's gotten up from knockdowns to win, he's KO'd fighters early, KO'd them late, won decisions, and really other than the Peter and Thompson fights he hasn't been bothered, he's very relaxed in the ring but he does his job...imagine the confidence knowing you could EASILY win a UD vs pretty much anyone in the division right now with 1 punch used over and over again.