I heard Hbo is interested in this one . Who wins and how if they would fight?
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I heard Hbo is interested in this one . Who wins and how if they would fight?
Bute would savage Pavlik and I would enjoy every second of it. However, Pavlik's right hand would be the key to the fight, if he could find a home for it Bute could get into trouble. I don't think it happens though, Bute by TKO.
Pavlik would be better served in chasing a fight with Williams, who I feel he would beat.
Bute would win this via very comfortable decision. Of course Pavlik would have a puncher's chance. But Pavlik doesn't track down boxers very well and Bute is a very slick one. A puncher would have to be more than one dimensional to get to Bute.
Bute will (because the fight will happen) just mangle Pavlik big time. The puncher's luck is always there but Bute hits DAMN HARD too and is a lot faster and slicker than Kelly. Add to this that Pavlik doesn't have Andrade's pressure and resilience, another KO for Bute and I am sure that it'll be a good fight to bet on as most peoples will vote Pavlik I am sure.
"Add to this that Pavlik doesn't have Andrade's pressure and resilience"
Kelly got plenty of resilience. Pavlik needs to stay at 160, both times he went above the weight he's looked less than stellar. Although bute would probably beat pavlik at his best...
Well Kelly Pavlik didn't seem to have the same pop, above Middleweight. And he didn't seem as effective, aka Jermain Taylor 2, aka Bernard Hopkins. So based on that i think Lucian Bute would win by TKO, Lucian Bute is a very good outside fighter.
And is good at pot shotting especially with his straight left hand, he is also an underrated body puncher. I think Lucian Bute would be too mobile for Kelly Pavlik and would make him look average IMO.
And people are mentioning Kelly Pavlik's power, well what about Lucian Bute's power ? he's stopped some very tough guys, and he seems to have a pretty solid enough chin aswell, where as Kelly Pavlik has been down and stunned plenty of times. And didn't seem to have the same thudding power, above Middleweight in the fights i mentioned above.
I think Lucian Bute would stop Kelly Pavlik in 9 or 10 rounds, he hits hard enough for Kelly Pavlik not to just rush in. He's too mobile for the slow footed Kelly Pavlik, and he's too slick. Aswell as being too good of a counter puncher.
The only thing that worries me is that Kelly Pavlik, has a big reach advantage. And he does punch very straight, so im a bit concerned about my boy Lucian Bute, getting caught with one of Kelly Pavlik's big booming right hands, but for now i'll stand by with my prediction.
PAvlik has a big heart, he's strong physically. However, his resilience and jaw are nowhere close to Andrade. IN the 3 first rounds, Andrade did eat some very good bombs that would have cracked PAvlik far before.Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
I would have said Lucian Bute would beat Pavlik handily even before the 2nd Andrade fight. Now I'm sure it would be a trouncing.
I was half paying attention- who's got the bad elbows, Bute or Andrade?
Bute stops him in 3 rounds imo. Pavlik always looks a bit vulnerable early & I think once Bute hurts him, he'll close the show.
I go with Bute by UD, IMO as most peoples it seems is if Kelly can land the right hand enough to hurt Bute to the point he is really staggered but Bute has a pretty good chin and I don't see him getting trounced by one shot.
I see this being simular to the Hopkins fight where Pavlik is game but he just gets out classed by a superior boxer
I'm a little worried as to where Pavlik's head is these days. I've been reading lots of rumors (all of them bad). Given Bute's recent fights and Pavlik looking completley lost when he moved up to face Hopkins I say Bute by wide decision or late KO.
Hope the fight comes off anyways as it more good exposure for Bute. If he wins he's in-line for a good payday vs. Dawson or the Super 6 winner.
"PAvlik has a big heart, he's strong physically. However, his resilience and jaw are nowhere close to Andrade"
Well I don't factor jaw into resilience, pavlik to me has plenty of resilience by getting up every time he's been down, and even when he was beat over 12 rounds by hop he just kept coming, so his jaw might not be on the level of andrade but his resilience and will sure are.
Damn never has a man been hailed so highly for achieving so little.
Pavlik would bully and break up Lucian Bute, I'd put my house on it. He's got no stamina and a suspect chin.
He's the most overatted fighter in boxing after Nonito Donaire.
Sig bets with anyone willing to step up on this.
When he fights a top fighter he's going to do his best Jermain Taylor impression, trust me on this ;)
I'll step up and accept your challenge no sweat, Lucian Bute was actually underrated before the 2nd Librado Andrade fight. He beat Sakio Bika more convincingly than anyone else has including Joe Calzaghe, he stopped Kabary Salem, a fighter who put Joe Calzaghe down heavily and went 12 rounds with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Fulgencio Zuniga who put down Kelly Pavlik, and was never down in 9 tough rounds with Kelly Pavlik. He was stopped within 4 rounds by Lucian Bute with a body shot, and Lolenga Mock a fighter who put down David Haye. And obviously an impressive early round stoppage of a fighter, who people thought would never be stopped aka Librado Andrade.
He has some good underrated wins on his record, im not saying his record is fantastic. But its a decent record for only being a pro for 6 years, i like Lucian Bute i have for quite awhile. I think he's the real deal.
And lastly i don't see how you can say Lucian Bute has a suspect chin, he's been in with some good punchers. And has never really looked hurt except for the Librado Andrade fight, but that was from an accumulation of punishment. It was basically the same as the Meldrick Taylor fight, and i don't think Meldrick Taylor had a suspect chin.
As for the stamina issue well he's had some late stoppage wins, like the one in the 11th round when he won his title. But yes anyway i'll doubt i'll change your mind thats your opinion, which is fair enough but i accept your bet.
What punishment did he accumulate, Librado did nothing for 11 rounds and then Bute just gassed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI'll step up and accept your challenge no sweat, Lucian Bute was actually underrated before the 2nd Librado Andrade fight. He beat Sakio Bika more convincingly than anyone else has including Joe Calzaghe, he stopped Kabary Salem, a fighter who put Joe Calzaghe down heavily and went 12 rounds with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Fulgencio Zuniga who put down Kelly Pavlik, and was never down in 9 tough rounds with Kelly Pavlik. He was stopped within 4 rounds by Lucian Bute with a body shot, and Lolenga Mock a fighter who put down David Haye. And obviously an impressive early round stoppage of a fighter, who people thought would never be stopped aka Librado Andrade.
He has some good underrated wins on his record, im not saying his record is fantastic. But its a decent record for only being a pro for 6 years, i like Lucian Bute i have for quite awhile. I think he's the real deal.
And lastly i don't see how you can say Lucian Bute has a suspect chin, he's been in with some good punchers. And has never really looked hurt except for the Librado Andrade fight, but that was from an accumulation of punishment. It was basically the same as the Meldrick Taylor fight, and i don't think Meldrick Taylor had a suspect chin.
As for the stamina issue well he's had some late stoppage wins, like the one in the 11th round when he won his title. But yes anyway i'll doubt i'll change your mind thats your opinion, which is fair enough but i accept your bet.
He's the new Marcus Beyer imo.
I don't think he's that special at all. He's never even beaten a reigning world champion. Berrio was just a suprise winner of a vacant belt, Joppy was old and well past his prime, the rest of opposition has just been mediocre.
Joppy is the only guy he has fought you could say was ever world class but that was a long time before Bute got to him.
Andrade has always been a poor mans Edison Miranda, less power but a better chin, approximate same skill level of zero, he was 1-13 as an amatuer and beating him, even by ko hardly means a great deal, especially when he was knocked out by him a year ago.
I'm sure Bute would give anyone trouble for a few rounds, but once he comes up against sustained pressure he will crumble. I can't think of any fighter who crumbled the way he did against Andrade in the first fight ever overcome that kind of late fight stamina depletion. It will always be a factor in his fights, and its something that will only ever get worse.
Depending how many fights his career lasts he's going to finish his career with at least 4 or 5 stoppage losses.
I'd pick Jermain Taylor over him.
I don't know if I totally agree with Bilbo (he'd probably beat Pavlik who's a bit out there these days) but I do kind of agree. He is getting a bit overrated maybe. I mean seriously Mikkel Kessler showed what a topish fighter should do with Librado Andrade long before Bute even fought him. He's a solid fighter but there are some things I don't like about him. He should have been in the Super Six though. Out of that group I could see Abraham, Ward, Kessler, and (I can't believe I'm saying this out loud) maybe even Froch beating him. Maybe Dirrell too. Not like I think he's bad though, just not great.
At this point I think Bute hands Pavlik his ass:boxing2:
I'll take this bet too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I like Bute over the Stieglitz v. Miranda winner and over Pavlik and probably also over Green.
Do you mean the "hole in the ground", isn't it ? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhat punishment did he accumulate, Librado did nothing for 11 rounds and then Bute just gassed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI'll step up and accept your challenge no sweat, Lucian Bute was actually underrated before the 2nd Librado Andrade fight. He beat Sakio Bika more convincingly than anyone else has including Joe Calzaghe, he stopped Kabary Salem, a fighter who put Joe Calzaghe down heavily and went 12 rounds with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Fulgencio Zuniga who put down Kelly Pavlik, and was never down in 9 tough rounds with Kelly Pavlik. He was stopped within 4 rounds by Lucian Bute with a body shot, and Lolenga Mock a fighter who put down David Haye. And obviously an impressive early round stoppage of a fighter, who people thought would never be stopped aka Librado Andrade.
He has some good underrated wins on his record, im not saying his record is fantastic. But its a decent record for only being a pro for 6 years, i like Lucian Bute i have for quite awhile. I think he's the real deal.
And lastly i don't see how you can say Lucian Bute has a suspect chin, he's been in with some good punchers. And has never really looked hurt except for the Librado Andrade fight, but that was from an accumulation of punishment. It was basically the same as the Meldrick Taylor fight, and i don't think Meldrick Taylor had a suspect chin.
As for the stamina issue well he's had some late stoppage wins, like the one in the 11th round when he won his title. But yes anyway i'll doubt i'll change your mind thats your opinion, which is fair enough but i accept your bet.
He's the new Marcus Beyer imo.
I don't think he's that special at all. He's never even beaten a reigning world champion. Berrio was just a suprise winner of a vacant belt, Joppy was old and well past his prime, the rest of opposition has just been mediocre.
Joppy is the only guy he has fought you could say was ever world class but that was a long time before Bute got to him.
Andrade has always been a poor mans Edison Miranda, less power but a better chin, approximate same skill level of zero, he was 1-13 as an amatuer and beating him, even by ko hardly means a great deal, especially when he was knocked out by him a year ago.
I'm sure Bute would give anyone trouble for a few rounds, but once he comes up against sustained pressure he will crumble. I can't think of any fighter who crumbled the way he did against Andrade in the first fight ever overcome that kind of late fight stamina depletion. It will always be a factor in his fights, and its something that will only ever get worse.
Depending how many fights his career lasts he's going to finish his career with at least 4 or 5 stoppage losses.
I'd pick Jermain Taylor over him.
Bute is no Marcus Beyer that much is for sure, Bute is the real deal...
Taylor over Bute? What the hell have you been inhaling in that Hobbit hole of yours? Try some fresh air on the main grounds it will do wonders for your perception of things:D
The only man to ever ko Andrade and Kabari Salem, the Egyptian Magician, one of the hardest hitter of the division,excellent speed, movement and defense and you think he's such a fluke? I understand your reluctance with the hype he just got but as Dan Raphael said, he's probably the Kryptonite of the division. I bet what you want that Froch or Pavlik do not see the light of the 12 rounds against him and that he has all the potential to potentially outsmart Abraham. Bute was famed for his stamina, the last round with Andrade of the first fight is a fluke because he decided to trade punch for punch toward the end and not stick to his game plan. That plus he didn't throw body shots because Andrade had a more or less illegal protector, in the second fight they ordered to have it under scrutiny to avoid him to get so much advantages from a total body shield. the only one which I would worry about at the moment is Ward because of the speed but on paper, the guy has the full deck to have a very good chance to beat anybody in the division, not necessarily to beat them absolutely but he has all the tools to achieve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhat punishment did he accumulate, Librado did nothing for 11 rounds and then Bute just gassed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI'll step up and accept your challenge no sweat, Lucian Bute was actually underrated before the 2nd Librado Andrade fight. He beat Sakio Bika more convincingly than anyone else has including Joe Calzaghe, he stopped Kabary Salem, a fighter who put Joe Calzaghe down heavily and went 12 rounds with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Fulgencio Zuniga who put down Kelly Pavlik, and was never down in 9 tough rounds with Kelly Pavlik. He was stopped within 4 rounds by Lucian Bute with a body shot, and Lolenga Mock a fighter who put down David Haye. And obviously an impressive early round stoppage of a fighter, who people thought would never be stopped aka Librado Andrade.
He has some good underrated wins on his record, im not saying his record is fantastic. But its a decent record for only being a pro for 6 years, i like Lucian Bute i have for quite awhile. I think he's the real deal.
And lastly i don't see how you can say Lucian Bute has a suspect chin, he's been in with some good punchers. And has never really looked hurt except for the Librado Andrade fight, but that was from an accumulation of punishment. It was basically the same as the Meldrick Taylor fight, and i don't think Meldrick Taylor had a suspect chin.
As for the stamina issue well he's had some late stoppage wins, like the one in the 11th round when he won his title. But yes anyway i'll doubt i'll change your mind thats your opinion, which is fair enough but i accept your bet.
He's the new Marcus Beyer imo.
I don't think he's that special at all. He's never even beaten a reigning world champion. Berrio was just a suprise winner of a vacant belt, Joppy was old and well past his prime, the rest of opposition has just been mediocre.
Joppy is the only guy he has fought you could say was ever world class but that was a long time before Bute got to him.
Andrade has always been a poor mans Edison Miranda, less power but a better chin, approximate same skill level of zero, he was 1-13 as an amatuer and beating him, even by ko hardly means a great deal, especially when he was knocked out by him a year ago.
I'm sure Bute would give anyone trouble for a few rounds, but once he comes up against sustained pressure he will crumble. I can't think of any fighter who crumbled the way he did against Andrade in the first fight ever overcome that kind of late fight stamina depletion. It will always be a factor in his fights, and its something that will only ever get worse.
Depending how many fights his career lasts he's going to finish his career with at least 4 or 5 stoppage losses.
I'd pick Jermain Taylor over him.
Bute wins, Pavlik isn't the same fighter at 168. He may not even be the same fighter at 160 anymore.
Well it seems I am in a minority of one then, with maybe Ouma leaning towards my views.
But I'm never wrong about fighters I hate. I told everyone years ago that Mijares was an overhyped lemon who was nowhere near p4p when everyone else thought he was the new superstar.
Of course Ive been predicting the demise of Nonito Donaire as well, which will happen as soon as he steps up to fight a world rated opponent. Currently he has avoided them for two years choosing to go life and death with domestic level 13-3-1 opposition, kind of like a flyweight John Duddy if you will.
I also dared to say that Kessler wasn't all that he was made up to be and that Andre Ward would beat him on his way to winning the Super Six, which so far, is looking like a good bet.
Anyway, I am in a bullish mood and so will predict that Bute gets beat when he steps up against world class opposition.
I'm amazed everyone has jumped off the Pavlik bandwagon following his points defeat to one of the greatest fighters of the modern era whilst Bute's knockout loss (should have been) to a crude brawler who was 1-13 as an amatuer is simply forgotten.
A motivated Pavlik is a far better opponent than Bute has ever faced.
Who does he need to beat to prove to you he is the real deal outside of the Super Six? He already has beat two top ten super middleweights and a few top twenty or thirty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Better guys than he's beaten. What's his best win? Andrade, Bika? Meh. Solid guys. Guys who will grind down the not ready or not good enough but nowhere near elite. I feel like I'm starting to become the anti-Lucian Bute around here when that's not really the case, I have nothing against him, and don't feel as strongly about it as Bilbo does, but ffs he hasn't even been in with anything even closely resembling an elite fighter and he's all of a sudden the clear cut man at the division?
I'm in favor of pumping the brakes as far as Bute goes but to each their own. I don't see how you can watch the 16 rounds with Andrade and not come away with some questions but ehh.
I would pick Kessler to shut Andrade out again if they fought in a couple months. And get hit less in the process than Bute.
Edit-I don't think he's the "real deal" yet but sure if he keeps winning him versus the winner of the super six would be an obvious fight.
You get your mom's permission?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Bute is a skilled outside fighter who has good pop and good handspeed.
Pavlik has got a good chance though due to his power and Butes average defense.
I can't pick a winner.
Ouma,Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
A win over who would increase your respect for his abilities other than ppl in the super six?
...bute could win this fight easy. Show up to the ring with a paul williams mask he'd be scared shitless and loose the fight.
Theres not that many good fights out there for him but IMO, i wouldn't mind him fighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratOuma,Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
A win over who would increase your respect for his abilities other than ppl in the super six?
Denis Inkin
Allan Green
Edison Miranda vs Roger Stieglitz
Karoly Balzsay
Either of these would be fine.
LOL, probably nobody at 168 right now. I kind of misread your post, he is I guess the real deal outside of the super six guys, just not sure he's the real deal over all.
I would love him to school Allan Green. But I don't think that highly of Green so it wouldn't really dramatically change my opinion of him.