Vitali Klitschko claims 'preliminary agreement' to fight David Haye

David I don't think you will be able to out run VK like you did NV. Will this be the second time an old man kicks hayes ass? With a jaw crushing ko I hope that would shut that big mouth for a while. Ohh I'm getting ahead of myself, will he get past Ruiz? Well if this fight takes place this will be the first time I will have ever pulled for JR. JR by Ko;D

Vitali Klitschko claims 'preliminary agreement' to fight David Haye | Sport | guardian.co.uk

With the way Vitali looked Saturday I fancy Hayes chances of winning a decision to be honest. Vitali had no snap in his punches and was quite predictable.

Well I will say this time is definately on Haye's side. Vitali has been dominant against his opposition, but you can still see slowing in his punches and footwork. I still favor Vitali, but Haye's day may be coming.

All these small heavyweights should be fighting each other instead of the Klits. We have Chambers and Haye and Arreola if he gets on a treadmill that could be considered heavyweights in more exciting fights then these giant 6'7 7 foot fighters are having. That match between Minto and Arreola is one of the best heavyweight fights ive seen in ages, that should say something.

Could be one of very few good HW fights hope Haye knocks the big guy out.

im backing haye after that showing by vitali.. No power for some reason.

To the people who picked Haye, why? What makes you think Haye can beat Vitali?

Wow, a guy has one dominant performance that doesn't look as good as you think and he's ready for the garbage heap, eh? So Vitali didn't have as much 'pop', that can be overrated at times. First off, you're discounting Johnson, who was pretty good, defensively. Second, Vitali may have realized he had this fight in the bag early on and knew it would be difficult to KO someone who wasn't going to mount any kind of offense and so 'cruised' to a win. Remember Arreola was only a couple months ago and that was a PUNISHMENT. Fully expect Vitali to look more like that than against Johnson when they clash. Vitali's only got, what 40 wins and 2 losses? That's somewhere around 15 fewer than Wlad with that several year layoff. He isn't shopworn because the guy doesn't get into brawls and he's a 'fresh' 38.

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Originally Posted by Kel

With the way Vitali looked Saturday I fancy Hayes chances of winning a decision to be honest. Vitali had no snap in his punches and was quite predictable.

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Not like Haye looked great in his last fight either

"After last weekends performance" what the hell is that even supposed to mean the guy won a shut out!!!It's not his fault the dude wasn't willing to fight back and just looking to survive, its hard to knock a guy out or hurt them when all they're doing is looking to survive and not wanting to mount an offense of their own...vitali takes this, haye doesn't really have anything vitali hasn't seen before

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Kel

With the way Vitali looked Saturday I fancy Hayes chances of winning a decision to be honest. Vitali had no snap in his punches and was quite predictable.

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Not like Haye looked great in his last fight either

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That must mean Haye is shot!!! :rolleyes:

It's one thing to be able to predict is going to punch you in the face and another entirely to prevent him from doing so.

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Originally Posted by Zilla

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Kel

With the way Vitali looked Saturday I fancy Hayes chances of winning a decision to be honest. Vitali had no snap in his punches and was quite predictable.

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Not like Haye looked great in his last fight either

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That must mean Haye is shot!!! :rolleyes:

It's one thing to be able to predict is going to punch you in the face and another entirely to prevent him from doing so.

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Don't you actually got to be good at one time to be considered shot?

The difference is, Haye is 29 with possible improvement likely.. Vitali is 38, already been forced into retirement through injury, and looked "old" on saturday. Look how his eyes marked up.

It might not be such a long shot that Haye smashes him up.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

The difference is, Haye is 29 with possible improvement likely.. Vitali is 38, already been forced into retirement through injury, and looked "old" on saturday. Look how his eyes marked up.

It might not be such a long shot that Haye smashes him up.

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Of course. Just look at the way he smashed up an even slower, less active Nikolay Valuev. :beat:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Fenster

The difference is, Haye is 29 with possible improvement likely.. Vitali is 38, already been forced into retirement through injury, and looked "old" on saturday. Look how his eyes marked up.

It might not be such a long shot that Haye smashes him up.

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Of course. Just look at the way he smashed up an even slower, less active Nikolay Valuev. :beat:

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I said it's a long shot.

Vitali isn't the mountain that Valuev is. Improvement vs decline. Youth vs injury prone fossil. There's been bigger upsets. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Fenster

The difference is, Haye is 29 with possible improvement likely.. Vitali is 38, already been forced into retirement through injury, and looked "old" on saturday. Look how his eyes marked up.

It might not be such a long shot that Haye smashes him up.

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Of course. Just look at the way he smashed up an even slower, less active Nikolay Valuev. :beat:

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I said it's a long shot.

Vitali isn't the mountain that Valuev is. Improvement vs decline. Youth vs injury prone fossil. There's been bigger upsets. Fact.

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Name 5 bigger upsets in the last 20 years?

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Of course. Just look at the way he smashed up an even slower, less active Nikolay Valuev. :beat:

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I said it's a long shot.

Vitali isn't the mountain that Valuev is. Improvement vs decline. Youth vs injury prone fossil. There's been bigger upsets. Fact.

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Name 5 bigger upsets in the last 20 years?

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Here's five big upsets this year!!!

Mosley-Margarito
Linares-Salgado
Ward-Kessler
Guzman-Funeka
Green-Roy

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I said it's a long shot.

Vitali isn't the mountain that Valuev is. Improvement vs decline. Youth vs injury prone fossil. There's been bigger upsets. Fact.

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Name 5 bigger upsets in the last 20 years?

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Here's five big upsets this year!!!

Mosley-Margarito
Linares-Salgado
Ward-Kessler
Guzman-Funeka
Green-Roy

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I have a hard time calling those upsets

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I said it's a long shot.

Vitali isn't the mountain that Valuev is. Improvement vs decline. Youth vs injury prone fossil. There's been bigger upsets. Fact.

---

Name 5 bigger upsets in the last 20 years?

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Here's five big upsets this year!!!

Mosley-Margarito
Linares-Salgado
Ward-Kessler
Guzman-Funeka
Green-Roy

---

I wouldn't call any of those bigger upsets than if Haye beat Vitali, other than maybe the Linares fight. Then again Linares has never proven to be as dominant as Vitali.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

Name 5 bigger upsets in the last 20 years?

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Here's five big upsets this year!!!

Mosley-Margarito
Linares-Salgado
Ward-Kessler
Guzman-Funeka
Green-Roy

---

I have a hard time calling those upsets

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They were all betting underdogs. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Here's five big upsets this year!!!

Mosley-Margarito
Linares-Salgado
Ward-Kessler
Guzman-Funeka
Green-Roy

---

I have a hard time calling those upsets

---

They were all betting underdogs. Fact.

---

:vd: Book makers ain't exactly the most knowledgeable Boxing fans. Fact

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Here's five big upsets this year!!!

Mosley-Margarito
Linares-Salgado
Ward-Kessler
Guzman-Funeka
Green-Roy

---

I have a hard time calling those upsets

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They were all betting underdogs. Fact.

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But your were asked for 5 bigger upsets not just 5 upsets. I think Haye beating Vitali would be up there with Clay beating Liston and Douglas beating Tyson.

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eagle

Name 5 bigger upsets in the last 20 years?

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Here's five big upsets this year!!!

Mosley-Margarito
Linares-Salgado
Ward-Kessler
Guzman-Funeka
Green-Roy

---

I wouldn't call any of those bigger upsets than if Haye beat Vitali, other than maybe the Linares fight. Then again Linares has never proven to be as dominant as Vitali.

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That's your personal opinion.

These are the current general odds for Haye-Vitali

Haye - 7/4
Vitali - 2/5

I'm almost certain the fights I listed the price between fav/underdog was wider.. so those underdog winners were given less chance than Haye ;)

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I have a hard time calling those upsets

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They were all betting underdogs. Fact.

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:vd: Book makers ain't exactly the most knowledgeable Boxing fans. Fact

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:vd:

That is one serious chump comment. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Here's five big upsets this year!!!

Mosley-Margarito
Linares-Salgado
Ward-Kessler
Guzman-Funeka
Green-Roy

---

I wouldn't call any of those bigger upsets than if Haye beat Vitali, other than maybe the Linares fight. Then again Linares has never proven to be as dominant as Vitali.

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That's your personal opinion.

These are the current general odds for Haye-Vitali

Haye - 7/4
Vitali - 2/5

I'm almost certain the fights I listed the price between fav/underdog was wider.. so those underdog winners were given less chance than Haye ;)

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Where are those odds taken from?

before Saturday I gave Haye NO chance of beating Vitali.But now, after seeing VK performance, just maybe he has a slight chance - 30% if i had to put a figure on it

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

I wouldn't call any of those bigger upsets than if Haye beat Vitali, other than maybe the Linares fight. Then again Linares has never proven to be as dominant as Vitali.

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That's your personal opinion.

These are the current general odds for Haye-Vitali

Haye - 7/4
Vitali - 2/5

I'm almost certain the fights I listed the price between fav/underdog was wider.. so those underdog winners were given less chance than Haye ;)

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Where are those odds taken from?

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http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/EN...10/Boxing.html

While you're there search the result section for the fights I listed ;)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

That's your personal opinion.

These are the current general odds for Haye-Vitali

Haye - 7/4
Vitali - 2/5

I'm almost certain the fights I listed the price between fav/underdog was wider.. so those underdog winners were given less chance than Haye ;)

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Where are those odds taken from?

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http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/EN...10/Boxing.html

While you're there search the result section for the fights I listed ;)

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A British bookmakers. Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

Where are those odds taken from?

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http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/EN...10/Boxing.html

While you're there search the result section for the fights I listed ;)

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A British bookmakers. Nuff said.

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:lol:

What odds you got then?

I still favor Vitali over Haye.

Vitali didn't look so great against Johnson but that was because Johnson threw literally no punches and was only concerned with defending himself than actually trying to win.

It's hard to look impressive against a fighter like that.

From what i remember, Vitali did look old against Gomez as well. Gomez was a fighter with superior speed and movement.

Vitali at this point is more impressive and dominant against pressure fighters (Peter, Arreola) but fighters who have superior speed and use movement ( Gomez, Johnson) will trouble him more. The funny thing is, Vitali didn't look dominate against Gomez or Johnson but if you watch both fights, he clearly won every round against both.

Haye has both good movement and superior speed but his chin isn't good at all, I see Vitali catching him and getting him out of there.

One problem i do have with Vitali is how he throws punches now. His punches don't have the snap on them like they used to because he throws arm punches.

I disagree that Vitali did look so bad, Johnson is considered a boxer hard to hit with a very tough style. Vitali landed a couple of times, just not flush often but I don't see how it makes him so lousy compared to before, just because Johnson has a hard style to match. Beside, Valuev didn't use any meaningful jab at all where Klitschko willl and with his huge range he won't miss. Also, his power is a lot more dangerous than what Barrett who did knock down Haye had. I have difficulties to really think that somebody seriously think Haye has a chance against Vitali.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/EN...10/Boxing.html

While you're there search the result section for the fights I listed ;)

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A British bookmakers. Nuff said.

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:lol:

What odds you got then?

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Well the odds are obviously gonna be closer in Hayes home country than they are everywhere else due to the hype job done on him there. Much like you'll find in just about any fighters home country. I've told u my odds, i believe Haye beating Vitali is up there with Douglas beating Tyson, Clay beating Liston and even Rahman beatin Lewis.

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

A British bookmakers. Nuff said.

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:lol:

What odds you got then?

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Well the odds are obviously gonna be closer in Hayes home country than they are everywhere else due to the hype job done on him there. Much like you'll find in just about any fighters home country. I've told u my odds, i believe Haye beating Vitali is up there with Douglas beating Tyson, Clay beating Liston and even Rahman beatin Lewis.

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The odds wont be much different anywhere else.

You don't understand odds, you're naming 40/1 shots (Tyson-Douglas) with 7/1 shots (Ali-Liston).

So you think Haye is between 7 and 40/1? The professionals think 7/4? Good job you don't bet pal ;)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

:lol:

What odds you got then?

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Well the odds are obviously gonna be closer in Hayes home country than they are everywhere else due to the hype job done on him there. Much like you'll find in just about any fighters home country. I've told u my odds, i believe Haye beating Vitali is up there with Douglas beating Tyson, Clay beating Liston and even Rahman beatin Lewis.

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The odds wont be much different anywhere else.

You don't understand odds, you're naming 40/1 shots (Tyson-Douglas) with 7/1 shots (Ali-Liston).

So you think Haye is between 7 and 40/1? The professionals think 7/4? Good job you don't bet pal ;)

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So u honestly believe the odds reflect the chance Haye has against Vitali? The professionals also thought Douglas was 40/1 to beat Tyson so u can see its not always that bright to listen to them as well. The average gambler aint a pro and dont know shit about boxing really.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Fenster

They were all betting underdogs. Fact.

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:vd: Book makers ain't exactly the most knowledgeable Boxing fans. Fact

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:vd:

That is one serious chump comment. Fact.

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But tell me I'm wrong

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

Well the odds are obviously gonna be closer in Hayes home country than they are everywhere else due to the hype job done on him there. Much like you'll find in just about any fighters home country. I've told u my odds, i believe Haye beating Vitali is up there with Douglas beating Tyson, Clay beating Liston and even Rahman beatin Lewis.

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The odds wont be much different anywhere else.

You don't understand odds, you're naming 40/1 shots (Tyson-Douglas) with 7/1 shots (Ali-Liston).

So you think Haye is between 7 and 40/1? The professionals think 7/4? Good job you don't bet pal ;)

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So u honestly believe the odds reflect the chance Haye has against Vitali? The professionals also thought Douglas was 40/1 to beat Tyson so u can see its not always that bright to listen to them as well. The average gambler aint a pro and dont know shit about boxing really.

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The odds obviously don't reflect EXACTLY the chances in the fight however they are a great gauge of a close expectation of the fight. Haye is seen as someone with a reasonable chance of winning however he is less than likely to win hence the odds of 7/4. There is no way you can put this on the level of Douglas/Tyson. Douglas was so overlooked by Tyson, the media, the boxing public in general that he was expected to get flattened in the first round.

even with signed fight contracts, a fight still has chances of getting cancelled (can't make weight, tho not on heavies, injuries, etc.)

Everyone who keeps talking about how bad VK looked with Johnson and how haye will give him a beat down.Answer these questions. Does haye protect himself like Johnson? No he don't. Can he take a hit. No he can't. Some said VK looked slow and old. Is VK faster than NV? Yes on his worst day. Is VK more aggressive than NV? Much much more. And just think haye won by MD, hmmm but yet he will out class VK and KO him. Haye talked so much shit about what he was going to do to NV until he was put to the test and then his heart begain to pump chickenshit. Now he runs his mouth again like he's a fearless warrior.When he finally get's in the ring with VK he will once again second guess himself and when or if he does hit VK with his almighty widowmaker (as some would like to call it)and it has no affect then haye will realize VK(like death) can't be stopped (not by him anyway) and hayes blood will once again turn to chickenshit.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

The odds wont be much different anywhere else.

You don't understand odds, you're naming 40/1 shots (Tyson-Douglas) with 7/1 shots (Ali-Liston).

So you think Haye is between 7 and 40/1? The professionals think 7/4? Good job you don't bet pal ;)

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So u honestly believe the odds reflect the chance Haye has against Vitali? The professionals also thought Douglas was 40/1 to beat Tyson so u can see its not always that bright to listen to them as well. The average gambler aint a pro and dont know shit about boxing really.

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The odds obviously don't reflect EXACTLY the chances in the fight however they are a great gauge of a close expectation of the fight. Haye is seen as someone with a reasonable chance of winning however he is less than likely to win hence the odds of 7/4. There is no way you can put this on the level of Douglas/Tyson. Douglas was so overlooked by Tyson, the media, the boxing public in general that he was expected to get flattened in the first round.

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Yeah it's true. However, seeing how Haye did act with the Klitschko, I doubt them will overlook him and I feel more that they will be like men on a mission.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

:vd: Book makers ain't exactly the most knowledgeable Boxing fans. Fact

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:vd:

That is one serious chump comment. Fact.

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But tell me I'm wrong

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Wrong. Bigtime wrong.

Major bookmakers not only employ experts to compile odds but also have inside info.

As Killer said, the odds are just a guide. A far better guide than someone on a forum saying "he has no chance" - anyone can say that.

So anyone that think's Haye has ZERO chance should save up all their pocket money, raid the piggybank and get stuck into that 2/5, which is obviuosly huge value ;)