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Missed the return of one of my favourite fighters last night, because yet again, it wasnt televised in Britain. Good to see Pavlik return to his knockout ways and from what i hear, Espino put up a brave effort before getting stopped so kudos to him. For the people who saw the fight, what did you think?
This is no disrespect to your post at all and definitely directed at Pavlik, I just find it hilarious that nobody cares :)
No threads about the fight last night
Pavlik has apparently said he is ready for Williams now.Quote:
Originally Posted by markb018
The problem for Pavlik to me as far as no one caring about him is he doesn't have the options he once did opponent wise. He showed against Hopkins that he wasn't an effective LHW so moving up that far is not an option. The obvious fight for him upto 12 months ago was Abraham but he's signed upto the super six which makes him unavailable for Pavlik for at least another 18 months. That leaves him Williams and that is a no win fight for Pavlik IMO. If he wins he will be beating a former WW (even though I think Williams is a natural MW) but if he gets beat off Williams then his career could well be over, because he wouldn't bring much to the table financially should he be beaten by a "WW" and he would be very dangerous to any big name fighter in the future due to his great power and would be avoided quite a bit i think!!
i don't think nobody cares about pavlik. he's still a major player. i think it's becoz people here don't post that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by markb018
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ....:-XQuote:
Originally Posted by zbolti don't think nobody cares about pavlik. he's still a major player. i think it's becoz people here don't post that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by markb018
I think the fact he was fighting a guy that Peter Manfredo smashed up says it all.
i created a thread about 2 hours ago, hatton vs. khan possible fight next year. until now it got no replies. people here don't post that much i thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ....:-XQuote:
Originally Posted by zbolti don't think nobody cares about pavlik. he's still a major player. i think it's becoz people here don't post that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by markb018
He did ok. He showed good power and poor defense, which I guess is expected at this point. He and Arum also made themselves look like assholes in the post-fight interview IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggmeister
There was a stickied thread dedicate to the fight. It was just a gimme fight with an expected outcome, so I don't think people really have much to say about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by markb018
I dont like Pavlik right now, due to the fact he made that fight right after Williams got a fight. He clearly ducked Williams and Jack Loew is a douchbag hypocrite because he was calling JT a ducker to get that fight. Well moreso I dont like Loew, Pavlik is alright he just needs to stop doing stupid shit outside the ring.
or it could be no one is interested in the tired subject of Hatton vs Khan, it's a fight that's been discussed numerous times, the guys who post here on a regular basis have a minimum of 1,000 posts, you don't do that in five minutes :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by zbolti created a thread about 2 hours ago, hatton vs. khan possible fight next year. until now it got no replies. people here don't post that much i thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ....:-XQuote:
Originally Posted by zbolt
That sums it up. These middle of the road fights, which are little more than sparring sessions with knockouts, are seldom likely to have people frothing at the mouth and posting in mad excitment about what they have just witnessed.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Pavlik won and the interest in him is there, it's just it wasn't a particularly meaningful fight. Now, if Williams/Pavlik gets back on again, I am sure it will garner plenty of attention.
Pavliks a decent fighter, it's just that he became derailed post Hopkins. I like the guy and hope he can get back on track again.
HE says he's ready for Williams and HBO says he's ready for Bute... quite curious how it'll turn out...
I like Kelly Pavlik, but his last two opponents have been shite, and in between those he contracted a nasty infection.
The trouble with Pavlik is that he is one dimensional. What he does, he does very well (jab,jab,right hand) but he's always going to struggle against a really good mover. Lets put it this way, if he was taking the shots he was taking last night against a real middleweight he would have been flat on his back. The bloke was cannon fodder.
Yep, Pavlik needs Williams right now there are no two ways about it. Because there is nothing out there for him at the minute.
He needs an opponent, because the man is wasting what should be the best earning years of his life here.
Pavlik did what he had to do on Saturday night. I think Pavlik intentionally let it be more exciting than it needed to be so that he could knock him out fast, which he did. No one doubted Pavlik wasn't among the better middleweights.
I find it hard to believe that Pavlik ducked Williams. I see the facts, but prior to the Williams debacle, Pavlik took on all comers even when it required him going up ten pounds in weight to fight a top five p4p guy in Hopkins. He fought Jermain when Jermain had beat Hopkins and Miranda after he broke Abraham's jaw in two places. Why would he duck Williams - a guy who jumped up from welterweight? Then again, I too can read the facts and the whole situation clearly looked suspect - though Pavlik's explanation makes sense. After putting off the Williams fight, he wanted to wait until February to fight again, but the sanctioning bodies threatened to strip him of his belts if he didn't face a mandatory. Thus, the Espino fight. Espino was a weak mandatory but that is a different subject.
Other than a fight with Williams, a fight with Felix Sturm makes sense. Both are top five middleweights on anyone's list and the fight would be an unifying fight. Fighting Sturm in Germany is big money too.
good to see kelly back to beating up ordinary fighters
He`s learnt his lesson from hopkins. Stay well clear of williams/martinez
This is a surprising post! I never would have expected it from Hattonthehammer what with all the praise you usually give Pavlik. Are you still bitter Pavlik sent your countryman Gary Locket into retirement?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
[quote=Rantcatrat;827370]This is a surprising post! I never would have expected it from Hattonthehammer what with all the praise you usually give Pavlik. Are you still bitter Pavlik sent your countryman Gary Locket into retirement?[/quote]Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
:lolhaha::lolhaha::lolhaha:
just saw the fight today and...Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Pavlik beats Froch FACT
OOOOOOORRRRRR... It could be that the minds on this forum know that Khan would get KO'd by even a fading Hatton.Quote:
Originally Posted by zbolti created a thread about 2 hours ago, hatton vs. khan possible fight next year. until now it got no replies. people here don't post that much i thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ....:-XQuote:
Originally Posted by zbolt
You're welcome.
Agreed. I think both beat Pavlik IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Pavlik is a punk....I'm sorry, I used to like the dude but the way he has handled himself since losing to Hopkins is horrible.
Great to see Pavlik back on track..Pavlik and Williams will go ahead next year and I can,t see Pavlik losing to Williams:p:rolleyes::lickish:
...yeah it's really hard to picture it when Kelly won't even fight the guyQuote:
Originally Posted by rosco
hatton koing khan is a big possibility. khan koing hatton is also possible (see khan stopping barrera). that's what make this an interesting fight and a very huge fight in ukQuote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTONOOOOOOORRRRRR... It could be that the minds on this forum know that Khan would get KO'd by even a fading Hatton.Quote:
Originally Posted by zbolti created a thread about 2 hours ago, hatton vs. khan possible fight next year. until now it got no replies. people here don't post that much i thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
You're welcome.
What opponent would you give Kelly credit for fighting next year? Paul, Sergio, Sturm..?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle...yeah it's really hard to picture it when Kelly won't even fight the guyQuote:
Originally Posted by rosco
How can you call Kelly a punk when he fought Miranda who broke AA's jaw in two places in the fight before the one with Pavlik, JT who had beat the great Bhop, JT again, and then Bhop. That doesn't look like a punk's resume to me. What makes Paul Williams any more fear-inspiring than those guys?
Pavlik had a crappy 2009. No doubt about it. I'm willing to give him one more chance. If his next opponent is trash, I'll happily concede you are right.
I call him a punk because he had been on the right track fighting threats and then he (like Sturm and Abraham before the super6) just started fighting bums....Lockett, Epsino who the fuck are they???
Kelly got his ass whupped 1 time and he's been sulking about it ever since then....I think mentally he's shot, we've seen it before where a fighter loses once and they can't cope with it so they continue to look poor and lose fights....well Kelly is now on that path.
I think Williams could beat Kelly but I KNOW Martinez would
I agree with this post. I atempt to not be too hard on fighters sometimes coming off a loss but it's the way this one went down that bothered me... I mean, you look at guys like Cotto who has been fighting the best for years now even after he suffered setbacks... This whole fighting a hump 2 weeks after an original fightdate is bullshit. I think he was injured... I think the staff infection worsened it... I know he had multiple surgeries... But 14 days fixed all that? Sorry, I don't buy it. I think Kelly knew he wasn't 100% and decided to frustrate Williams with dates until he said, "fuck it!" I don't blame him... and instead we got a classic with 2 guys that WANT TO FIGHT THE BEST ALL THE TIME. Hell, I don't think ANYONE wants to fight either Martinez OR Williams after that hellacious affair!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Williams did the right thing in looking elsewhere and I commend him for it... And Martinez far taking on such a task. My hat off to both! They gave the fans what they wanted...
Pavlik gave the fans a shitty PPV beating up a guy who lost to Manfredo 3 years ago... Well done, Kelly.
I agree, I think Martinez would beat Pavlik, and we may get the chance to see it, because I heard that there are already talks for the fight to happen in April. I guess HBO is pushing for it, because I think that they know that a fight between Pavlik and Williams will probably never happen. Williams wants 50% of the purse, because of everything that has happened, and no way will Pavlik and Top Rank agree to that. Plus, it's pretty obvious that HBO has taken to Martinez, and want to get him some more fights on their network.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I used to be a big fan of Pavlik, especially since he's a local guy, but I lost pretty much all my respect for him by how extremely unprofessional he was during this past year. Of course for me personally, the issue at the top of my list is the way he bitched out of the SIGNED contract he had with Sergio Mora. :mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeI agree, I think Martinez would beat Pavlik, and we may get the chance to see it, because I heard that there are already talks for the fight to happen in April. I guess HBO is pushing for it, because I think that they know that a fight between Pavlik and Williams will probably never happen. Williams wants 50% of the purse, because of everything that has happened, and no way will Pavlik and Top Rank agree to that. Plus, it's pretty obvious that HBO has taken to Martinez, and want to get him some more fights on their network.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I used to be a big fan of Pavlik, especially since he's a local guy, but I lost pretty much all my respect for him by how extremely unprofessional he was during this past year. Of course for me personally, the issue at the top of my list is the way he bitched out of the SIGNED contract he had with Sergio Mora. :mad:
Martinez is a beast! It's sad we're all just seeing it now(meaning as of Cintron through the fight with Williams)... He was a hidden tresure to people like myself... I'm sure there's gonna be alot of shit talkers on here that are gonna pop off at the mouth that they knew all about Sergio Martinez a long time ago... Whatever.. Fact is, I knew his name, his record and that's it... When he KNOCKED OUT CINTRON... He opened my eyes... Great boxer... great poise... loose... comfortable... solid boxer... Then came the Williams bout... FUCKING BEST THING THAT HAS HAPPENED TO MATINEZ's career! God bless Martinez! He took a fight at a catch weight agaist a deamon of a fighter. Sad it's happened so late. I know he lost to Margarito but he is not the same fighter... Not at all... I've seen that fight. Martinez is the best natural jr middleweight in the world...:puncher:
Ok all i got to say is this, i think people are overrating Paul and Martinz. I mean sure there good fighters, but they both are there to be hit Paul the most. Also neither has faced a truth prime middle weight either. I can see Pavlik knocking both out at middle weight if it happens. Also just because Hopkins beat Pavlik doesn't mean these to fighters can. That fight was at 170 and Hopkins is more talented then both combined pretty much. Either way won't even know till the fight gets made, so guess we got to wait.
I don't think people are over rating them at this juncture, but giving them what they deserve... Two crowd pleasing guys who both have good skills that no one really wants to fight that put on a good show... I don't see huge Martinez or Williams contingents growing... I just see people giving them their due. Agreed on the not fought a prime middleweight front.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
This is Kelly's make or break year. Let's face it, he had a terrible year last year both in and out of the ring. Moreso out. Yea he has demons. But who doesn't? The question is, can he control them and overcome them?
I suppose we'll find out. The true measure of Pavlik will be how he handles the adversity. How he conducts himself in and out of the ring this year. I haven't given up on him, like I see so many others have. I think he deserves another chance. I think he is capable and has redeeming qualities. Hopefully he does too.
If he screws it up, then he never appreciated the opportunity he had. Much as I believe a majority of boxing fans are fickle and can't wait to bag on and drop a fighter for another or jump on the haterade train, in some cases it is deservedly so. I don't think he is there yet. But after this year we'll see.
I'm still rooting for him.
You have to wonder if Hopkins just laid out the blueprint on how to beat the guy for everyone to see, or if Kelly i sjust feeling like that. I think Jermain Taylor gave him a good run in the rematch and had JT not been so damaged from the battles with Hopkins and the previous KO I could assure you he would have beaten Pavlik. JT just faded out quick, and sometimes that happens to "The man that follows the man".
I think the major issues for Kelly are: he's not fighting often enough, he's in a deadzone in Youngstown, he's gotten thoroughly schooled, and Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez are VERY dangerous fighters right now both could not only beat Pavlik but knock him out, and I think another issue is there's no where for Kelly to run, he's looked like shit above 160...I mean bad enough to the point where you could see a mediocre fighter at 168 totally school him and if that doesn't get fixed 2010 could be Kelly Pavlik's LAST year of boxing especially if he takes another loss as bad or worse than the Hopkins loss.
Hard to take a worse loss than that... I mean, that was a Lacy/ Calzaghe like schooling... I think the only difference was the huge contingent(including me) that thought Lacy was gonna decapitate Joe. Taking anywhere close to another schooling like that would ruin any elite fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I dont think Paul or Martiniz hit as hard as Hopkins. Also Hopkins outboxed Pavlik at 170 and he atg as well. Paul and Martiniz are 154 pounds who dont even have same boxing skill as Hopkins. Also I can easly see Martiniz getting pushed around by Pavlik by his size and power. Then theres Paul who is there to be hit and which while lead to him getting knocked out. Pavlik is far from prefect but i dont see the jr middle weights giving him trouble to be honest.
Well, it was a mixed bag. Espino is a respectable opponent, who has recently languished in obscurity after winning the contender, only then to fight in small clubs in Mexico. His game plane -- Espino, that is -- was all wrong: he wanted to throw with Pavlik, which ultimately led to his demise. I think Espino's stock climbed after the fight and it didn't do much for Pavlik, who should have pressed hard for a rematch with B-Hop after being completely schooled by the crafty, old-school veteran.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggmeister
Don't know if any of you have heard, but Jack Leow's -- Pavlik's trainer -- wife has passed away. My thoughts and prayers go out to Leow and his family.
That being said, I think Pavlik will push for the Williams fight. I've been following Williams pretty close and I think that fight -- if it happens -- can go either way. Williams has the superior footwork and natural athleticism, while Pavlik has the big punch. That isn't to say that Pavlik isn't a fine athlete on his own, I just think Williams is a bit better.
It's a fight that has to be made, and after Williams' last fight, I'm sure Kelly is licking his lips with anticipation. We'll see.
[quote=PRIDE OF BOSTON;831226]The guy has ONE loss on his record and it was to an ATG at 10 pounds above his natural weight class. Don't make too much of that loss. As you mentioned many times, Pavlik had a piss poor 2009. Compare his 2009 coming off the loss to Hopkins and Cotto's 2009 coming off his loss to Margarito. It is night and day. Cotto fought Clottey and Pacquiao. Pavlik fought Espino and Rubio. Pavlik needs to bounce back with a big win over an established opponent. We already know Pavlik is better than any B or C level fighter. No more Rubios or Espinos. That is why I asked you, Lyle, who can Pavlik beat to reestablish himself as one of the sport's best. Williams? Sturm? Martinez?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
It isn't much, but the only thing Pavlik can take away from the Hopkins loss is that he never went down. He may have taken a beating but he had the heart to stand and deal with it for twelve rounds. That shows big-time chin and big-time heart. The difference with the Hopkins/Pavlik and the Lacy/Calzaghe fight/beat down was that Lacy was fighting at his natural weight, mentally Pavlik can chalk up his loss to being outside his natural element at 170 against a great.
I agree with most of this post. However, I like Martinez's boxing skills. I'm not saying he is Hopkins, but he looked good against Williams...at 160. [On a side note, I think Williams negotiated to have the fight at 160 because in my opinion, he knew Martinez may be too much at 154 or at least he wanted every advantage possible.] I can see Martinez giving Pavlik trouble at 160 because Martinez can move and Pavlik will need to catch him to hurt him. Before the Martinez fight, I leaned toward Williams against Pavlik, and I may now too, the difference now only is that I know that if Martinez can hurt Williams, Pavlik can definitely hurt him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Sorry, but I need to correct you on two things....Quote:
Originally Posted by The ShadowWell, it was a mixed bag. Espino is a respectable opponent, who has recently languished in obscurity after winning the contender, only then to fight in small clubs in Mexico. His game plane -- Espino, that is -- was all wrong: he wanted to throw with Pavlik, which ultimately led to his demise. I think Espino's stock climbed after the fight and it didn't do much for Pavlik, who should have pressed hard for a rematch with B-Hop after being completely schooled by the crafty, old-school veteran.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggmeister
Don't know if any of you have heard, but Jack Leow's -- Pavlik's trainer -- wife has passed away. My thoughts and prayers go out to Leow and his family.
That being said, I think Pavlik will push for the Williams fight. I've been following Williams pretty close and I think that fight -- if it happens -- can go either way. Williams has the superior footwork and natural athleticism, while Pavlik has the big punch. That isn't to say that Pavlik isn't a fine athlete on his own, I just think Williams is a bit better.
It's a fight that has to be made, and after Williams' last fight, I'm sure Kelly is licking his lips with anticipation. We'll see.
First, Espino didn't win The Contender, he lost in the first round.
Second, it was Jack Loew's mother that died, not his wife.
Also as a side note, while there are talks in place for Pavlik to fight Martinez in April, I read that Al Haymon, Williams manager, has made an offer for a rematch with Martinez. So it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
If Martinez rematches Williams, is Sturm the only other respectable opponent at 160 for Pavlik?