, random urines tests up through the right, and tests immediately after the fight in his dressing room. Is there enough time for a "cycle" or what not (I'm not well-versed on the subject) between 24 days and the fight? Would any drug he could theoretically take in that time actually affect his performance?
ive been asking that same question man. but somehow when i bring up the question about the validity of the blood draw right after the fight, all the steroid experts go into hiding.
Let's say they did follow this, then let's say Mayweather wins and tests positive AFTER the fight. Is it fair that Mayweather gets his 40 million dollar payday BY MEANS OF being juiced up for the fight? Sure his reputation would be damaged, but he won't suffer because of it, he will in fact be rewarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334
Some test I am sure can be fooled during those time frames but not the type they are administering, I am not really sure exactly how they look for the substances in the blood stream since I am not a doctor or scientist but I do know that DNA testing for substances can not be hidden, If you have any substance in your body that has been used for a long period of time it is almost impossible to hide once they know exactly what it is they are looking for.
A perfect example would be cocaine or Marijuana. In urine testing I believe one stays visible for a week or two, the other 30-90 days, in the blood it raises up to something like a month for one and a year for the other. In hair testing it can remain for years.
In small biopsies of the skin and it takes just a scratch something like steroids can show up for the duration of your life,
Things are so advanced today it is just about impossible to hide anything even after long periods of time
no you just ignore the responses, a test after the fight will be pointless, pac wont be using for the fight as such, ped's are used for training prior to the fight, its not like some magic pill that gives you extra energy ...they are just to get the most out of training possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by josef4334
Travis Tygart, chief executive of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, said a blood test can allow testers to detect use of energy-boosting synthetic EPO, human growth hormone and "a number of potent performance-enhancers not detectable in urine. . . . With a [30-day] window like that, you could dope to the gills and get away with it."
Mayweather seeks strict drug testing for bout with Pacquiao - latimes.com
Travis Tygart, executive director of the USADA, said he had talked to representatives of both fighters about providing testing. Tygart said he welcomed the request as he would for any sport that does not have stringent Olympic-type testing.
"I think every sport that wants to have clean athletes it's a sign of a step forward to have out of competition testing," Tygart said. "It's an essential thing to do if you want to protect the integrity of the sport. Clean athletes want a level playing field."
Tygart noted Olympic athletes are tested often and without notice. He said less than a teaspoon of blood is removed out of an average of 380 teaspoons in the normal human and that it regenerates within an hour of being withdrawn. Blood tests, he said, can find things urine tests cannot, like the use of human growth hormone, synthetic hemoglobin or blood transfusions, all of which "certainly would aid in an endurance-type event".
Manny Pacquiao's blood test refusal puts Floyd Mayweather Jr fight at risk | Sport | guardian.co.uk
Travis Tygart, the chief executive of Usada, said his organization has a checklist that it calls the matrix of effectiveness. It includes blood and urine testing, both in and out of competition. Blood tests, Tygart added, detect prohibited substances like human growth hormone, synthetic hemoglobin, designer EPO and blood transfusions, while urine tests do not.
Pacquiao has agreed to have his blood tested three times: in early January, when the fight was expected to be announced, 30 days before the fight and immediately after it. He also agreed to random urine testing.
But Tygart said the 30-day window would still allow an athlete plenty of time to dope with illegal substances not detectable by urine testing.
“That kind of window is totally unacceptable,” Tygart said. “It would provide a huge loophole for a cheater to step through and get away with cheating.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/sp...r=2&ref=sports
Manny only agreed to 24 days because of the Hatton 24/7 video, but from that fight it's clear that Manny can go on the juice for 24 days and still be as effective as when he gets to juice for 30 days.
where is your link for that information? and maybe i am mis informed about steroids because i dont use it but by you saying "they are trying to get the most out of training" youre implying that he needs to be juiced up during training but not during the fight? where is winning/losing determined? during training or during the fight. its like putting race fuel on your car while you drive it to the track and when you get there you switch to regular gas.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonno you just ignore the responses, a test after the fight will be pointless, pac wont be using for the fight as such, ped's are used for training prior to the fight, its not like some magic pill that gives you extra energy ...they are just to get the most out of training possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by josef4334
and i do agree with daxx. you could always manipulate testing and there are always different kinds of testing. they could ask for a hair testing since thats been proven. you could go all the way to what he took during his fight with barerra. i do believe its a ploy of floyd to they could just poke pac anytime they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Woah. Hatton never even connected on Manny. Manny was schooling him from the get-go and this was no battle of attrition because it only lasted a round.
What I was trying to ask was if Manny acquiesced to random blood tests up until 24 days before the fight and then a test immediately after the fight, is that enough time to take roids, receive the benefits, and then stop taking them in time to pass the test right after the fight given that the drug would have to be one that couldn't be detected by urine tests? The answer may be yes, I'm not sure is all.
i see your point. but for the sake of making the fight. sure pacs offer of 24 days is still way too weak. instead of negotiating, mayweather instantly said no according to sources. he could have said, "no, thats too far off still, how about cut off date of 5 days before the fight?" then they meet somewhere in between. but he always wanted the random testing. and besides, do you think mayweather cares about his reputation. he came in overweight against a much smaller fighter in marquez, then the contract was modified on the fly and he paid a petty 600K fine so he could have the advantage. thats another thread tho so ill stop there.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepLet's say they did follow this, then let's say Mayweather wins and tests positive AFTER the fight. Is it fair that Mayweather gets his 40 million dollar payday BY MEANS OF being juiced up for the fight? Sure his reputation would be damaged, but he won't suffer because of it, he will in fact be rewarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334
so, just to be clear: Manny never agreed to random testing at all? He just agreed to a test 24 days before the fight, once after the fight, and once during the kick-off week?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Woah. Hatton never even connected on Manny. Manny was schooling him from the get-go and this was no battle of attrition because it only lasted a round.
What I was trying to ask was if Manny acquiesced to random blood tests up until 24 days before the fight and then a test immediately after the fight, is that enough time to take roids, receive the benefits, and then stop taking them in time to pass the test right after the fight given that the drug would have to be one that couldn't be detected by urine tests? The answer may be yes, I'm not sure is all.
Did you read the links I posted? He can dope to the gills over 30 days and not get caught. There are a whole bunch of PEDs that are in and out of your system within 48 hours. Read the links.
Yes. He agreed to random urine testing, which doesn't detect a bunch of stuff, but not to random blood testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingYes. He agreed to random urine testing, which doesn't detect a bunch of stuff, but not to random blood testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
HGH cannot be detected in blood but can be in urine that's to my knowledge and the research I have done, HGH is undetectable in blood testing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334where is your link for that information? and maybe i am mis informed about steroids because i dont use it but by you saying "they are trying to get the most out of training" youre implying that he needs to be juiced up during training but not during the fight? where is winning/losing determined? during training or during the fight. its like putting race fuel on your car while you drive it to the track and when you get there you switch to regular gas.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonno you just ignore the responses, a test after the fight will be pointless, pac wont be using for the fight as such, ped's are used for training prior to the fight, its not like some magic pill that gives you extra energy ...they are just to get the most out of training possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by josef4334
and i do agree with daxx. you could always manipulate testing and there are always different kinds of testing. they could ask for a hair testing since thats been proven. you could go all the way to what he took during his fight with barerra. i do believe its a ploy of floyd to they could just poke pac anytime they want.
yes you are misinformed obviously, you take such substances to get the most out of training , allowing you to train harder and longer, cuts out fatigue or any minor injrys, means you can be 110% by fight night, itll be cycled out by fight night
supposedly only after up to 48 hours after taking, however nothing to say HGH is what they need to be looking for so random blood and urine testing is neccesaryQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingYes. He agreed to random urine testing, which doesn't detect a bunch of stuff, but not to random blood testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
HGH cannot be detected in blood but can be in urine that's to my knowledge and the research I have done, HGH is undetectable in blood testing.
Kirkland Laing gives you links and you just ignore them!Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334
You've got it backwards. Can't be detected in urine, can be in blood, but only for 48 hours after taking it.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingYes. He agreed to random urine testing, which doesn't detect a bunch of stuff, but not to random blood testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
HGH cannot be detected in blood but can be in urine that's to my knowledge and the research I have done, HGH is undetectable in blood testing.
EXCLUSIVE: WADA “HGH ONLY DETECTED IN BLOOD”
The fight is lost in training!!!! If you do not train hard then you will lose. Steroids enable your body to heal quicker which allows you train hard more days then you would without them. If you were to take steroids after an intense training session then you are less likely to feel as sore in the morning as you would if you werent dosing. Oh and i know a little about this as i lift weight 5 days a week and body science is a hobby of mine. I dont use steroids but have read up on them quite a bit and have trained with guys who use them so i probably know a little more then you do ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334where is your link for that information? and maybe i am mis informed about steroids because i dont use it but by you saying "they are trying to get the most out of training" youre implying that he needs to be juiced up during training but not during the fight? where is winning/losing determined? during training or during the fight. its like putting race fuel on your car while you drive it to the track and when you get there you switch to regular gas.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonno you just ignore the responses, a test after the fight will be pointless, pac wont be using for the fight as such, ped's are used for training prior to the fight, its not like some magic pill that gives you extra energy ...they are just to get the most out of training possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by josef4334
and i do agree with daxx. you could always manipulate testing and there are always different kinds of testing. they could ask for a hair testing since thats been proven. you could go all the way to what he took during his fight with barerra. i do believe its a ploy of floyd to they could just poke pac anytime they want.
While I find the whole thing to be out nof control, it has gone from a test to random bllod test that is a bit unreasonable, as it is unreasonable for Pacquiaos camp to refuse even one test but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingYes. He agreed to random urine testing, which doesn't detect a bunch of stuff, but not to random blood testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
To have the guy say yeah blood test me at your request as often as you want is not reasonable.....
Yes. If Manny had 24 days, he could take EPO literally up until a couple days of the fight and test negative on a post fight urine or blood test. He could also take HGH up until two days before the fight and not get caught. Blood is the only way to catch HGH now (24hr-48hr window) but interestingly enough, a urine test is being developed that could catch you up to two weeks after you've used but it hasn't been approved. There's probably more but I haven't done enough reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Woah. Hatton never even connected on Manny. Manny was schooling him from the get-go and this was no battle of attrition because it only lasted a round.
What I was trying to ask was if Manny acquiesced to random blood tests up until 24 days before the fight and then a test immediately after the fight, is that enough time to take roids, receive the benefits, and then stop taking them in time to pass the test right after the fight given that the drug would have to be one that couldn't be detected by urine tests? The answer may be yes, I'm not sure is all.
Floyd wanted random testing from when negotiations started in mid-November. And it's not like Manny is going to have to get tested as often as Floyd wants him to and it's not like they'd be using a rusty razor to take two pints at a time. The testing is done by people used to fitting in with athletes' schedules and is completely unobtrusive, it's a couple of minutes when they turn up at the gym. And a complete set of random tests over the period that they'd need to test for would require a total of 9 ml of blood, or less than one-third of one US fluid ounce. And both fighters would be subject to exactly the same number of tests at the same random times so it's not like it gives Floyd any advantage or Manny any disadvantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnWhile I find the whole thing to be out nof control, it has gone from a test to random bllod test that is a bit unreasonable, as it is unreasonable for Pacquiaos camp to refuse even one test but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingYes. He agreed to random urine testing, which doesn't detect a bunch of stuff, but not to random blood testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
To have the guy say yeah blood test me at your request as often as you want is not reasonable.....