Are you idealistic about boxing at all anymore

Idealistic may not be the perfect word for it but whatever

My favorite fighter of all time is James Toney who tested positive twice for steroids. James was a hard fighter to be a fan of, if anything I was just as pissed off about him actually testing positive. How typical of James Toney's career is that? If you're gonna be on steroids at least do it right, don't be so fucking careless, stupid, indifferent, etc., etc., that you actually still manage to test positive when its outright easy to avoid detection under the testing regulations.

Shane Mosley. Nicest guy in the sport, will fight everybody, also a user.

And now I'm not saying Manny is for sure on it but this whole thing is nothing short of disappointing. I know there are some on here that are ecstatic about the whole thing although they'd never say it (oh its bad for boxing LOL) but its just another disappointment to me since its another of my favorite fighters. Manny was in some ways a fight fans dream, who fights a guy like JMM right after beating Barrera, he didn't have to fight him and he did anyway (Floyd wouldn't have FACT) and then he even wanted a rematch. Always fights the best, always exciting, and now this.

And lets face it Manny is coming off like a person with something to hide. Please Pacquaio fans don't bother with the horrible excuses in here, they're kind of embarrassing. And its not totally what this thread is about. Maybe I'm implying that he's guilty until proven innocent. But even if he's not guilty its still disappointing. A)he doesn't want to take the tests cause he's using (most likely but we don't know for sure); B)he refuses to be dictated too which sounds all well and good but it really means he's giving away the boxing fans fight of the century because he doesn't like to be dictated too when he's shown no issues with dictating to other fighters.

Personally I didn't care too much about the Cotto weight. It gave people something to complain about, it wasn't that huge of a deal. But this is really disappointing.

And what the fuck happened to Kassim Ouma? And Juan Diaz just lost to Paulie fucking Malignaggi. :vd: Boxing sucks. ;D I'm gonna go watch the replay of the national championship game.

That was kind of rambling. Maybe incomprehensible. I try to stay out of this hellhole of a sub forum as much as possible so I tried to get it all on paper in one post. Just seems hard not to be cynical about the whole thing.

This is exactly the kind of post I never read :shakehead:

That was the lowpoint when Diaz lost to Malignaggi, and then Malignaggi became like a sympathetic figure.

I know. There's only one sympathetic figure in all of Brooklyn and that's Zab "Super" Judah.

I have fond memories of the thread where I decided to become a Zab Judah fan. http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...judah-fan.html

Would you like a sub board for Down and depressed fans mate?

:lol:

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Originally Posted by Andre

Would you like a sub board for Down and depressed fans mate?

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^lol

Maybe it's time to stop being idealistic and start being realistic. If fans love this sport and want to protect its clean athletes, then we should embrace more conclusive types of testing, at least for championship bouts. Ouma, you may not have been a JMM or Cotto fan, but I am a fan of both and do care that their careers have been affected by the unfair, dirty methods of other fighters (especially in the case of Cotto).

I think that saying that "fighters should do what they can, without getting caught" is a very bad way to think about the sport we love and sportsmanship in general. We as the fans, have the power to make this a serious, competitive sport but it won't happen until we make a stand.

I became a cynic almost as soon as I became a fan. Nothing about this sport surprises me anymore. If someone posted an article which claimed to have proof that Valuev was actually a grizzly bear than was taught to walk on its hind legs and given extensive plastic surgery the only thing that would surprise me would be his lack of power.

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Originally Posted by TheBranMan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andre

Would you like a sub board for Down and depressed fans mate?

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^lol

Maybe it's time to stop being idealistic and start being realistic. If fans love this sport and want to protect its clean athletes, then we should embrace more conclusive types of testing, at least for championship bouts. Ouma, you may not have been a JMM or Cotto fan, but I am a fan of both and do care that their careers have been affected by the unfair, dirty methods of other fighters (especially in the case of Cotto).

I think that saying that "fighters should do what they can, without getting caught" is a very bad way to think about the sport we love and sportsmanship in general. We as the fans, have the power to make this a serious, competitive sport but it won't happen until we make a stand.

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LOL, that's not at all what I was talking about but ok. I am totally fine with more conclusive testing.

My point was I don't know why anybody would have blind faith in a fighter these days. Not that I ever really did but this "oh he's a great guy he wouldn't do that shit" just isn't realistic. I am a fan of Cotto actually, not so much JMM but I like him, but would it surprise anybody to find out after being possibly cheated twice that he was on PED's the whole time? Wouldn't surprise me cause it wouldn't surprise me about anybody. Before the psychos start swarming around I don't have any reason to think he is, just making the point cause he's seen as a guy who has been cheated.

No, I am not idealistic anymore. It's like with life, you start off idealistic and gradually the realisation that corruption and greed is everywhere begins to whittle away at you. It's not like in the films where the good guy wins in the end. The crooks have it all and they are here to stay.

I've also been a huge Toney fan, but it really pissed me off when he was caught for using drugs. And then he did it again! It's cheating, plain and simple. I've never seen the appeal in cheating. I have never done it and I struggle to understand the thinking of people that do it. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that what I did was flawed and illegal. Where is the satisfaction in that? It's a hollow victory.

Yep, Mosley too. Comes across as a really likeable guy, but another one that got caught out. I was always against Manny because this is boxing and you have to support your own fighters, but I always recognised that he comes across as a fairly decent chap. However, coming across as a fairly likeable chap just doesn't cut it anymore. He is another one acting up like a crook. Maybe guilty, maybe not. But the actions are not suggestive of someone with nothing to hide.

Al berrnstein's article is such a relief.

BOXINGTALK

I really like Al and I agree with some of his points about Manny improving his technique as he went along and that just cause he's done well moving up doesn't mean he should be cast as a drug user but he ignores the gigantic elephant in the room.

Why won't he just take the blood tests?

Saying he hasn't failed a test yet is really just deflection. There are ways to get around the standard tests. Everyone knows it. Its not even worth discussing.

Saying it would disrupt his training is the only semi-viable excuse and its really not a very good one.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

I really like Al and I agree with some of his points about Manny improving his technique as he went along and that just cause he's done well moving up doesn't mean he should be cast as a drug user but he ignores the gigantic elephant in the room.

Why won't he just take the blood tests?

Saying he hasn't failed a test yet is really just deflection. There are ways to get around the standard tests. Everyone knows it. Its not even worth discussing.

Saying it would disrupt his training is the only semi-viable excuse and its really not a very good one.

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Surprising exactly what humans choose to believe in order to not have to face up to some things (mainly the truth).



:bag:The world is a dark place"! " :spongebob:mate you got a bag on your head"

It's true. Boxing pisses me of! The best don't fight the best and the amount of corruption is sickening.

This probably killed my last bit of idealism about boxing. As a kid, my favourite fighters were Roy Jones Jr, Diego Corrales, Floyd Mayweather Jr & Shane Mosley. Shane was my favourite, I used to try & base my whole style around him. I was still only young when Roy tested positive, but it really bothered me, even if I told myself it might not be so bad, I couldn't really root for him again.

It was finding out Shane did it that killed most of my idealism. I've spent years telling myself he didn't know, but the harsh reality that has dawned on me particularly since researching more on the BALCO incident in the last year has basically told me that there is no way that he didn't know what was up. It's why I can understand how Pac-fans are reacting, because I know that feeling of finding out something about your favourite fighter, even if obviously Pac might not be guilty & just has a phobia about taking blood that only manifests itself 24 days before a fight.

But, yeah as I said in another post, even if I wasn't necessarily a Pacquiao fan, he had provided me with some memorable moments & the feeling I now have is they might have been worth fuck all. Aw well, I'll get over it.

I'll just do what I always do. Blame Bob Arum.

When I was a youngster every thing was black and white, you were on one side or another and I thought that's how life was, but its not is it, every thing has a swerve to it and the higher up you go the more people's morals are up for grabs, with large sums of cash on offer if you do so, it is a damm shame but that's the way it is and after the debacle with Manny n Floyd not getting it on that's another nail in the coffin for boxing, if you ask me, this whole scenario should not have been made public, it didn't have to be this way, this wouldn't of been in the public eye twenty years ago, there would of been a press release stating terms offered are not agreeable and boxing would not have been tarnished like it has over this latest drug scandal.
As for who is to blame for the fight not happening I blame the commissions, the promoters and then the training teams. The commissions make the rules and with drug testing only being a urine one, that is twenty years behind the times, random blood tests are the only way forward, all title fights should have random blood testing. The promoters are wrong to leak misinformation and lies to the press and finally the training teams who know there fighters are on Peds and don't say a thing, to me Peds are just as bad as Margos loaded wraps.
Now I look back on some great fighters and think what where they taking, its tarnished every fighter to a greater or lesser degree.

Although boxing should have random blood testing, I don't think the sport not having it is behind other sports.

The NBA, NFL, MLB are the 3 biggest sports leagues in th US but they don't have random blood testing either (I could be wrong on this).

It would be good for the sport to do this though. Btw, since someone mentioned it, Barry Bonds did fail a drug test in the early 2000s and McGwire was seen with Andro in his locker during the '99 season. It just wasnt big news.