Printable View
Hello all,
I am new to the forums, and have recently taking up boxing. I am a Southpaw, and I have heard arguments both 'for' and 'against' it. I understand that as a boxer, I must develop my own style based upon my own strengths and character, but I would be interested to hear some opinions on the Southpaw subject. Good or bad? Advantageous or disadvantageous?
So, what do you all think?
Personally I think Southpaws have a big advantage since they're pretty rare in boxing, from my knowledge anyway, and simply because of that most people aren't used to the difference in reach and stance simply because they're a southpaw. I myself am lucky enough to be able to switch between Orthodox and Southpaw stance as I see fit, even though I am an Orthodox boxer, it's a nice trick to have to catch them off guard.
A disadvantage would be that you would be mostly fighting Orthodox boxers, so meeting a Southpaw like yourself, could probably confuse yourself. Other than that, just develop your own style over time and it will be fine, don't worry about being Southpaw or Orthodox.
welcome to the forum too.
I think generally you have the advantage because most naturals train with naturals more often.
You also train with naturals more often too so there lies the main advantage.
But it ends there because its like fighting yourself but in mirrored fashion so its down to individual skills after that unless you have studied the adjustments required and take an advantage because they havent.
I like the sword fighting mental challenges of front arms both in cross style and in parallel as well. The fact you are turning into their strong hands range when throwing the your own rear shot takes a certain awareness.
I think the real art of doing it well doesnt just stop at the initial adjustment and awareness ,you can build more into it too, stuff like choking out their arm with your glove in between hitting them and moving.Catching them with their feet dead square to where they are facing if you slip to the inside and catch them with a hook straight to the face etc, you get more power from doing that from a mirrored position but you time off their reaction to something else.
Theres alot to play with.
In Mma there is even more because they only have to give you a glimpse of the rear of their front leg and that is reached so fast with a right leg facing a left leg or visa versa.So it pays to adjust as they are moving and know where there front foot is going to land. Front elbow and front leg effects their balance dramatically. If you can upset their balance even slightly you can move and have them within in that minor disruption.(goes for boxing too ,by moving their elbow slightly just before their same foot touches the canvas)South vs natural makes that easier to do.
Hows life fighting other southpaws anyway? Any others there to spar with?
Thanks for the replies :)
In regards to my own style, I am predominantly a Southpaw, and fight as such, but I am able to switch to Orthodox when the situation demands it. However, I am more comfortable with my natural left-handed stance.
In regards to your post Andre, Most of my sparring partners are Orthodox. There is one other left-hander, but he prefers Orthodox fighting.
Any tips for fighting Southpaw (such as keeping your left hand up to guard against the inevitable right to the face) would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again for the replies ;D
You should have been killed at birth. But seeing you made it thru, enjoy your advantage. I suppose. kinda. No. Seriously. FU. jk. ;)
A practical reason not to go southpaw: there are a lot more people out there with a lot more knowledge to share if you are orthodox. Even good and great trainers are very basic when it comes to teaching a southpaw. It is not the same thing only in reverse as some like to say.
You should elaborate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadi Astthorsson
I don't mean to be coy, I'm just dealing with an injury that leaves me a little exhausted!Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreYou should elaborate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadi Astthorsson
Basically the difference between foot-positioning of southpaw vs orthodox and orthodox vs orthodox is more than a minor difference.
I'll be happy elaborate further when I get my head cleared.
You take a hit? You ok?
I agree it is much more than a minor difference, in relating it to fighting a mirrored image,I was relaying that the opposition has the same advantages and disadvantages to face also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadi AstthorssonI don't mean to be coy, I'm just dealing with an injury that leaves me a little exhausted!Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreYou should elaborate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadi Astthorsson
Basically the difference between foot-positioning of southpaw vs orthodox and orthodox vs orthodox is more than a minor difference.
I'll be happy elaborate further when I get my head cleared.
Contact range from head to fist and fist to fist of contact of gloves is very differrent as is the angle in relation to the opposition.
The front foot is an obstacle at times too,but like I said Ive found the front foot can be pegged by the front arm being controlled.
To be honest; personally I havent been taught the intricacies of any hard rules that would form a mindset to go on when facing an opposite stance but I would love to find out.
The only time I can remember going south myself was around someones move so when Ive experienced being in south it has been for a reason on the oppositions reaction only.
Be great to share any knowledge you have ,thanks.
I sprained the medial collateral ligament in my GOOD knee, and have a tear in my ACL. It's the swelling that's bothering me. Dog-tired all the time.
Mirrored is actually the right way to put it... I WILL elaborate later. :)
I hope that it feels better soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadi Astthorsson
Best wishes.
I do agree that fighting Southpaw is inherently different to Orthodox, and not just the 'mirror-image' that many people think it is. When I switch between the two, they feel different. Because I am a natural left-hander, Southpaw feels stronger and more stable. However, I also find that the placing of your feet and guard is a huge issue. I used to have to think about it all the time (thankfully, I am getting into the habit now).
Regards to footwork, when sparring I usually circle to the right, trying to keep my right foot on the outside of my opponent's left foot. I find that it puts my opponent within my range and also partially nullifies their ability to throw a hard right.
Thanks for the comments, and best wishes for your knee Dadi :)
[If my post is an unwelcome hijacking of the thread, I will be happy to start a new thread, but I think people already following this one are in a position to discuss it with intelligent experience...]
I came here tonight specifically to post asking:
What would you recommend to someone who wants to train to switch from Orthodox to Southpaw and back while fighting, i.e., to fight BOTH ways?I thought this my be an incredibly naive question, but several people have indicated they do this to their own advantage.
But I really do think this could offer a (nearly) unique strategy and provide an increased set of tactics for dealing with a wider range of opponents and situations.
Background: I am an older guy [57], so I am never going to fight serious amateur much less pro. I am somewhat bidextrous (not fully ambidextous) in most things anyway, and although I write left handed I have generally thrown, batted, and boxed right handed.
I have only been boxing 2 months, and I am trying to gain technical accuracy (for now) while developing speed and power, but I have a background in (a bunch of) martial arts, especially Systema (Russian Martial Arts) where handedness is discouraged.
(I also do AMOK! knife defense and fighting and generally do that left handed for the tactical advantage against right handed knifers -- but this usually means fighting from a stance that resembles a right handed boxer since generally the knife hand is best kept as the forward hand. But in AMOK! I definitely fight both ways -- it's a practical requirement of the art.)
The last two practices I have switched to left handed (and back) when it suited me while working on the heavy bag with no apparent issues -- my footwork and punches seem to be just about the same (they are pretty sharp for a beginner.)
Boxing on the other side seemed almost as natural on one side as on the other -- almost as if I had been practicing both all along.
Confession: I generally switch when my front hand gets tired -- not for comfort however, but when it is so tired that my form is suffering significantly.
The differences in punch count and technique is enough to give me the ability to restore my form with the other hand.
Note: I am NOT doing this to get out doing the work, but rather to learn both techniques and to keep good form. I work hard on the bag for every punch.
If learning both sides is a good idea, what sorts of footwork works best for the transitions? (Is it as simple as stepping forward [or back] at right time even though I have been taught not to cross my feet when stepping? Or is this something you only do when you separate from the other fighter?
I really prefer the idea of being able to switch while attacking and pressuring forward or circling outside but don't know what I don't know about this topic.
So any ideas and suggestions will be appreciated....
Thanks.
--
HerbM
HerbM, this is exactly the way I fight. You are right, it opens up an entirely new side of offense and defense at the same time, while allowing you to put an immense amount of pressure on your opponent.
The simplest way to practice this, in my head. (Note that this style came natural to me, so I just did it from the start.) You just practice taking a step forward with your other leg, and that will automatically make you get into a Southpaw stance, it's the same stance, just mirrored by a simple step forward. Don't cross the legs or do a small jump to change legs, it has to be a smooth transition. So just a step forward with the other leg, same stance, and practice.
That is probably the easiest way to practice it, just do it every now and then, get used to it, and then start doing it for technique at specific times. When you get good at it, you can do it so smoothly the opponent won't notice and all of a sudden the distance he was used to, has dramatically changed, but for you. It's still going to feel natural.
Hope this helped.
Thanks -- tonight at class I sometimes forgot which hand was forward -- I would just start jabbing and adding combos and have to ask myself which side I was on. Tells me that either side feels good since there is nothing to remind me I am on the 'wrong' side.
Ok, so just step forward.
Another thing I -- think that I -- like to do is to use a circle step with the back leg towards the (current) power hand side and let it slide up a little with a jab from the (old) front hand then a jab from the new front hand as the trailing leg catches up and moves back a little. The idea is to be going around the opponent during the switch.
Is this good? Bad?
It is good, but also predictable after it's been done once or twice if your opponent is aware of it.
What I like to do is turtle up, and after they've punched my guard a little I step back with my leading leg, thus changing stance, without the opponent noticing most likely because he is too busy focusing on my guard. The trick to using this Southpaw/Orthodox switch in a match, is distraction, and making it as smooth and unnotice-able as possible. That's the only way to keep catching the opponent off guard every time.
What you're doing is good, but after two or three times of doing it, a boxer who isn't groggy would probably notice. Try changing it as the opponent steps around you instead, when I do it, it makes them feel cornered, because I'm always directly in their face never giving them a chance to circle around.
Just try and be creative, there are tons of ways to do this without the opponent noticing, and if you learn how to switch at will and you have techniques for distracting them, you can keep doing it over and over in different ways and they will be confused the entire match.
Depends on your own level of experience. I wouldnt do it straight away. learn all the basics then experiment once you have bred your own style from the true form of the art of boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbM
Otherwise you may end up only cagey or simply hard to hit because you are unpredictable and erratic; but someone who keeps their cool sticks to the basics ,who then only opens up fully on your reactions to the jab will control your ass whatever you try to pull in regards to switching.
Personally I wouldnt attempt it,to show off, or to see what happens next. or to attempt to confuse him at a long distance, or at the start of a fight or if its a type of fight that is still at full speed in mid range.
Its about distance,switching is all about distance and the controls at hand that vary as you switch.
If you practice with your hands behind your back or down relaxed in front of decent reactive puncher as a sparring partner that you can trust, you'll soon learn when you can and which way you cannot switch.
Half switching is like a side stance and is very open depending on if you do it stupidly when your opponent is directly in front of you and hasnt thrown a thing.
But if he is off your center line, (where you are facing to) and has already expended his lead arm you could be in that position already throwing the reply in safety for that moment and going to full switch o the second blow.
You can fully switch out of trouble by pulling your front foot around the back of your rear foot as you throw the now front hand.
Or then re-correcting your now front foot out as you counter around the outside of his arm. That move can take your head out of range and around from the inside of someones arm to the outside of their arm but you have to adjust your footwork as you go.
You can use it when in real tight both squared up and banging it out,you have your back caught on the ropes ,Its one you dont see used often in modern boxing.
You pull a foot back behind you as you sit into the ropes and it gives you an esccape route and an opening to bang up as you leave with your trailing arm and if you pull the foot that under that trailing arm back around to your side again you will be there to catch him as he turns towards you to see where you have gone.
Also you can pull say your left leg back ,sit on the ropes and then cover up or better still lightly control his left arm,push into center and duck out under it the opposite way instead, on his reaction to you. So you go out under his left arm and take off on your right foot away,completely out of reach and away from his other arm. Works both sides both ways.
Thanks guys.
I am so new that I wasn't even practicing switching during any kind of sparring -- just on the bag, and only at (fairly) long intervals.
So for now, it wasn't so much to be tricky, or cagey, but just to have both arms/sides/legs work well.
Doing it on the bag you pretty much have to either to it going forward or around -- no one is pressuring me or trying to go around me (yet).
Even the little bit of SHADOW sparring the coach lets me (and the other beginners do), I keep to the VERY basics and concentrate of good form. Coach doesn't let newbies hit or get hit.
The advice about making the switch natural or or even cutting off the opponent fits right into my Systema background -- in Systema you don't 'take a stance' but rather move out of the way in a fairly natural (but always balanced) posture and hit with anything that can find a target from any direction.
[Of course there are no rules in Systema so you can go behind and strike from there and use the legs, feet, elbows or even the head to deliver blows.]
Thanks so much.
Your right, Its much better suited to Mma etc like when someone is targeting your front leg, you switch as they throw the leg so your leg is clear and you got them around the outside as they land over commited.Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbM
If an elbow lands and they back out, you switch as you land the rear elbow so its like two wind mills one up the inside of their guard and the next around the outside of their guard.
Hey Steve
I'll keep this short. Southpaws who know how to use what they've got provide orthodox boxers with all the trouble they need. A prime reason for this is that an orthodox boxer is used to dealing with jabs coming in from the right of centre (which is why they often use their right hand to block/parry the jab before responding with their own punches). When they fight a southpaw, the jab comes at them from the left of centre, forcing them to 'paw' at the incoming jabs with their left hand, a wholly unnatural action.
So, to maximise your advantage, fire fast, hard jabs (doubles and trebles) whilst moving gradually to your right, always seeking to keep your right foot to the right of your opponent's lead foot (left). Sometimes you'll stand on your opponent's lead foot, entirely by accident of course, but it all helps to annoy!!!! After a coupe of bursts of jabs, look to unload that backhand, either bolt straight or with a long-range hook.
Use it wisely, only about 1 in 9 people are left-handed, they are just not that common! Obviously, you will occasionally meet another southpaw. When that happens, I'm sure you'll work it out!!!!!
Good luck and stick at it mate.
Fran
Thanks a bunch Fran (and everyone else). I need to work on my jab, I think. Being a guy with arms better suited on a gorilla, my jab may end up being a key strike :lickish:
Thanks for the tips all. Much appreciated ;D
You also try out different things with your jabs. Pop them on their gloves, and depending on their reaction you'll have an opening that you can go for. Maybe you can do this while moving to your right as you be better able to get a right hook in around your opponent's guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteve86
A little dangerous but worthwhile, why not try parrying jabs with your right glove. Say, you bat their jab down, and counter over it with your right, like a sort of fencing move (riposte?).
I'm going to wait with the reply until after I finish my new video. It will take a lot less time to explain what I want to try and say if I can contrast it with something visual.