Super heavy? Super stupid

By Eric Raskin


RingTv.com



The heads of three major sanctioning bodies a few weeks ago discussed the possibility of instituting a super heavyweight division to accommodate giants like the Klitschko brothers, meaning the existing heavyweight division would have a weight limit. Of course, the alphabet bodies like the idea of an 18th weight class at least in part because added sanctioning fees would make them richer. However, if they go through with it, it could be harmful to the sport on many levels.
It wasn’t easy, but somehow the cretins running boxing’s for-profit sanctioning bodies – men and women gifted with the divine ability to turn wine into water, diamonds into coal and Ricky Frazier into a mandatory – have succeeded in turning the word “super,” a term previously free of negative connotations, into one of the most dreaded words in the English language.

It started nearly a decade ago with the WBA’s introduction of the “super champion” concept, whereby they found a way to give title belts to two fighters in the same division. And it threatens to get worse in the months ahead if the alphabets succeed in creating a “super heavyweight” division.

The heads of the WBA, WBC and IBF, Gilberto Jesus Mendoza, Jose Sulaiman and Marian Muhammad, respectively (that’s the only way you’ll ever see the seven letters that form the word “respect” share a sentence with those names), met in Cancun earlier this month to see whether they could more effectively rape and pillage our sport. One order of business was initial discussion of introducing a super heavyweight division.

It doesn’t take a genius to see why this idea would appeal to the alphabets: An 18th weight class equals new opportunities to extract sanctioning fees.

But if you’re a boxing fan, this idea should hold zero appeal. Those sanctioning fees won’t land in your pocket. And the value of what once was the most prestigious title in all of sports – heavyweight champion of the world – will be rendered almost nonexistent.

We all know hard times have fallen upon the heavyweight division in recent years. But as bad as things are, splitting the heavyweight division in two will make it even worse. It could become so bad that we someday look wistfully back upon the bygone Klitschko Brothers era as something we wish we could recapture.

For starters, consider the talent pool. There isn’t enough to properly populate one heavyweight division right now. Look at the RING rankings. Alexander Dimitrenko and Tony Thompson are both still in the Top 10. If you divide the division into “heavyweights” (presumably with a weight limit of 220 or 225 pounds) and “super heavyweights,” you’re making each division twice as diluted as heavyweight currently is.

Almost everyone agrees that the NBA and NHL have over-expanded and watered down their products, but at least they did so just a couple of teams at a time; they didn’t go around doubling the number of teams in the league. That’s approximately what the creation of a super heavyweight division would do from a depth-of-talent perspective.

And following right in line, the addition of a super heavyweight division would destroy the cachet of titles in either weight class. Suddenly, “heavyweight” would become a second-rate title, given approximately the respect that “cruiserweight” is given now. And “super heavyweight” would not inherit all of the prestige “heavyweight” once held, because there is no history behind the term.

Imagine that you’re one of the Klitschkos. If your heavyweight belts are suddenly replaced with super heavyweight belts, then you’re no longer a part of the same all-time-great discussions as Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali. Every debate about where to rank you among the legends of the division becomes complicated and perhaps altogether moot. Is Vitali Klitschko a Top-25 all-time heavyweight? Well, he’s not a heavyweight at all, so can we really have that discussion?

Similarly, if the 220-pound Alexander Povetkin claims one of the new “heavyweight” titles, can he be properly assessed in the annals of history if he never has to defend his belt against the best big men of his era, namely the Klitschkos?

There’s an argument out there that it isn’t fair for 220-pounders to fight 250-pounders, that they don’t stand a chance of winning. We heard some of this chatter after Cris Arreola lost to Vitali Klitschko last September (it was a rather comical argument since Arreola was himself a 250-pounder, just not as tall a 250-pounder as Klitschko) and then ironically we heard it again after Arreola was the bigger man pummeling 218-pound Brian Minto in December.

If Minto feels he’s too small to compete against these guys, well, it’s not like anybody’s forcing him to fight them. He can go ahead and compete exclusively against guys like Povetkin, Eddie Chambers, Ruslan Chagaev or David Haye. But he’ll find that the results are the same. He’ll lose to those fighters because he’s just not as good as them. Minto is an honest heavyweight who tries hard and can beat some of the B-level guys, but he’s not at the world-class level.

History has shown us that smaller heavyweights who are world-class fighters can beat heavyweights who have three or four inches and 20 or 30 pounds on them. How else would you explain Lennox Lewis getting knocked out by both Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman? Or Wladimir Klitschko getting KO’d by Lamon Brewster? Or Vitali Klitschko losing to Chris Byrd? Jack Dempsey hammered Jess Willard, and Max Baer brutalized Primo Carnera. More recently, Chambers schooled Dimitrenko. And Haye outpointed Nikolai Valuev despite giving away nine inches and 99 pounds.

The Klitschkos are obviously much better fighters than Dimitrenko and Valuev, but the reason they keep winning isn’t that 220-pound heavyweights can’t beat them. It’s that at this moment there aren’t any 220-pound heavyweights good enough. We likely wouldn’t be having this discussion about whether the Klitschkos are too big for everyone if Ali or Larry Holmes or a prime Evander Holyfield were around right now.

Yes, times have changed, athletes have grown and most 195-pounders wouldn’t stand a chance against the Klitschkos. But that problem was already addressed with the creation – and later, the 10-pound limit increase – of the cruiserweight division. (And you’d still have a hard time convincing me that Louis, at about 202 pounds, wouldn’t have a realistic shot at upending one of the Klitschko brothers.)

Should we penalize Wladimir and Vitali by inventing this new division just because the current 220-pounders aren’t good enough to beat them?

Lurking within that question is the solution to this potential super heavyweight problem: As the most powerful – and, importantly, the most financially valuable – names in the heavyweight division, the Klitschkos need to stand up to the alphabet boys. Wladimir holds two alphabet belts. Vitali holds one. If they refuse to play ball, if they talk to Sulaiman or Muhammad or Mendoza before this thing becomes official and they tell them, “We’re heavyweights and we’re not paying sanctioning fees on super heavyweight titles,” then there’s a good chance this atrocious idea never gets off the ground.

Wladimir and Vitali, the boxing world needs you to step up right now. I don’t know exactly where I’d rank you among the all-time heavyweights. But it’s up to you guys to make sure I’m at least engaging in that discussion after your careers are over.

Ug, as long as the end result is the lords of the land making more money in sanctioning fees you know they will do everything in their power to make it happen.

I honestly think boxing should go back to the way it was with only a few weight divisions. Flyweight, Bantamweight, Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Middleweight, Light heavyweight, bump the cruiserweight up to 210lbs, then heavyweight. I am so sick of these 14 different belt organizations with these ridiculous weight divisions.
Let's be honest is there any difference between 122 and 126? If you answer yes you should be slapped.


Now that I vented a little bit. No I don't think there should a super heavyweight division but I do think cruiserweight should be moved up like I had previously stated.

There has never been a weight limit in the HW division. I say a prime Ali or a 21 year old Tyson could beat any of the HWs today and Tyson was only around 220 and Ali around 215. Even a 208 Holyfield (his prime weight) would be able to beat the Klit brothers.

We have to say thank you to the WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO for expanding the weight classes to 17 and having 4 champs per division. That's the problem right there.

If this happens then boxing will never become the huge attraction it once was ever again!

A few weight divisions they can get rid of would be the ones separated by 3 or 4 pounds as someone mentioned already. Weight classes separated by at least 5 pounds or more keep them like the jr. lightweights, jr. welterweights, jr. middleweights, supermiddleweights, etc. They can also get rid of the strawweight and jr. flyweight classes and have the flyweight class as the lowest weight class.

The author of the article makes a valid point that the expansion of weight classes just like the expansion of teams for certain sports have diluted the talent level.

Boxing would get rid of many problems if they trimmed it down to something like 11 or 12 weight classes with just 1 champ per divison.

Hell with boxing the state that is in, I wouldn't be surprised if the alphabet gangs ceated an pound for pound division.

The fact that a Cruiserweght just beat the biggest Heavyweight in the world for a world title should suggest there is no need for a Super-Heavyweght division. We can barely put together a Heavyweight division, so what is the point of splitting it in half?

And consider the weights of the fighters that most recently beat Wladimir Klitschko:

Lamon Brewster 226


Corrie Sanders 225

I agree we need to bump up the weight of the cruisers & get rid of these timy increase lower weights! less weights & 1 title per division is the way to get boxing back on top!

regarding the heavyweight division i remember when u could pick up a book & look at every heavyweight champ all thru history (cos there was only 1 belt) now its a fkin mess & super heavy would make it 10 times worse.

i started a thread asking was it time for a superheavy catergary & i got slated & rightly so!

Ridiculous.............

I think HBO and showtime need to agree not to acknowledge this crap.

I would vote that in 10 years they create the seriously super heavyweight belt as well. As all credibility is lost, why not going to the end in that remark?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut

I think HBO and showtime need to agree not to acknowledge this crap.

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But think of the problem it would create. If my understanding is correct they have a contract with the Klitschkos so they would be obligated to broadcast or just cough up the cash. So given the diluted nature of a super heavyweight division, HBO and Showtime should step up and say no as well. The ABC titles must make a nice amount of cash off their associations with the two networks.

Klits are tall and big but shit I'm not even sure they'd fall in the super heavy category, it would mostly be short fat guys to lazy to get in shape...dum fuckin idea but hey could we expect anything else from the sanctioning bodies...how did they ever come to control the sport...

How bout boxers concentrate more on offensive defense like slipping the jab and getting inside, head movement of any sought on the way in. This is where the problem is, its not the size of the fighter. The heavies just need to improve their skill set, gone are the days of just walk in and hit hard. I say anyone with good head movement would trouble wlad, he is no where near cofident on the inside and nor should he be...hes 6'6 and if hes fighting on the inside then hes got a fuckin problem coz that shouldnt be his gameplan. Exactly like if your 6'2 and fighting Wlad and your on the outside then you should just quit now, thats not how you beat someone with a height advantage.

Fuck the idea of a super heavyweight division, its just fuckin stupid.

No Super-Heavyweight division is needed, absolutely NOT, and Jose Sulaiman has been one of the most cursed scourges to Boxing in history.

Why has 5'9" fat, old, blown up middleweight James Toney without heavyweight power been able to successfully compete with modern Heavyweights?

How did 6', feather-fisted, blown up 168 pounder Chris Byrd become a Heavyweight title holder in the New Millennium ?

Who gave 6'5" 244 lb Lennox Lewis his toughest fights?
Rahman and McCall aren't giants.
6'2" Holyfield was a natural 188 pounder who bulked up to about 215.

Ruslan's only 6'1"
Sultan Ibragimov is usually below 220 lbs.

David Haye is 215.


Size is only an advantage to the point where it compromises speed, athleticism, and endurance.

A lot of these 244 lbs Heavyweights these days carry a helluva lot of fat into the ring with them too; if they actually trained that fat off the way fighters in other weight-classes do, almost all of these guys would be in the 205 to 225 lbs range.



It p!$$es me off to see dead-heads like these sanctioning bodies getting together to further damage boxing in their transparent effort to make a few extra dollars.



EDIT:
Let's also not forget another aging former middleweight champ, 5'11" Roy Jones, successfully taking a Heavyweight title in the modern era.

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But keep in mind that if a Super heavyweight division is formed then the two people most affected would be the two best heavyweights right now in the Klitschko bros. who are not fat and out of shape.

No way!
If a super heavyweight division is created, it immediately destroys the kudos of the heavyweight division.
I know the Klits have headlined in the bore-athon in the heavyweight division over the last few years, but surely there is light at the end of the tunnel. A Haye v Vlad fight would be the biggest attraction in that division for years.
Perhaps HDBO et al, have all forgotten just how big an event a "good" world heavyweight is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTMatty

No way!
If a super heavyweight division is created, it immediately destroys the kudos of the heavyweight division.
I know the Klits have headlined in the bore-athon in the heavyweight division over the last few years, but surely there is light at the end of the tunnel. A Haye v Vlad fight would be the biggest attraction in that division for years.
Perhaps HDBO et al, have all forgotten just how big an event a "good" world heavyweight is.

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agree completely

historic matchups like valuev-haye would never happen because valuev would have to lose a certain amount of weight to fight him.

Super heavyweight division would just be the creation of a freak show where rare entitys like someone who`s over 7 foot tall or 300pounds big would scrap with eachother

The creation of SUPER Heavyweight division would be tragically ironic.
Having said that, i do still welcome the idea of essentially bridging the Gap between Cruiserweights and the Big Men... Whole heartedly AND with a passion.

Would it be so bad if there was a Super Cruiserweight Division ???

I think there was.Booby Czyz.Super hvy has been kicked around forever.Late 90's I remember Kellerman every single week running on about its need with all of the 'Huge' hvys coming up.What was lost was that Goofy whitaker,Grant,Wolfgram pretty much amounted to busts.Size is overrated,strictly speaking of boxers of course.

Its not needed.The capable 'smaller' hvys can rise to the occasion and compete with the best.Just another division in a sea of far to many already.

Boxing needs another weight class like it needs another governing body, belt, Don King, John Ruiz... Christ this is too easy.