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Apparently, Hatton has split from Lee Beard because he left training Matthew Hatton, in order to train Joan Guzman.
Ricky Hatton Dumps Lee Beard, Wants New Trainer - Boxing News
It would be good if Jimmy could illuminate more on this.
Anyway what do you think of it as a career move if it is true & how should Hatton go with now?
....Fenech or if he's really hurting Rooney
I agree Fenech would be a good choice. I think Rooney also isn't a bad choice, although if Floyd Sr couldn't get him to move his head, I don't see how anyone else can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I personally think he should go with someone like Dan Birmingham, I think he could find something to work with Hatton's existing style.
Roach
He doesnt overhaul you like Sr. He just concentrates of what you have. All those interviews means nothing anyway Hatton should not take it personally and get Roach.
Beard is just a yes man in my eyes anyway, so I'm glad he is out. Rooney would be a fun partnership, but I have a hard time seeing that come off. Fenech was a pretty good suggestion from Lyle too.
I would love to see Billy Graham back in the fold, but that is obviously never going to happen with too much having passed in recent years. Hatton was always a pretty good boxer prior to Tsyzu, it's a shame he has resorted to hit and hold mode ever since. At 31 and currently looking like Mr Blobby, I just hope he gets through the next fight okay. It's a shame that Hatton has never looked after himself between fights. It's probably taken half a decade off of his career.
Screw that. I can think of nothing worse than being trained by that ginger, drooling goon. Hatton going to Roach would be like Hopkins, Toney and Tyson going to him. An ageing fighter pointlessly turning to a cash hungry coach who really has nothing to offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Roach is a one trick pony, he is just lucky that his trick is Manny Pacquiao. Drugs probably help too.
I think it's a bit severe there. Every fighters that went on with Roach did improve significantly, except perhaps Tyson who stayed the same but Tyson being Tyson, nobody could have done anything for that. I still rate Roach as the most able coach at the moment despite his part time loud mouth (which I think is mostly to catch fire instead of his boxers but it is debatable).Quote:
Originally Posted by milesScrew that. I can think of nothing worse than being trained by that ginger, drooling goon. Hatton going to Roach would be like Hopkins, Toney and Tyson going to him. An ageing fighter pointlessly turning to a cash hungry coach who really has nothing to offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Roach is a one trick pony, he is just lucky that his trick is Manny Pacquiao. Drugs probably help too.
Back on Topic, a good coach for Hatton would be Pat Burns or Shields I think. If he could go German, training with Uli Wegner could be excellent as one of the first thing he would learn would be to keep his hands up... which is good for a guy unable to move head.
Back to Floyd Senior, at least 24/7 would then be worth watching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
Hmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Ok, well this is a tough one because I know of two sides to this tale. I know Paul Speak was telling me that there was a slight rift with Lee and maybe he had become a little too big for his boots. I know Paul and Lee fell out a couple of times, but then again, Billy hated Speakie, so nothing new there. I was also told that this was about money, of which I can believe.
I always found Lee to be very technically astute, and always looking out for Ricky's well-being. Also, he wouldnt train Rick unless he felt Ricky was going to listen to him and give it 100%, I'm not sure he felt either was going to be the case. I know Lee had text Rick whilst he was away on a few occasions asking him whether or not he would be training him once he got back. By all accounts, he never even received any replies back.
Bearing in mind,like I said last week about Lee going to train Guzman after a massive recommendation from Tim Coleman, this left Lee two options. He was also scouted by a fighter called Mendes, who is apparently a hot prospect, but I'm not sure who he is to be honest, I'm guessing he's fighting out of the States though.
The bottom line is that if Lee was going to train Ricky then he would stay in the UK and train Richard and Matthew. If he didnt get the Rick gig, then he'd move to the states and train Coleman, Guzman and Mendes. He wasnt prepared to stay in the UK just to train Matthew when his name is becoming hot stuff on the other side of the pond. Lee Beard, although not a household name really is a brilliant trainer, and to be fair, the fighters he has had a full camp with have yet to be beaten. I've watched Lee and Billy train many times, and Lee is head and shoulders above Billy in every area as far as I'm concerned. Very technical, reads the game very, very well, and most importantly, very quickly identifies a fighters strengths and weaknessess. He also really cares about his fighters.
I think this is a very bad move letting Lee go. Bob Shannon, like quoted in that article, was the man they were looking to train Ricky.
The more I hear, the more I dont want Ricky to fight again. And getting rid of Lee is the final nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.
But hey,what do I know ?:(
cool update Jimmy ;)
Smart move from Lee IMHO.... get out before your the scapegoat son. :-X:-X:-X
Part rant, part serious on my part there.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessI think it's a bit severe there. Every fighters that went on with Roach did improve significantly, except perhaps Tyson who stayed the same but Tyson being Tyson, nobody could have done anything for that. I still rate Roach as the most able coach at the moment despite his part time loud mouth (which I think is mostly to catch fire instead of his boxers but it is debatable).Quote:
Originally Posted by milesScrew that. I can think of nothing worse than being trained by that ginger, drooling goon. Hatton going to Roach would be like Hopkins, Toney and Tyson going to him. An ageing fighter pointlessly turning to a cash hungry coach who really has nothing to offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Roach is a one trick pony, he is just lucky that his trick is Manny Pacquiao. Drugs probably help too.
Back on Topic, a good coach for Hatton would be Pat Burns or Shields I think. If he could go German, training with Uli Wegner could be excellent as one of the first thing he would learn would be to keep his hands up... which is good for a guy unable to move head.
I don't think Roach had the time to have an impact with Hopkins and you can't teach an old dog like that many new tricks. Roach allowed Toney to come in progressively heavier and heavier which I thought was disgusting. He seemed to allow Tyson to cut corners in preparation too. A good trainer wouldn't be allowing fighters to get in the ring having not done the roadwork. Roach is good at what he does, but is overrated by those who see him as the messiah.
Surprised Beard is that highly thought of. I always thought he was about 1 step up from TrainerMonkey in the Hatton camp.
In fact TM is probably expecting the call from Hatton.
Floyd Snr was the biggest mistake Ray Hatton ever made. He was in it for the cool million he received and nothing more in my opinion, and many others. Floyd Snr even refused to train Ricky on the pads in prep for Manny as he said that he doesnt do 'Southpaw' pad-work. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesScrew that. I can think of nothing worse than being trained by that ginger, drooling goon. Hatton going to Roach would be like Hopkins, Toney and Tyson going to him. An ageing fighter pointlessly turning to a cash hungry coach who really has nothing to offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Roach is a one trick pony, he is just lucky that his trick is Manny Pacquiao. Drugs probably help too.
Virgill Hill is a Roach product and Amir khan became a belt holder after it appears that presscott shattered his dreams.
What I want to know is why the hell is Guzman using Lee beard?
Quite the opposite mate, he is boxing trainers best kept secret. His recommendations all come from professional fighters he has worked with. He is only young with an amatuer background but when you speak to him and watch him train fighters he blows you away to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Lee has never been in full control of Ricks training bar the 2 weeks Billy had a vaction during the Lazcano camp. And even then it was done on the sly as Billy would have gone apeshit if he found out. In fact Billy sent Lee Beard packing from the Phoenix Camp on a few occasions. Jealously.
I just wish Lee had taken over full time as soon as they got rid of Billy. But Ray thought it would be in the best interests from a commercial perspective to get a big name, hence Floyd Snr's appointment.
I was being serious about Fenech and Rooney....Roach wouldn't train Ricky Hatton for anything.
Ronnie Shields wouldn't be horrible for Ricky if he could teach him anything about defense that would be a plus
....I think Ricky is a shot fighter now, he's not the best at 140, he can't compete with even the AVERAGE 147 fighters much less the best, and there's no way he makes any other weight class. The only fight I would want to see that involved Ricky Hatton is Miguel Cotto and I would like for both fighters to retire after that fight.
In hindsight I wonder how Ricky would have done vs Randall Bailey
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Originally Posted by skel1983
One would think Guzman has only been told good things about Lee hence the reason he wants him, nothing less nothing more ;)
Obviously, I didnt realise Beard was that known over there which he obviously is, I just thought It was a bit random, but I now hear he has been recommended by another fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
One would think Guzman has only been told good things about Lee hence the reason he wants him, nothing less nothing more ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Maybe hatton want's to stay clean ;)
I think this was a smart move getting rid of beard. Although finding a new trainer, who'll train him in this country could be tricky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceFloyd Snr was the biggest mistake Ray Hatton ever made. He was in it for the cool million he received and nothing more in my opinion, and many others. Floyd Snr even refused to train Ricky on the pads in prep for Manny as he said that he doesnt do 'Southpaw' pad-work. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
There was plenty of footage on sky news and 24/7 of snr and ricky doing pad work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceFloyd Snr was the biggest mistake Ray Hatton ever made. He was in it for the cool million he received and nothing more in my opinion, and many others. Floyd Snr even refused to train Ricky on the pads in prep for Manny as he said that he doesnt do 'Southpaw' pad-work. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
There was plenty of footage on sky news and 24/7 of snr and ricky doing pad work.
Ahh but was it padwork designed to counter and land on a southpaw ?
Exactly, no it wasnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanQuote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-Force
There was plenty of footage on sky news and 24/7 of snr and ricky doing pad work.
Ahh but was it padwork designed to counter and land on a southpaw ?
But here's what I don't understand. If I was a boxer on the brink of a mega fight and my body is telling me I've got to slow down a bit, or I feel like I'm peaking too soon, I'm going to put my foot down and say something. If my trainer then persists in training me into the ground or refusing to do pad work or other training techniques vital to beating my oponant (not mention turning up for training late) than I'm going to tell him to pack his bags and fuck off. Especially if you've got Lee beard to take over anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceExactly, no it wasnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanQuote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
Ahh but was it padwork designed to counter and land on a southpaw ?
I'm just surprised Ricky didn't do something.
Firstly, Ricky didnt say anything about the overtraining because he probably didnt want to admit defeat to the programme. Especially if he thought that Oscar and Floyd Jnr had handled Floyd Snr's regime, even though they probably differed massively.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerBut here's what I don't understand. If I was a boxer on the brink of a mega fight and my body is telling me I've got to slow down a bit, or I feel like I'm peaking too soon, I'm going to put my foot down and say something. If my trainer then persists in training me into the ground or refusing to do pad work or other training techniques vital to beating my oponant (not mention turning up for training late) than I'm going to tell him to pack his bags and fuck off. Especially if you've got Lee beard to take over anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceExactly, no it wasnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyhitman
I'm just surprised Ricky didn't do something.
Secondly, they did tell Floyd Snr to pack his bags and fuck off weeks before the fight, it just wasnt made public.
I am not really sure how much did with Lee anyways, the only other guys Lee has worked with are Matthew Hatton and Tim Coleman right? Matthew has made some good progress but I think that was mainly down to Billy Graham, Coleman is poor he was very lucky to get a win over Arnoutis, I had him losing by 3-4 rounds.
I am not sure if there is anyone in the UK for Ricky, no offence but the set up is just too wrong, too many distractions. He needs to get away from thinngs and really give it one more good shot at it. I guess the states is the best place for that any Europeans would have a language barrier, and Australia would def be out for me, so who is there in the States -
Freddy Roach - No, just would be an insult for Ricky, Freddy has already expressed his feelings on how good he thinks Hatton is on World TV, you can't go back to something like that.
Floyd Sr - Hell No, crap job the first time and doesn't care about Hatton
Ronnie Shields - I worry about his advice sometimes,, telling Diaz to take a round off when fighting Malignaggi and already 5 rounds down was a joke, but generally a good trainer
Buddy McGirt - Buddy already has too many guys and it shows if you spread yourself too thin you will suffer
John Tandy - Has established himself well in the States and brought a guy like Yusaf Mack to the top, would wait to see how his boy does against Glen Johnson but a win there and he should be considered, least Hatton may be more comfortable with another Brit.
Joe Goossen - Could be another interesting choice, great trainer, burns his guys out a little, ruined Edison Miranda for his title shot by over training him last time out.
Manny Stewart - Getting a little old but still a great mind and an interesting choice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceFloyd Snr was the biggest mistake Ray Hatton ever made. He was in it for the cool million he received and nothing more in my opinion, and many others. Floyd Snr even refused to train Ricky on the pads in prep for Manny as he said that he doesnt do 'Southpaw' pad-work. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
Too right
while manny was in training for ricky, ricky was in training for floyd. You saw the worrying signs early on in the 24/7 series when he simply refused to let ricky go to work with genuine southpaws instead just opting to change stances every now and then.
Shame Lees gone to the states as he was one of the better british trainers. Im pretty sure any of merkins picks could get hatton into fighting shape. Hatton doesnt need someone in the camp with new thoughts and ideas he needs a workaholic type trainer who`s gonna work to ricks strengths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceFirstly, Ricky didnt say anything about the overtraining because he probably didnt want to admit defeat to the programme. Especially if he thought that Oscar and Floyd Jnr had handled Floyd Snr's regime, even though they probably differed massively.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerBut here's what I don't understand. If I was a boxer on the brink of a mega fight and my body is telling me I've got to slow down a bit, or I feel like I'm peaking too soon, I'm going to put my foot down and say something. If my trainer then persists in training me into the ground or refusing to do pad work or other training techniques vital to beating my oponant (not mention turning up for training late) than I'm going to tell him to pack his bags and fuck off. Especially if you've got Lee beard to take over anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-Force
I'm just surprised Ricky didn't do something.
Secondly, they did tell Floyd Snr to pack his bags and fuck off weeks before the fight, it just wasnt made public.
hmmm fair points. Jr didn't handle Sr's routine though did he. thats why he's been trained by uncle roger for god knows how long and had big disputes with snr over training.
And I stand corrected if they sent Snr packing. Snr being in the gym on 24/7 during the last week of training and being in Ricky's corner on the night of the fight must have thrown me.
I think the trainer situation ricky is in now is a difficult one, it'll be very interesting to see how this all pans out for him and who he goes with.
Heard it is down to 3 guys
Abel Sanchez - Summit Gym in Big Bear, train Sam Peter
John Tandy - Talon Boxing in Lake Arrowhead, trains Yusaf Mack
Joe Goossen - Goossens Gym in Hollywood, trains Edison Miranda
Interesting they are all in the States, and 2 are high Altitude
They did it to save face for both parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceFirstly, Ricky didnt say anything about the overtraining because he probably didnt want to admit defeat to the programme. Especially if he thought that Oscar and Floyd Jnr had handled Floyd Snr's regime, even though they probably differed massively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
Secondly, they did tell Floyd Snr to pack his bags and fuck off weeks before the fight, it just wasnt made public.
hmmm fair points. Jr didn't handle Sr's routine though did he. thats why he's been trained by uncle roger for god knows how long and had big disputes with snr over training.
And I stand corrected if they sent Snr packing. Snr being in the gym on 24/7 during the last week of training and being in Ricky's corner on the night of the fight must have thrown me.
I think the trainer situation ricky is in now is a difficult one, it'll be very interesting to see how this all pans out for him and who he goes with.
Thats interesting, i was starting to worry he may go with the likes of Brian Hughes or Bobby Rimmer for ease of travelling and the ability to use his own gym, with these guys being manchester based it would of made sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by gman12
Ricks his own man so it really wouldnt suprise me if he did do something like that.
Fuck im not even a hatton fan but suggesting Fenech is just plain mean. Fenech has never trained anyone world class, they all fell short. Fenech gets too emotional in the corner and cant calmly tell his fighters what needs to be done. Dont get me wrong, loved fenech as a fighter...hate him as a trainer. Some boxers should not be trainers and fenech is one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The rumour I heard was Beard was owed Money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovebruceleeFuck im not even a hatton fan but suggesting Fenech is just plain mean. Fenech has never trained anyone world class, they all fell short. Fenech gets too emotional in the corner and cant calmly tell his fighters what needs to be done. Dont get me wrong, loved fenech as a fighter...hate him as a trainer. Some boxers should not be trainers and fenech is one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Give that man a cigar!! Right on Snakey, Fenech is a shit trainer.
Can't tell what Lyle was thinking there to be honest, Rooney is MIA and Fenech is a pretender IMHO.
yea i agree Roach will get Hatton ready for a catchweight fight at 190 lbs against Ivan Calderon in no time ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
In reality the best you could do for Hatton is find somebody to remind him that:
If you don't move your head, use something that at east resembles a guard
and
If you don't use a guard... at least try and move your head.
Telling him that it's OK to get hit with a solid shot and then refrain from seeing red and throw your gameplan out of the window like a boutless Amatuer would help too, but at the moment keeping his hands up is a primary, this is just secondary.
Really what he needs is somebody to find out when his yes men team started believing their own hype too much and neglecting his training, hop in the deloraine and go for 88mph.
Calderon wont be drained at 190.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyea i agree Roach will get Hatton ready for a catchweight fight at 190 lbs against Ivan Calderon in no time ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
They'll go for Pavlik at 145
;D
nope that's already Pacquiao's opponent for the fall :-X and it'd be for the lightweight championship of the worldQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_langCalderon wont be drained at 190.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyea i agree Roach will get Hatton ready for a catchweight fight at 190 lbs against Ivan Calderon in no time ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
They'll go for Pavlik at 145
;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Yep, a time machine would be good for Hatton.
I posted immediately after the Tszyu fight that I thought Hatton would go down as an all time great 140 pounder. That's how highly I rated him. But he had no discipline between fights at all. And let's not forget, he spent his best years toiling away in relative obscurity under Warren's 'watchful eye'. Sure Warren kept him busy and kept him earning, but IMO he should have been fighting bigger names sooner.
Sadly, I think Ricky will be remembered as a decent fighter who had a couple of brilliant victories (Tszyu/Castillo) but who largely wasted the gifts they had. His boozing and partying lifestyle has seriously shortened his career and in the long run, I think he may be remembered by the public more for his defeats against great fighters, than his victories.
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreigQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Yep, a time machine would be good for Hatton.
I posted immediately after the Tszyu fight that I thought Hatton would go down as an all time great 140 pounder. That's how highly I rated him. But he had no discipline between fights at all. And let's not forget, he spent his best years toiling away in relative obscurity under Warren's 'watchful eye'. Sure Warren kept him busy and kept him earning, but IMO he should have been fighting bigger names sooner.
Sadly, I think Ricky will be remembered as a decent fighter who had a couple of brilliant victories (Tszyu/Castillo) but who largely wasted the gifts they had. His boozing and partying lifestyle has seriously shortened his career and in the long run, I think he may be remembered by the public more for his defeats against great fighters, than his victories.
The Warren years were wasteful in that the good opponents were sparse, but the good thing about the period was that Hatton stayed active and was fighting regularly. There was never enough time to seriously have issues with weight and conditioning. Since Tsyzu, I think it has increasingly become a huge problem with longer breaks between fights and a total lack of responsibility regarding conditioning. Hatton fighting once or twice a year is a recipe for disaster and that is why we have seen a rapid deterioration. God knows how he is going to look after a year out.