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How do you create angles in punching? Give me an example from start to finish of you closing the gap, engaging, and getting out, and tell me where and how the angles came into play. Most importantly I want to know what the feet are doing to set these angles up.
Give me as many examples as you can. This is something I'm trying to really better understand.
Lean.
can you be a little more specific?
easiest one.
jab,cross, slip then pivot the rear foot out then you have an angle on the opponent
Circle your opponent feinting while noting his reactions. Throw jabs and straight rights to keep him off you. Step in behind feints and land to the areas these open up.
Angles work in 3 dimensions.
Pivots, side-steps, step-across etc. can create a different angle (i.e 45 or 90 degrees from centre - assuming you are right in front of your oppenent to start with), but are only working in one plane.
Punches - from in front of your opponent - can also be changed to create different angles i.e straight left, overarm/hand right, hooks, uppercuts, half-hook/uppercut, bolos and screw shots (all varied from head to body at short, medium and medium to long range).
really pulling for a freebie arent you.
some jab and some footwork is all you need.
Slip there jab Screw shot move to the Right Stright left hand is there (Southpar stance)
Remember this, every guard has its openings, and every punch thrown creates new openings. If you already have a good idea of the various targets of an opponent's body, you can then figure out where you'll need to be to have a clear shot. For instance, you might have to take a step to the left to land a left hook, or toward your right to land a right. It's not just footwork, it's using dynamic punches, levels/elevations, head-movement, and body-positioning. You need to adjust the length of you punches to cope with a your opponent's movement and position. Don't just throw a lot of punches from one spot, move into position so that you can land those punches.
A big part of creating angles is making your opponent miss. For instance when slipping insider the jab, you can step to the left and then your in position to land a hook. Or you can slip to outside and then pivot to the right to catch your opponent on their blind side. Pivoting in addition to side-stepping can get you into a safe angle to counter from. I find that crouching narrow/oblique stance is helpful as it I can slip punches better and then move into a good spot.
This is just a brief introduction, and I can give some specific examples later on. Anyway, here are a couple of videos that touch on angles, and stepping forward on an angle: http://www.youtube.com/v/vysbW8bvwAw...?v=PvWFwzqeTv4 (look at about 3:30 into it)
If I want to pivot to the right, do I step outside his lead foot with my left foot first, or do I just pivot on it where it is? pivoting to the right feels so awkward to me.
and what is the difference between a basic pivot and a sidestep?
Thanks for all the responses too, guys. Appreciate it.
I belive the best way to realize angles and what they can and cant do for you is to start right at the beginning and stand square on to a target, put both fists out in front of you. See they both reach the target at the same distance. Now imagine you have giant 6 inch nails (ok "9 inch nails" good band !:D)
Big nails anyway, right through both your feet right through the center of the top and into the floor so you can pick both feet up and turn them around on the nails but you cant move away at all.
Now pick up your feet up one at a time and turn your outside foot (either one cause your in square stance) out on a 45% angle then your other foot follows instantly, Now see what happened to your reach, you can reach the target with your inside hand but your outside is now 4 inches away from it. Also your center line has shifted from your opponents point of view by 3 inches just on the turn of your ankles.
That is the slightest angle and the fastest way to utilize it in a fight; (if your nose to nose it can count for more than if done at a distance). It moves your center line out of the way of a straight punch without even blocking it can soak the power up of a punch too and at the same time it increases your distance on one side so you can make contact with more power on it while placing your other side into more safety by being at a further distance.
Then practice it with half steps like pulling the outer foot back or side stepping away in a half step with the inside foot first; Then try moving after the turn and start to get movement behind your combination's and blocks and realize the angle you have created and the benefits you gain or the danger you place yourself into from them (if you head the wrong way).
You can step and turn or you can turn and then step, different timing for different situations. You will lose contact with one side and gain it on the other.You will avoid one of you opponents arms further and increase his other side. So its done on a reaction to his moves and you control his closest arm while you do it or go under it or around it so you really are eventually all the way on his outside and you have his lead arm in the way of his rear arm relative to where you just landed. (if you can get to that point off one of his moves, you really know what your doing with angles).
Works boths ways. Realization is the key and that starts with subtle turns then half steps then full steps so you can fight with subtly instead of overcommitment and not knowing why you just did something and then paying for it. Then comes even more through leg and waist flexibility and leans once you can back your new angles up correctly with your arms. (Realization of and Control of his lead arm as you move is the main key as you move away from his rear arm).
Thanks everyone, this helps alot. I guess to wrap up I have two questions:
1) Is it possible to create an angle without putting something in his face first? Is it always a better idea to step straight into range, put something in his face like a double jab for example, and THEN pivot, sidestep, or whatever to create an angle? It seems like you have to put something in his face first or he'll just follow you around no problem, hence eliminating your angle before you can capitalize on it.
2) If I'm sidestepping, pivoting or whatever to create an angle, what should my head be doing? It seems like I could be easily clipped with a left hook if I'm pivoting to my right, or a right hand if I'm stepping out to my left. So what evasive technique do I use to get me there safely? If it matters I'm generally about 4 inches taller than most people I spar with.
Thanks a lot guys.
Jeff Fenech also has a few instructional type videos on you tube by title boxing that you might find usefull.
you cant just do it all the time and you cant just go into them for no reason either both those thoughts are going to led into trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaiBoxerWithNoHandsSon
EG: Angles can found easier when the opponent is pushing their weight around and you use it against them. When they are slow or when they repeat a move you know you can read or when they hold out an arm overextended etc (you can take control of it and move around it.)
1#You answered the first question with your second one.(Of course; You can create angles even with your hands behind your back and make him miss with those angles) BUT
you sure would have to rethink my first post outlining the reasons why you are moving in the first place).
2# your head should be using the thing thats inside it :bag: and covering the arm that is the threat with your own glove.
Or brain being used to move on an angle, off of one of his moves so that that side of him is already expended and no threat cause its extended or on the way the back.
That why you have to know when to.
If you are going to just find angles willy nilly just cause you can, then someone with more experience or even just a cool thinker in the ring will expose your move as just a move and the next time you do it ;your correct they will double up a hook while moving forwards on you or something and catch your temple exposed.
On the other side, If someone follows you by pivoting they are turning and facing into a direction that you should be already throwing from!
(So they meet it head on). That can only be done by creating your angles from their over commitment and that needs thinking about in depth, then practiced shadow boxing, then sparring, then for real.
You can smother one side of someone (you now move in choke them out), You can disrupt their movement on one side many ways. you can block one side ,you can cover (at the elbow one side of them disrupting their balance and their shot weakens). You can beat them to the draw so your punch is in the way of what you know is coming from them; You can even attack their arm as it comes at you, if you got that in you. (Creating the correct angle is what is giving you the time to do any of that). Thats the reason.
Also food for thought; If one side is going to become a threat and you are open to it (you know whats comming) You have just created a sure thing .. So whats your next move to counter or catch him coming off that sure reaction from him?
You say your taller ,I would imagine you would have find your angles off their moves. Through slipping their punches and then moving as you slip. You could try disrupting their lead arm and then moving to its outside as it returns (that gets you away from the other hand too.)
Shorter men the same but they can go under arms easier and land in a better position already with their guns cocked ready to fire coiled or sprung ready to go taller guys have more trouble with that.
IN a match where theres alot of clinching going on, you can move in as if you are going to clinch then go out on the angle and cross or hook as their arm searches for yours ( you drop yours as you move out to give yourself room and shoot one around their arm that is just leaving your side, cause you made the angle and the distance).
Orlando Canizales no better way of learning the art of angles, than watching this guy fight. He was the master at boxing in angles, his footwork was incredible.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaiBoxerWithNoHandsSon
I'm not familiar, w/ Orlando Canizales, I'll have to look him up. I think Mike McCallum would be an excellent study for working in angles. He had to when dealing with pressuring opponents, he'd step around them, pivot and make the have to reset, all the while staying a step ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBOrlando Canizales no better way of learning the art of angles, than watching this guy fight. He was the master at boxing in angles, his footwork was incredible.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaiBoxerWithNoHandsSon
Orlando Canizales done exactly what you just described, he would also feint with his footwork amazingly, making opponents twitch. Forcing them to make mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris NagelI'm not familiar, w/ Orlando Canizales, I'll have to look him up. I think Mike McCallum would be an excellent study for working in angles. He had to when dealing with pressuring opponents, he'd step around them, pivot and make the have to reset, all the while staying a step ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBOrlando Canizales no better way of learning the art of angles, than watching this guy fight. He was the master at boxing in angles, his footwork was incredible.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaiBoxerWithNoHandsSon