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Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to hel
I watched the Chambers - Dimitrenko fight again last night, and it was great. I think those two could have banged with the best.
I have been watching the fights since the middle '50's, and seen the heavyweights getting bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, and smarter, as athletes have in all other sports since that time. So what I can't figure out is, why so many fight fans keep telling me that heavyweight boxing is the ONLY SPORT on earth where the level of competition has actually declined? Especially with all the money involved.
Is it just that the old guys still love that old time rock and roll, and still can't accept that anyone could hit like Ted Williams? You know, if I had a beer or two I could still be tempted to make up some argument about why Williams was the greatest, starting with the fact he was the last to hit over .400, .406 to be exact. But who am I kidding? If the great hitters of today faced the same pitching he faced, some might hit .500. After all, Satchel Paige couldn't even pitch in the majors then, LOL.
The improvement is obvious in basketball. Just watch an old video of Bob Cousy and the Celtics, the best of their time. You KNOW FOR SURE they wouldn't be able to get out of their own end against today's Celtics.
It's easy to see the progression in the sports of track and field. Times run on the track today were unimaginable 50 years ago.
Turn of the 19th century champ Jim Jeffries is said to have been a great "all-round athlete". After all, he could run the 100 yard dash in 10.5 seconds! My God, that's a slow high school time today.
Improvement in most sports competition is obvious. Maybe it's a little harder to see in boxing. So it's easy for us to sit back and listen to our Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis tapes, or Guns and Roses DVDs and dream that our old favourites fought better competition than Lewis and the Klitchkos.
I love those old greats. Their hearts are immortal. But it puzzles me how today's intelligent fight fan can persist in believing that heavyweight boxers are the ONLY class of athletes on earth who have deteriorated over the past 50 - 100 years, while athletes in all other sports have advanced light years.
No, wait. I've got it figured out. Here it is. They have never been able to tough it out and watch videos of Louis' "bum of the month club". Face it, Ruiz or Valuev would have run through that bunch like shxt through a goose.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Do you honestly think that any HW today is as fast as the likes of Ali? Or that they hit as hard as Foreman? I don't, not at all.
And as for money, there is not as much in boxing anymore due to the interest declining. Ali and Foreman got £5 million each nearly 40 years ago. David Haye only got that last week. And why has the interest in boxing gone?? For me it's because the HW's are crap to watch. Don't get me wrong David Haye is a breath of fresh air to the division, but he is only one man and barring him and the Klitschkos I can't think of many HW's who are in real shape. They all seem to think that heavier is better and it's really ruining the division as lots of them are fat. Hopefully Haye will show the rest that fatter is not better, I mean Arreola for me could be very good if he just lost about 25-30lbs. But he's too obsessed with burgers and other crap foods. Same goes for Solis, its not that long since he was down at 200lbs and winning the olympics, now he's lucky to keep himself down to 260lbs, he's a mess.
The Klitschko's are both good athletes who are always in shape and for them it really is a shame because they are not getting perhaps the credit they are due because the rest are such a mess. As far as Eddie Chambers goes, to me he looks like a guy who should be fighting at 175lbs but due to the state of the HW's he has decided to fight up there and try his luck with naturally bigger men and until he has met someone in shape he has fared very well, but it was clear he was out of shape and out of his depth with Wlad.
The HW's need athletes not fat slobs.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
U make a good point. The klitscko brothers probably would have done well in any era. Behind them and probably David haye the depth of talent seems to be lacking. If u look at some of the klitscko brothers title defences their challengerS seem to show as if their deer caught in headlights. It's like they've forgotten there's the most prestigious prizes in sport at stake. If u look in the past the heavy weight division was alwAys exciting people use to get up for the big fights, and the fights use too live up too the hype. David haye has definately breathed some life into the division. But for whatever reason it still isn't what it was. I don't care what anyone says.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
"Do you honestly think that any HW today is as fast as the likes of Ali? Or that they hit as hard as Foreman? I don't, not at all." Quote by rjj tszyu.
OK, you've dragged up Ali and Foreman. Nobody's as fast as Ali, no-one hits as hard as Foreman.
Could be true. But putting those two together is like mixing metaphors. You morph together the best of both and you get a superhuman with Ali's speed and Foreman's punch. Then you conclude this superhuman is better than the competition in the division today. Which is true, of course. But you forget about all the "less than superhuman" fighters Ali and Foreman fought, which was the competition of that era. Some weren't fat? Some weren't slow? Some couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag?
We only remember Dempsey, Louis, Foreman and Ali. We forget all the lesser lights they fought that was their competition at the time.
As far as today's fighters conditioning is concerned, most of the Russians look in good shape to me, and Haye and Chambers are, too.
I say put the 20 best of today against the 20 best of any other era and today's bunch would win 2 out of 3.
And if today's competition was given it's due, if we'd be realistic about the competition of yesterday, the Klitschko's and some of the others like Adamek and Chagaev and Dimitrenko and Hayes and Chambers would be given their due.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
It is because there are such a run of nobodies that fizzle out faster then they got started...
It is because over the last decade every time the next big thing comes along they turn out to be a bust....It is because there always seems to be just that 1 guy who is head and shoulders above the rest and the division offers nothing competitive for us.....
EG- Sam Peter so strong, who started to show improvement after the second Toney fight...Just to become another second rate fighter who built his rep on fighters who were either past it or never were it..
Then guys who are really talented and if they came a long an era or 2 before would have excelled nicely but get blasted out due to size problems...EG Chris Byrd was a great boxer who was a TRUE heavyweight...If this was the 70's 80's or early 90's.....
We get spoiled by men like a Prime Holyfield who fought nothing but guys bigger stronger men then him as a hw and ate the shots the bigger men were landing so we EXPECT every other man his size to be able to handle the same punishment and come out on top like Evander did more often then not..
We were spoiled by men like Lewis who defeated every man he ever faced and it became understood that his losses were brought on by his own cocky attitude that caused lazy habits rather then the skill of his opp..The came back in rematches top dismantle his former conquerer....There was never any doubt who the King was...While today we have a champion that has cracked under pressure more times then he should have,,,
Our contenders and title holders come out of no where...Guys like Povetkin, Dimitrenko, Boytstov...Good fighters that have limited exposure except when they are involved in a big fight so it appears that they are nobodies to the average fan....
The world champion was someone everyone knew who they were...Guys like Tyson...Holyfield...Holmes...All had general public exposure...Guys like Spinks, Bowe were ex Olympians and had built a following there...Today at best the average person who does not really follow the sport might know about the HW championship is there are Brothers who hold it...EVERYONE knew who Tyson was, Ali, Frazier, Foreman etc
The division holds no household name nor do the contenders......For people to get excited to watch because they heard about them elsewhere....
In the 90's Guys like Golota brought attention to himself in mainstream sports as a ball punching dirty fighter and had a catchy name like "The Foul pole"
Tommy Morrison was in Movies..Ray Mercer the Ex Army Vet always a popular thing to be with fans especially military fans...
the 70's and 80's had contenders like Quarry the good Irish kid who fought anyone, Tex Cobb the guy who had little style but slugged it out until either he or the opp could not continue, Cooney the great white hope...Chuck Wepner who looked like and out of Shape balding man who works as a janitor but took Ali to the limit dropping him...Making the common man feel good about himself....
Today the division does not have the aura it once did...The fighters today are not the balls out go for broke come from behind fellow you could not help but root for....Our Champions are not ones that embrace their role as the most important athlete on earth...
At one time EVERYONE could name the HW champion...Hell if your from the 50's you would know that at one time 3 men were 3 men that EVERONE knew who they were regardless of sport they followed, profession, religon
The President, The Pope and the HW champion of the world......
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Hi Paddy 448: I agree the Klits awe their opponents. But I think it is because they are so good, not that their opponents are so bad. They both remind me a bit of Ali with their quick reflexes. But I think they hit harder. Are they as smart? I don't know. Ali was full of surprises. But they have Ph.D's.
DaxxKahn, Hello there.
Your post was almost as long as mine, but if I get your drift, you are saying that people are tired of the HW division because the best fighters aren't flashy, they aren't American, they come from strange places no-one's ever heard of, and they are too big. I'll have to agree with you in most part. (But I've heard that in Europe people are pretty excited about the division, and they know where Kazakhistan and Uzbekhestan are and how to spell them. LOL)
I'm glad you never said the heavyweights today can't fight!
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
the thing is, aside from the Klitschko's, none of the HW of today would have stood a chance with prime versions of
Louis
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Lewis
Holyfield
etc.
and the Klitschko's would only stand a small chance basically due to their size advantage
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
[QUOTE=Dave Hughey;859615]Hi Paddy 448: I agree the Klits awe their opponents. But I think it is because they are so good, not that their opponents are so bad. They both remind me a bit of Ali with their quick reflexes. But I think they hit harder. Are they as smart? I don't know. Ali was full of surprises. But they have Ph.D's.
There's no doubting the klitsckos are good. They use there size and physical attributes to great effect. And I think they would of done well in any era. I would love them to be pushed more in fights. U no see them in a real war. Are they that good that they allow this not too happen. Or is it cause their opponents r so bad. It's a strange one. I expect haye too test their metal when they meet. It will tell me alot more about them in that fight. Cause I see haye as the first real live opponent for a while. As for their reflexes being on par with Ali. I don't see it. Ali was a bit special
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Sure there could be fantastic and exciting fights in the HW today, a couple of them do have that potential. When we're talking about the lack of competition, we're talking about a general pool of overall talent. 2 medium or on the decline fighters can give super exciting fights. Gatti-Ward for example, these were 2 good fighters, lovely and gritty, they were good, perhaps somewhere between good and very good, but they were not excellent. Before there was a couple of excellent fighters in the HW, today, a slight handful, and the talent of the handful is far too little to win against both K (except via a shocking lucky upset perhaps). Before, you could wonder a lot about what could happen, Frasier, Foreman, Ali etc, there was some excitement, there was enough talent to make anything possible happens. Not today at the moment and that's part of the problem and what peoples do criticize and as it is often the case, we (including me) tend to spit a bit more than what we should as it is a bit of an angering situation.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Hughey
I watched the Chambers - Dimitrenko fight again last night, and it was great. I think those two could have banged with the best.
I have been watching the fights since the middle '50's, and seen the heavyweights getting bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, and smarter, as athletes have in all other sports since that time. So what I can't figure out is, why so many fight fans keep telling me that heavyweight boxing is the ONLY SPORT on earth where the level of competition has actually declined? Especially with all the money involved.
Is it just that the old guys still love that old time rock and roll, and still can't accept that anyone could hit like Ted Williams? You know, if I had a beer or two I could still be tempted to make up some argument about why Williams was the greatest, starting with the fact he was the last to hit over .400, .406 to be exact. But who am I kidding? If the great hitters of today faced the same pitching he faced, some might hit .500. After all, Satchel Paige couldn't even pitch in the majors then, LOL.
The improvement is obvious in basketball. Just watch an old video of Bob Cousy and the Celtics, the best of their time. You KNOW FOR SURE they wouldn't be able to get out of their own end against today's Celtics.
It's easy to see the progression in the sports of track and field. Times run on the track today were unimaginable 50 years ago.
Turn of the 19th century champ Jim Jeffries is said to have been a great "all-round athlete". After all, he could run the 100 yard dash in 10.5 seconds! My God, that's a slow high school time today.
Improvement in most sports competition is obvious. Maybe it's a little harder to see in boxing. So it's easy for us to sit back and listen to our Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis tapes, or Guns and Roses DVDs and dream that our old favourites fought better competition than Lewis and the Klitchkos.
I love those old greats. Their hearts are immortal. But it puzzles me how today's intelligent fight fan can persist in believing that heavyweight boxers are the ONLY class of athletes on earth who have deteriorated over the past 50 - 100 years, while athletes in all other sports have advanced light years.
No, wait. I've got it figured out. Here it is. They have never been able to tough it out and watch videos of Louis' "bum of the month club". Face it, Ruiz or Valuev would have run through that bunch like shxt through a goose.
Well as refreshing as your views are I must disagree with at leats your views on the GREATS like Ted Williams (the greatest hitter that ever lived), Bob Cousy, and Joe Louis. What those guys did in their respective eras have not been repeated and for good reason!!! Sure Williams didn't have to face black pitchers for the part of his career but he got to face Satchel Paige and Bob Gibson during his career and not to mention the white pitchers Bob Feller, Herb Score, Whitey Ford, etc. And Ted Williams didn't have the new training methods that today's hitters have. Bob Cousy and Bill Russle in their primes would give anyone hell!
....and Two Ton Tony Galento would have rocked both Ruiz and Valuev!!!
But the Klitschko's do deserve some respect for what they do, they are classy champions that fight anyone out there
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Hughey
Hi Paddy 448: I agree the Klits awe their opponents. But I think it is because they are so good, not that their opponents are so bad. They both remind me a bit of Ali with their quick reflexes. But I think they hit harder. Are they as smart? I don't know. Ali was full of surprises. But they have Ph.D's.
DaxxKahn, Hello there.
Your post was almost as long as mine, but if I get your drift, you are saying that people are tired of the HW division because the best fighters aren't flashy, they aren't American, they come from strange places no-one's ever heard of, and they are too big. I'll have to agree with you in most part. (But I've heard that in Europe people are pretty excited about the division, and they know where Kazakhistan and Uzbekhestan are and how to spell them. LOL)
I'm glad you never said the heavyweights today can't fight!
You had a good post mate...Good to see an opinion given besides the usual they suck or other then Klitschko what good is it etc....
I don't agree with everything you said but in Europe etc I know these guys are big deals...If they would televise these around the world (Not just the States) then fans would know what we are seeing.....
I mean a guy from Europe comes along with a 22-0 record and makes his debut in the states or UK for a title shot (lets face it the biggest audience is from the US and UK) and gets blown out then people only see a guy with an undefeated record get blown out leaving them to believe one thing..."This guy fought BS comp and got a shot because of his record and wasted everyones time"...Not too mention it makes the champion seem like he is fighting chumps....
I guess the best way to sum it up is comparing it too when the lighter weight classes have these guys from Central and South America building these huge records against cab drivers and getting title shots just to be over classed
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...
The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...
How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??
I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....
It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...
Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...
You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...
The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...
How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??
I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....
It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...
Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...
You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..
:appl: Best post of the thread
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...
The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...
How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??
I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....
It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...
Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...
You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..
:appl: Best post of the thread
I'll second that. Great post
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...
The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...
How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??
I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....
It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...
Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...
You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..
:appl: Best post of the thread
I'll second that. Great post
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...
The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...
How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??
I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....
It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...
Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...
You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..
:appl: Best post of the thread
I'll second that. Great post
Absolutely. Dizaster beat me to the punch (no pun intended). I don't trash today's HWs because I'm stuck in some sort of time warp where I think only the Ali's, Foreman's and Tyson's were any good. I trash them because they're by and large a bunch of fat slobs who don't train well enough to even LOOK like professional athletes, and come in with that hope that one big punch can translate into an easy title. The hell with the bunch of them!
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Lyle, you kill me. We share a sense of humour. Tony Two Ton Galento. I love it. Thank you for reminding me of Tony Galento.
Two Ton Tony Galento is the perfect example for the points I am trying to make on this thread. Tony was an honoured member of the "Bum of the Month Club". But no doubt he could fight. Shook up Louis bad in the first round and knocked him down in the 3rd. Tony also gave one of my favourite champs Max Baer a fight. Those are good videos to watch.
I bring up Tony because certain fighters have been criticized on this site for loving burgers and fries. Well, criticism like that's just down-right un-American, ain't it? Now Tony, he was a real American. Here's a quote from an article about Tony's training regime:
Training
Galento, who claimed to be 5'9 (177 cm) tall, liked to weigh in at about 235 lb (107 kg) for his matches. He achieved this level of fitness by eating whatever, whenever he wanted. A typical meal for Galento consisted of six chickens, a side of spaghetti, all washed down with a half gallon of red wine, or beer, or both at one sitting. When he did go to training camp, he foiled his trainer's attempts to modify his diet, and terrorized his sparring partners by eating their meals in addition to his.
He was reputed to train on beer, and allegedly ate 52 hot dogs on a bet before facing heavyweight Arthur DeKuhr. Two Ton was supposedly so bloated before the fight that the waist line of his trunks had to be slit for him to get into them. Galento claimed that he was sluggish from the effects of eating all those hot dogs, and that he could not move for three rounds. So it took him four rounds to knock out the 6'3" (192 cm) DeKuh with one punch, a left hook.
During his prime years as a boxer, Galento owned and operated a bar named "The Nut Club" in Orange, New Jersey. He was reputed to do his roadwork (training) after he closed the bar at 2:00 a.m.. When asked why he trained at night, Galento replied, "Cuz I fight at night." There is more of this article at Wikipedia. I recommend it for a good laugh.
Galento was a freak. He was a Rocky Marciano plus 50 pounds and a personality. No doubt certain facts are stretched in this article. The plain fact is Tony gave two great hw champions a run for their money. I've seen the videos. He's a legend, and we love him. What a character. Crazy bastard, but OUR crazy bastard.
BUT, (and here's my point): If Tony Two Ton Galento (or Galentski, LOL) showed up today in the rankings, especially if he was from Berserkhastan or wherever, he'd be touted as the prime example why our beloved heavyweight division has gone to hell. "Our heavyweights don't train like the old guys, they have no discipline", etc.
Here's my other point, or maybe just my opinion: Galento would be creamed by 45 of the top 50 heavyweights today. He'd knock five down but they'd come back to cream him, and he'd finish 5 by KO with that wild and wicked left hook. Who knows? He might even catch one of the Klitschko's with it.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Hughey
"Do you honestly think that any HW today is as fast as the likes of Ali? Or that they hit as hard as Foreman? I don't, not at all." Quote by rjj tszyu.
OK, you've dragged up Ali and Foreman. Nobody's as fast as Ali, no-one hits as hard as Foreman.
Could be true. But putting those two together is like mixing metaphors. You morph together the best of both and you get a superhuman with Ali's speed and Foreman's punch. Then you conclude this superhuman is better than the competition in the division today. Which is true, of course. But you forget about all the "less than superhuman" fighters Ali and Foreman fought, which was the competition of that era. Some weren't fat? Some weren't slow? Some couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag?
We only remember Dempsey, Louis, Foreman and Ali. We forget all the lesser lights they fought that was their competition at the time.
As far as today's fighters conditioning is concerned, most of the Russians look in good shape to me, and Haye and Chambers are, too.
I say put the 20 best of today against the 20 best of any other era and today's bunch would win 2 out of 3.
And if today's competition was given it's due, if we'd be realistic about the competition of yesterday, the Klitschko's and some of the others like Adamek and Chagaev and Dimitrenko and Hayes and Chambers would be given their due.
I don't think so somehow.
Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
George Foreman ----> Samuel Peter
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Hi Nameless,
I can sympathize with your frustration. I was watching one of the fights on video the other night and I saw that sack of human garbage Don King sitting at ringside. That SOB has been making a lot of the fights and he twists them to make him money and power, not to entertain the fans and find out who's the best. He is a low down dirty s.o.b.
There are so many match-ups I'd like to see.
(Lyle should go back and update his post about crooked matchmaking and matches he'd like to see).
So many good matches could be made. This Heavyweight Division could sparkle and shine. It could be the best ever. The talent is there. But the match makers aren't boxing fans, they are businessmen and crooks.
Not only do the matchmakers do the sport a dis-service, but they do the boxers themselves a dis-service, too. Because the boxers themselves know the match making is crooked, and they know that they probably are not going to get the rewards they deserve.
Here is a plea, people. Don't blame the fighters. Don't run them down so much. I've watched a lot of them, and they are good. They aren't perfect, but they are good. They train, they work hard, they develop incredible skills, they fight hard. GIVE THEM SOME CREDIT. Fighting is a brutal life. One punch and you could be killed. Those guys face that fact every fight, EVERY ROUND. Some of you have fought and you know.
If you are going to blame somebody, blame those @#$%$#!&*(^)+%$#@!!!!%$!!$#%@!!! matchmakers, especially YOU KNOW WHO!!!
But, on the bright side, King was looking pretty old last time I saw him. And boxing is going to be there long after the miserable s.o.b. is dead, dead, dead.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote from ICB: I don't think so somehow.
Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
George Foreman ----> Samuel Peter
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek __________________
Hello ICB,
Are you sure all those fighters are from the same era? Ali fought Tunny Hunseker in 1960. He retired in 1981. Lewis' first fight was in 1989, 8 years after Ali retired. Lewis fought Klitchko in 2003, then retired. So you had to span 43 years to dredge up 5 fighters you think could beat the best 5 today. Wow! That makes this division look good, not bad! Think about it.
Realistically, a fighter's prime years are, how many? Maybe 10 to 15, max. You are choosing from three or four generations of fighters, not one. But the Klitschko's, Haye, Peter and Adamek are all from ONE generation. Not a fair comparison. Have another beer.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
I was watching some fights on Eurosport before the Audley fight last night, one of the heavyweights was that out of shape he was out of breath walking to the ring! After 2 rounds he looked like he was gonna puke!
Last nights knockout aside, there don't seem to be many heavy weights who can really bang, certainly not enough to knock a monster of a man out, hence the reason the Klitches are unstoppable.
I'd like to see a Tyson type come through, someone with no fear and an aggresive style, happy to mix it with any Heavyweight, even though he could have fought in a lower weight class.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Hughey
Quote from ICB: I don't think so somehow.
Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
George Foreman ----> Samuel Peter
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek __________________
Hello ICB,
Are you sure all those fighters are from the same era? Ali fought Tunny Hunseker in 1960. He retired in 1981. Lewis' first fight was in 1989, 8 years after Ali retired. Lewis fought Klitchko in 2003, then retired. So you had to span 43 years to dredge up 5 fighters you think could beat the best 5 today. Wow! That makes this division look good, not bad! Think about it.
Realistically, a fighter's prime years are, how many? Maybe 10 to 15, max. You are choosing from three or four generations of fighters, not one. But the Klitschko's, Haye, Peter and Adamek are all from ONE generation. Not a fair comparison. Have another beer.
Well i didn't know you meant just one era but if you insist.
90's
Lennox Lewis ----> Vitali Klitschko
Riddick Bowe ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Michael Moorer ----> Tomasz Adamek
Ike Ibeabuchi ----> Samuel Peter
Evander Holyfield ----> Sultan Ibragimov
David Tua ----> David Haye
80's
Tim Witherspoon ----> Vitali Klitschko
Tony Tucker ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek
Mike Tyson ----> Samuel Peter
Greg Page ----> Sultan Ibragimov
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
70's
Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
George Foreman ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Jimmy Young ----> Tomasz Adamek
Earnie Shavers ----> Samuel Peter
Ken Norton ----> Sultan Ibragimov
Joe Frazier ----> David Haye
Only about 2 matches are debatable, out of all that list.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Truth
Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"
I think your delusional personally, if these Heavyweights are so better, why are most of them out of shape and slow ? with all the modern training, there slower and have less stamina.
So if the boxers in the old days, are faster and have better stamina. Without the modern training doesn't that make them look even better ?
The fact that a 46 year old 6'2 Evander Holyfield, was able to beat one of the modern Heavyweight champions, in Nikolai Valuev who is 7'0. But Evander Holyfield was robbed of a decision, tells me that size isn't always better.
Also why do the Heavyweights, lack excitement if there so much better ? and why doesn't any normal armchair fan even know who the hell the Heavyweight champion currently is ?
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Hughey
Quote from ICB: I don't think so somehow.
Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
George Foreman ----> Samuel Peter
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek __________________
Hello ICB,
Are you sure all those fighters are from the same era? Ali fought Tunny Hunseker in 1960. He retired in 1981. Lewis' first fight was in 1989, 8 years after Ali retired. Lewis fought Klitchko in 2003, then retired. So you had to span 43 years to dredge up 5 fighters you think could beat the best 5 today. Wow! That makes this division look good, not bad! Think about it.
Realistically, a fighter's prime years are, how many? Maybe 10 to 15, max. You are choosing from three or four generations of fighters, not one. But the Klitschko's, Haye, Peter and Adamek are all from ONE generation. Not a fair comparison. Have another beer.
Well i didn't know you meant just one era but if you insist.
90's
Lennox Lewis ----> Vitali Klitschko
Riddick Bowe ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Michael Moorer ----> Tomasz Adamek
Ike Ibeabuchi ----> Samuel Peter
Evander Holyfield ----> Sultan Ibragimov
David Tua ----> David Haye
80's
Tim Witherspoon ----> Vitali Klitschko
Tony Tucker ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek
Mike Tyson ----> Samuel Peter
Greg Page ----> Sultan Ibragimov
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
70's
Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
George Foreman ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Jimmy Young ----> Tomasz Adamek
Earnie Shavers ----> Samuel Peter
Ken Norton ----> Sultan Ibragimov
Joe Frazier ----> David Haye
Only about 2 matches are debatable, out of all that list.
Wow, I am impressed. I'd love to see those fights, prime vs. prime. I'd love to see what happens. It's a better list than I could ever have dreamed up. I have to admit I don't know all the fighters, but those I know, a lot more than two would be debatable. For instance you picked the best from four eras to fight the Klits. That's 8 that are debatable in my mind.
By debatable, I do not mean I know my guy would win. I mean the fight could go either way.
You picked Jimmy Young to beat Adamek. Very, very debatable. In fact, I'd debate every single fight in your '70's list.
Holmes would whip Hayes' ass. In fact, Holmes might whip every one of my fighters on any given day. But I'd debate every other fight in your '80's list, and, also in your '90's list.
I have to compliment you on your post. I would love to see those match ups.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Truth
Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"
I think your delusional personally, if these Heavyweights are so better, why are most of them out of shape and slow ? with all the modern training, there slower and have less stamina.
So if the boxers in the old days, are faster and have better stamina. Without the modern training doesn't that make them look even better ?
The fact that a 46 year old 6'2 Evander Holyfield, was able to beat one of the modern Heavyweight champions, in Nikolai Valuev who is 7'0. But Evander Holyfield was robbed of a decision, tells me that size isn't always better.
Also why do the Heavyweights, lack excitement if there so much better ?
and why doesn't any normal armchair fan even know who the hell the Heavyweight champion currently is ?
They do, in Germany and Eastern Europe. You're looking at it from a Brit viewpoint which many Americans also shared with you, but not the general consensus whatever.
I know this might be shocking, but there is an entire world out there besides your homeland. Shocking ain't it?
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Truth
Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"
Kind of narrow-minded reasoning, if you ask me. I think people would love to see more athletic, skilled, charismatic heavyweights going at it... regardless of their nationality.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Truth
Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"
Kind of narrow-minded reasoning, if you ask me. I think people would love to see more athletic, skilled, charismatic heavyweights going at it...
regardless of their nationality.
Exactly. Let's say if there was an HW version of a prime Duran, I'm pretty sure he would be very popular amongst casual and hardcore boxing fans and the general public in America.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Truth
Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"
Truth, you make some good points. I'm not sure that America can't still produce some great boxers, though. If the money's there, why not?
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Truth
Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"
One other thing, Truth. Here's why I asked you why America can't produce another great heavyweight. All we need is another heavyweight champion who can beat the best there is in the world if we want the average Joe America to know what the Champ's name is. Hype won't do it. Charisma won't do it. Only winning will do it. And with winning there will come charisma. Face it, we'll never have another Ali. God only made one of those.
If we want the average Joe to know who the heavyweight champ is, we need another great Champ. The problem is not the hype. If the fighter is winning, the fans and media will supply the hype. My God, look at Marciano. Can you remember anything he ever said or did (outside the ring)? But did the fans love him? Does he have charisma now?
So, say it ain't so that America can't produce another great Champ.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Does it have to be "America" to produce the next great HW champion for the division to be hugely popular again? I should sure hope the hell not. I'll state my point again: Boxing is an INTERNATIONAL sport. There's great boxers from every corner of the world. If America can embrace fighters from other countries in other weight divisions, it can sure embrace foreign HWs as well.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
All I'm saying is Americans love to cheer for someone who is their "type". This is generalizing but someone who is loud, confident and a bit brash. Not too multilingual quiet Ukrainian brothers with PHDs. If Haye were to become the undisputed champ they'd love it because it fits their mold. I'm not saying it's correct or fair its just the way it is. We rank the state of boxing by how it does in the USA. Of course the Americans can still produce great champions it's just that their talent pool has been depleted as of late.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Truth
Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"
I think your delusional personally, if these Heavyweights are so better, why are most of them out of shape and slow ? with all the modern training, there slower and have less stamina.
So if the boxers in the old days, are faster and have better stamina. Without the modern training doesn't that make them look even better ?
The fact that a 46 year old 6'2 Evander Holyfield, was able to beat one of the modern Heavyweight champions, in Nikolai Valuev who is 7'0. But Evander Holyfield was robbed of a decision, tells me that size isn't always better.
Also why do the Heavyweights, lack excitement if there so much better ?
and why doesn't any normal armchair fan even know who the hell the Heavyweight champion currently is ?
They do, in Germany and Eastern Europe. You're looking at it from a Brit viewpoint which many Americans also shared with you, but not the general consensus whatever.
I know this might be shocking, but there is an entire world out there besides your homeland. Shocking ain't it?
Well all i know is when i was younger, everyone knew who the Heavyweight champion was. Yes of course in Germany and ETC, they will be popular. Because how many times have they had a Heavyweight to root for ? probably not since Axel Schulz in the 90's.
And yes i am looking at it from a Brit point of view, what way am i supposed to look at it ? i remember back in the day, how exciting it was watching the big Heavyweight fights, and all the hype it used to get.
Now no one even cares or knows anything about the Heavyweight division, except what that read in the paper about David Haye. Yes im talking about Britian because im sharing how much it has changed over here.
And i bet if you done a poll worldwide, if people thought whether or not the Heavyweight division is popular. Well i think we can safely say they would all mostly agree with me, even hardcore boxing fans get bored to fuck watching Heavyweight fights now, so can you imagine armchair fans ?
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Does it have to be "America" to produce the next great HW champion for the division to be hugely popular again? I should sure hope the hell not. I'll state my point again: Boxing is an INTERNATIONAL sport. There's great boxers from every corner of the world. If America can embrace fighters from other countries in other weight divisions, it can sure embrace foreign HWs as well.
Hi Tito,
He has to be American to be popular in America, of course! Ali said it best, "I am the King of the World". Americans are not going to be happy unless the "King of the World" is an American. The King of the World is in Europe right now, and the Europeans are enjoying every moment of it while the Americans are moping.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I think your delusional personally, if these Heavyweights are so better, why are most of them out of shape and slow ? with all the modern training, there slower and have less stamina.
So if the boxers in the old days, are faster and have better stamina. Without the modern training doesn't that make them look even better ?
The fact that a 46 year old 6'2 Evander Holyfield, was able to beat one of the modern Heavyweight champions, in Nikolai Valuev who is 7'0. But Evander Holyfield was robbed of a decision, tells me that size isn't always better.
Also why do the Heavyweights, lack excitement if there so much better ? and why doesn't any normal armchair fan even know who the hell the Heavyweight champion currently is ?
They do, in Germany and Eastern Europe. You're looking at it from a Brit viewpoint which many Americans also shared with you, but not the general consensus whatever.
I know this might be shocking, but there is an entire world out there besides your homeland. Shocking ain't it?
Well all i know is when i was younger, everyone knew who the Heavyweight champion was. Yes of course in Germany and ETC, they will be popular. Because how many times have they had a Heavyweight to root for ? probably not since Axel Schulz in the 90's.
And yes i am looking at it from a Brit point of view, what way am i supposed to look at it ? i remember back in the day, how exciting it was watching the big Heavyweight fights, and all the hype it used to get.
Now no one even cares or knows anything about the Heavyweight division, except what that read in the paper about David Haye. Yes im talking about Britian because im sharing how much it has changed over here.
And i bet if you done a poll worldwide, if people thought whether or not the Heavyweight division is popular. Well i think we can safely say they would all mostly agree with me, even hardcore boxing fans get bored to fuck watching Heavyweight fights now, so can you imagine armchair fans ?
Here's the thing you are applying your view as an Brit to the standards of the worldwide view and claiming it as fact. Maybe the average fan in the UK doesn't know who the Klitschko brothers are and probably America, but in Germany and Eastern Europe they know who they are. You do know how big Eastern Europe is right?
That's like the majority of Americans thinking that soccer is a dead sport and no one watches it, when it is very popular outside of America and many parts of the world. It would be erroneous of me to use the American viewpoint on soccer and applying it to the rest of the world and saying, "No one watches soccer because no one watches it or cares about it in the US! Therefore it must be true for the rest of the world!" That's an illogical way of looking at things.
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Why is all the "He has to be American" debate coming into play...That is BULLSHIT>>>>
What was Lennox Lewis?......Everyone knew who Lennox was.......
To be a known champion you can not stay at home be it Germany, Russia, Ukraine or Jasck Ass Back Street No whereville you have to be shown around the world...
The name of the title is WORLD CHAMPION.....
You don't have to fight everywhere in the world but you sure as hell need to have your fights shown around the world
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Re: Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to
Well, I can see we have strayed a bit off-topic. Perhaps some-one should start a thread about why America will never be happy, and should never be happy, until the belt comes back to the Home of the Brave.
But at least we have managed to reach consensus that the heavyweight division has never been stronger, and that's quite an accomplishment. We should be proud of ourselves.
