UK Prime Ministerial candidate debate

Anyone else drop in on the TV debate between the three hopefuls this evening?

Thought it was a positive thing for British politics, and gave all three of them a fair crack of the whip, although putting David Cameron in the middle and letting him have the last statement seemed to list towards the Tory.

David Cameron and Gordon Brown treated it as an extension of their usual PMQ sparring (for sparring read bickering), and I think the real loser of this was Gordon Brown who was battering at Cameron with belligerent questions, and cosying up to the Lib Dems, who wanted none of him.

Cameron did alright, but he told everyone who asked a question, whatever job they did that they were brilliant.

Nick Clegg came off best I think, spoke eloquently, though addressing his comments to the camera instead of the audience was odd, and asserting fixed policies such as abandoning trident will have won some admiration for honesty, though unlikely to convert the hardcore of either of the main parties.

If any of you stuck it out, what did you think?

So unfortunate to think nick clegg has 0% chance of being PM in a months time

Conducted himself brilliantly throughout as the other 2 fell into the same old trap of trying to appeal to as many different societys as they can without offending anyone.

Cameron did nothing to suggest he isnt just your standard public school boy tory looking after his own, brown actually seemed very heart warming and conducted himself a lot better than expected.

My heart wants to vote libdem but come polling time i will naturally vote labour

didn't watch it all. Clegg came off best IMO. Will be voting lib dem.

Who are these three people ..... and is there an election coming up?

;D

According to the polls Clegg walked it, Brown came second and Cameron third. Or maybe it was Cameron second and Brown third. That's how interested I am, I won't watch it. I'm interested to know the viewing figures though. I's guess closer to ten million than twenty, people are disgusted by them and rightly so. Maybe there'll be a novelty factor in the viewing figures but I'd guess the second and third debates will be closer to ten than twenty for sure.

I wouldnt have liked to be one of the studio cleaners , after the show there must have been at least a foot of bullshit on the floor , I mean it had be dropping out of the three amigo's mouths from the start.

This show was a complete let down. No phone in vote? :(

Much prefer Britain's Got Talent.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

I wouldnt have liked to be one of the studio cleaners , after the show there must have been at least a foot of bullshit on the floor , I mean it had be dropping out of the three amigo's mouths from the start.

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HAHA! ;D

http://i42.tinypic.com/zk63nk.jpg

If Clegg performs like that in the next 2 debates, I could see Lib Dems getting up towards 25% of the National vote. Would put them in a strong position in a hung parliament. For once it may not be a wasted vote :-\

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Originally Posted by BIG H

If Clegg performs like that in the next 2 debates, I could see Lib Dems getting up towards 25% of the National vote. Would put them in a strong position in a hung parliament. For once it may not be a wasted vote :-\

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If they get 25% that probably puts them in front of Labour....but probably means that Cameron would be in the hot seat.... I would love to see a situation where the Lib Dems maybe nudge up towards 30%, but form a coalition with Labour in which Clegg becomes PM, and Gordon Brown has to swallow his pride, and take a demotion and move back to No 11 as the Chancellor. Then he can go back to actually dealing with the mess he's left.

And as for the bullshit Al, they had people in straight away as it's being used for fertiliser in farms across the north.

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

So unfortunate to think nick clegg has 0% chance of being PM in a months time

Conducted himself brilliantly throughout as the other 2 fell into the same old trap of trying to appeal to as many different societys as they can without offending anyone.

Cameron did nothing to suggest he isnt just your standard public school boy tory looking after his own, brown actually seemed very heart warming and conducted himself a lot better than expected.

My heart wants to vote libdem but come polling time i will naturally vote labour

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Oddly enough i actually agree with you. Plus he mentioned Man City aswell.

I felt Brown actually did best given the respective situations of the three of them. He was in the difficult position of having something to defend. Clegg was always on to a winner and so it proved. I thought Cameron looked uncomfortable and was intellectually hammered by Brown. Brown was the only one that actually laid out clear plans. Everything Cameron said, and has ever said, is just populist bullshit. 'Immigration is too high'. Well what are you going to do about it? The only thing he says is they will put a cap in place. But as Clegg and Brown both said that is such crap. Cameron trys to appeal to the common man but in doing so just patronises them. Plus he totally failed to respond to the uncomfortable (for him) fact that immigration has actually fallen for 3 consecutive years and that it was the Tories that did away with any exit controls. The only place Brown didn;t do so well was the closing speeches.

...by all means you can take our President and his fucking idiot sidekick VP

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Originally Posted by ryanman

I felt Brown actually did best given the respective situations of the three of them. He was in the difficult position of having something to defend. Clegg was always on to a winner and so it proved. I thought Cameron looked uncomfortable and was intellectually hammered by Brown. Brown was the only one that actually laid out clear plans. Everything Cameron said, and has ever said, is just populist bullshit. 'Immigration is too high'. Well what are you going to do about it? The only thing he says is they will put a cap in place. But as Clegg and Brown both said that is such crap. Cameron trys to appeal to the common man but in doing so just patronises them. Plus he totally failed to respond to the uncomfortable (for him) fact that immigration has actually fallen for 3 consecutive years and that it was the Tories that did away with any exit controls. The only place Brown didn;t do so well was the closing speeches.

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couldnt agree more with that

And what an extrodinary coincidence that his wife just so happens to announce she is pregnant on the eve of labour calling an election :o:o:o

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

didn't watch it all. Clegg came off best IMO. Will be voting lib dem.

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I haven't seen it in full, but by all accounts it appears that Clegg was the only one saying anything remotely interesting. He is trying to set the Lib Dems apart as somewhat anti-establishment and I think it is the correct approach. People are not happy with Brown who represents the party of war and who was chancellor whilst the economic bubble was brewing. He is not a responsible leader and to try and paint himself as being so is false. Cameron provides no real alternative and TBH I see little distinction between Labour and Tory right now. The Lib Dems aren't massively different, but they are realistic about things and Clegg seems to have his head screwed on straight. I hope a lot of people do become swayed by him. Hung parliament or not, I want to see as many votes go to the Lib Dems as possible. It's time for a sea change in British politics. The main two parties have been too cosy for too long and it's time for the people to wake up and vote for real change. We all know what the Tories are and now Labour has shown us for too long what it is now about.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

didn't watch it all. Clegg came off best IMO. Will be voting lib dem.

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I haven't seen it in full, but by all accounts it appears that Clegg was the only one saying anything remotely interesting. He is trying to set the Lib Dems apart as somewhat anti-establishment and I think it is the correct approach. People are not happy with Brown who represents the party of war and who was chancellor whilst the economic bubble was brewing. He is not a responsible leader and to try and paint himself as being so is false. Cameron provides no real alternative and TBH I see little distinction between Labour and Tory right now. The Lib Dems aren't massively different, but they are realistic about things and Clegg seems to have his head screwed on straight. I hope a lot of people do become swayed by him. Hung parliament or not, I want to see as many votes go to the Lib Dems as possible. It's time for a sea change in British politics. The main two parties have been too cosy for too long and it's time for the people to wake up and vote for real change. We all know what the Tories are and now Labour has shown us for too long what it is now about.

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vote bnp???????????????????????????









i`ll get my coat

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

didn't watch it all. Clegg came off best IMO. Will be voting lib dem.

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I haven't seen it in full, but by all accounts it appears that Clegg was the only one saying anything remotely interesting. He is trying to set the Lib Dems apart as somewhat anti-establishment and I think it is the correct approach. People are not happy with Brown who represents the party of war and who was chancellor whilst the economic bubble was brewing. He is not a responsible leader and to try and paint himself as being so is false. Cameron provides no real alternative and TBH I see little distinction between Labour and Tory right now. The Lib Dems aren't massively different, but they are realistic about things and Clegg seems to have his head screwed on straight. I hope a lot of people do become swayed by him. Hung parliament or not, I want to see as many votes go to the Lib Dems as possible. It's time for a sea change in British politics. The main two parties have been too cosy for too long and it's time for the people to wake up and vote for real change. We all know what the Tories are and now Labour has shown us for too long what it is now about.

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vote bnp???????????????????????????









i`ll get my coat

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:11fb8:

Voting for Lib Dem isn't aiming for real change though is it.

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Voting for Lib Dem isn't aiming for real change though is it.

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agreed

almost like voting to no vote

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Voting for Lib Dem isn't aiming for real change though is it.

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To an extent I would agree. But considering how the main two are going about things, the Lib Dems are like a breath of fresh air. They are the only viable alternative and the only hope of anything remotely positive or different.

I was watching Question Time after the debates, and the presenter asked Labour's Ed Milliband:

"Wouldn't a hung parliament be the worst possible result?"

He replied: "It's not the worst POSSIBLE result, no...."

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Voting for Lib Dem isn't aiming for real change though is it.

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I suppose it depends on how big the change you're looking for is. There's the far right and the far left who would be willing to destroy the current system for you, but I don't see either side's arguments getting enough oxygen to build any kind of base. The Greens are proposing their environmental revolution and promising 500,000 new "green" jobs. I think the real choice has to be which part of the middle ground do we take.

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

I was watching Question Time after the debates, and the presenter asked Labour's Ed Milliband:

"Wouldn't a hung parliament be the worst possible result?"

He replied: "It's not the worst POSSIBLE result, no...."

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Voting for Lib Dem isn't aiming for real change though is it.

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I suppose it depends on how big the change you're looking for is. There's the far right and the far left who would be willing to destroy the current system for you, but I don't see either side's arguments getting enough oxygen to build any kind of base. The Greens are proposing their environmental revolution and promising 500,000 new "green" jobs. I think the real choice has to be which part of the middle ground do we take.

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correct me if im wrong here as im a complete political novice

The likelihood is a hung parliament with a tory majority. Does that then mean Mr Cameron goes to buckingham palace and asks the queens permission to form a government consisting pretty much of all colours of the rainbow which in turn would cause chaos in trying to get new measures passed what with both sides simply choosing to cancel eachother out?

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

I was watching Question Time after the

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Voting for Lib Dem isn't aiming for real change though is it.

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I suppose it depends on how big the change you're looking for is.

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Ah you got me there.

Personally, I'd like to see someone come up and turn this country on it's head.

politically I'm green/anarchist but there isn't such a party. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

politically I'm green/anarchist but there isn't such a party. :cool:

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See... Why do we have to be seen to vote for change? Why cant we/ don't we just change it our bloody selves?!

I'm starting to hog threads again. I'm going for lunch :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

I was watching Question Time after the debates, and the presenter asked Labour's Ed Milliband:

"Wouldn't a hung parliament be the worst possible result?"

He replied: "It's not the worst POSSIBLE result, no...."

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Voting for Lib Dem isn't aiming for real change though is it.

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I suppose it depends on how big the change you're looking for is. There's the far right and the far left who would be willing to destroy the current system for you, but I don't see either side's arguments getting enough oxygen to build any kind of base. The Greens are proposing their environmental revolution and promising 500,000 new "green" jobs. I think the real choice has to be which part of the middle ground do we take.

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correct me if im wrong here as im a complete political novice

The likelihood is a hung parliament with a tory majority. Does that then mean Mr Cameron goes to buckingham palace and asks the queens permission to form a government consisting pretty much of all colours of the rainbow which in turn would cause chaos in trying to get new measures passed what with both sides simply choosing to cancel eachother out?

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If there is a hung parliament the party that received most votes does not have to be included in a coalition. So say if the Tories got most seats but not an overall majority it could be the Lib Dems and Labour that form a coalition. In regards to coalitions not getting anything done that is usually the fear. But they have worked before and do work very well in other countries. It wouldn't be so bad I don't think as it would force a period of consenus and real problem solving rather than the usual adverserial populist crap.

I'm not entirely sure myself Missy, but I imagine that if the Tories don't get a majority, and Labour/Lib Dems have enough if they join together then they could form their own coalition.

Tried to find out on the BBC website, and I think this says that it's possible, but not entirely sure:

BBC News - Q&A: What is a hung parliament?

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

I'm not entirely sure myself Missy, but I imagine that if the Tories don't get a majority, and Labour/Lib Dems have enough if they join together then they could form their own coalition.

Tried to find out on the BBC website, and I think this says that it's possible, but not entirely sure:

BBC News - Q&A: What is a hung parliament?

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That is correct.

I know quite a lot about this crap . Feel free to ask any questions relating to processes etc. I have a politics degree don't you know? ;)

:toff::toff::toff:

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Originally Posted by ryanman

I know quite a lot about this crap . Feel free to ask any questions relating to processes etc. I have a politics degree don't you know? ;)

:toff::toff::toff:

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With your expertise in these opposame matters, can you tell me who is most likely to "win" the next debate?

The yellow man is now 1/2 favourite (5/2 blue 5/1 red). Now that people know who the yellow man is, surely that puts him under the cosh for the next show?

Do you think a blue or red bet is value? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ryanman

I know quite a lot about this crap . Feel free to ask any questions relating to processes etc. I have a politics degree don't you know? ;)

:toff::toff::toff:

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With your expertise in these opposame matters, can you tell me who is most likely to "win" the next debate?

The yellow man is now 1/2 favourite (5/2 blue 5/1 red). Now that people know who the yellow man is, surely that puts him under the cosh for the next show?

Do you think a blue or red bet is value? Thanks.

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Haha, Ryanman has the same degree as me. But the truth is that history and politics is the most pointless of all subjects that anyone could ever study. It leads nowhere. Only to intelligent people saying "why did my intelligence lead nowhere?" It can lead somewhere, but nowhere beyond the music store.

This is part of the con. We all need education! Do we fuck! We don't need an education. But the government fed that shit for too many years.

Just make sure you don't vote Labour nor Tory...or you are commiting suicide. At least the Lib Dems suggest some hope.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ryanman

I know quite a lot about this crap . Feel free to ask any questions relating to processes etc. I have a politics degree don't you know? ;)

:toff::toff::toff:

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With your expertise in these opposame matters, can you tell me who is most likely to "win" the next debate?

The yellow man is now 1/2 favourite (5/2 blue 5/1 red). Now that people know who the yellow man is, surely that puts him under the cosh for the next show?

Do you think a blue or red bet is value? Thanks.

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Haha, Ryanman has the same degree as me. But the truth is that history and politics is the most pointless of all subjects that anyone could ever study. It leads nowhere. Only to intelligent people saying "why did my intelligence lead nowhere?" It can lead somewhere, but nowhere beyond the music store.

This is part of the con. We all need education! Do we fuck! We don't need an education. But the government fed that shit for too many years.

Just make sure you don't vote Labour nor Tory...or you are commiting suicide. At least the Lib Dems suggest some hope.

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You are very right about the pointlessness of a Politics degree Miles...If only I knew in advance! I wish I studied a vocational subject. Still perhaps I can put it to use to earn Fenster some money. (see next post).

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ryanman

I know quite a lot about this crap . Feel free to ask any questions relating to processes etc. I have a politics degree don't you know? ;)

:toff::toff::toff:

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With your expertise in these opposame matters, can you tell me who is most likely to "win" the next debate?

The yellow man is now 1/2 favourite (5/2 blue 5/1 red). Now that people know who the yellow man is, surely that puts him under the cosh for the next show?

Do you think a blue or red bet is value? Thanks.

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A few factors to consider here (as ever).
All things been equal I would still expect Clegg to 'win' the next debate due to some of the same factors that 'won' him the first debate, but by a much smaller margin as he now has expectations on him.
But the theme of the next debate is 'international issues' - something which should favour the incumbant (ie Brown). This theme should hurt Cameron as he has no actual experience on such matters and will be seen as a bit of a novice/lightweight on such issues. This is obviously an issue for Clegg too but he will be hurt less because the Lib Dems opposed the war in Iraq.

In terms of who I think will do best in the next debate I'm quite sure it will be Brown. But in terms of who will 'win' (as decided by polls) it will probably be Clegg again. I happen to think that in terms of who did best last night it was Clegg, Brown then Cameron. But the polls don't reflect that. That is Brown's main problem - the residual dislike of him plus the fact that the incumbant is the only one that has something to defend. He will have to absolutely kick arse to be given the win. But, I think that he represents a better shot than Cameron on this next debate. Basically because Cameron is caught between two stools. He can't attack Brown's foreign policies because he supported most of them but he also doesn't get the 'better the devil you know' effect that plays quite strongly in international issues.

So, in summary, Clegg is the safe bet but Brown is the value. Just don't back Cameron. (although Cameron probably has a better chance of coming second than Brown does, but has less chance of winning. Fenster will know what I mean).

With the theme for the next episode being international issues, here's how I think it'll go, and how I think Clegg has to be more careful in this one.

Afghanistan :- Here we'll be getting a middle of the road line for all parties, a swift withdrawal would be construed as reckless and leaving the Afghanis to the Taliban, whilst looking at it as too permanent occupation is likely to raise cost implication arguments. Phased withdrawal all-round. Expect Cameron to attack Brown again regarding helicopters and equipment, and whilst those two bicker Clegg will come out well.

Iran & North Korea :- This is where I think Clegg could trip himself up a little. If he bangs the anti-trident drum too much he might lose some support, he needs to emphasise the international co-operation side, and that action by all other nations together will be more effective at solving problems than a few nuclear warheads. Expect Brown and Cameron to argue over the small details whilst both supporting keeping trident because we need the deterrent, whether it makes lesser nations to aspire to being nuclear powers or not.

Europe and US :- Not sure if the tories are as anti-europe as they used to be, but I'm sure Cameron will attack regarding the amendments to the European constitution which were passed through without referendum, whilst Clegg and Brown posture whilst maintaining the status quo. As for the US, they'll all want to maintain the special relationship without excluding the rest of the world.

I think Brown is going to get hammered in this one, there's been too many mistakes internationally in the last 13 years for him to come out on top. I'd say Cameron's the value bet but Clegg a strong favourite again.

I think Clegg is firm favourite for the next round. The anti war position immediately has him ahead of the other parties and I think most intelligent people see the fallacy behind the Iraq war and the flaws in reasoning in how the Afghan conflict was approached. I don't see how Clegg can mess this one up. Both Labour and the Tories blur too much on these issues and the Lib Dems stand totally apart.

I think the Iran issue is a load of BS. It's an American manufactured non issue. But of course Britain, the humble lapdog wants to look look cute in the eyes of the Americans. I think the biggest threat to peace in the Middle East is Israel which is conveniently allowed it's own stockpile of nuclear weapons, breaks international law and is creating a new apartheid. I would really like a party to take a step back on this issue and tell it for what it is, but it won't happen. Every sensible nation will be trying to build nuclear weapons and that is understandable in this unreasonable age of pre-emptive strikes. North Korea should have been dealt with far more forcibly than Iraq.....but nothing....ahh no resources whatsover! Britain should really keep out of international affairs and let America implode on its own. There will be no radical voice on these issues though which is a shame.

The Lib Dems seem very much in favour of EU integration and I think this is pretty much agreed within each of the parties. I don't think the Tories are in any way as hardline as they used to be. They have become a much more pragmatic party just like Labour. I'm not really convinced on the issue of Europe myself. I see the good and the bad and struggle to get righteous about it.

The polls suggest that Clegg has made an impact. A 3 horse race now, I'm fine with that. Just as long as the two main ones slip as much as possible.

Lib Dems leapfrog Labour in polls - Yahoo! News UK

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Originally Posted by miles

The polls suggest that Clegg has made an impact. A 3 horse race now, I'm fine with that. Just as long as the two main ones slip as much as possible.

Lib Dems leapfrog Labour in polls - Yahoo! News UK

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wouldnt look to much into that milo. If that poll is indeed right im pretty sure labour mantain power on the basis they`ll have more electoral seats.

the general concensous from all the polls totalled up tends to suggest its more like 38%-tory, 32%-labour, 22%-libdem, 8%-others (UKIP, green, SNP, BNP etc)

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by miles

The polls suggest that Clegg has made an impact. A 3 horse race now, I'm fine with that. Just as long as the two main ones slip as much as possible.

Lib Dems leapfrog Labour in polls - Yahoo! News UK

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wouldnt look to much into that milo. If that poll is indeed right im pretty sure labour mantain power on the basis they`ll have more electoral seats.

the general concensous from all the polls totalled up tends to suggest its more like 38%-tory, 32%-labour, 22%-libdem, 8%-others (UKIP, green, SNP, BNP etc)

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Yeah I read this morning that if the Yahoo polls were replicated in the election then Labour will still have to majority of seats in the House of Commons despite polling lower than the Lib Dems and Conservatives. I think they'd have something like 248 seats compared to just over 200 for the Tories and about 130 for the Lib Dems, although I can't remember the exact figures.

Hard to judge after that debate, Clegg definitley came across the best and put the Lib Dems out there as a viable alternative. I actually thought Cameron fared the worst, some of his policies were slaughtered and he didn't really answer many questions about what he would do e.g the immigration cap. What type of cap are we looking at? How would it work exactly? Whats the point in saying what you want to do if you can't back it up with a workable plan, or include at least rough figures of what we'd be looking at in terms of cuts or limits etc.

I agree with those that said considering the circumstances, Gordon Brown did well. He was always going to get the other 2 saying "you've had 13 years, why are you only suggesting this now?"

Clegg should do well again in the next debate, although I think he wants further integration within Europe, which may dent some support as there seems to be a lot of negativity towards the EU among the public. Brown's going to have to attempt to defend the indefensible in the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I don't think anyone's going to buy his BS when it comes to these topics. Should be interesting to see what he has to say on these issues.

Did you see the way Brown was cosying up to Glegg. You know what they will do when there is a hung parliament. ;)

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by miles

The polls suggest that Clegg has made an impact. A 3 horse race now, I'm fine with that. Just as long as the two main ones slip as much as possible.

Lib Dems leapfrog Labour in polls - Yahoo! News UK

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wouldnt look to much into that milo. If that poll is indeed right im pretty sure labour mantain power on the basis they`ll have more electoral seats.

the general concensous from all the polls totalled up tends to suggest its more like 38%-tory, 32%-labour, 22%-libdem, 8%-others (UKIP, green, SNP, BNP etc)

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True, only early days yet, but a glimmer of hope for those that care. I despise the British first past the post system though. :-\

I was reading this interesting article today looking at the unspoken issue of Afghanistan. I might have started my idiots in the military thread, but you know, I would sooner have no wars and would certainly much rather have nobody in the military being killed for what is no more than an imperial measure to secure future gas reserves. Over 40 British troops dead this year already. And nobody is talking about it. They should be though, the war is 9 years old and no end is in sight.

Afghanistan: A conspiracy of silence - UK Politics, UK - The Independent