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To Hell with Haye. Give Povetkin or Dimitrenko a chance. They've earned it. The only reason Haye is such a hot property is because he is not from eastern Europe.
Besides, I am tired of these over-muscled freaky cruiserweights fighting in the heavyweight division. Haye, Holyfield. You never saw guys like this before steroids were invented. I wonder why.
Yawn
To hell with him for what? Moving up in weight and being in shape?
Anyone noticed how everyone is on roids now since Floyd has been spouting his shit?
Sorry mate, u might be a good lad and everthing, but what a bullshit threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
It's Lyle in disguise.
Everyone was on roids before Floyd mentioned it but nobody bothered about it.
The whole everyone is on roids shit has got to go...I know a ton of guys who have better builds then Haye and are not on roids...
Cheik Congo from the UFC I know never took roids and Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje the actor From OZ who played Simon Adebisi is another one who hardly even works out according to his own admission is not on roids both are muscular as one can come...So muscles do not equal roids....
YouTube - You failQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
Hell, I think you guys are on steroids, the way you talk. Are you? Or maybe something else?
.
But I am probably all wrong. I want to sincerely thank you guys for helping me realize that boxing isn't as crooked as a barrel of snakes like I once thought. I see now it's a well-regulated sport and there is no chance anyone could take steroids and get away with it. I doubt that anyone, not Holyfield, Haye, Adamek or anyone else would risk their good names just to fight up in the bigs for the money. I should be ashamed and I do apologize.:eek:
It must be really blissful, the state you're in, Daxx.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I got nothing against Haye. He beat up an overmatched John Ruiz, and looked impressive doing it. But he's got a big mouth as well... and when you talk as much as he does, you've got to put up or shut up. The Klitschkos are calling him out, and in boxing's chess match it seems it's now Haye's move.
What you say is true. Haye is asking for too much. Wlad is begging him to fight. My God, how many fighters in history would hesitate to fight the champ if they got a chance? Even if they only thought maybe they could get in that lucky punch? That's why I say to Wlad "Fight Dimitrenko, fight Potemkin, fight Adamek. Hell, fight Peter again. Later on you'll find out any of those guys could take Haye (if Haye would fight them)."Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Maj, could you put that YouTube video up on "Funniest Posts of all time" thread? I tried, but I don't have the tech skills to do it.Quote:
I'd rather beefed up freaky cruiserweights fighting at heavyweight than giant fat hairy slobs filling the division..
To hell with Haye for taking a giant break after barely doing anything in HW yet, but can't say I agree with much else of this thread..
Well thats it. Haye hasn't signed to fight Wlad within 2 weeks and broken the record for fastest ever negotiated HW unification fight, so lets all send him to hell and accuse him of being on steroids. In fact fuck it lets send him to the "chair". Let the fucker fry, eh hughey??
What an absolutey pathetic fucking thread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
Yes fat, unfit out of shape americans all the way!
Ali used to weigh in at around 15 stone - steroids
Tyson, over 15 stone - Steroids
Foreman - roids
Frazier - roids
Liston - roids
Lewis - roids
shall I go on?
Just cuz american heavyweights don't know how to get in shape anymore but the europeans do, is no need to start bashing them.
I agree with rjj tszyu. People are getting really desperate with haye. I like the fact the guy is taking his time, doing what he wants, and pissing people off in the process. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
I think a big factor in why so many athletes take steroids is because the performance bar has been raised by an all natural bad ass, John Ruiz. Without steroids other people would not be able to keep up, and boxing would die as a result of it because John Ruiz could possibly kill someone unknowingly because he would be like "I can punch this man hard because he is on steroids he can take it better" and then he does punch the man hard and then the man dies and then John Ruiz would be told afterwards "Sorry John he was not on steroids you punched him so hard he evaporated, if only he was on steroids"
So it is a catch 22 for sure.
I used to get asked if I was on steroids loads of times, probably cos I had a 11.4 inch bicpes and I hung around with the beginners at the gym, to show them the ropes.
hahahahaha! ;D
Wow, I must really have touched a sore spot here. Some of you guys are so sensitive! There must be some sort of history here I don't know about. It's like you've been traumatized and can't react rationally.
Thanks Fantana for your take on this, a cool head when everyone has lost theirs.
So, there's not a lot of steroid use in the boxing world? Ok. If you want to believe that I don't want to burst any bubbles.
And this Haye ducking the Klits thing has only been going on for two weeks? Give me a break.
I still think Wlad should fight some of the fighters who deserve a shot and let Haye spin round in his own little world for a while until he either wakes up and challenges the champ or fades into obscurity.
:rotflmao:Quote:
Lol tbf, i called this in off topic. ;D
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
When were steroids 'invented' :rolleyes: they were discovered and synthonized before the second world war and used in sport along with other PEDs like amphetamines since the 19 fucking 40s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
have a clue before you open your mouth... you're only 60-70 years late.
First things first, i dont hate Haye,neither am i a nuthugger and im not gonna jump all over him because he hasnt signed to fight either Klit already, but i will say one thing; I wouldnt be one bit surprised when he does fight again it will be against Adamek. I can almost smell it.
Whilst I agree with your point Daxx, using an actor as an analogy is terrible. Whilst AAA might have a muscular build, that has no relation to Haye as he's not an athlete, so therefore he can put on a load of excess muscle because it never has to be put used for physical endurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I was more or less just making reference to the original post where he said without steroids guys cant become as muscular as Holyfield and Haye are....Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinWhilst I agree with your point Daxx, using an actor as an analogy is terrible. Whilst AAA might have a muscular build, that has no relation to Haye as he's not an athlete, so therefore he can put on a load of excess muscle because it never has to be put used for physical endurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Just trying to say steroids are not always needed to gain such builds...really was not even bothering to comment on the whole roids thing as it is a topic that gets out of hand and everyone becomes a scientist after doing some internet research on the ASAP...
Adam, if you aren't careful you're going to grow up to be a nit-picker.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWhen were steroids 'invented' :rolleyes: they were discovered and synthonized before the second world war and used in sport along with other PEDs like amphetamines since the 19 fucking 40s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
have a clue before you open your mouth... you're only 60-70 years late.
I'm pretty sure you're a wind up artist. Fact is that Haye is doing some Heavyweight tap dancing... It's always been a part of boxing/promoting. Sooner or later people see through it. It is what it is. Haye will either fight for another title or figth his mandatorys, make up excuses and retire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave HugheyAdam, if you aren't careful you're going to grow up to be a nit-picker.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBWhen were steroids 'invented' :rolleyes: they were discovered and synthonized before the second world war and used in sport along with other PEDs like amphetamines since the 19 fucking 40s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
have a clue before you open your mouth... you're only 60-70 years late.
Haye is not on steroids.
discussing things is one thing but putting inflamatory statements up is another.
[quote=PRIDE OF BOSTON;868218]Boston, I am sorry you think that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
I can see why you might see me as "inflamatory". I prefer to think of myself as "radical". The root reason for most of my posts is to expose as false today's prevailing idea that today's heavyweight division is inferior to the division in past decades.
I'll cut this apology short and quote an article by Nat Fleischer of Ring Magazine about Cassius Clay from 1971, when Ali was 29 and at his prime. It's this mentality that I see prevalent on this site. I apologize for the long read, but it's all about boxing, so hope you enjoy.
ld Ring magazineCLAY AN ALL-TIME TOP 10?
DEFINITELY NO!
(The Ring, September 1971)
By Nat Fleischer
As I have had it listed in The Ring Record Book for some years, my all-time rating of heavyweights is as follows: 1. Jack Johnsonhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adT...lass_10x10.gif, 2. Jim Jeffries, 3. Bob Fitzsimmons, 4. Jack Dempsey, 5. James J. Corbett, 6. Joe Louis, 7. Sam Langford, 8. Gene Tunney, 9. Max Schmeling, 10. Rocky Marciano.
I started the annual ranking of heavyweights in the 1953 with only six listed: 1. Jack Johnson, 2. Jim Jeffries, 3. Bob Fitzsimmons, 4. Jack Dempsey, 5. James J. Corbett, 6. Joe Louishttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adT...lass_10x10.gif.
In later years I found it necessary to expand the ratings in all classes to top 10, with these top listings: heavyweights, Jack Johnson; light heavies, Kid McCoy; middleweights, Stan Ketchel; welters, Joe Walcott; lightweights, Joe Gans; feathers, Terry McGovern; bantams, George Dixon; flyweights, Jimmy Wilde.
For some time now I have been under great pressure from some readers of The Ring magazine and of The Ring Record Book, as well, to revise my ratings, especially in the heavyweight division.
Here is a strange facet to this pressure move. It has concerned, chiefly, Cassius Clay.
Never before in the history of the ratings did I find myself pressured to revise the listing of a heavyweight, right on top of a defeat.
There was considerable pressure to include Clay among the Top 10 during his 3 1/2-year interlude of inactivity.
But the campaign became stronger after Clay had returned with knockout victories over Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena. The demand on behalf of Clay became strongest after he had been beaten by world champion Joe Frazier in a 15-round contest that saw Cassius decked in the final heat.
Clay’s fight with Frazier left thousands of his admirers, who had seen the contest over television, protesting that Clay had won and that the unanimous decision of referee Arthur Mercante and judges Artie Aidala and Bill Recht, was a hoax, or worse.
Before we go any farther, let us dispose of this point. Frazier was declared the winner without a dissenting vote because he was the winner with unanimous force and unbiased conviction.
Clay never hurt Frazier. He messed up Joe’s left eye and made it look as if there had been an indecisive result, or a definite verdict in favor of Clay. Clay’s gloves reached Frazier more often than Frazier’s punches reached Clay. But Cassius lacked force.
Clay was hurt, especially in the 11th and 15th rounds. Clay came near being knocked out in the play-acting 11th. Clay’s constant retreat to the ropes was the tipoff on the fight.
I sat in the first press row in the Garden and emphatically saw Clay beaten. However, we have thousands of Clay backers insisting that he had established himself as one of the all time Top 10.
I did not regard Ali as a member of the leading 10 before he got into his argument with the Federal Courts. I did not see, in the Clay record as it stood after his seven-round knockout of Zora Folley in New York on March 22, 1967, any reason for my revising the heavyweight listing to include Cassius among the all-time 10. Nor did the Quarry, Bonavena, and Frazier fights impress me to the point at which I found myself considering ousting one of my Great 10 to make room for Clay.
Suppose I suffered an aberration and decided to include Clay among the top 10. This would mean ousting Marciano to make room for Ali as my all-time number l0. That would be farcical. Clay never could have beaten Marciano. Clay’s record is not the superior of the one the tragic Rocky left behind him when he retired from boxing unbeaten.
I even had something to do with Clay’s winning the Olympic light heavyweight championship in Rome in 1960. I spotted him for a likely Gold Medal, but I did not like the way he was training—or rather, not training. Cassius was entertaining the gals of the Italian capital, with gags and harmonica playing, and forgetting what he had been entered for.
I gave him a lecture and a warning. Maybe it had something to do with his victory. Maybe he would have won just the same. But I doubt if my talk did any harm.
After Cassius had won the title I felt that we had another Floyd Patterson in the making. He did not have Patterson’s speed of hands at that time, but he had more speed of foot. And more animation, which, of course, is an understatement. Floyd never has been a paragon of vivacity.
As Clay left the Olympic ring a champion, I saw him growing fast into a heavyweight. And I treated myself to a dream. I said to myself, “This kid could go far. It all depends on his attitude, his ability to tackle his job earnestly and seriously. Some of his laughter could be a real asset.” Ultimately it was.
Neither animus nor bias, neither bigotry nor misjudgment, can be cited against me in my relations with Cassius Clay. After he had been found guilty of a felony by a Federal jury in Houston, and Judge Joe Ingraham had sentenced Ali to five years in a penitentiary and a fine of $10,000, there was a rush to take the title from the draft-refusing champion.
The Ring magazine refused to join in the campaign against Clay, a stand now thoroughly vindicated. The Ring insisted that Cassius was entitled to his day in court, and that his title could be taken from him only if he lost it in the ring, or he retired from boxing, as Marciano, Tunney, and Jeffries had done before him.
Pressure on The Ring was tremendous. But this magazine would not recede one iota from its never relaxed policy of fighting for Law and Order.
Only when Muhammad Ali announced that he would fight no more and asked permission to give The Ring world championship belt to the winner of the Frazier-Jimmy Ellis fight, did The Ring declare the title vacated and drop Clay from the ratings.
With Clay’s return to the ring, The Ring revived his rating among the top 10 heavyweights. Not until Frazier knocked out Ellis in five rounds did The Ring allocate the vacant world title to Joe.
I do not mean to derogate Clay as a boxer. I am thoroughly cognizant of every fistic attribute he throws into the arena, every impressive quality he displayed on his way to the title and in fighting off the challenges of Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, George Chuvalo, Henry Cooper, Brian London, Karl Mildenberger, Cleveland Williams, Ernie Terrell, and Zora Folley.
When Ali went into his 3 1/2-year retirement, he had not yet achieved his personal crest. Nor did the fights with Quarry, Bonavena and Frazier, which marked his return to action, send him any farther in the direction of fulfillment of claims of his loyal supporters.
The way Cassius Clay stands, he does not qualify for rating with the greatest heavyweights of all time. Nor, the way the future shapes up for him, is he likely to qualify. Now his hands are quick. His footwork is quick. His punch is not the type that is calculated to stop a man forthwith, no matter what he did to Sonny Liston in their second encounter, at Lewiston, Maine.
Cassius has got to wear down his opponent. He has got to flick his glove into the eyes of the opposition, the way he did against Frazier. He has a style all his own. But its sui generis quality does not make him one of the top 10.
I want to give credit to Clay for punching boxing out of the doldrums into which it fell with the rise of Liston to the championship. Liston could not get a license in New York. Liston had a bad personal record. Liston was emphatically not good for boxing. Into the midst of this title situation came the effervescent kid from Louisville, favored by conditions, by his potential, by his personality and his clean personal record.
The situation called for a Clay and, fortunately, the situation was favored with one. He was the counterpart, in boxing, of Babe Ruth in baseball, after the Black Sox Scandal.
Through superior punching power, Frazier is Clay’s current better as a ringster. But Frazier has yet to develop the overall influence that Clay exercised. Nor does it appear likely that Joe will ever be to boxing what Cassius was when he became the world champion and when he stirred up world boxing with his exploits against the best opposition available pending the development of Frazier, another Olympic hero.
I have the utmost admiration for Cassius Clay as a ring technician. Certainly not for his attitude toward the United States and its armed forces. Of that mess he is legally clear.
I do not see Cassius Clay as a candidate for a place among the top 10 heavyweights. Nor may Frazier, his conqueror, eventually force me to revise my all-time heavyweight ratings.
Do you think Nat Fleischer might have eaten his words by now? LOL
By the way, Boston. You state categorically that Haye isn't on steroids. Do you have evidence to back that up or is just your opinion?
If I wasn't so damn nice I'd neg rep your ass however I am so please pretend I did, this thread sucks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
heavyweight scene so pathetically weak i cant think of anyone who deserves a shot at any of the titlesQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
Vitali has used steroids before - why has no one mentioned that yet? ;)
Really? When was this? was it while in Boxing or before?Quote:
Originally Posted by koppas
Back in 1996 - he was thrown off the Ukranian boxing team for the 1996 Olympics when he tested positive for a banned substance to heal an injury quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnReally? When was this? was it while in Boxing or before?Quote:
Originally Posted by koppas
Fair enough he has been clean ever since but, as someone said, once a cheat, always a cheat. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasBack in 1996 - he was thrown off the Ukranian boxing team for the 1996 Olympics when he tested positive for a banned substance to heal an injury quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnReally? When was this? was it while in Boxing or before?Quote:
Originally Posted by koppas
Fair enough he has been clean ever since but, as someone said, once a cheat, always a cheat. ;D
Really?...I am almost embarrassed I never caught the story...
If Vitali Klitschko Retires 40-2, Where Would He Rank?
After looking on the net I found one in the link above...
Thanks for the article, Daxx. I think he'll end up in the HOF. But if either Klit has actually been clean, I wish he'd come out in support of thorough drug testing for at least all the important fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnQuote:
Originally Posted by koppasBack in 1996 - he was thrown off the Ukranian boxing team for the 1996 Olympics when he tested positive for a banned substance to heal an injury quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Fair enough he has been clean ever since but, as someone said, once a cheat, always a cheat. ;D
Really?...I am almost embarrassed I never caught the story...
If Vitali Klitschko Retires 40-2, Where Would He Rank?
After looking on the net I found one in the link above...
I wish all the champions wouldQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave HugheyThanks for the article, Daxx. I think he'll end up in the HOF. But if either Klit has actually been clean, I wish he'd come out in support of thorough drug testing for at least all the important fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnQuote:
Originally Posted by koppas
Really?...I am almost embarrassed I never caught the story...
If Vitali Klitschko Retires 40-2, Where Would He Rank?
After looking on the net I found one in the link above...
Wow I thought it was common knowledge that Vitali tested positive. But it was before he was a pro fighter and has never tested positive since. IMO he learned his lesson, his brother took the gold that he will believe should have been his.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnI wish all the champions wouldQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave HugheyThanks for the article, Daxx. I think he'll end up in the HOF. But if either Klit has actually been clean, I wish he'd come out in support of thorough drug testing for at least all the important fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Wlad was going to fight in the HW's at the 96 olympics. Hard to believe when you look at him squeezing his body DOWN to 240lbs now that he could have ever made that weight and be strong there though.
Maybe and maybe not... You could have sumed it up for me, cuz that was brutal. Either way, the ring magazine is not the "end all be all" it thinks it is... In fact, most on this site would agree that it's rankings are ridiculous many times... You're siting an article written by one man... Using one man's line of thinking in a magazine... albeit the self proclaimed "bible of boxing"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
You stated:
"
To Hell with Haye. Give Povetkin or Dimitrenko a chance. They've earned it. The only reason Haye is such a hot property is because he is not from eastern Europe.
Besides, I am tired of these over-muscled freaky cruiserweights fighting in the heavyweight division. Haye, Holyfield. You never saw guys like this before steroids were invented. I wonder why."
I am not a Haye fan but you say"earned it" in regards to Povetkin and Dimitrenko... A world title hasn't "earned it" for Haye? And stating he's a hot comodity because he's not from Eastern Europe is a very ignorant statement. He's a hot comodity because he is fast, explosive, powerful and is a character. He has a mouth... It sells fights.
You tired of overly muscled, freaky cruiserweights fighting in the HW division? What? Holyfield was a fantastic HW. Tyson? Explosive power(not a cruiser but was very muscular)
Steroids were invented long before you saw guys like Tyson and Holyfield in the ring. Genetics does have a HUGE amount to do with it.
You are not radical. In fact, your threads seem to be about the same shit all the time. Watch some welterweights or lightweights so you have something interesting to talk about. Your posts are all about the most unexciting division in boxing...
...and no, I do not have proof to show he's not taking steroids but neither do you that alot of these guys have... so stop with the bullshit.
Yeah thats why I was saying I am almost embarrassed for not knowing...It was not until the Lennox fight did I ever follow anything on Vitali...I seen his fights but took no real interest as like most my eyes were on Wlad (Pre Sanders)......As amateurs I just pretty much knew of them and of course knew of Wlads success but never even followed Vitaly thenQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuWow I thought it was common knowledge that Vitali tested positive. But it was before he was a pro fighter and has never tested positive since. IMO he learned his lesson, his brother took the gold that he will believe should have been his.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnI wish all the champions wouldQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hughey
Wlad was going to fight in the HW's at the 96 olympics. Hard to believe when you look at him squeezing his body DOWN to 240lbs now that he could have ever made that weight and be strong there though.