Saddo's Pound For Pound Voting (Summer 2010) voting open till May 31st

Ok people, it's the return of the Saddo's Pound For Pound Top 10, anyone unfamiliar with it, should get the gist of it here, if there's anything unclear let me know.

Because I don't have as much time on my hands, I will only update the list once every 6 months, apart from moving the boxers up a place each if say Hopkins retires or something. This means I will try & drop a new one at the start of June & December. To this I will stop counting votes at the end of the preiouvs month. Once you've made you're list, unless you update it I will assume it stays the same, although if a poster only posts briefly & then disappears for a large amount of time I will disregard their vote.

Only three rules, you have to submit at least a Top 10 (preferably top 20 if you can as this will make it easier for me to analyse a top 10 better), so that means no simply going 'Pacquiao/Mayweather/Arnaoutis number 1!!!!', if you don't submit at least a full top 10 your vote won't be counted. If possible please do a Top 20.

Secondly, you can only nominate officially active boxers, so no Calzaghe nominations unless they come out of retirement.

Thirdly, to vote you must have at least a 100 posts by the time of the end of each vote. This rule has been brought in after some suspicious voting on our first run of the votes. Any votes thought to be trying to influence the result will be ignored. This will only be done after a check of said poster's posting history on said fighter they are thought to be trying to influence against. This is after a rash of these last time out.

Want to stress that everyone's vote is worth the same whether they be one of the older, more valued posters or whether their new, & it doesn't matter what I think of you. If anyone wants to check over it, I will explain to them in a PM exactly how I came by the rankings, so they can test the results to prove I ain't pulling a Bush in Florida (cue irate rant from Lyle ;)).

Anyway guys, roll em in, & at the end of the month, I will post up the Saddo Pound for Pound Top 10 that we can say represents the general view of the forum (well those who bother to vote) ;D


Top 10 (as of Autumn/Winter 2009).

1. Manny Pacquiao
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00.../934_90x90.jpg

2. Floyd Mayweather Jr
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00...3626_90x90.jpg

3. Shane Mosley
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00.../306_90x90.jpg

4. Bernard Hopkins
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00.../257_90x90.jpg

5. Juan Manuel Marquez
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00.../259_90x90.jpg

6. Miguel Cotto
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00.../265_90x90.jpg

7. Paul Williams
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00.../266_90x90.jpg

8. Chad Dawson
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00.../280_90x90.jpg

9. Ivan Calderon
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00.../267_90x90.jpg

10. Rafael Marquez
http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00.../264_90x90.jpg

I'll post mine up to start it off

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Chad Dawson
4. Shane Mosley
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Paul Williams
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Fernando Montiel
9. Timothy Bradley
10. Celestino Caballero
11. Ivan Calderon
12. Roman Gonzalez
13. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
14. Sergio Martinez
15. Hozumi Hasegawa
16. Andre Ward
17. Devon Alexander
18. Bernard Hopkins
19. Juan Manuel Lopez
20. David Haye

Just so people will have a better idea of how I will do it, each place is worth the opposite number in points. So on mine the Mayweather placing is worth 20 points, whilst the Cotto placing is worth 1 point, and the same for all those in between.

Put up a link to this thread on the main forum and I'll sticky it.

Here's how I have it.


1. Floyd Mayweather
1. Manny Pacquaio
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Paul Williams
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Chad Dawson
8. Shane Mosley
9. Celistino Cabellero
10. David Haye


Ok it's a controversial list I think but I can't really see it any other way.

First off I have the number 1 spot as contested by Floyd and Manny. There can simply be no p4p number 1 until these two guys fight hence I have them both at joint number 1, the fairest solution I think.


Then there is a HUGE drop to 3. I've gone for Hopkins because although he is old and looked poor last time out, he is at least still winning his fights and he's a proven first ballot Hall of Famer, never stopped in his career. If I drop him lower I have to put J M Marquez at 3 and I can't do that after losing a shut out to Floyd Mayweather last time out. You can argue B Hop has slipped yes, but in my opinion NOBODY pitches a shut out against him.

J M Marquez drops less than Shane for me because he was well out of his weight class and Floyd violated the contractual weight agreements.

I've got Williams above Martinez courtesy of his razor thin win. Yes it was contested, and yes some might think it went the other way, but although opinions can be subjective, official results cannot be. Williams got the win, it was in no way a robbery, just a very close fight, and hence he's at 5.

Martinez absolutely deserves to be at 6 imo though following his fantastic win over Kelly Pavlik.

Chad Dawson must be next. Wins over Adamek and two wins a apiece over Tarver and Johnson, he's beaten everyone who will actually fight him. Hopefully he can get Pascal next.

Now I've got Mosley at 8, he has to drop because he was so dominated in his preferred weight class, Floyd made it look like a mismatch imo.

Then Cabellero, in excellent form lately,thoroughly deserving a spot in the top 10.

The last spot is contentious. I don't think you can make a cast iron case for anyone, there are literally 5 or 6 guys for whom you could make a case.

I've gone for David Haye because I don't think the fact he's a heavyweight should count against him. It's a fact that ANY other fighter, had they become the undisputed champ in one weight class and moved up and won a world title at a higher weight, they WOULD be in the p4p.

I may hate him, but I'm not biased in my hate and give credit where it's due.

Finally you will notice there is no Nonito Donaire. I have Timothy Bradley, Andre Ward, Lucian Bute, Fernando Montiel, Miguel Cotto, Tomasz Adamek and Chris John all above him.

So Donaire is where is deserves to be, just in the top 20 :)

i don't see how the hell Haye could be top 10 p4p without both Klitschko's being ahead of him, both have better resumes

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

i don't see how the hell Haye could be top 10 p4p without both Klitschko's being ahead of him, both have better resumes

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Because I'm viewing his cruiserweight acomplishents as well. Name me a single other fighter who has been an undisputed world champ unifying the belts in one division, and then moved up and won a world title in the next weight class up, and who WASN'T in the p4p as a result?

What you're basically arguing is that J M Marquez shouldn't be in the p4p because his last fight was at welter and he clearly got dominated. If you think he deserves to be there you must do so on the basis of his acomplishments outside of welterweight, and hence your contradicting yourself.

If it's a p4p ranking, then Hayes acomplishments in the lower weight classes must count too.,

I'm not pleased with David Haye being on the list, but other than that I'm fine with it.

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

I'm not pleased with David Haye being on the list, but other than that I'm fine with it.

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I agree, but a three time world champ in two weight classes. Isn't it discrimination not to include him just because he's now in a weight class where he's not regarded as the best yet?

Can you name one other 3 time two division world champ on a hot winning streak who isn't in the p4p?

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Chad Dawson
6. Paul Williams
7. Shane Mosley
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Juan Manuel Lopez
10. Kermit... Cin... tron... :appl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

i don't see how the hell Haye could be top 10 p4p without both Klitschko's being ahead of him, both have better resumes

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Because I'm viewing his cruiserweight acomplishents as well. Name me a single other fighter who has been an undisputed world champ unifying the belts in one division, and then moved up and won a world title in the next weight class up, and who WASN'T in the p4p as a result?

What you're basically arguing is that J M Marquez shouldn't be in the p4p because his last fight was at welter and he clearly got dominated. If you think he deserves to be there you must do so on the basis of his acomplishments outside of welterweight, and hence your contradicting yourself.

If it's a p4p ranking, then Hayes acomplishments in the lower weight classes must count too.,

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Corey Spinks

I believe Adameks resume is better than Hayes, he may not have won the titles Haye has, but the fighters he beat were bigger challenges i think. Plus he has had to move up further in weight than Haye.

i would have mayweather as number one, i think he deserves his crown back, he fought a guy everyone wanted to see him fight ...u guys remember right...."why doesnt floyd fight a real welterweight" ...well he did, and he kicked his ass

I used to talk about Caballero when I thought he was underrated but he's not a P4P guy IMO.

Montiel should be there over him if you're gonna have a token tiny person.

1. floyd mayweather
2. manny pacquiao
3. wladimir klitschko
4. paul williams
5. chad dawson
6. andre ward
7. juan manuel marquez
8. lucian bute
9. juan manuel lopez
10. timothy bradley

best of the rest...in no particular order...
celestino caballero
sergio martinez
vic darchinyan
nonito donaire
fernando montiel
robert guerrero
humberto soto
yonnhy perez
toshiaki nishioka
omar andres narvaez
devon alexander
marcos rene maidana
andre dirrell
chris john
vitali klitschko
shane mosley
bernard hopkins

1.Mayweather
2.Pacquiao
3.Wladimir
4.Martinez
5.Ward
6.Mosley
7.Hopkins
8.Bute
9.Bradley
10.Adamek

i'd say somewhere around there

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

1.Mayweather
2.Pacquiao
3.Wladimir
4.Martinez
5.Ward
6.Mosley
7.Hopkins
8.Bute
9.Bradley
10.Adamek

i'd say somewhere around there

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If Haye doesn't make it in to the top how does Adamek?

And who has Bute beat to justify being number 8?

And where is J M Marquez? Or Paul Williams who beat your number 4 last time out?

This is a shitty list :D

B-Hop should be dropped a bit lower, he's fought two bad fights in a row. Against a shot fighter and another against a mediocre unknown fighter. I'd replace David Haye with Tomasz Adamek or Fernando Montiel, and Sergio Martinez is too high. Yes he's had some unlucky decision's. But still one win over Kelly Pavlik who's just about top 20 P4P, doesn't make him that high.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

i don't see how the hell Haye could be top 10 p4p without both Klitschko's being ahead of him, both have better resumes

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Because I'm viewing his cruiserweight acomplishents as well. Name me a single other fighter who has been an undisputed world champ unifying the belts in one division, and then moved up and won a world title in the next weight class up, and who WASN'T in the p4p as a result?

What you're basically arguing is that J M Marquez shouldn't be in the p4p because his last fight was at welter and he clearly got dominated. If you think he deserves to be there you must do so on the basis of his acomplishments outside of welterweight, and hence your contradicting yourself.

If it's a p4p ranking, then Hayes acomplishments in the lower weight classes must count too.,

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Corey Spinks

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No he didn't he was undisputed welterweight champ for a couple fights but was then knocked out by Zab Judah before moving up.

Had he beaten Zab both times and then moved up and won another title you can guarantee he would have been in the p4p top 10.

Actually I can't remember that far back, but I'm pretty sure he was there when he beat Zab first time anway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

1.Mayweather
2.Pacquiao
3.Wladimir
4.Martinez
5.Ward
6.Mosley
7.Hopkins
8.Bute
9.Bradley
10.Adamek

i'd say somewhere around there

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If Haye doesn't make it in to the top how does Adamek?

And who has Bute beat to justify being number 8?

And where is J M Marquez? Or Paul Williams who beat your number 4 last time out?

This is a shitty list :D

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Bute has wins over Andrade, Bika, Miranda just to name a few

Adamek has been a champion in 2 weight classes just like Haye, yet he already has a better resume than Haye at HW, Adamek's 3rd weight class

JMM is fighting Juan Diaz again, Malignaggi just took Diaz to school, if i was to take anyone out to put Marquez back in it would be Hopkins who looked done in his last fight

Williams just barely beat Martinez, and Martinez went on to become the lineal Middleweight champion of the world in his very next fight

i totally forgot about tomasz adamek. he's got to be included there in the mix.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

1.Mayweather
2.Pacquiao
3.Wladimir
4.Martinez
5.Ward
6.Mosley
7.Hopkins
8.Bute
9.Bradley
10.Adamek

i'd say somewhere around there

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If Haye doesn't make it in to the top how does Adamek?

And who has Bute beat to justify being number 8?

And where is J M Marquez? Or Paul Williams who beat your number 4 last time out?

This is a shitty list :D

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Bute has wins over Andrade, Bika, Miranda just to name a few

Adamek has been a champion in 2 weight classes just like Haye, yet he already has a better resume than Haye at HW, Adamek's 3rd weight class

JMM is fighting Juan Diaz again, Malignaggi just took Diaz to school, if i was to take anyone out to put Marquez back in it would be Hopkins who looked done in his last fight

Williams just barely beat Martinez, and Martinez went on to become the lineal Middleweight champion of the world in his very next fight

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How does Adamek have a better resume than Haye at heavyweight? Haye beat Valuev who to my understanding was rated number 3 in the world, Arreola has never held a belt and lost every round in his world title challenge before being stopped.

And Haye beat THE man at cruiserweight so his resume is better there too.

Adamek also lost a lopsided decision to Chad Dawson only a couple of years ago.

Marquez is still p4p, many thought he beat Pacquaio only a couple years ago and since then knocked out Casamayor and Juan Diaz. Floyd was well over his natural weight limit.

Williams has to be higher than Martinez considering he beat him.

I calculate my P4P lists differently based more on talent then accomplishments. Of course accomplishments are factored in but honestly these are who I believe the 10 best fighters in boxing are who are at least champions. Guys with more accomplishments (Marquez, Bradley) though are given the benefit of a higher position.

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Timothy Bradley
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Paul Williams
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Andre Ward
8. Juanma Lopez
9. Wladimir Klitschko
10. Chad Dawson
11. Nonito Donaire
12. Lucian Bute
13. Fernando Montiel
14. Chris John
15. Celistino Caballero
16. Yohnny Perez
17. Shane Mosley
18. Poonsawat Kraetingdaenggym (the best fighter from Thailand in the last 10 years imo even though I haven't seen his last fight)
19. Arthur Abraham (I have him ahead of Dirrell because I think he beats more fighters then Dirrell)
20. Miguel Cotto

You could pretty much arrange 4-20 however way you want to imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amat

I calculate my P4P lists differently based more on talent then accomplishments. Of course accomplishments are factored in but honestly these are who I believe the 10 best fighters in boxing are who are at least champions. Guys with more accomplishments (Marquez, Bradley) though are given the benefit of a higher position.

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Timothy Bradley
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Paul Williams
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Andre Ward
8. Juanma Lopez
9. Wladimir Klitschko
10. Chad Dawson
11. Nonito Donaire
12. Lucian Bute
13. Fernando Montiel
14. Chris John
15. Celistino Caballero
16. Yohnny Perez
17. Shane Mosley
18. Poonsawat Kraetingdaenggym (the best fighter from Thailand in the last 10 years imo even though I haven't seen his last fight)
19. Arthur Abraham (I have him ahead of Dirrell because I think he beats more fighters then Dirrell)
20. Miguel Cotto

You could pretty much arrange 4-20 however way you want to imo.

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I like this list but you are damn big on Bradley. I'm not confident he will even be champ at 140 past 2010 to be honest.

I think Devon Alexander gives him fits. He'd not compete at welter either imo.

I think you're overating him a lot. Even Amir beats him imo.

No way. I'd say Bradley behind Pacquiao is the most rapidly improving boxer in boxing. You look at him versus Peterson and him versus Witter and it's two completely different fighters. He's the ultimate volume punching guy these days and he would absolutely drown Amir Khan. Khan doesn't have any seasoning, Bradley's whole style is to expose that.

I've been as high on Alexander as anyone but Bradley is a tall task I hope that fight happens.

What's sad is Valero would have been high on my list and I also thought of him as one of the most improving fighters, probably right behind Bradley.

It is very weak the top 10 right now if you ask me but here is my attempt.

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Chad Dawson
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Paul Williams
7. Wlad Klit
8. Shane Mosley
9. Sergio Martinez
10. Timothy Bradley

1) Manny Pacquiao
2) Floyd Mayweather
3) David Haye
4) Wlad Klitscho
5) Berto
6) Dawson
7) Mosley
8) Paul Williams
9) Marquez
10) Bradley
11) Cotto


I'm getting a bit of a mental block and keep changing my mind, so I'll come back and finish the top 20 before the deadline. If Khan knocks out Paulie in style, I think he will get in my top 10.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0james0

1) Manny Pacquiao
2) Floyd Mayweather
3) David Haye
4) Wlad Klitscho
5) Berto
6) Dawson
7) Mosley
8) Paul Williams
9) Marquez
10) Bradley
11) Cotto


I'm getting a bit of a mental block and keep changing my mind, so I'll come back and finish the top 20 before the deadline. If Khan knocks out Paulie in style, I think he will get in my top 10.

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Question: How can you put Haye infront of K when he hasn't prove much yet in the HW division?:confused:

1. Floyd Mayweather
1. Manny Pacquaio
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. J M Marquez
5. Paul Williams
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Chad Dawson
8. Shane Mosley
9. Celestino Cabellero
10.David Haye.

That is the official list, anything is just wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nameless

Question: How can you put Haye infront of K when he hasn't prove much yet in the HW division?:confused:

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Good question, one I pondered myself before putting them in.

The answer: Because I based it on who I think is better right now, K is proven, but I think if/ when the two meet Haye will win, so I simply can't put K before Haye if I think he is not as good.

I genuinely rate Haye (without fanboyism) and think at any weight he would have done well.

I thought I would have got more stick for Berto at 5th, or even the fact that Williams managed to wangle some shades from his 8th place ;)

1) Floyd Mayweather
2) Manny Pacquiao
3)Shane Mosley
4)Juan Manuel Marquez
5)Bernard Hopkins
6)Vic Darchinyan
7)Miguel Cotto
8)Sergio Martinez
9)Paul Williams
10) Arthur Abraham

I struglled with my top 10, now I'm glad I'm not alone.

3-10 is tough, 10-20 is near impossible to seperate.

I go for current skills though over past accomplishments. The past doesn't mean much, it's all about who would beat who based on skills, style and ability if weight was equal.

IMO Haye would beat most as he can bang and he can move.

The Klitches are hard to fathom, not only because they have fought poor fighters, but because they haven't had the fighters to fight.

I'm gonna ask one of the MODs to merge this into the Pound For Pound votes thread, seeing as there's a few here & no point people doing it again, if that's cool with you Bilbo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

1.Mayweather
2.Pacquiao
3.Wladimir
4.Martinez
5.Ward
6.Mosley
7.Hopkins
8.Bute
9.Bradley
10.Adamek

i'd say somewhere around there

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Shocking list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

1) Floyd Mayweather
2) Manny Pacquiao
3)Shane Mosley
4)Juan Manuel Marquez
5)Bernard Hopkins
6)Vic Darchinyan
7)Miguel Cotto
8)Sergio Martinez
9)Paul Williams
10) Arthur Abraham

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You can't be serious? He was getting his arse handed to him by Andre Dirrell. Also Vic? HOW!!! ;D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skel1983

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

1.Mayweather
2.Pacquiao
3.Wladimir
4.Martinez
5.Ward
6.Mosley
7.Hopkins
8.Bute
9.Bradley
10.Adamek

i'd say somewhere around there

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Shocking list.

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hey i whipped it up in like a minute, give me a break lol

One shitty performance after three monumental ones and Vasquez is out of the top 20??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

One shitty performance after three monumental ones and Vasquez is out of the top 20??

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It's ironic really, since Nonito Doinare beat Vic Darchinyan in 2007 he has fought a string of nobodies and yet has climbed up to number 5 in the Ring rankings.

In the same time period Vasquez, who was already rated in the top 5 has gone 3-0 including two wins over Raphael Marquez who was also in the p4p rankings and yet he's now been dumped out of the top 20 altogether. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

One shitty performance after three monumental ones and Vasquez is out of the top 20??

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It's ironic really, since Nonito Doinare beat Vic Darchinyan in 2007 he has fought a string of nobodies and yet has climbed up to number 5 in the Ring rankings.

In the same time period Vasquez, who was already rated in the top 5 has gone 3-0 including two wins over Raphael Marquez who was also in the p4p rankings and yet he's now been dumped out of the top 20 altogether. :rolleyes:

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EXACTLY. And if anyone deserves a little down time, it is Vasquez after three FUCKING EPIC matches. You all need to put him back in the top 20. He has left more in the ring that David Haye will ever put in it.

1. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Chad Dawson
4. Paul Williams
5. Sergio Martinez
6. Tim Bradley
7. Celestino Caballero
8. Ivan Calderon
9. Fernando Montiel
10. Wlad Klitchko
11. Shane Mosley
12. Bernard Hopkins
13. Nonito Donaire
14. Andre Ward
15. Juan Manuel Marquez
16. Chris John
17. Lucien Bute
18. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
19. Vitali Klitchko
20. Miguel Cotto

Others I could just as easily have switched in to the bottom slots -- Israel Vasquez, Rafael Marquez, Devon Alexander, Juan Manuel Lopez (though I think I pick Gamboa to beat him and Caballero -- but Gamboa's not quite proven enough for me to put him in), Vic Darchinian, Abner Mares, and probably some other little guys whom I'm just not familiar with.