Few Things About Last Night.
Right firstly i want to discuss Antonio Margarito, there's no doubt in mind. Antonio Margarito had hardened wraps in quite a few of his fights, last night he showed no real power at all. And come nowhere close to stopping his opponent, nor could he bust him up. Despite hitting him with every punch in the book.
The positives are that Antonio Margarito's defense, had tightened up. And his handspeed looked a shade quicker. But now he's power has been exposed, i don't think he will be anywhere near as effective.
As for Kermit Cintron now im going to be a very small percentage here, but i think Kermit Cintron would of won. And before the fight i thought he had a good shot aswell.
He was outboxing Paul Williams in the first 3 rounds, and when Paul Williams tried to up the pace in the 4th round. Kermit Cintron greeted him with some nice solid hard counters.
Paul Williams wouldn't of been able to just walk him down, as i've said in other threads there is a reason he was more hesistant than usual. And thats because he's never been in with a puncher.
Well maybe except for Walter Dario Matthysse, but i think Kermit Cintron hits harder than him. Plus he never really had the skills to test his chin, like Kermit Cintron would of done.
Im still not sold on Paul Williams chin, he's been stunned by non punches like Martinez, Mitchell. So who knows how his chin would of held up.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
somewhat surprisingly i agree with you ice lol.
i think williams has now gone WAY down in my estimate on a sepatrate note. IMO if it takes him over 4 rounds to figure out cintron, a relatively straight foreward guy he wouldnt get to mayweather in 200 rounds let alone 12.
didnt see margarito fight but if what you say is true i feel sorry for cintron as his career has been defined by those two loses and also
cotto! how tough must he of been if margarito did have wraps and he certainly hasnt been the same ever since.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
somewhat surprisingly i agree with you ice lol.
i think williams has now gone WAY down in my estimate on a sepatrate note. IMO if it takes him over 4 rounds to figure out cintron, a relatively straight foreward guy he wouldnt get to mayweather in 200 rounds let alone 12.
didnt see margarito fight but if what you say is true i feel sorry for cintron as his career has been defined by those two loses and also
cotto! how tough must he of been if margarito did have wraps and he certainly hasnt been the same ever since.
if anything it helps back up the claims that Cintron made that he believed that Margarito used the wraps against him
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Right firstly i want to discuss Antonio Margarito, there's no doubt in mind. Antonio Margarito had hardened wraps in quite a few of his fights, last night he showed no real power at all. And come nowhere close to stopping his opponent, nor could he bust him up. Despite hitting him with every punch in the book.
The positives are that Antonio Margarito's defense, had tightened up. And his handspeed looked a shade quicker. But now he's power has been exposed, i don't think he will be anywhere near as effective.
As for Kermit Cintron now im going to be a very small percentage here, but i think Kermit Cintron would of won. And before the fight i thought he had a good shot aswell.
He was outboxing Paul Williams in the first 3 rounds, and when Paul Williams tried to up the pace in the 4th round. Kermit Cintron greeted him with some nice solid hard counters.
Paul Williams wouldn't of been able to just walk him down, as i've said in other threads there is a reason he was more hesistant than usual. And thats because he's never been in with a puncher.
Well maybe except for Walter Dario Matthysse, but i think Kermit Cintron hits harder than him. Plus he never really had the skills to test his chin, like Kermit Cintron would of done.
Im still not sold on Paul Williams chin, he's been stunned by non punches like Martinez, Mitchell. So who knows how his chin would of held up.
I think Williams seemed to be getting hit clean with the counter right from Cintron and was definately buzzed once. Williams qent down heavy against Martinez so Cintron for sure could have shocked him last night.
On a side note with the Margo thing, not seen the fight yet, but, if you think he's been using the wraps for a while, maybe Cintron, Cotto, i'd have to suggest Lujan just cause of the ear man, but how the hell has he been getting away with it and it not been spotted by anyone atall till Shane. I don't understand, I thought someone checks the hand wrapping before every fight and the wraps are checked after the fight too? Fill me in here......
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
somewhat surprisingly i agree with you ice lol.
i think williams has now gone WAY down in my estimate on a sepatrate note. IMO if it takes him over 4 rounds to figure out cintron, a relatively straight foreward guy he wouldnt get to mayweather in 200 rounds let alone 12.
didnt see margarito fight but if what you say is true i feel sorry for cintron as his career has been defined by those two loses and also
cotto! how tough must he of been if margarito did have wraps and he certainly hasnt been the same ever since.
if anything it helps back up the claims that Cintron made that he believed that Margarito used the wraps against him
Wow. That is surprising. :rolleyes:
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Right firstly i want to discuss Antonio Margarito, there's no doubt in mind. Antonio Margarito had hardened wraps in quite a few of his fights, last night he showed no real power at all. And come nowhere close to stopping his opponent, nor could he bust him up. Despite hitting him with every punch in the book.
The positives are that Antonio Margarito's defense, had tightened up. And his handspeed looked a shade quicker. But now he's power has been exposed, i don't think he will be anywhere near as effective.
As for Kermit Cintron now im going to be a very small percentage here, but i think Kermit Cintron would of won. And before the fight i thought he had a good shot aswell.
He was outboxing Paul Williams in the first 3 rounds, and when Paul Williams tried to up the pace in the 4th round. Kermit Cintron greeted him with some nice solid hard counters.
Paul Williams wouldn't of been able to just walk him down, as i've said in other threads there is a reason he was more hesistant than usual. And thats because he's never been in with a puncher.
Well maybe except for Walter Dario Matthysse, but i think Kermit Cintron hits harder than him. Plus he never really had the skills to test his chin, like Kermit Cintron would of done.
Im still not sold on Paul Williams chin, he's been stunned by non punches like Martinez, Mitchell. So who knows how his chin would of held up.
I am with you. I though Cintron was winning at the time of the stopage and would have won if the fight went on. However, if anyone deserves a loss it is Cintron who may or may not have been looking for the easy payday.
YOu better believe if someone like Miquel Cotto went through those ropes, he would have been back in that ring within seconds.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boozeboxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
somewhat surprisingly i agree with you ice lol.
i think williams has now gone WAY down in my estimate on a sepatrate note. IMO if it takes him over 4 rounds to figure out cintron, a relatively straight foreward guy he wouldnt get to mayweather in 200 rounds let alone 12.
didnt see margarito fight but if what you say is true i feel sorry for cintron as his career has been defined by those two loses and also
cotto! how tough must he of been if margarito did have wraps and he certainly hasnt been the same ever since.
if anything it helps back up the claims that Cintron made that he believed that Margarito used the wraps against him
Wow. That is surprising. :rolleyes:
yea cause it's a well known fact that i'm a Cintron supporter and just enjoy dissing him on the side :rolleyes:
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
The first 3 1/2 rounds were close imo.
Williams boxed early then turned it up in the 4th.
After seeing what Williams was able to do in the 4th, i feel Williams would of pressured and punched until Cintron was stopped. Cintron would land some big shots throughout but Williams toughness would of got him through it.
If the rematch happens, Williams stops Cintron in 9.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
[quote=TheMacMagician;875549]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
On a side note with the Margo thing, not seen the fight yet, but, if you think he's been using the wraps for a while, maybe Cintron, Cotto, i'd have to suggest Lujan just cause of the ear man, but how the hell has he been getting away with it and it not been spotted by anyone atall till Shane. I don't understand, I thought someone checks the hand wrapping before every fight and the wraps are checked after the fight too? Fill me in here......
Look what happened after bernard exposed tito trinidad's illegal handwraps before their fight in 2001. tito fought 5 more fights, losing 3 of them, and the wins that he did get were against very sub par opposition. who knows how fighters get away with that kind of cheating for so long(the kind with physical evidence)... but hey, last night we witnessed an apparent rule change in the ring after the fight. that changed forced a decision on a fight that any reasonable person would rule a no contest. so... cheating can happen in so many different ways. its just sad.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Right firstly i want to discuss Antonio Margarito, there's no doubt in mind. Antonio Margarito had hardened wraps in quite a few of his fights, last night he showed no real power at all. And come nowhere close to stopping his opponent, nor could he bust him up. Despite hitting him with every punch in the book.
The positives are that Antonio Margarito's defense, had tightened up. And his handspeed looked a shade quicker. But now he's power has been exposed, i don't think he will be anywhere near as effective.
As for Kermit Cintron now im going to be a very small percentage here, but i think Kermit Cintron would of won. And before the fight i thought he had a good shot aswell.
He was outboxing Paul Williams in the first 3 rounds, and when Paul Williams tried to up the pace in the 4th round. Kermit Cintron greeted him with some nice solid hard counters.
Paul Williams wouldn't of been able to just walk him down, as i've said in other threads there is a reason he was more hesistant than usual. And thats because he's never been in with a puncher.
Well maybe except for Walter Dario Matthysse, but i think Kermit Cintron hits harder than him. Plus he never really had the skills to test his chin, like Kermit Cintron would of done.
Im still not sold on Paul Williams chin, he's been stunned by non punches like Martinez, Mitchell. So who knows how his chin would of held up.
I have to say that I agree with you on all counts.
Golden Johnson was destroyed in one round by Antonio Margarito, now this guy Garcia goes 10 rounds ?
And Williams does have a weak to average at best chin IMO.
I was thinkin about that before the fight, and I think that is why he was so hesitant in the fight.
Cintron was looking real good in there, won all the rounds and looked on track to win a decision. Or maybe even hurt Williams and stop him.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
[quote=ruthless rocco;875663]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheMacMagician
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
On a side note with the Margo thing, not seen the fight yet, but, if you think he's been using the wraps for a while, maybe Cintron, Cotto, i'd have to suggest Lujan just cause of the ear man, but how the hell has he been getting away with it and it not been spotted by anyone atall till Shane. I don't understand, I thought someone checks the hand wrapping before every fight and the wraps are checked after the fight too? Fill me in here......
Look what happened after bernard exposed tito trinidad's illegal handwraps before their fight in 2001. tito fought 5 more fights, losing 3 of them, and the wins that he did get were against very sub par opposition. who knows how fighters get away with that kind of cheating for so long(the kind with physical evidence)... but hey, last night we witnessed an apparent rule change in the ring after the fight. that changed forced a decision on a fight that any reasonable person would rule a no contest. so... cheating can happen in so many different ways. its just sad.
it's already been covered that it wasn't illegal wrapping like Margarito, it was just a different method of wrapping which basically put more padding on the knuckles, it was legal in Nevada and not legal in New York, that was the whole drama, and after the Hopkins loss Trinidad was the first guy to blow out Mayorga (albeit at Middleweight) and only lost to Wright and Jones
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheMacMagician
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Right firstly i want to discuss Antonio Margarito, there's no doubt in mind. Antonio Margarito had hardened wraps in quite a few of his fights, last night he showed no real power at all. And come nowhere close to stopping his opponent, nor could he bust him up. Despite hitting him with every punch in the book.
The positives are that Antonio Margarito's defense, had tightened up. And his handspeed looked a shade quicker. But now he's power has been exposed, i don't think he will be anywhere near as effective.
As for Kermit Cintron now im going to be a very small percentage here, but i think Kermit Cintron would of won. And before the fight i thought he had a good shot aswell.
He was outboxing Paul Williams in the first 3 rounds, and when Paul Williams tried to up the pace in the 4th round. Kermit Cintron greeted him with some nice solid hard counters.
Paul Williams wouldn't of been able to just walk him down, as i've said in other threads there is a reason he was more hesistant than usual. And thats because he's never been in with a puncher.
Well maybe except for Walter Dario Matthysse, but i think Kermit Cintron hits harder than him. Plus he never really had the skills to test his chin, like Kermit Cintron would of done.
Im still not sold on Paul Williams chin, he's been stunned by non punches like Martinez, Mitchell. So who knows how his chin would of held up.
I think Williams seemed to be getting hit clean with the counter right from Cintron and was definately buzzed once. Williams qent down heavy against Martinez so Cintron for sure could have shocked him last night.
On a side note with the Margo thing, not seen the fight yet, but, if you think he's been using the wraps for a while, maybe Cintron, Cotto, i'd have to suggest Lujan just cause of the ear man, but how the hell has he been getting away with it and it not been spotted by anyone atall till Shane. I don't understand, I thought someone checks the hand wrapping before every fight and the wraps are checked after the fight too? Fill me in here......
IM not sure how Antonio 'Drywall' Margacetto did it:
but when you think about casting plaster if you had damp white colored wraps then just dusted the white powder over the wraps each side of them so it stuck there; you could carry the wraps in and none of the powder would fall off then it would only build up layer by layer and would be hard to detect until some squeezed out as paste. If you had talc powder in a can it would be a good trick to put your mind off the ruse too.
If you got away with doing that, by the time all the kerfuffle in the ring walk and talk and the song was over it would be set hard.
In the old days in street fighting just a roll of small coins in your palm would put more weight into your punch.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
I just saw the fight and it is very weird, I agree about bringing Cintron to the hospital just to make sure but it is silly to have made Williams the winner of such fight.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Right firstly i want to discuss Antonio Margarito, there's no doubt in mind. Antonio Margarito had hardened wraps in quite a few of his fights, last night he showed no real power at all. And come nowhere close to stopping his opponent, nor could he bust him up. Despite hitting him with every punch in the book.
The positives are that Antonio Margarito's defense, had tightened up. And his handspeed looked a shade quicker. But now he's power has been exposed, i don't think he will be anywhere near as effective.
As for Kermit Cintron now im going to be a very small percentage here, but i think Kermit Cintron would of won. And before the fight i thought he had a good shot aswell.
He was outboxing Paul Williams in the first 3 rounds, and when Paul Williams tried to up the pace in the 4th round. Kermit Cintron greeted him with some nice solid hard counters.
Paul Williams wouldn't of been able to just walk him down, as i've said in other threads there is a reason he was more hesistant than usual. And thats because he's never been in with a puncher.
Well maybe except for Walter Dario Matthysse, but i think Kermit Cintron hits harder than him. Plus he never really had the skills to test his chin, like Kermit Cintron would of done.
Im still not sold on Paul Williams chin, he's been stunned by non punches like Martinez, Mitchell. So who knows how his chin would of held up.
Williams is a notoriously slow lately. Times when Williams has lost early rounds he's turned it on late from the midround on. The only time I can remember him starting real fast lately was against margarito and the quintana rematch but in his last performances like against Martinez he started slow and came on late. There is no saying that he was about to start coming on against Cintron he was starting to turn it up in that 4th.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
I hope cintron & williams rematch. I think they match up well against each other.
I was a big margo fan until the hand wraps. Now I feel he should never be allowed to fight in the US or any other big market again. He actually shouldn't be allowed to fight again, period, but that won't happen.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheMacMagician
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Right firstly i want to discuss Antonio Margarito, there's no doubt in mind. Antonio Margarito had hardened wraps in quite a few of his fights, last night he showed no real power at all. And come nowhere close to stopping his opponent, nor could he bust him up. Despite hitting him with every punch in the book.
The positives are that Antonio Margarito's defense, had tightened up. And his handspeed looked a shade quicker. But now he's power has been exposed, i don't think he will be anywhere near as effective.
As for Kermit Cintron now im going to be a very small percentage here, but i think Kermit Cintron would of won. And before the fight i thought he had a good shot aswell.
He was outboxing Paul Williams in the first 3 rounds, and when Paul Williams tried to up the pace in the 4th round. Kermit Cintron greeted him with some nice solid hard counters.
Paul Williams wouldn't of been able to just walk him down, as i've said in other threads there is a reason he was more hesistant than usual. And thats because he's never been in with a puncher.
Well maybe except for Walter Dario Matthysse, but i think Kermit Cintron hits harder than him. Plus he never really had the skills to test his chin, like Kermit Cintron would of done.
Im still not sold on Paul Williams chin, he's been stunned by non punches like Martinez, Mitchell. So who knows how his chin would of held up.
I think Williams seemed to be getting hit clean with the counter right from Cintron and was definately buzzed once. Williams qent down heavy against Martinez so Cintron for sure could have shocked him last night.
On a side note with the Margo thing, not seen the fight yet, but, if you think he's been using the wraps for a while, maybe Cintron, Cotto, i'd have to suggest Lujan just cause of the ear man, but how the hell has he been getting away with it and it not been spotted by anyone atall till Shane. I don't understand, I thought someone checks the hand wrapping before every fight and the wraps are checked after the fight too? Fill me in here......
IM not sure how Antonio 'Drywall' Margacetto did it:
but when you think about casting plaster if you had damp white colored wraps then just dusted the white powder over the wraps each side of them so it stuck there; you could carry the wraps in and none of the powder would fall off then it would only build up layer by layer and would be hard to detect until some squeezed out as paste. If you had talc powder in a can it would be a good trick to put your mind off the ruse too.
If you got away with doing that, by the time all the kerfuffle in the ring walk and talk and the song was over it would be set hard.
In the old days in street fighting just a roll of small coins in your palm would put more weight into your punch.
Man, I get what your sayin, I just find it a bit hard to believe that whoever checks the hand wraps could be so poor at their job to not spot anything wrong for so long, it just doesn't add up atall......
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
The first 3 1/2 rounds were close imo.
Williams boxed early then turned it up in the 4th.
After seeing what Williams was able to do in the 4th, i feel Williams would of pressured and punched until Cintron was stopped. Cintron would land some big shots throughout but Williams toughness would of got him through it.
If the rematch happens, Williams stops Cintron in 9.
Totally agree with that.
Williams would have stepped it up and started throwing 80-90 punches per round and though Cintron would have countered, he would have been getting hit a lot more. He wouldn't have stopped Williams and wouldn't have kept up with the output.
I agree with Ice that Margarito has no power and this confirms in my mind that he has been using the wraps in previous fights. He didn't go from being an average puncher to being one who can bust up the worlds best just like that.
Re: Few Things About Last Night.
There is no way you can take any judgements away from that fight, fights go 12 rounds for a reason and off 4 rounds we know Williams can deal with adversity at the top level, we don't know that with Cintron. Neither guy had established any sort of rhythm yet and it was in it's infant stages still.
