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How do you think Floyd would do against the prime of the 80s boxing?
I think he might outbox Duran but could not imagin Mayweather beating Leonard or Hearns.
Before sombody says it yes I know Mayweather was arguably a better fighter at the lighter weights.
I think he holds his own but I think he loses to all those guys....just my opinion of course but:
Duran: Robert had solid defense on the inside, could roughhouse better than Floyd and get away with fouls like no other....all around solid boxer. The prefight hype for this fight would have been worth the price of admission because Duran knew how to psychologically break down a fighter just like Floyd does....I see this one being the closest match
Leonard: Ray is like Shane or Oscar but hella faster putting his punches together. He could box, he could brawl and he could shine the shoes on ANYONE.
Hearns: Let's pretend that when Floyd got rocked vs Zab, Shane, or Corley that Tommy 'The Hitman' Hearns was doing the punching....there would have been 0 need for any follow up.
floyd over them all...
Actually not a bad analysis. Duran's best weight was lightweight. When he went up in weight, he lost some of his speed, and his power wasn't as effective as against the smaller guys. SRL and Hearns were natural welters. Floyd would lose handily to them both. Floyd against Duran at any lighter weight would be a different story, though. Duran's aggresiveness and power would overwhelm Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
I was struck by the sheer professionalism of PBF's reaction to Mosley rocking him. Textbook perfect: holds on the buy time, hands go up, then he stays close in order to prevent Mosely from gettng the space necessary to throw a power punch. By the end of the round he's actually stalking Mosely. That is some major boxing intellegence, so I'm not confident in a Hearns KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice
Still, its hard to bet agasint Hearns. He was a freak with that height and weight advantage....arguably the hardest hitting welter ever. On top of that he could box, and managed to do so successfully for many round against SRL. He could win at welter via the jab alone, which was really a punch...managing to rock even the iron jawed SRL.
But his one flaw was a weak chin, and that was the only discernable way of beating him. Forget outboxing him (if SRL couldnt do it...), PBF wouyld have to stalk and catch him. Hearns will then backpeddle and box. It seems unlikely that PBF would be able to put together the combos SRL needed to overwhelm the Hitman, especially considering hearns will be throwing those power jab the whiole time.
PBF's offensive style is a very unusual super-accurate-one-punch-at-a-time methodology. I don't think thats enough to get to hearns chin, if he has to get past the jab and backpeddling first.
Agreed. The only one on that list who could touch Floyd is Duran and as stated that would only happen at lightweight. Floyd outpoints all three at 147.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Beats Duran at welter. Not Durans best weight and Floyd knows how to deal with pressure fighters.
Loses badly to Hearns, just cant see any possible way he could outbox him and he sure aint knocking him out.
Close loss to SRL, I think people underestimate just how great Suger Ray was. All the skills of Mayweather but could switch style if he wanted and his combinations were awesome.
Not sure how anyone thinks Floyd could beat them all though. I mean c'mon thats just ridiculous. Floyds a great great fighter but he sure as hell couldnt whitewash the Fabulous Four (if we include Hagler who i know wasnt a welter). Those 4 are top 10 of all time IMO.
thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.
What's ridiculous is this notion that some people feel the 4 greats of the 80s just automatically beat every other fighter from every other era. The main thing they did to cement their own legacies was beat up on each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-hit Wonder
first off jjm, i enjoy reading ur posts, for me ur easily one of the best posters on here, always class mate, but really mayweather over them all, dont get me wrong i love mayweather, and after the mosley performance i respected him so much more, hes one of the greatest in history, a true credit to the game. just curious as to ur post saying mayweather beats them all at welter, i strongly disagree, i think out of all 3 tommy h would of been the most hardest fights due to hitmans physical advantages, also sugar ray i just cant see mayweather beating him up at welter, and as for duran hes my favourite ever so i have to say duran out fights mayweather to a ud. i no anything is possible, and mayweather could beat these fighters, but going off what i no and what i have seen and believe, l think mayweather loses all 3. i strongly reiterate tho, that anything is possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
I think Hearns gives him the most trouble. The height, power and speed of Hearns gives him the best chance. I think PBF can work out Duran and Leonard better than he could Hearns. No doubt PBF is up there now with these 3 great fighters. Duran at Lightweight would have been an incredible fight.
This doesn't work. Duran was a legend at lightweight b/f meeting any of the other fab4. Perhaps he cemeted his legacy by becoming the only person to ever defeat SRL at welter, but then he no-massed and lost to every one else.Quote:
Originally Posted by match
Hagler, like Duran at lightweifgt, made his rep well b/f destroying Hearns in his signature fight. But he was an all-time great even before that, though denied the recogntion at the time.
Tommy Hearns, while not great yet, was considered freakshily powerful before meeting SRL. He knoocked out everyone, and often in brutal fashion. He rep was like tyson's b/f his first title fight. If you go back and read the press at the time, most of the smart money was on the hitman prior to the first fight with leoanrd. indeed, he out-jabbed him, outboxed him, and obviously threw harder punches. then SLR discovered his chin. Hearns rep with the public went up after the fight, as he displayed sick skills, but the revelation of his weakness erased his unbeatable rep.
SRL was the golden boy b/f meeting duran. but he proabaly needed the rest of the fab4 more than anyone else. take away duran, hearns and hagler, and he doesn't have much of a legacy.
But that was what was so special about the era. they all fought each other. Now we've had PBF(SRL-flashy boxer), PACman(Duran like size and offensive intensity with excellent defense), Willams(Hearns-b/c of the height and reach), and Mosely(Hagler-great power and a tad underappreciated) for the last few years and only PBF-Mosley have fought. WTF!
Read what I wrote before spewing off nonsense, I didn't say the ONLY thing they did was beat each other, I said THE MAIN thing they did was beat each other. When you look at their careers the FIRST thing anyone looks at is how they fared against the other three.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManjuThis doesn't work. Duran was a legend at lightweight b/f meeting any of the other fab4. Perhaps he cemeted his legacy by becoming the only person to ever defeat SRL at welter, but then he no-massed and lost to every one else.Quote:
Originally Posted by match
Hagler, like Duran at lightweifgt, made his rep well b/f destroying Hearns in his signature fight. But he was an all-time great even before that, though denied the recogntion at the time.
Tommy Hearns, while not great yet, was considered freakshily powerful before meeting SRL. He knoocked out everyone, and often in brutal fashion. He rep was like tyson's b/f his first title fight. If you go back and read the press at the time, most of the smart money was on the hitman prior to the first fight with leoanrd. indeed, he out-jabbed him, outboxed him, and obviously threw harder punches. then SLR discovered his chin. Hearns rep with the public went up after the fight, as he displayed sick skills, but the revelation of his weakness erased his unbeatable rep.
SRL was the golden boy b/f meeting duran. but he proabaly needed the rest of the fab4 more than anyone else. take away duran, hearns and hagler, and he doesn't have much of a legacy.
But that was what was so special about the era. they all fought each other. Now we've had PBF(SRL-flashy boxer), PACman(Duran like size and offensive intensity with excellent defense), Willams(Hearns-b/c of the height and reach), and Mosely(Hagler-great power and a tad underappreciated) for the last few years and only PBF-Mosley have fought. WTF!
When I said that, i didnt mean that he'd blow them out, I just believe given what's been seen of them vs Floyd I think floyd beats them all with hearns being the toughest.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448first off jjm, i enjoy reading ur posts, for me ur easily one of the best posters on here, always class mate, but really mayweather over them all, dont get me wrong i love mayweather, and after the mosley performance i respected him so much more, hes one of the greatest in history, a true credit to the game. just curious as to ur post saying mayweather beats them all at welter, i strongly disagree, i think out of all 3 tommy h would of been the most hardest fights due to hitmans physical advantages, also sugar ray i just cant see mayweather beating him up at welter, and as for duran hes my favourite ever so i have to say duran out fights mayweather to a ud. i no anything is possible, and mayweather could beat these fighters, but going off what i no and what i have seen and believe, l think mayweather loses all 3. i strongly reiterate tho, that anything is possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
well duran would be pot shot to death and he'd become frustrated.
SRL..I dont care what anyone says, floyd SR took the fight on two weeks notice and had a bullet in his leg. He was giving Ray a very hard fight and Senior isn't anywhere near as good as floyd using the same style , I think floyd would beat him.
Hearns reach and power in that right would be the test of if he could land it.
The 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.
Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would
i personally think as great a fighter as Mayweather is , i can see no way he could either outbox or out fight Tommy Hearns , i think he outpoints Duran , and its a pick em between him and Leonard .
But im sorry i just think he gets not only a boxing lesson from Hearns but he has never been anywere near any fighter who even comes close to Hearns's power .
I dont even think it would be competitive , Hearns by brutal KO , to big to powerful and to be fair i think he even outboxes Mayweather.
He beats Duran at either 135 or 147 for me. I think it would be more competitive at 135, but at 147, I think it would be relatively comfortable (116-112.117-111).
The Leonard fight is a pick-em, but over 12 rounds I'd fancy Floyd to do it, like VD said, when Benitez made him miss, he didn't make him pay, but Floyd does. I think a Mayweather decision.
I just don't see him beating Hearns, not to say he couldn't, but Hearns is more wrong for him than any other fighter in history. Long, stiff jab, a better chin than many on here give him credit for and nice body-punching. Maybe Floyd could figure it out, but I don't see it. I don't think Hearns would stop him, I think Floyd is too clever for that, but it would be a close, clear decision for the Hitman.
At lightweight Floyd had MAJOR issues with Jose Luis Castillo in their first fight...if Duran fought Floyd on that night it would have been BRUTAL for Floyd and yes he would have been stopped by Duran.
Ray Leonard could box and he could brawl he had COMBINATION speed and not just quick 1-2 punch speed, he could put together 4-5 punch combinations that you could barely see. Ray had solid yet underrated power and a great chin.
Tommy Hearns was just a BEAST....solid jab, HUGE power in both hands and the best part was his ability to get his bonecrushing power delivered to the point of impact via the straight right cross that was lightning quick...he didn't throw wildly or have to work his way inside to land...he landed from distance and Floyd has NEVER EVER EVER EVER fought a guy like Hearns and everyday he has a fight vs someone not like Hearns he should fall down on his knees and praise God.
The guys I personally would like to see how Floyd stacked up against are as follows:
Alexis Arguello - Tall, lanky, and powerful like Hearns but a little smaller I think it's a more even fight for him.
Pernell Whittaker - Arguably the only guy this side of Willie Pep with as good or better defense than Floyd.
Julio Cesar Chavez - Mainly because his uncle Roger got the shit slapped out of him by JCC
Aaron Pryor - Great chin, big power, decent handspeed
Kostya Tszyu - Big power, great chin, durable fighter
Salvador Sanchez - One tough hombre, fantastic work rate, great chin, solid power
Anyone who thinks Floyd beats Hearns at 147 must be a huge Floyd fan. Because that wouldn't ever happen.
Leonard is too big and just as fast. People forget the 1980 version of Leonard. I think Floyd could have given him problems big time, it's just that I think Leonard would solve them.
The Duran scenario is 50/50 in my view. I could see Roberto getting inside and roughing up Mayweather. I could also see Mayweather being too fast and outboxing him. I pick Floyd by SD.
Floyd beats Duran at welter, loses at lightweight.
Hearns beats Floyd.
Ray Leonard vs Floyd I'd like to see. I'd go with Leonard.
To all the people who are coming here and saying Floyd loses to all of them, I hope you guys have done your homework and watched the fights of all of these guys. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can respect the fact that people may feel these guys destroy Mayweather, but I hope that opinions about this are formed on the basis of logic and in-ring ability, not nonsense like "who fought harder opposition", "who ducked who", "who is a legend and who isn't", ect. Because at the end of the day its just two guys in a ring, and like we all know styles and attributes make fights, not statistics or public opinion.
Anyhow that out of the way, here's how I see it.
Duran is one of my favorite fighters of all time. P4P one of the greatest of all time. But IMHO Floyd is a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE matchup for him, and beats him at LW, WW, or any other weight. I think this "Roberto kills Floyd at LW" notion is nonsense. Roberto was a beast at LW but De Jesus showed what you can do with a pair of fast hands and slick boxing technique. At LW, Floyd outfoxes Duran on the outside and uses his slickness inside to counter Duran and limit Duran's offense. I've seen just about every Duran fight on film, and I can't imagine him beating Floyd. I think Floyd is a god awful matchup for him.
Sugar Ray Leonard would be a much harder task for Floyd. A slick boxer with power and speed would be a tough proposition for Floyd. In SRL's fight with Floyd's daddy, Leonard whipped his ass but you can see Floyd fluster and fustrate Leonard with his defensive style at times during the fight. I think Floyd could do likewise, as we all know Floyd is 10 times the fighter his daddy was at the very least. Its a tough matchup, and it could go either way, but I would put my money on Floyd to outfox him and win a decision.
Floyd vs Hearns for me is the tossup. Tommy was a masterful boxer when he needed to be, had HUGE power obviously and very good handspeed. As far as I know, Floyd has never been at a big reach disadvantage, which he would be against Tommy. Truthfully, this fight is a tossup for me. I can see Tommy keeping him honest and outpointing him, or I can see Tommy landing that big right hand and knocking Floyd out cold. On the other hand, I can see Floyd moving effectively, smothering his offense on the inside and sapping Tommy with jabs to the body and that rapier lead right, which Tommy always seemed to be a sucker for.
At least thats how I see it, anyway
True, but Duran was made to look amateurish by De Jesus in their first fight. He was easily outboxed and nullified by hand speed and a jab. And I think its safe to say Floyd is far superior to De Jesus (RIP) in just about every catagory.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice
I can't even picture Floyd in a fight againsed a prime SRL, probably because most of his opponents of late are old and nowhere near as fast or active or prime.
Duran at 147 I think he could handle due to the size difference, like Marquez, Duran just wasn't suited to the higher weights. Hearns I think beats him.....I mean who has Floyd ever fought that was anywhere near as good as any of these guys really?
Baldomir, Judah, Mitchell, JMM, Hatton, & ODLH and Mosley....oh wait I'm only helping you by naming those guys, that's not my intention.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kel
Pretty much agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.
Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would
beats hearns and duran and just gets edged out by leonard in my honest and superior opinion
Mayweather probably beat Duran at welter but do not think he would beat Hearns and SRL. Leonard was a great welter which means he would find a way to win no matter what the odds. I do not like Leonard but have to respect his skills, concentration, speed, chin, power and sheer will to win. He would find a way to win.
I agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice
You ever seen the man fight? De Jesus was a highly underrated fighter. There was no shame in Duran losing to him like there was when he lost to Kirkland Laing or Pat LawlorQuote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerTrue, but Duran was made to look amateurish by De Jesus in their first fight. He was easily outboxed and nullified by hand speed and a jab. And I think its safe to say Floyd is far superior to De Jesus (RIP) in just about every catagory.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice
You bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HPretty much agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.
Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would
Pretty much yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyYou bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HPretty much agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.
Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would
And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit
I actually think he would beat all 3. Not 100% on that but his defensive ability and counter punching brilliance would cause hell for both Duran and Hearns. Leonard would be the toughest one to call but I think Mayweather would cause him serious trouble with his elusiveness and then his own great speed. I know Leonard would probably have the edge in speed overall at WW but his timing wasn't as good as Mayweathers. This for me would be the hardest fight to call in the history of the WW division (at world level that is) but i'm going Mayweather.
Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemisePretty much yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyYou bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HPretty much agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.
Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would
And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit
Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.
I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.
Alright, but with that you could also argue that Mayweather's chin was arguably better as he was a natural 130 pounder whose chin has held as high as 154. Yet Hearns was a natural 147 pounder who got stopped at that weight class and also got stopped when he moved up?Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinJudah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemisePretty much yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyYou bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HPretty much agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.
Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would
And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit
Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.
I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.
Maybe in a p4p sense yeah, but not at 147. Hearns was only hurt at 147 by Leonard and that was to do with his legs not being built to last him through long, tough fights. His actual chin was pretty good at that weight. Above the weight, only Middleweights (hard-punching ones at that) and a Cruiserweight have stopped him. That hardly shows a weak chin at Welter. Seriously, I actually rate Floyd as a better fighter than Tommy overall, but at 147 there really isn't much doubt who was better, Hearns is just all wrong for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyAlright, but with that you could also argue that Mayweather's chin was arguably better as he was a natural 130 pounder whose chin has held as high as 154. Yet Hearns was a natural 147 pounder who got stopped at that weight class and also got stopped when he moved up?Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
How is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinJudah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemisePretty much yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyYou bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HPretty much agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.
Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would
And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit
Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.
I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.
Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.
I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.
Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.
Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.
I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.
1, That means nothing. It's not an excuse. There is no if Benitez would of trained longer he would of been sharper. If the man couldn't give himself proper training for Leonard and Hearns than chances are he wasn't capable of committing himself. It's just the way he wasQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethHow is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinJudah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemisePretty much yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyYou bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HPretty much agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.
Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would
And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit
Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.
I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.
Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.
I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.
Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.
Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.
I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.
2, That's just moronic to say Hearns was one-dimensional and couldn't fight on the inside. Look at the Hagler fight. Hagler has him pinned on the ropes and is working him over. Watch Hearns pick his spots and land his right hand flush on Hagler's chin. The uppercut got in as well. Yeah he took punishment. But he handed his share out as well. Not like it means anything. Cuz there is no way Mayweather would brawl with him. No way
3, You do realize most of the fights in the 80's were 15 rounds, right? 15 rounds is more than 12 rounds. So of course they wouldn't look as fresh late in fights as today's fighters
[QUOTE=Violent Demise;883537]1. It shows that a guy like Mayweather who both trains hard and is more gifted than Benitez could accomplish that much more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth1, That means nothing. It's not an excuse. There is no if Benitez would of trained longer he would of been sharper. If the man couldn't give himself proper training for Leonard and Hearns than chances are he wasn't capable of committing himself. It's just the way he wasQuote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinHow is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseJudah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HPretty much agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise. Mayweather wouldQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Pretty much yeah.
And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit
Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.
starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.
Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.
I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.
Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.
Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.
I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.
2, That's just moronic to say Hearns was one-dimensional and couldn't fight on the inside. Look at the Hagler fight. Hagler has him pinned on the ropes and is working him over. Watch Hearns pick his spots and land his right hand flush on Hagler's chin. The uppercut got in as well. Yeah he took punishment. But he handed his share out as well. Not like it means anything. Cuz there is no way Mayweather would brawl with him. No way
3, You do realize most of the fights in the 80's were 15 rounds, right? 15 rounds is more than 12 rounds. So of course they wouldn't look as fresh late in fights as today's fighters
2. Hearns isn't a good inside fighter, sure he is effective offensively, but besides head movement he has virtually no defense when he throws punches because he is so pumped up that he doesn't leave a hand back to defend and Floyd would block his shots inside and counter back accurately.
3. I don't need to see what were previously called the championship rounds to see evidence of fatigue with these guys, Hearns never had great stamina especially at WW. Leonard would still be able to throw punches and wasn't gassed in a fight, but his mental sharpness would wane after 6 rounds, and he would get proggresively sloppier both offensively and defensively after that, but his power, speed, and determination usually carried him through.
Leonard was too good for Mayweather, he was a legitamate Welter, who had speed, power and boxing skills. His will to win was second to none, he would have found a way to beat Floyd.
I thought we were ignoring fights above 147? Had he showed an ability to fight on the inside at 147 like against Hagler? Because if his inside fighting on Hagler who was squaring up can be brought in, then his struggles against Benitez should be tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise1, That means nothing. It's not an excuse. There is no if Benitez would of trained longer he would of been sharper. If the man couldn't give himself proper training for Leonard and Hearns than chances are he wasn't capable of committing himself. It's just the way he wasQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethHow is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinJudah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemisePretty much yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyYou bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HPretty much agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.
Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would
And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit
Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.
I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.
Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.
I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.
Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.
Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.
I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.
2, That's just moronic to say Hearns was one-dimensional and couldn't fight on the inside. Look at the Hagler fight. Hagler has him pinned on the ropes and is working him over. Watch Hearns pick his spots and land his right hand flush on Hagler's chin. The uppercut got in as well. Yeah he took punishment. But he handed his share out as well. Not like it means anything. Cuz there is no way Mayweather would brawl with him. No way
3, You do realize most of the fights in the 80's were 15 rounds, right? 15 rounds is more than 12 rounds. So of course they wouldn't look as fresh late in fights as today's fighters