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first off i dont think vargas gets the credit he deserves
he was the last man to beat winky wright for almost 10 years (9 or 10 if you think he beat hopkins)
anyway watching the fight with trinidad did anyone think after the 5th round he was going to win it? I did if you watch the 5th round its about as good as boxing gets, its a shame he couldnt keep it goig in the championship rounds
just wondering if anyone else thought he was going to win it?
Vargas did wonderfully in that fight. Low blows took a lot out of him and without the low blows he may have won. But Trinidad was still a veteran he knew where he was in trouble and used all he could. Wasn't fair by any stretch but Vargas did himself proud. However if Trinidad didnt ruin his career, losing to Oscar and then testing positive for roids after did.
Vargas was a quality fighter and Tito really finished his career. It was a terrible beating, he should have stayed down after the first round, but Vargas is a warrior.
I thought it was a 50/50 fight going in, and Vargas showed tremendous heart and courage to fight back after that first round. However, after that nightmare opening round I never had the feeling he was going to win the fight, even after the 4th when he dropped Tito, just seemed like the typical Tito concentration lapse to me. In hindsight it was too soon for Vargas, but as you say, after the Winky fight he showed he could hang in good company. I would have liked to have seen him against Harry Simon at 154, who I think is one of the biggest wastes of talent I've witnessed.
it was a great fight. trinadad landed 4 low blows. that'll take a lot out of even the greatest fighter... and if you factor in the illegal handwraps tito used then you know vargas had heart. i thought he was gonna win. it was a great fight.
it was 2 low blows, one that Vargas should have won an Academy Award for, and Trinidad's wraps weren't illegal in Vegas, don't confuse Trinidad's Sr.'s wrapping method with the atrocity that Margarito didQuote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesit was 2 low blows, one that Vargas should have won an Academy Award for, and Trinidad's wraps weren't illegal in Vegas, don't confuse Trinidad's Sr.'s wrapping method with the atrocity that Margarito didQuote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
it was a great fight. trinadad landed 4 low blows. that'll take a lot out of even the greatest fighter... and if you factor in the illegal handwraps tito used then you know vargas had heart. i thought he was gonna win. it was a great fight.
you reposting your original post doesn't change the fact that it was 2 low blows and that Trinidad wasn't wearing illegal wraps, because the wrapping method is legal in VegasQuote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesit was 2 low blows, one that Vargas should have won an Academy Award for, and Trinidad's wraps weren't illegal in Vegas, don't confuse Trinidad's Sr.'s wrapping method with the atrocity that Margarito didQuote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
it was a great fight. trinadad landed 4 low blows. that'll take a lot out of even the greatest fighter... and if you factor in the illegal handwraps tito used then you know vargas had heart. i thought he was gonna win. it was a great fight.
I was lucky enough to see that fight live. My Dad and I went down to the fight to buy a program and they were discounting tickets to help fill the arena. We got $900 seats (row 9) for $100 each!! We got to the seats just as the fight was starting.
Vargas showed a tonne of heart coming back from the 1st round. He was in the process of turning the fight around when Tito nailed him with the first low blow. It really effected Vargas and he started to slow down after that. He showed he had heart in the fight.
FYI - I'd say 90% of people that saw the fight with Winky (not including Vargas family) felt like Vargas didn't win the fight. You might be able to argue a draw but no way Fernando gets that win.
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Originally Posted by oakleyno1
I think there was a handwrap controversy on that fight. Vargas said that a former cornerman for Tito told him to beware of Tito's handwraps. Vargas said that it was like he was hit with a baseball bat everytime Tito punches. After that fight, Vargas was never the same. He looked like a man who is not able to take a punch anymore...
the controversy of Trinidad's wraps came from the Hopkins fight, and Richardson himself said that it wasn't that he had loaded gloves or anything, just that the method used to wrap Trinidad's hands wasn't allowed in NY, it was completely legal in Vegas, the only thing that Trinidad Sr. does different is that instead of putting more support on the wrist with the gauze, he applies more on the knuckles, which is still legal in NevadaQuote:
Originally Posted by jolzQuote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
I think there was a handwrap controversy on that fight. Vargas said that a former cornerman for Tito told him to beware of Tito's handwraps. Vargas said that it was like he was hit with a baseball bat everytime Tito punches. After that fight, Vargas was never the same. He looked like a man who is not able to take a punch anymore...
Who's Harry Simon ???
Only Kidding ;D
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Originally Posted by oakleyno1
Great topic.
When i was a kid I loved Vargas, i would read about all his fights (even had a picture of him taped to the front of my english workbook, please don't laugh) :D My brother went on holiday to jamaica thanks to a friends of ours having a cheap ticket left over as someone pulled out and he managed to see Vargas v Thompson live on tv over there i was so jealous lol
We didnt have internet or sky back then so it was pretty much impossible to get to see him fight for myself. I managed to use paper round money 1 week to buy a video of a few Vargas fights if i remember right i had the Quartey, Wright, Thompson, Trinidad and Clarke fights. Reckon i burned that tape out!
Anyway i remember being in 6th form the day after the Trinidad fight feeling nervous and sick to find out the result but i assumed i would have to wait to get BN that week, but my bro rushed to find me and told me Vargas had lost he said the result was mentioned in the round up weekend of sports results in the sun. I had to run to find out for myself, i was gutted!
LOL that's enough memories from me back to the discussion.
I'd say Vargas does get the credit he deserves for that fight, it may seem as though he doesn't as peoples opinions of him appear to have diminished due to the results he had towards the end of his career and that he was 'shot' very quickly after the trinidad fight, he always seemed like his punch resistance was gone.
I always felt he could have won the fight after the 5th but he was always playing catch up and looked to be trailing, he always needed a knockout in my eyes. The fight came too early for him but saying that he might have become 'shot' fairly quick anyway he had so much heart and underrated boxing skills that he was in tough fights that he could have made easier for himself. Was a good decision to take the fight regardless as you never know what might happen. At least he didnt end up like poor david reid.
BTW i think Vargas beat Wright, it was close but Vargas won.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthe controversy of Trinidad's wraps came from the Hopkins fight, and Richardson himself said that it wasn't that he had loaded gloves or anything, just that the method used to wrap Trinidad's hands wasn't allowed in NY, it was completely legal in Vegas, the only thing that Trinidad Sr. does different is that instead of putting more support on the wrist with the gauze, he applies more on the knuckles, which is still legal in NevadaQuote:
Originally Posted by jolzQuote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
I think there was a handwrap controversy on that fight. Vargas said that a former cornerman for Tito told him to beware of Tito's handwraps. Vargas said that it was like he was hit with a baseball bat everytime Tito punches. After that fight, Vargas was never the same. He looked like a man who is not able to take a punch anymore...
I have read that article on HBO.com. I will try to find and give you the link...
Vargas was one of the most mature fighters for his age that I've seen. Taking on Tito when he was how old? Wasn't he like 20? No older than 22...he get's dropped HARD the first few rounds and even after he is hurt (when most young fighters would have folded after experiencing that for the first time) , he still made adjustments and got himself back into the fight.
Yeah, certainly it looked like the momentum was his in the 4th going into the 5th..those low blows definitely played a part and I don't think Vargas didn the whole "oscars" performance..he could have taken 5 minutes from those hard low blows but went pretty much straight back in.
Unbelievable Fighter - He definitely doesn't get the credit he deserves. He is one of my favourite Mexican fighters of all time. He had that swagger and ability to piss everyone off - Everyone thought he'd be a pussy because of his boy'ish looks but it turned out he still had that Mexican heart AND could box clever on top of that!
Very under-rated but didn't do himself no favours by hitting the buffet regularly towards the end of his career. Lack of discipline and that Oscar De La Hoya beating ruined him..I thought that he was still pretty live until that fight.
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Originally Posted by oakleyno1
The low blows affected Vargas IMO but still a great performance from Tito.