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Jack Johnson, always claims that this fight was a set up, and that he was not really knocked out.He is seen shading his eyes from the sun, in the knock out photo, he was 37 years old ,the fight lasted 26 rounds.Ive seen most of the old footage of the fight ,and l agree with Johnsons view, that he threw the fight.Jess Willard was not skillful enough to beat Johnson.l understand that this was a long time a go ,1915 but l would be interested to hear what people think regards. keo.
i remember watching some footage a few years ago and to me Johnson was old out of shape and got put down by a punch...
without researching it again i would say he lost the fight to the younger giant IMO
Agreed Johnson was old and it was a very hot day and got caught with a peach of a punch. It was a legitimate stoppage. Johnson at his best would have beaten Willard easily. Johnson only said that years later, to make some publicity, controversy and money.
Johnson sold that story to a french newspaper in his later years. I don't think any real boxing historian finds it credible.
If you read Unforgivable Blackness, they paint a picture of a poor conditioned Johnson that went into that fight.
He had not had a real fight in a long time, he was overweight, and he was drinking and partying every night. And the fight was a condition of his re-entry into the US. Before the fight, the promotors knew that Johnson would be beaten by any legitimate fighter.
If johnson was going to throw a fight, why fight for over an hour in a baking sun before 'lying down'? Its bullshit. He was beaten fair and square by the better guy on the day even though the same man wasnt in johnsons league in his prime
Good Logic wins :cool:.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
Think the story was he was waiting until he got confirmation that he got paid. That is what Johnson alleges.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreGood Logic wins :cool:.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
.....maybe to rattle the people telling him to take a dive? Maybe to show up his opponent that even as old and out of shape as he was that he could still have beaten the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThink the story was he was waiting until he got confirmation that he got paid. That is what Johnson alleges.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreGood Logic wins :cool:.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
I doubt it was a dive...Jess was a big boy and gave Johnson a grown man style beat down.
Age,debt,the elements and Willards weathering his early stuff just took an evitable toll on spent Johnson.He may have been consicious enough to know he was on the mat but never know what goes through a guys head in that condition...in the 26th round no less.
I think that Johnson was hitting Willard when ever he wanted to and he was out of range of willard and parried his punches with ease.If you can get the fight footage ,you will see this.Johnson threw the fight in my opinion.Regards .keo.
"As the bell rings for the start of the 26th round, a voice could be heard yelling from the back of the crowd,,, "Hey Johnson! We've confirmed,, the funds are now in your account!!",,, and as if on cue, the great Jack Johnson,,, drops like a bag of sh!t..."Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThink the story was he was waiting until he got confirmation that he got paid. That is what Johnson alleges.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreGood Logic wins :cool:.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
The end.
Whether he was poorly conditioned, there was a proverbial knife in his back and he wanted to go home considering that he was out of place in Europe and forced to act like someone he could never be. It was in some eyes too little too late. The curtain came down. As for the fix, 26 rounds is a long time to find out if the funds have been deposited. He should have done it before entering the ring. As for the reason he either got screwed or said he was screwed, the United States has come a long way with it's attitude toward racism and for all practical purposes, it's working it's way into the closet like some other prejudices used to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut
Johnson, on that day, could not touch Willard and he got hit by a big right hand from a 245 pound man after 26 rounds in the Caribbean sun. Game over for Johnson. Doubtful that Johnson would have gotten hit by that punch in his prime. Not so different than James Jeffries running out of gas and essentially collapsing from exhaustion on the "Great White Hope" fight some 5 years earlier. Jeffries took much worse beatings in his prime from the likes of Fitz and Sharkey and bulled his way to victories due to his massive strength and conditioning. For the Johnson fight, JJJ was a shell of his former self with no warm up fights. Big surprise that the fight ended like it did. Johnson was like Jeffries at the end - past their prime, out of fighting trim, and lost to age, essentially.
We all do, eventually. The supreme equalizer and the ultimate slap in the face, old age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand Man
I don't buy that "shielding his eyes" shit for one second. Even with the old footage, you could see Willard land that huge right FLUSH on the chin, and I've seen a TON of guys go down over the years who instinctively held their arms over their head due to being completely disoriented and going on pure instinct, even on the ground. He got knocked out, plain and simple.
And I don't get why he would brag about that, anyhow. I guess it was different and taking a dive was more accepted back then? But if a world champ got knocked out now and said "well I wasn't really knocked out I just threw the fight"... that would just make that fighter look 10x worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keo
:lol:
A fighter from a century ago. Does SB not have a classic forum?
Whats so funny about that. Its a boxing forum and many including myself enjoy discussing past eras.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERQuote:
Originally Posted by keo
:lol:
A fighter from a century ago. Does SB not have a classic forum?
If they are going to do anything they should make a freakin Klitschko forum.
I would love that. They own a division so why not a forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWhats so funny about that. Its a boxing forum and many including myself enjoy discussing past eras.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERQuote:
Originally Posted by keo
:lol:
A fighter from a century ago. Does SB not have a classic forum?
If they are going to do anything they should make a freakin Klitschko forum.
Urban legend. I guess its possible but you don't wager 2500 bucks on yourself to win and then take a dive in the 26th round. The gloves over the eyes thing has happened before many times but you don't get pictures of most of them. Holyfield/Douglas more recently and Conn/Louis is another from the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by keo
Conn and Johnson got caught talking when they should have been listening. Willard was a flailing, lumbering oaf with two left feet who never turned pro until 29 but he had heart and grit and by all accounts was getting the shit kicked out of him prior to Johnsons tank going empty.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps41c0ae30.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf0717bb1.jpg
yes excellent point just go in 1/2 hearted and after 6 minutes take a dive. Was he working on his tan for 25 rounds first in that sun?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
Johnson claims that he was waiting for the money to be handed over and when he got the nod which was after 25 rounds he took the dive. I believe he was fairly beaten and he wanted to make some money in his retirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustyes excellent point just go in 1/2 hearted and after 6 minutes take a dive. Was he working on his tan for 25 rounds first in that sun?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
He absolutely was fairly beaten. His ego could never allow himself to admit he was beaten, thus the "throw the fight" baloney he concocted.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJohnson claims that he was waiting for the money to be handed over and when he got the nod which was after 25 rounds he took the dive. I believe he was fairly beaten and he wanted to make some money in his retirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustyes excellent point just go in 1/2 hearted and after 6 minutes take a dive. Was he working on his tan for 25 rounds first in that sun?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
I agree with you, it was a way to make some money years afterwards and get some media attention.
It's true that Willard didn't have the greatest skills, but I believe he just wore the older Johnson down over the course of 26 rounds in brutal temperatures. Remember, Johnson was 37 years old ancient for a Heavyweight Champion back in 1915. If Johnson was going to throw the fight he wouldn't have endured 26 rounds of punishment before taking a dive. My guess is, he gave it all he could, but was exhausted and couldn't continue, or simply decided to quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by keo
I reckon the only person who knows for sure is Johnson. :-X
BTW, welcome to SaddoBoxing, good thread.
Johnson was a brilliant story teller, and with 'that' picture, he could blag that he was shielding his eyes et al. But when the film was found (not that long ago), it clearly shows the fight was not fixed and that Johnson passed out while the referee counted him out.