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Marquez was offered a career high payday of $400,000 to face Naz in the year 2000. He turned it down claiming he wasn't ready for Naz, even though he spent two years as WBO no.1 mandatory. Naz ruined the unfortunate Augie Sanchez instead.
The question is - where would Marquez be without this duck of Naz? It was clearly a great move. Fact.
Discuss
Its like 2006 all over again.
Where's Starr?
I miss the good old days.
This is a serious topic though. Marquez, some would call disgraceful, duckige of Naz needs some serious discourse.
I'm thinking the only difference between Marquez and Augie Sanchez is - Marquez never had to endure the rocket launchers. Fact/
That right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
You mean it coulda been Marquez to slam Nassem headfirst into a corner post instead of Barrera? I bet he wishes it coulda been him. I know I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
No doubt. One of the most hilarious (and actually quite sad) excuse I've heard was that Hamed wasn't in his prime when Barrera clowned him. If he was than he would of beat Barrera. :lolhaha: Fucking idiots. Like that was actually a prime Barrera who beat Hamed. It wasn't. A prime Barrera would of stopped HamedQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanYou mean it coulda been Marquez to slam Nassem headfirst into a corner post instead of Barrera? I bet he wishes it coulda been him. I know I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
I can't access the link. Nas was a great fighter, just didn't have the drive after reaching a certain stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Marquez is a legendary fighter in his own right, I think it's more of Nacho saying no than Marquez saying no. Just like the 30k payday to fight Chris John in Indonesia instead of rematching Pac was Nacho's brilliant idea.
A link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
All three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
Im not going to get involved in this too much, because its bait thread like the B-Hop one. So all i'll say is that JMM would of embarrassed Naseem Hamed no doubt in my mind. JMM's style is based on timing and counter punching, which is Naseem Hamed's worst nightmare.
JMM would constantly exploit Naseem Hamed's wild swinging punches, and his terrible balance on his way to a commanding UD win.
Hmm?.. Why JMM ducked Naz? Good question. Maybe he was still in the process of discovering the herbal piss?
pacs,
yeah, just like pacroido pussied out when marquez humiliated him in his own country! remember?
Not really. The fact that Marquez mentions the two year wait suggests that under fair circumstances he would have taken the fight. You could quite easily make a justifiable case for Hamed ducking Marquez which VD has already done.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
Not really.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoNot really. The fact that Marquez mentions the two year wait suggests that under fair circumstances he would have taken the fight. You could quite easily make a justifiable case for Hamed ducking Marquez which VD has already done.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
Naz was busy unifying the featherweight division. Marquez was a nobody, viewed as a boring fighter, HBO weren't interested in him.
It's like claiming Margarito ducked Michael Jennings - Jennings was his mandatory for over a year.
Anyway, lets stick to facts, Marquez ducked a career high payday offer to face the Naz fella. Undeniable, concrete, iron plated fact. Fact.
Discuss
it looks like naz turned out to be a no heart fighter by retiring one fight after his ass kicking at the hands of barrera! turns out marquez will be remember more kindly in the annals of boxing instead! marquez turned to have a superior career to the weak hearted naz, who quit the game after he was exposed!
Marquez then accpeted a fight with Chris John for a £20 marks and Spencer voucher, weird world we live in.
Saying that though would of been a good fight back then but like the poster above Marquez is the one who has had the better career and proved he is hall of famer.
Obviously, you don't know anything about boxing b/c we weren't even talking about Pacquiao. Go jump on one of those other threads. You're not even in the ballpark, buddy. ANYONE can talk about Pacquiao. Everything he's done is well documented, and you can just go on regurgitating the crap you hear from other people. But go find another thread to vomit on.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
And what country are you talking about anyway?
back to the topic
I didn't follow Naz's career that well (b/c I'm american), but I don't think the financial restitution was there to warrant this fight. Marquez stock didn't rise until after the Barrera fight, which I thought could have gone either way if it wasn't for that crap call by the ref on the knockdown in the 8th.
Naz was filling venues with much softer competition, and taking a king lions share of the purse. Naz would probably have met the same fate against Marquez, but I don't think it was a matter of either man ducking. The money was just never right
jonny,
how do you know i don't know anything about boxing, "buddy"?! and fyi, i made that comment to pacsstraightleft, because he always seems to be saying negative things about mexican boxers and marquez in particular. so this has nothing to do with you, "buddy"! okay buddy!
In the first Marquez and Pacquaio fight, Marquez rose from the canvas three times in the first round and put on one of the finest comeback displays I've ever seen.
Anyone who displays that bravery can't be accused of cowardice.
If your saying its a fact, hen what is the point of discussing it ? i don't get it. So at that time JMM didn't fancy the fight and you've provided the link, so what else is there to discuss ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNot really.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoNot really. The fact that Marquez mentions the two year wait suggests that under fair circumstances he would have taken the fight. You could quite easily make a justifiable case for Hamed ducking Marquez which VD has already done.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
Naz was busy unifying the featherweight division. Marquez was a nobody, viewed as a boring fighter, HBO weren't interested in him.
It's like claiming Margarito ducked Michael Jennings - Jennings was his mandatory for over a year.
Anyway, lets stick to facts, Marquez ducked a career high payday offer to face the Naz fella. Undeniable, concrete, iron plated fact. Fact.
Discuss
But to try and say JMM ducked Naseem Hamed to get a rise out of people is just ridiculous. Considering the opposition the man has faced.
And also considering JMM beat the fighter that ended Naseem Hamed's career, and went even twice with one of the best fighters of all time.
And that is a fact, JMM also lost to Freddie Norwood who he should of got the win against, perhaps he wasn't mentally up to at that point, but prior to that he was ready willing and able, it was just at that point. He was coming off a bad loss and a loss which he didn't deserve, it was just wrong timing end of.
JMM was ducked, so he was give one opportunity in 2 years at short notice and low pay does not mean he avoided the fight because he was probably expected to say no under those conditions.
Low pay? That offer was probably 10X his biggest previous payday. He was a chump change fighter. HBO didn't want to know him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Short notice? He fought a week later against Daniel Jimenez (probably for 100 bucks and a crate of sols).
Fair point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBIf your saying its a fact, hen what is the point of discussing it ? i don't get it. So at that time JMM didn't fancy the fight and you've provided the link, so what else is there to discuss ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNot really.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoNot really. The fact that Marquez mentions the two year wait suggests that under fair circumstances he would have taken the fight. You could quite easily make a justifiable case for Hamed ducking Marquez which VD has already done.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
Naz was busy unifying the featherweight division. Marquez was a nobody, viewed as a boring fighter, HBO weren't interested in him.
It's like claiming Margarito ducked Michael Jennings - Jennings was his mandatory for over a year.
Anyway, lets stick to facts, Marquez ducked a career high payday offer to face the Naz fella. Undeniable, concrete, iron plated fact. Fact.
Discuss
But to try and say JMM ducked Naseem Hamed to get a rise out of people is just ridiculous. Considering the opposition the man has faced.
And also considering JMM beat the fighter that ended Naseem Hamed's career, and went even twice with one of the best fighters of all time.
And that is a fact, JMM also lost to Freddie Norwood who he should of got the win against, perhaps he wasn't mentally up to at that point, but prior to that he was ready willing and able, it was just at that point. He was coming off a bad loss and a loss which he didn't deserve, it was just wrong timing end of.
But someone has to educate the masses. There will always be dissenters therefore always something to discuss.
Discuss
anyone who claims marquez has ever ducked anybody obviously doesn't know how big his fighting heart is. he isn't one to cherrypick his opponents like alot of other champions!
This thread is in no way shape or form questioning Marquez heart. A duck doesn't equal cowardness.
Were just establishing the facts.
I actually did some research on this when this topic was posted a while ago. I actually found some stuff on some reporters saying Hamed was ducking Marquez. I honestly believe this as well. But you do have some good proof Fens.
I completely agree! Marquez would've feasted on Hamed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Not making too many fans on this thread are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
C-LO
i'm not here for any touchy-feelies like you!
Good one. Surely I will be losing sleep tonight...Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Fens = Wanka
Fact.
Thank you. 2 years he waited and waited. But Hamed wanted none. You said it yourself. Can't argue facts. You provided the proof. For 2 years Hamed ducked him. He had no problem fighting chumps like Ingle. A fighter who'd own mother didn't know she had a son named Paul. But looked for every excuse not to fight MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
It's like this. Hamed was a good entertaining fighter. Fun to watch. But an ATG he is more certainly not. Facts don’t lie. And facts are Hamed never beat a real good fighter who was in his prime. All the fighters he fought who were a name came in with ridiculous amount of mileage on them. When Hamed fought Barrera. Barrera had already fought 55 times. Cesar Soto 63. Wilfredo Vazquez 59. Kevin Kelley 50. Vuyani Bungu 39. Tom Johnson 48. Manuel Medina 59. The ones that didn’t Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough were not as good as the previous fighters mentioned. McCullough was average. Ingle was straight garbage.
The two year wait just harms Marquez case for the duck. If he spent that long chasing Naz how come he said NO the first opportunity he got? Don't make sense. The truth is Marquez/Beristain never wanted any part of Naz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThank you. 2 years he waited and waited. But Hamed wanted none. You said it yourself. Can't argue facts. You provided the proof. For 2 years Hamed ducked him. He had no problem fighting chumps like Ingle. A fighter who'd own mother didn't know she had a son named Paul. But looked for every excuse not to fight MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
It's like this. Hamed was a good entertaining fighter. Fun to watch. But an ATG he is more certainly not. Facts don’t lie. And facts are Hamed never beat a real good fighter who was in his prime. All the fighters he fought who were a name came in with ridiculous amount of mileage on them. When Hamed fought Barrera. Barrera had already fought 55 times. Cesar Soto 63. Wilfredo Vazquez 59. Kevin Kelley 50. Vuyani Bungu 39. Tom Johnson 48. Manuel Medina 59. The ones that didn’t Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough were not as good as the previous fighters mentioned. McCullough was average. Ingle was straight garbage.
Here's a little quiz for you.
What do these guys have in common - Coto, Johnson, Medina, Kelly, McCullough, Bungu and Vazquez? That's right, they had all won "world" titles before Naz bashed them. Even Paul Ingle won the IBF title in his very next fight after losing to Naz.
Marquez had how many world titles back in Naz day? That's right, ZERO!! Marquez didn't become a "world" champion until bascially TWO years AFTER Naz had retired.
Just like Marquez the man himself said - "I want to fight Naz when I have a world title to make it more fair"
Marquez simply wasn't ready for Naz back then. And Naz had bigger fish to fry unifying the featherweight divison.
The duck explained. Fact.
haha pussied out?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
anyways, naz is the topic here not Pacquiao..Quit trolling milmASScasASS...;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe two year wait just harms Marquez case for the duck. If he spent that long chasing Naz how come he said NO the first opportunity he got? Don't make sense. The truth is Marquez/Beristain never wanted any part of Naz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThank you. 2 years he waited and waited. But Hamed wanted none. You said it yourself. Can't argue facts. You provided the proof. For 2 years Hamed ducked him. He had no problem fighting chumps like Ingle. A fighter who'd own mother didn't know she had a son named Paul. But looked for every excuse not to fight MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
It's like this. Hamed was a good entertaining fighter. Fun to watch. But an ATG he is more certainly not. Facts don’t lie. And facts are Hamed never beat a real good fighter who was in his prime. All the fighters he fought who were a name came in with ridiculous amount of mileage on them. When Hamed fought Barrera. Barrera had already fought 55 times. Cesar Soto 63. Wilfredo Vazquez 59. Kevin Kelley 50. Vuyani Bungu 39. Tom Johnson 48. Manuel Medina 59. The ones that didn’t Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough were not as good as the previous fighters mentioned. McCullough was average. Ingle was straight garbage.
Here's a little quiz for you.
What do these guys have in common - Coto, Johnson, Medina, Kelly, McCullough, Bungu and Vazquez? That's right, they had all won "world" titles before Naz bashed them. Even Paul Ingle won the IBF title in his very next fight after losing to Naz.
Marquez had how many world titles back in Naz day? That's right, ZERO!! Marquez didn't become a "world" champion until bascially TWO years AFTER Naz had retired.
Just like Marquez the man himself said - "I want to fight Naz when I have a world title to make it more fair"
Marquez simply wasn't ready for Naz back then. And Naz had bigger fish to fry unifying the featherweight divison.
The duck explained. Fact.
;D Awesome thread.
Im with you Fenster at the moment, ya putting forward a great case ;)
I haven't ever seen Manuel Medina vs Paul Ingle, that sounded like a cracking fight. 4 knockdowns with Paul Ingle going down in the last round, Paul Ingle was one of my favorites when i was young.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe two year wait just harms Marquez case for the duck. If he spent that long chasing Naz how come he said NO the first opportunity he got? Don't make sense. The truth is Marquez/Beristain never wanted any part of Naz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThank you. 2 years he waited and waited. But Hamed wanted none. You said it yourself. Can't argue facts. You provided the proof. For 2 years Hamed ducked him. He had no problem fighting chumps like Ingle. A fighter who'd own mother didn't know she had a son named Paul. But looked for every excuse not to fight MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
It's like this. Hamed was a good entertaining fighter. Fun to watch. But an ATG he is more certainly not. Facts don’t lie. And facts are Hamed never beat a real good fighter who was in his prime. All the fighters he fought who were a name came in with ridiculous amount of mileage on them. When Hamed fought Barrera. Barrera had already fought 55 times. Cesar Soto 63. Wilfredo Vazquez 59. Kevin Kelley 50. Vuyani Bungu 39. Tom Johnson 48. Manuel Medina 59. The ones that didn’t Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough were not as good as the previous fighters mentioned. McCullough was average. Ingle was straight garbage.
Here's a little quiz for you.
What do these guys have in common - Coto, Johnson, Medina, Kelly, McCullough, Bungu and Vazquez? That's right, they had all won "world" titles before Naz bashed them. Even Paul Ingle won the IBF title in his very next fight after losing to Naz.
Marquez had how many world titles back in Naz day? That's right, ZERO!! Marquez didn't become a "world" champion until bascially TWO years AFTER Naz had retired.
Just like Marquez the man himself said - "I want to fight Naz when I have a world title to make it more fair"
Marquez simply wasn't ready for Naz back then. And Naz had bigger fish to fry unifying the featherweight divison.
The duck explained. Fact.
I still remember him beating Junior Jones, i remember how proud i was of him that night. Because i'd heard of Junior Jones reputation. Obviously i wasn't as clued up then, because i was very young.
I know now that Junior Jones was on his last legs and was ready to be taken, but still Paul Ingle had to get up from a terrific right hand from Junior Jones, the same type of right hand that layed out MAB.
And he recovered quickly and stopped Junior Jones shortly after, and the last thing to go is your power. It was such a shame what happened to Paul Ingle, i remember i was really cut up about it i hope he's doing well now.
He needed more time to fight Naz, to prepare.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterLow pay? That offer was probably 10X his biggest previous payday. He was a chump change fighter. HBO didn't want to know him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Short notice? He fought a week later against Daniel Jimenez (probably for 100 bucks and a crate of sols).
What big fish? Cesar Soto? Come on now. Hamed didn't care about unifiying. But trying to unify was the only excuse he had left that the WBO was going to buy. They were set to strip him for his shameful ducking of Marquez. That's a fact. Hamed backed himself into a unification bout when he used it as an excuse. Why you think he never went after the other 2 titles?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe two year wait just harms Marquez case for the duck. If he spent that long chasing Naz how come he said NO the first opportunity he got? Don't make sense. The truth is Marquez/Beristain never wanted any part of Naz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThank you. 2 years he waited and waited. But Hamed wanted none. You said it yourself. Can't argue facts. You provided the proof. For 2 years Hamed ducked him. He had no problem fighting chumps like Ingle. A fighter who'd own mother didn't know she had a son named Paul. But looked for every excuse not to fight MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
It's like this. Hamed was a good entertaining fighter. Fun to watch. But an ATG he is more certainly not. Facts don’t lie. And facts are Hamed never beat a real good fighter who was in his prime. All the fighters he fought who were a name came in with ridiculous amount of mileage on them. When Hamed fought Barrera. Barrera had already fought 55 times. Cesar Soto 63. Wilfredo Vazquez 59. Kevin Kelley 50. Vuyani Bungu 39. Tom Johnson 48. Manuel Medina 59. The ones that didn’t Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough were not as good as the previous fighters mentioned. McCullough was average. Ingle was straight garbage.
Here's a little quiz for you.
What do these guys have in common - Coto, Johnson, Medina, Kelly, McCullough, Bungu and Vazquez? That's right, they had all won "world" titles before Naz bashed them. Even Paul Ingle won the IBF title in his very next fight after losing to Naz.
Marquez had how many world titles back in Naz day? That's right, ZERO!! Marquez didn't become a "world" champion until bascially TWO years AFTER Naz had retired.
Just like Marquez the man himself said - "I want to fight Naz when I have a world title to make it more fair"
Marquez simply wasn't ready for Naz back then. And Naz had bigger fish to fry unifying the featherweight divison.
The duck explained. Fact.
It wasn't only Marquez either. Hamed ducked just about every fighter capable of beating him. Check it. I'm about to give you privileged information that people have gone great lengths to keep under wraps. Consider yourself lucky that I'm even telling you. You don't really deserve it. But I like to deal in facts. And these are stone cold facts regarding Hamed's retirement. After being embarrassed by a past his prime Barrera, Hamed went back to his locker room and openly discussed his future with his team. Despite all his arrogance and brash talk Hamed was really a very insecure fighter. He had a lot of self doubt. But beating the right type of hand picked opponents and a bunch of yes men and Hamed was able to fool himself into thinking he was everything he said he was. The Barrera loss destroyed his whole charade. His whole manufactured rep that he so carefully build was crumpling. Being seen as a fraud was not something he could live with. What now? If he couldn't beat a declining Barrera than who could he beat? HBO wasn't going to allow him to fight scrubs like Paul Ingle any more. They wanted him against the top dogs. Who else was out there? Erik Morales? Fuck no. Never Hamed said. Juan Manuel Marquez? He ducked him for 2 years for a reason. With those 2 and Barrera at Featherweight Hamed knew he would never be King at 126 again. How about moving up? Who runs things at 130? Who the big names? Floyd Mayweather Jr, Joel Casamayor, Diego Corrales and Acelino Freitas were the title holders he was told. Reality was brutal to Hamed. He knew he stood no chance against either of them title holders. Having no desire to be embarrassed again he elected to retire. He didn't want to end things with a loss. So he took one last fight against a D level fighter and left. He knew he would take hits for leaving the way he did. So many things that could still be done would never be. But he felt it was better to leave with an incomplete career than to continue on and endure more embarrassment and in the process rack up the losses. Smart move
Ingle was a respectable fighter, he beat Jones and he gave Hamed hell in the latter rounds. Hamed was certainly slipping by the time he lost to MAB, he had tasted the canvas a number of time before that loss and not against good fighter either.
Ingle was passable. Lets leave it at that. He beat Manuel Medina who came in with 10 losses and had seen better days. Ingle still barely hung on for the win. Junior Jones was already done by the time Ingle fought him. Even the bias as fuck UK announcers acknowledge that. The first prime opponent he faced the very good Mbulelo Botile damn near kills him and ends his career. Says it all for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
You were proud of someone when you were about 8? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBI haven't ever seen Manuel Medina vs Paul Ingle, that sounded like a cracking fight. 4 knockdowns with Paul Ingle going down in the last round, Paul Ingle was one of my favorites when i was young.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe two year wait just harms Marquez case for the duck. If he spent that long chasing Naz how come he said NO the first opportunity he got? Don't make sense. The truth is Marquez/Beristain never wanted any part of Naz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThank you. 2 years he waited and waited. But Hamed wanted none. You said it yourself. Can't argue facts. You provided the proof. For 2 years Hamed ducked him. He had no problem fighting chumps like Ingle. A fighter who'd own mother didn't know she had a son named Paul. But looked for every excuse not to fight MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterAll three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseA link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster90% of your post is utter drivel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp
There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.
Read and weep boy -
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."
"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."
Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."
Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.
Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.
It's like this. Hamed was a good entertaining fighter. Fun to watch. But an ATG he is more certainly not. Facts don’t lie. And facts are Hamed never beat a real good fighter who was in his prime. All the fighters he fought who were a name came in with ridiculous amount of mileage on them. When Hamed fought Barrera. Barrera had already fought 55 times. Cesar Soto 63. Wilfredo Vazquez 59. Kevin Kelley 50. Vuyani Bungu 39. Tom Johnson 48. Manuel Medina 59. The ones that didn’t Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough were not as good as the previous fighters mentioned. McCullough was average. Ingle was straight garbage.
Here's a little quiz for you.
What do these guys have in common - Coto, Johnson, Medina, Kelly, McCullough, Bungu and Vazquez? That's right, they had all won "world" titles before Naz bashed them. Even Paul Ingle won the IBF title in his very next fight after losing to Naz.
Marquez had how many world titles back in Naz day? That's right, ZERO!! Marquez didn't become a "world" champion until bascially TWO years AFTER Naz had retired.
Just like Marquez the man himself said - "I want to fight Naz when I have a world title to make it more fair"
Marquez simply wasn't ready for Naz back then. And Naz had bigger fish to fry unifying the featherweight divison.
The duck explained. Fact.
I still remember him beating Junior Jones, i remember how proud i was of him that night. Because i'd heard of Junior Jones reputation. Obviously i wasn't as clued up then, because i was very young.
I know now that Junior Jones was on his last legs and was ready to be taken, but still Paul Ingle had to get up from a terrific right hand from Junior Jones, the same type of right hand that layed out MAB.
And he recovered quickly and stopped Junior Jones shortly after, and the last thing to go is your power. It was such a shame what happened to Paul Ingle, i remember i was really cut up about it i hope he's doing well now.