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Oscar is a sure fire hall of famer and a great fighter.
But is he a legend ?
Will he be remembered the same as Hagler, Hearns, Duran and Leonard ?
I would say NO.
Oscar was a great fighter, but he missed becoming a legend.
In comparison I would say that Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones and James Toney are legends.
Oscar is a legend because he revitalized the sport, he has the biggest PPV draws for anyone not being a HW and to top it off he is running one of the top promotion companies in the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
I'd say he'll go down as a legend .
You could argue both sides, but yes he probably should go down as a legend. He pretty much fought the best, granted people will say he lost some of his biggest fights and got some gifts in others, well 2 of his big losses, tito and second shane, easily could be wins with different judges...Like onixx said he revitalized the sport drew interest from people that otherwise have no interest in boxing, and was always almost competitive while in his good years and up to 154 lbs.
Depends on what your definition of legend is. He's done a lot for boxing and kept it in the mainstream a little longer in the '00s especially his fights with the current 2 top fighters. However I disagree on the fact he revitalized the sport as others here have said. To revitalize something means that you're bringing back a sport that was dead. Boxing was never dead in the 90's when Oscar hit the scene, especially considering that decade produced the 2nd greatest HW era behind the '70s. And the state of boxing in the mainstream has always been determined by how healthy the HW division is.
Oscar is a great fighter and in my eyes he's a legend, but barely makes it.
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Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Better said. A better description would be that he brough alot of attention to the lighter weight divisions.
in my opinion yes
he fought the best there was plus i also thought he beat mosley & trinidad
1st fighter in history to have 6 division world championships.
Highest earning fighter in history.
Probably best looking too.
Yes he is a LEGEND.
Yes but theres also a flipside to that, i thought he lost to Ike Quartey, Felix Sturm. And just about scrapped a draw vs a past his prime Pernell Whitaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago
But then again there's no real shame in that. Well except obviously Felix Sturm because he isn't obviously on same level as other 2 names. But he's still pretty decent fighter and ODLH was in horrible shape for that fight, and he never belonged at Middleweight so we can excuse him that.
As for being a legend, yes of course he is a legend. He was one of the most recognized names in boxing in the 90's. He won an Olympic gold medal, aswell as winning titles in 6 different weightclasses, aswell as fighting the whos/who of boxing.
What else could he have done ?
yeah he defo lost the sturm fight cant remember who i had winning the ike fight tho?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBYes but theres also a flipside to that, i thought he lost to Ike Quartey, Felix Sturm. And just about scrapped a draw vs a past his prime Pernell Whitaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago
But then again there's no real shame in that. Well except obviously Felix Sturm because he isn't obviously on same level as other 2 names. But he's still pretty decent fighter and ODLH was in horrible shape for that fight, and he never belonged at Middleweight so we can excuse him that.
As for being a legend, yes of course he is a legend. He was one of the most recognized names in boxing in the 90's. He won an Olympic gold medal, aswell as winning titles in 6 different weightclasses, aswell as fighting the whos/who of boxing.
What else could he have done ?
think he got the gift with sturm fight cos he had the big fight with hopkins coming up?
Well even with the last round knockdown, Ike Quartey still won that fight. He busted up ODLH with his jab, and won the famous round where they traded knockdowns. He was 3 points going into the last round, and he fought back enough not to make it a 10-7 round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoyeah he defo lost the sturm fight cant remember who i had winning the ike fight tho?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBYes but theres also a flipside to that, i thought he lost to Ike Quartey, Felix Sturm. And just about scrapped a draw vs a past his prime Pernell Whitaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago
But then again there's no real shame in that. Well except obviously Felix Sturm because he isn't obviously on same level as other 2 names. But he's still pretty decent fighter and ODLH was in horrible shape for that fight, and he never belonged at Middleweight so we can excuse him that.
As for being a legend, yes of course he is a legend. He was one of the most recognized names in boxing in the 90's. He won an Olympic gold medal, aswell as winning titles in 6 different weightclasses, aswell as fighting the whos/who of boxing.
What else could he have done ?
think he got the gift with sturm fight cos he had the big fight with hopkins coming up?
So he won by 1 point on my scorecard, but the thing that is total bullshit. Is that even if ODLH wouldn't of knocked Ike Quartey down in the last round, he still would of won how BS is that honestly.
And yes he got the gift against Felix Sturm, because of the big pay day with B-Hop coming up. Still don't make it right though, but thats boxing for you. It can be an ugly sport at times.
....is there anyone who has even seen half of a boxing match that doesn't know his name. Hall of famer of course. His record and fights don't matter as much as what he's done for the sport as a whole.
Yeah just read Oscars book and he says he actually thought he lost the fight with Sturm and was in a way upset that he got the nod. Not many fighters will admit stuff like that so he gained some credit from at least me there anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBYes but theres also a flipside to that, i thought he lost to Ike Quartey, Felix Sturm. And just about scrapped a draw vs a past his prime Pernell Whitaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago
But then again there's no real shame in that. Well except obviously Felix Sturm because he isn't obviously on same level as other 2 names. But he's still pretty decent fighter and ODLH was in horrible shape for that fight, and he never belonged at Middleweight so we can excuse him that.
As for being a legend, yes of course he is a legend. He was one of the most recognized names in boxing in the 90's. He won an Olympic gold medal, aswell as winning titles in 6 different weightclasses, aswell as fighting the whos/who of boxing.
What else could he have done ?
As for being a legend I'd say yes easily. Look at his record, I think he only ever fought one fighter with a losing record and was a world champ after I think it was 12 fights. He won world titles at 6 weights and has been involved in some of the biggest PPV fights in history.
I suppose it depends on how deep you want to go with legends though, if you only reserve the word legend for the likes of Ali, Louis and Robinson then maybe not but Oscar is the most popular fighter since Leonard outside the HW's and has never ducked anybody and 20 years from now I think you will struggle to find a fighter who has fought more fellow hall of famers.
In short: NO
Without a shadow of a doubt he is a legend. It should not need explaining why
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Originally Posted by Pavlik
Simple as that. I really can't believe that this would even be discussed. Oscar's resume is one of the very best in boxing. A champion in six divisions (whether they were legit belts or not).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlik
Yes, well.... (ahem)... while these are (cough) certainly admirable qualities in a fighter, I would think they hardly qualify as "legend" material. Although yes... to the female fan base in general he probably IS a legend.
By the way... I hate... no, scratch that... i DESPISE how people constantly use money earnings as a measuring stick of a fighter's merit as a HOF'er, legend, cannonized saint... whatever. MANY things go into the money earning factor. And fighting ability, record, skill, and all the things that matter are only a relatively small piece of the pie when determining money-making ability. Press hype, personality, political powers within boxing organizations, promotional abilities, A COUNTRY'S HUNGER FOR A STAR OF ANY KIND AT A CERTAIN POINT IN TIME..... all these factors come into play also when money-making ability is being decided.
Oh wait... he's got a statue of himself somewhere in L.A. Scratch the above. The guy's a frigging LEGEND!!
like leon guerrero he is a legend.
There is absolutely no doubt that Oscar is a Legend of the sport. To argue it would be ignorant of his accomplishments and contributions to boxing.
Who has generated more revenue in boxing? Who has put on more HUGE PPV extravaganzas? More mega fights?
The guy was one of the greatest things to ever happen to boxing, and for all his charisma and good looks, he was a WARRIOR inside the ring and he had world-class skills. The guy is a legend for sure.
He is a legend without a doubt, the thing with Oscar is that eveyone has good memories if him, everyone loves him.
He lost some of his biggest fights that would have made him a true all time great, but the fact they were such big fights is a testament to just how much of a draw he had for fans.
He is a legend more for just being him than what he achieved.
I've liked him far less since he caught the promoters disease though and seems to be infected with the wanker and shit on you virus.
Damn... It only took one post in between this one and mine, to see the PPV and good looks arguments regurtitated once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
:vd:
Haha Tito take a pill. Tito Trinidad is a legend too...only because he got to share the ring with Oscar that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanDamn... It only took one post in between this one and mine, to see the PPV and good looks arguments regurtitated once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
:vd:
;)
I knew you'd come around.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAHaha Tito take a pill.Blah, blah, blah Tito Trinidad is a legend Blah, blah, blah too...only because he got to share the ring with Oscar that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanDamn... It only took one post in between this one and mine, to see the PPV and good looks arguments regurtitated once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
:vd:
;)
:cool:
Even though I voted no, I think he is.
Im surprised so many people throw the word legend around so easily.
I know Toney is a favorite fighter but why is Toney a legend and Oscar isn't? Oscar fought waaay more top flight opposition then Toney, I love Toney but no way would his name pop into my head before Oscar's when recalling fighters from their era. Oscar had so many more career defining fights, not to mention he feasted on much better competition between the big fights, it's not fair to classify Toney as a legend and not Oscar imo.
And Tito I'm sorry but the fact that he was a draw definitely means something, it means he had people talking and had the casual fan talking probably more then any fighter not named Tyson. That's a big deal, he's always going to be remembered more then great fighters who didn't have the same buzz as him, like Toney for example.
Plus he made good fights, he was very very rarely in a dull fight. Even against lesser opposition like Oba Carr, Darrel Coley, Arturo Gatti, John John Molina etc. he always provided really exciting fights. That has to count for the legend status because his fights were always an event.
I mean it's subjective, some people have 1000 legends and some have 20, but Oscar will be talked about as much as anyone from the era in 20-30 years and for me that qualifies as legendary. There is no right or wrong here because the term 'legendary' is subjective and not strictly defined.
He's a living legend now...
Here in LA and out in Asia, down under in Aus and up top in Greenland.
Actually if you took the time to read the actual post instead of just hilighting stuff out of context, I never used a "good looks" argument at all. What I insinuated was IN SPITE OF HIS GOOD LOOKS, he was a warrior in the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanDamn... It only took one post in between this one and mine, to see the PPV and good looks arguments regurtitated once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
:vd:
Why would a Tito fan be bitter at ODLH? Tito gained a world of stock with that DISGUSTING robbery of a victory he got over DLH.
Just having fun with the "good looking" argument. I know you're not using it as a reason why ODLH should be considered a legend. On a serious note, however, I'm not going to get into another Tito-DLH fight argument. Suffice it to say, as I've always said and maintain, that Tito got that "robbery" in DLH's backyard, with non-Puerto Rican judges, and a strictly pro-DLH crowd. While Tito got outboxed in most of the first rounds of the fight, for some inexplicable reason (I still maintain DLH had tasted Tito's right) he chose to run around like a chicken through the last 3 rounds and basically gave away the fight. And some objective fans here on the forum (I realize I'm not objective on this particular subject) had the fight close or even a draw after the 12 rounds. Too bad the matter never got resolved in a rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerActually if you took the time to read the actual post instead of just hilighting stuff out of context, I never used a "good looks" argument at all. What I insinuated was IN SPITE OF HIS GOOD LOOKS, he was a warrior in the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanDamn... It only took one post in between this one and mine, to see the PPV and good looks arguments regurtitated once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
:vd:
Why would a Tito fan be bitter at ODLH? Tito gained a world of stock with that DISGUSTING robbery of a victory he got over DLH.
I don't want to sidetracked the topic too much, but I scored it a draw after 12 for that fight. Oscar started running in the last half of the 9th, so I gave that round along with the last 3 to Tito, however from rounds 1-8 I had it 6-2 in favor of Oscar. His fans cannot call robbery when Oscar decided to get on his bike and hardly throw any punches starting from the last half of round 9 and onwards. That fight for all the hype it got never lived up to it, it was a massive disappointment for many boxing fans like myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanJust having fun with the "good looking" argument. I know you're not using it as a reason why ODLH should be considered a legend. On a serious note, however, I'm not going to get into another Tito-DLH fight argument. Suffice it to say, as I've always said and maintain, that Tito got that "robbery" in DLH's backyard, with non-Puerto Rican judges, and a strictly pro-DLH crowd. While Tito got outboxed in most of the first rounds of the fight, for some inexplicable reason (I still maintain DLH had tasted Tito's right) he chose to run around like a chicken through the last 3 rounds and basically gave away the fight. And some objective fans here on the forum (I realize I'm not objective on this particular subject) had the fight close or even a draw after the 12 rounds. Too bad the matter never got resolved in a rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerActually if you took the time to read the actual post instead of just hilighting stuff out of context, I never used a "good looks" argument at all. What I insinuated was IN SPITE OF HIS GOOD LOOKS, he was a warrior in the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanDamn... It only took one post in between this one and mine, to see the PPV and good looks arguments regurtitated once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
:vd:
Why would a Tito fan be bitter at ODLH? Tito gained a world of stock with that DISGUSTING robbery of a victory he got over DLH.
Now back on topic, yes Oscar is a legend in my eyes, as people have pointed out he's done a lot for the sport of boxing, it didn't matter or not if he won or lost the fight, it's just that his fights were events and kept boxing in the mainstream. I think HBO had it right when it said Oscar was the Latino version of Ray Leonard, although I have to add he lost more of his big fights than Ray did. He's not a legend like Ray, but he is a legend.
Oscar always strikes me as the David Beckham of boxing. A good fighter whose popularity transcended the sport.
Legend. He fought all-comers, something very rare in this sport and something other legends--Chavez, RJJ, PBF, PacMan--can't say. And he did it while possessing a popularity that could've enabled him to make considerable $$ while not doing so. Furthermore, no one dominated him in his prime, until Hopkins at MW.
People forget how dominant he was in the lightweight divisions, where his Hearns-like height and reach advantage gave him great leverage, enabling him to KO everyone except JJMolina…and that included Miguel Angel Gonzalez, Jesse James Leija, Genaro Hernandez, Rafael Ruelas, and Jorge Paez. Excellent names.
He then went on to became the first person to stop JCChavez (in brutal fashion) and the first to hand Sweet Pea a legitimate defeat, though to be fair, both were past their primes and Pernell put up an good fight. Nonetheless, these guys are legends and ODLH made history defeating them.
He then went on to defeat a red-hot –prime Quartey in dramatic fashion and outbox an also red-hot-prime Trinidad. He was the first person to expose Trinidad’s one-dimensionless and no matter how you judged the fight, it’s hard to say ODLH was truly defeated.
But that defeat and the 2 Mosley fights are why ODLH legend status remains in doubt. Switch the results around, and there would be no doubt. But the fact that we could easily switch the results (with the exception of the first Mosley fight, suggest that ODLH deserves legend status…since boxing subjective judging shouldn’t be taken as the final word. Furthermore, Mosley’s PED use should allow us to rank ODLH higher.
It may be a long time until we see another fighter who so willing and able to fight everyone.
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Originally Posted by Hulk
He has been on boxing's most memorable fights but he lost more of his biggest fight. I would love to watch his match against Tito, and his thrashing of Ricardo Mayorga.:)
6 divisions. Ho-hum. Damn Alexis Arguello coulda beaten him to that record if there were so many titles floating around in the late 70s early 80s and he took on the least dominant of the bunch instead of that bastard Aaron Pryor who threw a 100 punches a round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlik
If these 'firsts' down mean anything why the hell are Barrera, Morales and to a lesser extent Marquez so eager to the be the first Mexican to hold titles at 4-weights? Because it would be a first, you're guaranteed in the history books. If it was easy everyone would be doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jody Lane6 divisions. Ho-hum. Damn Alexis Arguello coulda beaten him to that record if there were so many titles floating around in the late 70s early 80s and he took on the least dominant of the bunch instead of that bastard Aaron Pryor who threw a 100 punches a round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlik
Amir Khan would probably say "No". So I am going to say yes.
Yep.