Vladimir Klitschko really this good or just bad contenders??

How do you feel about Klitschoko current Regine as the heavy weight champ? There has been alto of complaining about them, but to be frank, Ive seen very few who have actually made him work in the ring to retain the tittle.
Alot of the heavy division is filled with over weight, sub par talent, with little passion for the title. For a boxer to duke it out with the Klit bro, hes got the able to bob, weave, duck, tie up but be built like a Bull! The contender in my eyes must be anywhere from 5'11-6'3 at most, but really be able to land some bombs on the bros. its that simple. But with the bro being over 6'6 and lets keep it real, they do have some talent, and make no mistake, they are masters of technique and form.

Its an easy pay for both brothers. Are they fighting a safe fight? yes, Do I blame them ..NO. Hell I give you a few million bucks and a title, all you have to do is use that height and jab to your advantage and you can win, why not?

I feel bad in a lot of ways for the Klitschkos because they are TERRIBLY underated and underappreciated by todays boxing fans for the most part. These two are FANTASTIC HWs (particularily Wlad) with great skills to complement their sizes.

The boxing forums are always plagued with ignorant garbage like "well they are only good because they are tall". Well if being tall was all you needed how come Shaq doesn't pick up boxing? He would be the greatest of all time. The fact is you need the skill and the knowledge to put your physical gifts into practice, and both bros have an abundance of knowledge and skill. Its no different than Muhammad Ali using his superior speed and footwork to overwhelm opponents. Muhammad Ali had the knowledge and skill to put his physical gifts into practice, and thats why he was such a great fighter.

They've smashed virtually every contender you can think of for the last 15 years or so, and if you look at their resumes, even though you won't find a "Rocky Marciano" or "George Foreman" in there, they fought a ton of good, dangerous fighters. And not only are they beating the top contenders out there, they're FINISHING them.

Both will (or should, at least) go down as great HW champions. And I don't care what any of the "old school" boxing fans say, a guy with the skill and athletic ability of Wlad or Vitali gives any HW in the history of boxing trouble.

Also, I'd like to say its very easy for us to sit here and say "well this is how you beat a Klitschko", but its another thing to go in there and do it. They've fought a lot of different guys with a lot of different styles.

A mixture of bad contenders and Wlad's size and textbook style. Doesn't give much away but always has the physical advantage. Most opponents are too fat and out of shape to give him something to think about. He could struggle against somebody with fast lateral movement, but there isn't anyone who can give him that problem. The only two are Adamek and Haye, but neither are big enough to cause him too much trouble.

Wlad does everything correctly so in that respect he's a top fighter, but it's more down to weak competition and his physical advantages than his actual talent.

It's a fair question, and you can say it's a little from column A and a bit from column B.

What sticks out in my mind is how often vanquished fighters comment on how suprised they were at the speed of the brothers. You half expect them to be lumbering buffoons in there on account of their size, and sometimes they even LOOK like plodding behemoths in there, but you read time and again how opponents were suprised at how lithe the brother are in person.

Vitali has also developed this new quick hybrid left hook/jab of late that I think compensates for his fading speed, but he used it to great effect againt Albert in his last outing.

The heavyweight competition these days IS weak, but everyone being lined up against the brothers is getting smashed. What else can you ask for? Maybe they're not the blood and guts warriors that many of the smaller heavies HAD to be in generations past, but they dont HAVE to be. When youre that big, and that educated, and that experienced you just arent required to stand toe to toe and leave your soul in the ring.

Why isn't Lennox bashed for the same things I wonder? He used his height and jab very well, hardly ever got into ridiculous blood-feuds with opposition, and is regarded as one of the greatest of all time.


But it's not over yet, gang. We still have a potential Haye, Adamek, Valuev, and Peter showdown coming. Not HUGE names, but not insignificant either.

Ive been watching some of the Klit fights, Notiably the fight he had with Sultan last night on youtube. I found it interesting that Klit was phenomenally good at keeping his distance and not allowing his emotions get the better of him and want to tie him up or respond back with reckless style of fighting.
I loved how he was slapping the right hand down, the fight was controlled really by Klit jab, when he fought Sultan

Vladimir in particular seems to be built for this sport in more than one. I think the issue lays in the fact that there needs to be a contender that willing to go the distance. Because I honestly dont think we've seen what the Klit as capable of doing.

I think they get a bad rap (Wlad especially) for finding a rhythm and taking his time to dispatch of a fighter. I think HBO is fucking moronic for refusing to show Wlad-Povetkin or Wlad-Peter II. Wlad-Peter I was one of their top rated fights of the past few years (as was Vitali-Arreola) and guys like Ross Greenburg and Bert Sugar look like idiots when they say "No one cares about the heavyweights", "the heavyweights are boring", "Nobody can tell the brothers apart"....if that was the case I doubt Wlad and Vitali would be held in such high regard in Germany and the rest of Europe as well. A lot of the European based fans like to say "Americans don't like the Klitschko's just because they aren't American" and hell people said the same thing about Lennox Lewis but I never believed them until recently. I DO think a lot of guys like Sugar and Greenburg are a little sore that America has no reputable heavyweights that make the sport more popular or are easier to market.

I think history will treat the Klitschko's kindly, their records are very good, Wlad has fought anyone and everyone who is a danger in the division and after showing flaws in his style he has adapted to minimize his mistakes and really hasn't been bothered by anyone since the first Sam Peter fight.

I think it is amazing that a guy like Wladimir could have sunk so low in the division only to come back and be so dominant. There was a point in time where Wlad looked like he was going to be another Michael Grant, he was in a state of panic in the ring, he was unnerved by any retaliation and for him to come back from being so gunshy to be able to dominate any opponent that stepped in the ring with him is amazing, as most boxing fans know it usually works the other way, you don't usually go from having confidence, to losing it, to regaining it, typically once a fighter loses confidence they are finished.

That's the thing, they get slated because they bore everyone, but there haven't been many fights they've even tried their best in! They haven't needed to.

You can't knock when they've achieved. But they are not unbeatable now.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I think they get a bad rap (Wlad especially) for finding a rhythm and taking his time to dispatch of a fighter. I think HBO is fucking moronic for refusing to show Wlad-Povetkin or Wlad-Peter II. Wlad-Peter I was one of their top rated fights of the past few years (as was Vitali-Arreola) and guys like Ross Greenburg and Bert Sugar look like idiots when they say "No one cares about the heavyweights", "the heavyweights are boring", "Nobody can tell the brothers apart"....if that was the case I doubt Wlad and Vitali would be held in such high regard in Germany and the rest of Europe as well. A lot of the European based fans like to say "Americans don't like the Klitschko's just because they aren't American" and hell people said the same thing about Lennox Lewis but I never believed them until recently. I DO think a lot of guys like Sugar and Greenburg are a little sore that America has no reputable heavyweights that make the sport more popular or are easier to market.

I think history will treat the Klitschko's kindly, their records are very good, Wlad has fought anyone and everyone who is a danger in the division and after showing flaws in his style he has adapted to minimize his mistakes and really hasn't been bothered by anyone since the first Sam Peter fight.

I think it is amazing that a guy like Wladimir could have sunk so low in the division only to come back and be so dominant. There was a point in time where Wlad looked like he was going to be another Michael Grant, he was in a state of panic in the ring, he was unnerved by any retaliation and for him to come back from being so gunshy to be able to dominate any opponent that stepped in the ring with him is amazing, as most boxing fans know it usually works the other way, you don't usually go from having confidence, to losing it, to regaining it, typically once a fighter loses confidence they are finished.

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I say we blame the Jews. :p

No doubt about it they ate brilliant boxers, it's a real shame there just hadn't been more heavyweights with the courage, skills and stamina to give them a decent workout.

They have been up for fighting anyone, using the rankings for their fodder. They can't help but just beat what's around. But I do think better fighters are coming and they will be tested.


I dislike the Klitscho brothers a lot. Just can't stand them, not really sure why, they just irritate me. But where do we all stand if next year they beat Haye and Ademek? Who's next that could stop them for another 5 years?

Lennox Lewis didnt get any respect until he retired and he had the same style.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

I say we blame the Jews. :p

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I didn't know Bert Sugar was jewish.....doesn't really matter, but all he does is talk shit about them never gives them 1 ounce of respect and IMO that is one reason why boxing is doing poorly with fans. When the people that cover boxing talk nothing but shit then that's what the fans hear, it's what they are programed to see, and obviously it doesn't help the sport. Those guys don't have to exaggerate about the brothers but at least give them SOME respect. I think UFC is hands down better than boxing at this point in having people give credit where credit is due and guys like Joe Rogan (even though I think he's a douchebag) won't talk ill of most fighters and fights that they have.

Ross Greenburg has alienated an entire division and just in business practices I think that's a poor choice and a hasty choice.

IMO, I had to really sit down and watch both of these men fight and once I did and put aside my thoughts, I realized just how good they are.

it's a combination of wladimir being really good and his competition being really mediocre. but you can't blame the klitschko's for their bad competition. as long as they keep winning, there is nothing they can do about their lack of top caliber opponents.

however, if they were fighting in the 1970's, they would still be good but not as dominant. with muhammad ali, joe frazier, ken norton, ernie shavers, jerry quarry, george foreman, jimmy young, larry holmes and others, it would have been very difficult for the klit brothers to dominate. although because of their physical superiority, they might have won a world title at some point.

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Originally Posted by Hunter

Lennox Lewis didnt get any respect until he retired and he had the same style.

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Lewis did use the safety style in some fights but he still throw the right hand behind the jab which you can count on your hands how many times Wlad throws it even when his opponent has nothing left he still doesnt want to expose himself by throwing it.

Watch the destruction of Golota,Grant and Ruddock fights and say he had the same style as the Klitschkos.He wasnt always a safety first fighter.

I look back at previous heavyweights, and I struggle to find very many heavyweights over the history of the sport that would have been these two at their best.

I think they would have steam rolled Frazier, Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Louis, Foreman. I see absolutley no way how these guys could get in on guys taller and stronger than them with that kind of jab.

I don't think Holmes and Ali's moving on the outside styles would be super effective because at least Wlad who is always in balance would walk them down with his jab.

Norton might present problems for Wlad because he is awkward, but Vitali would destroy.

Honestly besides Lennox Lewis I can't think of a fighter who even in their prime I would give a better than 50/50 chance against these brothers.

I also find it insulting or ignorant to say Wlad hasn't fought quality opposition in the last little run Ibragimov, Chagaev, Peter(at the time), Byrd, Brock, Chambers, and the list goes on were all highly competent fighters. But Wlad has great timing and highly underrated speed, and I can't think of a punch in the history of the heavyweight division that landed more consistently than Wlad's jab, and that jab lands like most heavyweights crosses.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I look back at previous heavyweights, and I struggle to find very many heavyweights over the history of the sport that would have been these two at their best.

I think they would have steam rolled Frazier, Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Louis, Foreman. I see absolutley no way how these guys could get in on guys taller and stronger than them with that kind of jab.

I don't think Holmes and Ali's moving on the outside styles would be super effective because at least Wlad who is always in balance would walk them down with his jab.

Norton might present problems for Wlad because he is awkward, but Vitali would destroy.

Honestly besides Lennox Lewis I can't think of a fighter who even in their prime I would give a better than 50/50 chance against these brothers.

I also find it insulting or ignorant to say Wlad hasn't fought quality opposition in the last little run Ibragimov, Chagaev, Peter(at the time), Byrd, Brock, Chambers, and the list goes on were all highly competent fighters. But Wlad has great timing and highly underrated speed, and I can't think of a punch in the history of the heavyweight division that landed more consistently than Wlad's jab, and that jab lands like most heavyweights crosses.

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That's beautifully said. The brothers Klitschko are extremely underrated because they're not bloody messes at the end of their fights (when did you anti-Vitali fans start to MAYBE like Vitali? Why, after his bloody performance against Lennox!!) and you never seem them struggle life and death inside the ring.

Sadly their true worth won't be realized until long after they've retired i suspect.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I look back at previous heavyweights, and I struggle to find very many heavyweights over the history of the sport that would have been these two at their best.

I think they would have steam rolled Frazier, Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Louis, Foreman. I see absolutley no way how these guys could get in on guys taller and stronger than them with that kind of jab.

I don't think Holmes and Ali's moving on the outside styles would be super effective because at least Wlad who is always in balance would walk them down with his jab.

Norton might present problems for Wlad because he is awkward, but Vitali would destroy.

Honestly besides Lennox Lewis I can't think of a fighter who even in their prime I would give a better than 50/50 chance against these brothers.

I also find it insulting or ignorant to say Wlad hasn't fought quality opposition in the last little run Ibragimov, Chagaev, Peter(at the time), Byrd, Brock, Chambers, and the list goes on were all highly competent fighters. But Wlad has great timing and highly underrated speed, and I can't think of a punch in the history of the heavyweight division that landed more consistently than Wlad's jab, and that jab lands like most heavyweights crosses.

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Strong Post. And I agree with most of it. The skills of the Klitschkos are underrated.

I disagree with Lyle about HBO's business reasons for not airing every Klitschko fight. The truth is most casual fans of boxing are Latino and the heavyweight division, other than Arreola, lacks any recognizable Latinos. Recall HBO aired the Arreola heavyweight title fight with Vitali and the Arreola v. Adamek fight and for that matter, most recent Arreola fights. To get the casual fan to tune in and get your ratings up, you need either a Latino heavyweight or opponents that are more recognizable to the casual fan - Haye or Adamek (if he wins) v. the Klitschko's WILL be on HBO. Guaranteed. Two Russians just doesn't excited the American masses even if they happen to be the best heavyweights out there. But, that's no jab at the Klitschko's because they do their thing to perfection and can't be beat, it just means their wins may not make it to american tv.

Would I have tuned in to see the Povetkin fight? Of course.

And I have to agree with Hitman that Wlad needs to make his fights more exciting even if it means exposing himself to more danger if you want to see them on american television more often. It wouldn't hurt for him to knock his opponent out before the 7th round here and there and it's not like he can't do it. He dominates them.

Well I think Greenburg made his decision because #1 Recently Wlad has been fighting in Germany a lot and it fucks with the TV schedule and #2 If you're not going to show THE Heavyweight Champion then why bother with the division.

As for Bert Sugar I don't think he's ever had anything good to say about Wladimir

I think Wlad should start to open up earlier and more often, I think the hook off the jab is something that he needs to utilize more (and he will vs Peter as Sam doesn't throw a sharp right cross) and perhaps Wlaqd can put his punches together a bit more, the way he used to do. You know given the state of the division right now and his confidence there aren't too many fighters that would be dangerous for Wlad to fight in his old style....maybe Arreola, maybe Sam Peter, and some others with power or with a solid chin and a good workrate might trouble him but Wlad could go back to fighting in more of a crouch and not really have too much to worry about....and personally I think he should start to mix the two styles (Aggressive and Outside/Safety) during his fights....usually once the first right cross lands his opponents start looking for a way out.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Also, I'd like to say its very easy for us to sit here and say "well this is how you beat a Klitschko", but its another thing to go in there and do it. They've fought a lot of different guys with a lot of different styles.

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I agree 100% with you man!

Trust...hes that good!

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Originally Posted by Paradox

How do you feel about Klitschoko current Regine as the heavy weight champ? There has been alto of complaining about them, but to be frank, Ive seen very few who have actually made him work in the ring to retain the tittle.
Alot of the heavy division is filled with over weight, sub par talent, with little passion for the title. For a boxer to duke it out with the Klit bro, hes got the able to bob, weave, duck, tie up but be built like a Bull! The contender in my eyes must be anywhere from 5'11-6'3 at most, but really be able to land some bombs on the bros. its that simple. But with the bro being over 6'6 and lets keep it real, they do have some talent, and make no mistake, they are masters of technique and form.

Its an easy pay for both brothers. Are they fighting a safe fight? yes, Do I blame them ..NO. Hell I give you a few million bucks and a title, all you have to do is use that height and jab to your advantage and you can win, why not?

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Too boringly good..;D

Klitschko brothers are disrespected by some American fans (not by the true fans, a true boxing fan will have absolutely NO problem watching somebodie's ability to dominate the opponet with the JAB), But on the other hand Klitschkos don't really need to be recognized from the American fan base. Who cares if somebody in US knows them or not, Who cares if HBO airs their fights or not. They make a 60 000 soccer stadium Sold out and get 10 million $ per fight. Their accomplishments are recognized and they are respected as "One of the Greatest Heavyweight of all time" here in Europe. If you ask 10 seven years old kids, 7 of them will know who Klitschko is.

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Originally Posted by Balboa

It's a fair question, and you can say it's a little from column A and a bit from column B.

What sticks out in my mind is how often vanquished fighters comment on how suprised they were at the speed of the brothers. You half expect them to be lumbering buffoons in there on account of their size, and sometimes they even LOOK like plodding behemoths in there, but you read time and again how opponents were suprised at how lithe the brother are in person.

Vitali has also developed this new quick hybrid left hook/jab of late that I think compensates for his fading speed, but he used it to great effect againt Albert in his last outing.

The heavyweight competition these days IS weak, but everyone being lined up against the brothers is getting smashed. What else can you ask for? Maybe they're not the blood and guts warriors that many of the smaller heavies HAD to be in generations past, but they dont HAVE to be. When youre that big, and that educated, and that experienced you just arent required to stand toe to toe and leave your soul in the ring.

Why isn't Lennox bashed for the same things I wonder? He used his height and jab very well, hardly ever got into ridiculous blood-feuds with opposition, and is regarded as one of the greatest of all time.


But it's not over yet, gang. We still have a potential Haye, Adamek, Valuev, and Peter showdown coming. Not HUGE names, but not insignificant either.

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I for one, absolutely hated watching LLewis fight. Let it be known.

I agree on the other points about accepting that fighters are going to use their physical advantages, and they'd be foolish not to. It's really a shame when you get fights like Ibragamov v W Klit, though. How can you appreciate boxing with garbage like that?

In all honesty I was more disappointed in the way Wlad handled Rahman and Chagaev...I think he could have easily stopped them sooner.

The Ibragimov disaster was 100% on Sultan, he ran away from Wlad. I for one figured "Sultan stood toe to toe with Ray Austin, why not vs Wlad?" But apparently Sultan just tried to survive and that cause for an ugly fight.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I look back at previous heavyweights, and I struggle to find very many heavyweights over the history of the sport that would have been these two at their best.

I think they would have steam rolled Frazier, Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Louis, Foreman. I see absolutley no way how these guys could get in on guys taller and stronger than them with that kind of jab.

I don't think Holmes and Ali's moving on the outside styles would be super effective because at least Wlad who is always in balance would walk them down with his jab.

Norton might present problems for Wlad because he is awkward, but Vitali would destroy.

Honestly besides Lennox Lewis I can't think of a fighter who even in their prime I would give a better than 50/50 chance against these brothers.

I also find it insulting or ignorant to say Wlad hasn't fought quality opposition in the last little run Ibragimov, Chagaev, Peter(at the time), Byrd, Brock, Chambers, and the list goes on were all highly competent fighters. But Wlad has great timing and highly underrated speed, and I can't think of a punch in the history of the heavyweight division that landed more consistently than Wlad's jab, and that jab lands like most heavyweights crosses.

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Strong Post. And I agree with most of it. The skills of the Klitschkos are underrated.

I disagree with Lyle about HBO's business reasons for not airing every Klitschko fight. The truth is most casual fans of boxing are Latino and the heavyweight division, other than Arreola, lacks any recognizable Latinos. Recall HBO aired the Arreola heavyweight title fight with Vitali and the Arreola v. Adamek fight and for that matter, most recent Arreola fights. To get the casual fan to tune in and get your ratings up, you need either a Latino heavyweight or opponents that are more recognizable to the casual fan - Haye or Adamek (if he wins) v. the Klitschko's WILL be on HBO. Guaranteed. Two Russians just doesn't excited the American masses even if they happen to be the best heavyweights out there. But, that's no jab at the Klitschko's because they do their thing to perfection and can't be beat, it just means their wins may not make it to american tv.

Would I have tuned in to see the Povetkin fight? Of course.

And I have to agree with Hitman that Wlad needs to make his fights more exciting even if it means exposing himself to more danger if you want to see them on american television more often. It wouldn't hurt for him to knock his opponent out before the 7th round here and there and it's not like he can't do it. He dominates them.

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I'm confused. Latinos have never had a heavyweight champ outside of Ruiz. So there never was a heavyweight pool to begin with. The reason they were airing Arreolas fights is b/c he was KO MFers out left and right, wasting no time with it.

True the Klitschkos don't have any competition right now. But, I am 100% sure HBO would televise Wlad/Povetikin, Vitali/Haye or Adamek/Haye. The Klits are fighting as at least 5:1 favorites in every single fight. And they can't stop anyone. They just whittle them away. It takes so long for them to throw 250 punches (249 jabs).

I know two <Ukranians, not Russians> that could fight, and every single boxing fan would not pass it up, not even for PPV. MAYBE this is what bothers boxing fans the most and the brothers.

Wlad is that good and has built a good legacy.

BTW Lewis was in some thrilling fights against Mercer, Briggs, Grant, where he took chances.

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Originally Posted by Master

Wlad is that good and has built a good legacy.

BTW Lewis was in some thrilling fights against Mercer, Briggs, Grant, where he took chances.

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The Briggs fight was a great match...I think Briggs earned a knockdown that wasn't counted but I doubt it would have affected the outcome of the fight....it may have helped Lewis' legacy a touch since he ended up winning the fight and in all other cases once Lennox was down he was done. Great fight though.

Lennox took chances vs Vitali, I think that last round was a HUGE chance Lennox took, because I don't think he had any gas left in the tank and I think Vitali (although cut horribly and bleeding like a stuck pig) still had a little left...he had weathered the worst of it. Also a great fight.

I think they also suffer from this romanticized vision a lot of boxing fans have of eras gone by. Now I'm not disputing the fact that the 70s were the golden age for HW boxing, I just fail to see how guys like Shavers, Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Henry Cooper, Doug Jones, Terrell, Bugner, ECT ECT were any better than the guys Wlad or Vitali fought.

Rocky Marciano tee'd off on mostly punching bags with arms, with a few washed up greats sprinkled in there, but no one would dare to dispute his greatness.

I guess like some other posters alluded to, the Klits won't get their respect until after they're gone.

Beanflicker, all the guys you named had their spot in the limelight and honestly if you think of Sam Peter, Ruslan Chagaev, Lamon Brewster, Chris Byrd, etc they all had their day in the spotlight too. And what's lacking from comparing older fights vs more recent ones is the lack of context ie everyone knows when Ali fought George Foreman everyone thought Foreman was unbeatable due to what he did to Frazier and what Frazier did to Ali, but they didn't take into account the different styles just liek when people look at Wladimir Klitschko-Sam Peter I they don't realize that Wlad was at a career low and his career was on the line for that fight and that Sam Peter had looked amazing in his most recent fights leading up to the match vs Wlad. And it's not just that fight it's all fights in recent history, I mean hell look at Michael Dokes, he used to be a somebody and now you see him on somebody's record and they pay him no mind....Dokes was a pretty solid fighter!

As good as they are, I'll still look forward to the day Haye gets in the ring with one of them and knocks them out! ;);D

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Originally Posted by 0james0

As good as they are, I'll still look forward to the day Haye gets in the ring with one of them and knocks them out! ;);D

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....I like to dream too

Wladimir Klitschko is not great at all. He's not bad but any decent HW champ would KO him. The problem is there are no decent HW's around at the minute other than Haye and he just seems to be more at ease living the life of the champ rather than becoming it at the moment. If though you could put Wlad back into the 90's with Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and Lewis though I would 100% guarantee all 4 would KO him without too much trouble.

I think the interesting fights in that era would be Wlad against the likes of Bruno, Morrison and Ruddock. I think they would be hard fights to call, but against the elite of that era?? He would get mauled.

I can see Holyfield and Lewis being difficult for pretty much any all time great champion....Wlad wouldn't necessarily be a cake walk for Lewis given Lennox's propensity for starting slowly and unenthusiasticly.

As for Bowe I'm not so sure. To me he had great potential but other than Holyfield and Golota he never really tested himself vs the best of his era (namely Tyson and Lewis) and if Golota worked him over then I figure Wladimir could do even better.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by 0james0

As good as they are, I'll still look forward to the day Haye gets in the ring with one of them and knocks them out! ;);D

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....I like to dream too

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and there was me thinking we would disagree on the matter. I'm glad we are on the same wavelength and dreaming of a Haye KO! ;D

Well I mean dreaming in general, but sure Chicken Little and KO will be used in the same sentence if he ever fights Wlad but I doubt you'll enjoy the outcome

........but if he fights Vitali............................. :foruml10gc5:

All this time I thought he had a w in his first name.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I can see Holyfield and Lewis being difficult for pretty much any all time great champion....Wlad wouldn't necessarily be a cake walk for Lewis given Lennox's propensity for starting slowly and unenthusiasticly.

As for Bowe I'm not so sure. To me he had great potential but other than Holyfield and Golota he never really tested himself vs the best of his era (namely Tyson and Lewis) and if Golota worked him over then I figure Wladimir could do even better.

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So, Lyle, all said, where do you rate Wlad/Vitali of all-time heavyweights?

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Originally Posted by 0james0

........but if he fights Vitali............................. :foruml10gc5:

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Yup Vitali murders him