Did my boy JMM look ?
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Did my boy JMM look ?
Not great to be honest. Had it not been for the last few rounds you could say it was a dominant performance without any knockdowns but he clearly slowed when the pace wasnt that high. It allowed Diaz back into it and Marquez finished with a bloody nose and a swelled up face. It looked like he had boxed 20 rounds. Age caught up with him but for most of the fight he boxed well with Diaz doing exactly what Marquez wanted him to do - Stay in punching range without throwing any shots.
Khan will be rubbing his hands together after watching that. JMM has had a great career but the Pac fight he is chasing is a step too far. I think he won the previous two but this time he is too old and slow and it could be pretty brutal. After that Juan needs to consider which fights he takes now because he risks tainting his legacy if he fights the wrong guys for the wrong reasons.
I thought he looked good, but he looked a league under any of the big guys.
Roach will have seen many flaws that Khan or Pacman will be able to exploit.
You can see why Mayweather beat him so easily. I even think that if the same Malinaggi that turned up against Diaz fought Marquez he would win too.
I'd have to disagree. I thought he looked great (and I really wanted a KO of Diaz). But Diaz, to his credit, changed his tactics and probably made it harder for the counter-punching JMM to get the KO. And yes... JMM's face did look the worse for the wear (although if glove thumbs hadn't been eliminated already, I'd swear it looked like he'd been thumbed), but Diaz's face was not exactly unmarked either. I do agree that a Pacquaio fight is out of the question, but mostly because I don't think they'll ever meet at a weight acceptable to both at this point in time. Manny has moved on from 135, and JMM has no business anywhere else. And finally, you have to factor in JMM's age. I thought he did a remarkable job, considering he's over the 35-year old mark. But no one can outrun Father Time, and JMM probably has only a couple of fights left in him at that elite level.
He looked okay.
I wouldn't say he was shot or anything like that but he didn't appear to be firing on all cylinders. His accuracy wasn't so great because some of the time he was just throwing flurries instead of timing Diaz properly. To me that shows that the trigger finger is a little worn out.
Also, Diaz appeared to be very one-dimensional and one-handed and really should of been put to sleep.
Marquez was moving well and getting himself in all the right positions but it just wasn't vintage counter-punching.
Wow you guys are some tough critics...but hey most real boxing fans are. I don't know what people were expecting out of jm but damn for coming off a loss and in against a pretty tough dude in diaz ( i still remember when diaz was mowing through people) marquez looked pretty freakin good. The guy is ranked as one of boxings best pfp and he should be. For the flack marquez is getting i know diaz won't be even mentioned in the positive but i give props to him too. Diaz hung in there when and gave pretty good effort kinda. I know a lot of people wanted a ko but it's not like diaz was gettin taken out a whole lot before this. Good damn night in general really...
I thought he looked good all in all. Diaz wasn't so bad either. It was pretty entertaining.
I do think Marquez is still more than a match for anyone at 135 or 140.
I think Katsidis is in all sorts of trouble if he fights Marquez next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Really?
I think the opposite. After seeing the state of his face last night and he didn't even seem to get caught that much.
Katsidis hits hard and is aggressive, the only time JMM struggled last night was when he was under constant pressure, much like in their first fight. I think Katsidis would do that all night and knock him out half way through the fight.
Don't get me wrong JMM is still a very good fighter, I just don't think he has the strenght to mix it with the current best
Thanks for the input fellas, i'll rep everyone when i get around to it. Im downloading the fight now as we speak so i'll give you my thoughts later or tomorrow.
Marquez will counter Katisidis all night and stop him about 7 for me. lets not get carried away with Katsidis now cos he beat Kevin Mitchell, Kats for me would be totally outclssed.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Really?
I think the opposite. After seeing the state of his face last night and he didn't even seem to get caught that much.
Katsidis hits hard and is aggressive, the only time JMM struggled last night was when he was under constant pressure, much like in their first fight. I think Katsidis would do that all night and knock him out half way through the fight.
Don't get me wrong JMM is still a very good fighter, I just don't think he has the strenght to mix it with the current best
Not just his Mitchell fight, but his fights previous.
I don't think JMM is as good a counter puncher as he used to be, the accuracy isn't what it was.
Plus JMM vs Kat won't even happen, no pay, big risk. He'll fight Pac or Amir next I recon.
Then retire.
I don't know what you guys are on about to be honest, i just watched the fight. And i thought JMM fought a better fight in the rematch, his back never touched the ropes. He took the fight to Juan Diaz early on letting him know he's the boss.
On numerous times he rocked Juan Diaz, and he pretty much won almost every round. I don't know what else he could of done, Juan Diaz is no mug and to almost shut him out shows JMM still has it.
The only thing im worried about, is that JMM's face is getting busted up pretty quickly recently. I know the thumbing caused the swelling, but still if you see all his recent fights. He always getting busted up.
So thats slightly worrying, but other than that i thought it was a good/solid performance.
Good thing for Marquez that Katsidis really ain't that good. He's a B fighter who's lost every time he's stepped up (no Mitchell wasn't a step up). He can punch, yes. But you need a lot more than power to beat Marquez. A lot more. Katsidis doesn't have what it takes to beat Marquez. The fact that some think Katsidis could even be competitive against Marquez is down right foolish. He was barely competitive against Diaz who pretty much dominated him. Anybody with half a brain knows that should of been a UD loss for Katsidis.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Really?
I think the opposite. After seeing the state of his face last night and he didn't even seem to get caught that much.
Katsidis hits hard and is aggressive, the only time JMM struggled last night was when he was under constant pressure, much like in their first fight. I think Katsidis would do that all night and knock him out half way through the fight.
Don't get me wrong JMM is still a very good fighter, I just don't think he has the strenght to mix it with the current best
I don't want to take anything away from JMM, he fought brilliantly and outclassed a very good fighter. He deserved the win and looked good doing it.
I just fear for him for his next few fights, as good as he is, age is clearly catching up with him. His face marks and swells easier and his reactions and pop isn't like it was. I really think if he steps up another level he will get beat.
Then there are the B class fighters who would love to get a chance at him, but prob won't. But I really think someone like Katsidis will be the one to retire him. JMM is a league above him, a better fighter, but I think age will catch up with him overnight and we'll all be gutted to see him lose to someone we know he should have beat. There are too many examples for me to need to even give one. Sometimes the hunger in the challenger is too much
i thought he looked a bit rusty at first, but then just fell back into it, he dominated Diaz, IMO on paper it wasn't really even close, he stunned him with pretty much anything he landed flush and he pushed him back alot of the fight, Diaz started out ok and well wa alot more cautious than he was in the first fight, used his jab well and paced himself, but Marquez would LAND flurries of like 4 flush shots and then back up, remember he's been out for nearly a year, and he is 37, from what i saw last night he still spanks everyone at 135 lbs, including Katsidis, Guerrero, Soto, and even over Funeka (which i doubt will fight at that weight anymore), but honestly i think Khan would overwhelm him mainly just cause of reach, size, and youth, but hope Marquez would pick up the KO over him as well
Great technically but he seemed winded in the last 3 rounds, definitely the age is showing now.
Ild like to see JMM stay at lightweight and fight Katsidis, rather than give weight against Khan.
Yup maybe Khan will be using Marquez as another feather on his cap but it could also be Marquez' chance for a 4th div championships. Khan, Bradley, Alexander and Maidana are all tough tasks too deep of a division really but I believe Marquez has a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
And don't forget that Diaz is coming back from a loss to Paulie "I play with kittens in sparring" Malinagi. He's quick and all, but let's be honest, most of us would beat him up!
That's a massive black mark against any top fighter, the Diaz win doesn't confirm he can beat a top dog by any stretch. All the people being mentioned would also smash Diaz and Paulie.
I hope he doesn't get beat up soon (Marquez) so I do worry for him. He always has great fights so I'm looking forward to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
I actully thought Diaz last nite looked as good as he has for a longtime, he would beat all the oher 135 fighters for me. Katsidis has not got a hope in hell v Marquez he will be totally outclassed mate.
Maybe, but they wouldn't piss over Khan or Manny and they are the two most likely next fights for JMM.
I see Amir being a worse fight for him than Pac simply because of the cryptonite factor. Khans range and speed would be too much.
And yes Diaz did look sharp, but still.
What you think still drives Marquez? Why he still does what he does? HungerQuote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
He has hunger and desire coming out of his ass. But at some point soon he will come up against someone who wants it more and has the skills to do it.
I have loved him as a fighter, but I do think the end is near and it's not going to be pretty. He's still a world champ so you can't write him off, but I have a bad feeling for him.
Oh i agree. If Marquez continues on for an extended amount of time eventually some youngster will get him. But I see no way it could be Katsidis. Katsidis fights with hunger. I give him that. But his hunger couldn't match that of a faded Casamayor. It wouldn't match Marquez's eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
exactly, Katsidis is so damn hungry that he gets wreck less, then gets caught, same thing would happen against Marquez, Katsidis would get brutally stoppedQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOh i agree. If Marquez continues on for an extended amount of time eventually some youngster will get him. But I see no way it could be Katsidis. Katsidis fights with hunger. I give him that. But his hunger couldn't match that of a faded Casamayor. It wouldn't match Marquez's eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
Kevin bloody Mitchell was outboxing Katsidis lol, Till he decided to stand and trade, I cant see how this version of Marquez gets beat by a guy who has been found wanting everytime he has stepped it up.
I think he looked good against a younger opponent in Diaz..He still is a sure HALL OF FAMER..:)
Marquez face has been through alot, he's starting to get into Vasquez type perm damage. He has alot of scar tissue from those Paquiao fights, you can see the lines and how the face turns red real fast and cuts easy. Its not gonna be getting any easier for Marquez, father time is catching up to him.
Want to see a JMM fight with Katsidis though...:)
Am I the only one who through Juan Diaz was pretty horrible in that fight then ???
Tactically, he was all wrong for 10 rounds. It's not like he couldn't of done more.... He could of done a whole load more. He was easily dominated until he actually put the pressure on... and basically applied himself.
So by that I can't tell a whole load by Juan Manuel Marquez' performance except that he will be perfectly okay fighting guys who don't apply themselves ???
Juan Diaz got rocked plenty in the fight, if he would of pressured JMM like the first time. He would of been KO'ed within 7, JMM was finding Juan Diaz with the uppercut early. And Juan Diaz was probably shocked JMM was the aggressor from the opening bell.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
Juan Diaz was trying to box JMM, trying to use his quick handspeed and in and out movement. Like he did with Michael Katsidis, its just JMM is a better boxer and his handspeed was equally as fast.
I don't really know what you expected from Juan Diaz, he gave it all he got in the 1st fight. And he lost the war on the inside, so he rightfully changed his tactics trying to adjust.
So atleast he tried to come in with a good gameplan, but he just isn't on JMM's level Juan Diaz is a good fighter where as JMM is a great fighter.
Juan Diaz got rocked by Paulie Malignaggi ;D
I didn't really expect much from this fight TBH. You have to be realistic about things. Both as a fan and a s a fighter. (Surely?)
I doubt that Juan Diaz was realistic in his estimation of his chances. It seems like the only way he could of HOPED to of had a chance is if Juan Manuel Marquez had broken down as an athlete MORESO than Juan Diaz has lost his appetite for a fight.
IMO he paid for this 'guestiamtion' by way of an embarrassing loss.
Miguel Cotto got rocked by Paulie Malignaggi.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
Cotto's case was that he was weight drained, and in Diaz's case, well although Malignaggi is a pillow puncher at 140, remember his fights with the smaller Diaz were at 135 probably giving Malignaggi a bit more power although not muchQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBMiguel Cotto got rocked by Paulie Malignaggi.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
Yeah and went on to win the fight so what's you point :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBMiguel Cotto got rocked by Paulie Malignaggi.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
Cotto gave it his best and won. Diaz gave it his best and got knocked out ;D
I guess where there is no room for tactical improvement, the only factors that could contribute to a different outcome are changes in either physical or mental states.
IMO it was clear that Diaz was banking on now having a Mental & Physical advantage over Marquez due to the prolonged and embarrassing nature of Marquez' previous defeat at the hands of Floyd Mayeather along with the speculated wear and tear that was associated with his long career.
I don't think anyone really knew what Marquez was gonna look like in this fight and he showed that his is still a warrior and a smart fighter but IMO that's a bit too easily said when facing an opponent who isn't really prepared to assert themselves.
yea he was knocked out....by Marquez, the same guy who rocked Pacquiao plenty of times, Malignaggi beat him by UDQuote:
Originally Posted by J da BombaYeah and went on to win the fight so what's you point :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBMiguel Cotto got rocked by Paulie Malignaggi.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
Cotto gave it his best and won. Diaz gave it his best and got knocked out ;D
I guess where there is no room for tactical improvement, the only factors that could contribute to a different outcome are changes in either physical or mental states.
IMO it was clear that Diaz was banking on now having a Mental & Physical advantage over Marquez due to the prolonged and embarrassing nature of Marquez' previous defeat at the hands of Floyd Mayeather along with the speculated wear and tear that was associated with his long career.
I don't think anyone really knew what Marquez was gonna look like in this fight and he showed that his is still a warrior and a smart fighter but IMO that's a bit too easily said when facing an opponent who isn't really prepared to assert themselves.
My point is any fighter can be rocked, by any opponent no matter what there KO percantage is. For example Anthony Mundine was KO'ed by Sven Ottke, yet he went 12 rounds with a much hard puncher Mikkel Kessler. And hasn't been stopped since.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da BombaYeah and went on to win the fight so what's you point :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBMiguel Cotto got rocked by Paulie Malignaggi.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
Cotto gave it his best and won. Diaz gave it his best and got knocked out ;D
I guess where there is no room for tactical improvement, the only factors that could contribute to a different outcome are changes in either physical or mental states.
IMO it was clear that Diaz was banking on now having a Mental & Physical advantage over Marquez due to the prolonged and embarrassing nature of Marquez' previous defeat at the hands of Floyd Mayeather along with the speculated wear and tear that was associated with his long career.
I don't think anyone really knew what Marquez was gonna look like in this fight and he showed that his is still a warrior and a smart fighter but IMO that's a bit too easily said when facing an opponent who isn't really prepared to assert themselves.
I thought he looked just fine and was in control from start to finish.I actually like Diaz,nice kid and smart enough to look past boxing with secure future.He's a realist and was never anything special.Truth is he did what he had to do to stay on his feet and come out better for it this time,not flat on his back bruised and battered.He's a stepping stone now and guaranteed another big fight should he go on...flipside of the coin is he gave himself zero chance of winning.Who ever sent him in there pumping him up with thoughts of outboxing a ring general like JMM should have their head checked and be yanked from the corner.
Marquez knows the deal,the sun is setting and it's time to tune up a last hoorah.He wants Manny for redemption no matter the weight and I wouldn't dismiss it with all of the manuvering going on.He is too proud to become a name to tack on young guys resumes and I really hope he chooss carefully at 140.His skin is softened,the legs less fluid and the always under the radar career and boxing prowess has seen many battles but we should enjoy watching one of the more capable boxing minds in last couple of decades fondly as he walks through that final exit.He'll be missed.