Chavez Jr vs Cotto in the works?

More top rank stuff, i read this on fightnews

Top Rank is already planning the next move for Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. after his September 11th fight with Pavel Wolak. A world title shot against none other than Puerto Rican legend and current WBA super welterweight world champion Miguel Cotto looms on the horizon. That bout is penciled in for December 4th with Arlington, Texas and New York City being considered as possible fight locations.


I'm guessing Freddie will feel that since he beat Cotto before with Pacquiao that he'll be able to recreate that with Chavez.

Would be surprised if this happened, for now anyway. Pretty sure Roach said last month, after the Duddy fight, that he thinks JCC Jnr needs a couple more fights and more work in the gym before he is ready for a fighter of Miguel Cotto's calibre.

Would be an interesting match up, though.

i am absolutely convinced that chavez jr. beats cotto maybe by KO. why? cotto's punch resistance isn't the same after margarito got through with him. pacquiao proved this.

and no, margarito did not have loaded gloves vs. cotto because the nevada state athletic people have already said margarito was clean for that fight.

i also think chavez jr. is vastly improved and is just going to impose his will on cotto and make cotto back up the whole night. i seriously doubt cotto can hurt chavez jr. because jr. has a very good chin. as a pro, he's never even been hurt or wobbled.

like felix trinidad ruined fernando vargas, i believe the same is true that margarito ruined cotto!

Chavez was wobbled just the last time out by Duddy....and has been hurt various times before against the likes of Heinz and the rest of the tomato cans he's taken on, Cotto knocks him the fuck out in 5 lopsided rounds and then we see, Chavez vs Camacho Jr in 2011

i guess we'll have to see when the time comes!

This fight is very interesting to say the least. I'm going against the grain, I'm picking Chavez Jr. to beat Cotto.

Cotto would beat the brakes off chavez, i'd give the dad a better chance.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Chavez was wobbled just the last time out by Duddy....and has been hurt various times before against the likes of Heinz and the rest of the tomato cans he's taken on, Cotto knocks him the fuck out in 5 lopsided rounds and then we see, Chavez vs Camacho Jr in 2011

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Yeah... there's a VAST difference between Cotto's and Chavez Jr's careers. One is a battle-tested veteran, with plenty of fights against elite opposition. The other has been coddled since Day One, getting fed a bunch of bums so as to not suffer that dreaded first "L". Yes, Cotto is more worn and older than Junior. But he's now got Emanuel Steward in his corner, correcting the few deficiencies Cotto had. AND... Cotto's heart has always been that of a warrior. I'd have to say he'll take Junior apart piece by coddled piece.

Can't wait.
:)

forgot that emanuel steward was now the trainer of cotto's and that could play a big part in the fight. but how much more can an "old dog" like cotto learn? whereas chavez jr. is still young and could learn so much with someone like roach? just spectulating! in cotto's last fight, he showed he still had a vaunted offense but he has taken alot of punishment lately (foreman omitted) and he to me just seems to cut and bleed a little more nowadays.

the reason why i think chavez jr. might beat him is because here you have an example of a young lion going up to challenge an old grizzled lion. usually the young lion wins if the old one in damaged goods.

if chavez jr. does beat cotto i will not enjoy it as much cause like i've said, cotto is my current favorite puerto rican warrior. the man is humble and classy and an ultimate warrior.

Chavez Jr. hasn't learned much in the 50 or so fights he's had, even in the Duddy fight he was tagged plenty, and John Duddy doesn't have much power, at 154 Cotto beats Jr from one corner to the other, then stops him, violently, i don't think Jr. beats anyone of worth at 154 or 160, like i said watch for Camacho Jr Vs. Chavez Jr to happen 2011

alot of chavez jr. detractors seem to think that he's chopped liver or something. okay, so he hasn't fought the greatest of fighters but he's fought decent competition throughout his career. this isn't bad considering he had little to no amateur experience. on top of that, he's undefeated! it's not the kids fault his daddy is chavez sr. and his promoter arum, is trying to make alot of money for himself and chavez jr.!

the reason why i think he even has a chance to beat cotto is because he's naturally bigger, longer, fresher, he's improving and his career is ascending while i believe cotto's career, arguably, is slightly on a downward spiral.

not to mention that chavez jr. can punch. for all his difficiencies, his punching power is not one of them.

if cotto does beat chavez jr., he's going to definitely know he was in a fight. chavez jr. i believe is going to give a very spirited effort and might even pull off the upset.

I think some people feel Cotto is more worn out than he really is. True, he's taken some punishment, but what fighter at that level hasn't? (Well, besides PBF that is). I think he's still got some gas left in the tank. I thought he showed some good stuff against Foreman, and while Foreman's knee finally did him in, I still think Cotto would have handily won the fight anyway. But again... all questions will be answered come fight time.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

alot of chavez jr. detractors seem to think that he's chopped liver or something. okay, so he hasn't fought the greatest of fighters but he's fought decent competition throughout his career. this isn't bad considering he had little to no amateur experience. on top of that, he's undefeated! it's not the kids fault his daddy is chavez sr. and his promoter arum, is trying to make alot of money for himself and chavez jr.!

the reason why i think he even has a chance to beat cotto is because he's naturally bigger, longer, fresher, he's improving and his career is ascending while i believe cotto's career, arguably, is slightly on a downward spiral.

not to mention that chavez jr. can punch. for all his difficiencies, his punching power is not one of them.

if cotto does beat chavez jr., he's going to definitely know he was in a fight. chavez jr. i believe is going to give a very spirited effort and might even pull off the upset.

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yea he can blast out journeymen, and as for him being undefeated, yea he's undefeated on paper but really he should have losses against Vanda and the unknown Carlos Molina

I've never like junior, just hate the way he's been so protected through his career, kind decisions and weak opposition. Padded out record.

But he almost changed my opinion of him in his last fight.

If he does carry on improving though and if he puts some big name victims on his record, he could end up sneaking in as an ATG on record alone.

I think Cotto spanks him though, so I don't see this fight happening.

Miguel Cotto will destroy Chavez Jr, but i can't see this fight happening no way.

I thought Chavez jr was campaigning as a middleweight, If that's the case they (Toprank) should have just made Cotto-Margarito 2.

Something people seem to ignore about JCC Jr. is the fact that he was thrown in with the lions since day #1. JCC Jr has no typical 100+ amateur career, no Jr. Olympics experience, no Olympic experience, no golden glove experience, etc. Nothing. He laced the gloves on and thrown in the ring with professionals. JCC Jr. is pretty much an amateur with 41 fights getting in the ring with guys who have 2 or 3 times more experience than him. Still, people just don't seem to like him. If he didn't have the name "Julio Cesar Chavez Jr." maybe people would not see him as that bad. JCC Sr. went through a similar path and achieved admirable achievements and HOF status. Let's see how it goes with jr.

If, by any chance, he did beat Cotto, would people give him credit or think that Cotto was no good, damaged goods, too old, past his prime, etc?

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Originally Posted by Chino

Something people seem to ignore about JCC Jr. is the fact that he was thrown in with the lions since day #1. JCC Jr has no typical 100+ amateur career, no Jr. Olympics experience, no Olympic experience, no golden glove experience, etc. Nothing. He laced the gloves on and thrown in the ring with professionals. JCC Jr. is pretty much an amateur with 41 fights getting in the ring with guys who have 2 or 3 times more experience than him. Still, people just don't seem to like him. If he didn't have the name "Julio Cesar Chavez Jr." maybe people would not see him as that bad. JCC Sr. went through a similar path and achieved admirable achievements and HOF status. Let's see how it goes with jr.

If, by any chance, he did beat Cotto, would people give him credit or think that Cotto was no good, damaged goods, too old, past his prime, etc?

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difference is his dad was already stepping it up at this point, and once he stepped it up, he didn't jump back down (in quality of fighters he fought), Jr has yet to take a REAL challenge, and just cause he beat Duddy (who's a C level fighter, B at most) it doesn't mean he'll have any chance against a still world class Cotto

it seems to amaze me how terribly senior julio cesar chavez can be so underrated! the man did incredible things that might never be duplicated, ever! not only was he a great fighter, but he dominated almost everybody he ever fought. the only times he struggled and lost was late in his career when he was fighting opponents much younger than he, or when he, at an advanced age, was going up in weight!

what chavez sr. did is truly remarkable when you consider these facts:

- overall record: 107-6-2, 86 KO's
- 3 time division champion
- 26 years, 7 months as a pro
- 27 successful title defenses (all-time best)
- 89-0-1 75 KO's BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 3 time division champion BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 23 successful title defenses BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 9 years as world champion BEFORE suffering first career loss
- fought 15 years as a pro BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 31-4-2 22 KO's in title fights (37), (all-time best)
- 16 successful title defenses as jr. welterweight champion (all-time best)
- 15-4-2 vs. world champions (current or former)
- Fought 5 hall of famers (7 total fights)

anybody who doesn't think these accomplishments are truly remarkable is either hiding under a rock or truly dislikes him.

i believe he is probably between 12-15 on the all-time p4p list. many historians have him as high as 17 with a few have him in the top 10.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

it seems to amaze me how terribly senior julio cesar chavez can be so underrated! the man did incredible things that might never be duplicated, ever! not only was he a great fighter, but he dominated almost everybody he ever fought. the only times he struggled and lost was late in his career when he was fighting opponents much younger than he, or when he, at an advanced age, was going up in weight!

what chavez sr. did is truly remarkable when you consider these facts:

- overall record: 107-6-2, 86 KO's
- 3 time division champion
- 26 years, 7 months as a pro
- 27 successful title defenses (all-time best)
- 89-0-1 75 KO's BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 3 time division champion BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 23 successful title defenses BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 9 years as world champion BEFORE suffering first career loss
- fought 15 years as a pro BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 31-4-2 22 KO's in title fights (37), (all-time best)
- 16 successful title defenses as jr. welterweight champion (all-time best)
- 15-4-2 vs. world champions (current or former)
- Fought 5 hall of famers (7 total fights)

anybody who doesn't think these accomplishments are truly remarkable is either hiding under a rock or truly dislikes him.

i believe he is probably between 12-15 on the all-time p4p list. many historians have him as high as 17 with a few have him in the top 10.

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who's disputing Chavez Sr.'s accomplishments? no one, we're just saying that his sons are crap, and Whitaker wasn't a bigger guy, and wasn't younger yet he whipped that ass with ease

nobody has said on this site lately that chavez sr. is underrated but it has been said before. and as far as your comments go:

in 1993 when they fought, chavez was 31 years old, whitaker was 29 years old.

chavez sr. was 87-0, whitaker was 32-1. question: who had more wear and tear considering whitaker was a defensive genius and a pure boxer?

whitaker started his career at 134 (Lightweight) while chavez started at 120. who was the bigger man again?

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Chino

Something people seem to ignore about JCC Jr. is the fact that he was thrown in with the lions since day #1. JCC Jr has no typical 100+ amateur career, no Jr. Olympics experience, no Olympic experience, no golden glove experience, etc. Nothing. He laced the gloves on and thrown in the ring with professionals. JCC Jr. is pretty much an amateur with 41 fights getting in the ring with guys who have 2 or 3 times more experience than him. Still, people just don't seem to like him. If he didn't have the name "Julio Cesar Chavez Jr." maybe people would not see him as that bad. JCC Sr. went through a similar path and achieved admirable achievements and HOF status. Let's see how it goes with jr.

If, by any chance, he did beat Cotto, would people give him credit or think that Cotto was no good, damaged goods, too old, past his prime, etc?

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difference is his dad was already stepping it up at this point, and once he stepped it up, he didn't jump back down (in quality of fighters he fought), Jr has yet to take a REAL challenge, and just cause he beat Duddy (who's a C level fighter, B at most) it doesn't mean he'll have any chance against a still world class Cotto

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Actually, JCC Sr. was fighting for his first title until around his fight #45 or 50. I can remember the same comments back then "...he's fighting bunch of taxi drivers...he's no good...whenever he faces an elite fighter, he will lose..." and so on, still, he ended up being a Hall of Famer with lots of achievements.

You're right, Jr. has not faced top quality opposition but still lets not forget he's pretty much an amateur with around 40 fights facing guys with two or three times his experience. Duddy was his biggest challenge maybe but it doesn't mean much until he faces top quality opposition I suppose. If JCC Jr. ended up beating Cotto, I wonder if people would really give him credit for it or say that Cotto was damaged goods, not in his prime, old, etc.

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Chino

Something people seem to ignore about JCC Jr. is the fact that he was thrown in with the lions since day #1. JCC Jr has no typical 100+ amateur career, no Jr. Olympics experience, no Olympic experience, no golden glove experience, etc. Nothing. He laced the gloves on and thrown in the ring with professionals. JCC Jr. is pretty much an amateur with 41 fights getting in the ring with guys who have 2 or 3 times more experience than him. Still, people just don't seem to like him. If he didn't have the name "Julio Cesar Chavez Jr." maybe people would not see him as that bad. JCC Sr. went through a similar path and achieved admirable achievements and HOF status. Let's see how it goes with jr.

If, by any chance, he did beat Cotto, would people give him credit or think that Cotto was no good, damaged goods, too old, past his prime, etc?

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difference is his dad was already stepping it up at this point, and once he stepped it up, he didn't jump back down (in quality of fighters he fought), Jr has yet to take a REAL challenge, and just cause he beat Duddy (who's a C level fighter, B at most) it doesn't mean he'll have any chance against a still world class Cotto

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Actually, JCC Sr. was fighting for his first title until around his fight #45 or 50. I can remember the same comments back then "...he's fighting bunch of taxi drivers...he's no good...whenever he faces an elite fighter, he will lose..." and so on, still, he ended up being a Hall of Famer with lots of achievements.

You're right, Jr. has not faced top quality opposition but still lets not forget he's pretty much an amateur with around 40 fights facing guys with two or three times his experience. Duddy was his biggest challenge maybe but it doesn't mean much until he faces top quality opposition I suppose. If JCC Jr. ended up beating Cotto, I wonder if people would really give him credit for it or say that Cotto was damaged goods, not in his prime, old, etc.

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Wilfredo Vazquez Jr had no amateur experience, he started learning how to box at 21, and only chose to go pro because he was fired from his job, he went pro in 2006, only a year after first putting on gloves and being taught by his father, 4 years later he's already fought decent opposition, is a world champion after brutally beating the heavily touted Marvin Sonsona, and is already looking to unify, so whats the excuse?

sometimes other boxers mature faster than others? the fact that chavez sr. went 89-0-1 before losing his first pro fight and without an amateur career is very impressive indeed. and by the way, i wouldn't suggest comparing vazquez jr. to chavez sr. yet!

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

sometimes other boxers mature faster than others? The fact that chavez sr. Went 89-0-1 before losing his first pro fight and without an amateur career is very impressive indeed. And by the way, i wouldn't suggest comparing vazquez jr. To chavez sr. Yet!

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who the hell is talking about chavez sr.?!?!

I think Cotto KO's chavez in 9, but hell he may suprise me.

morales,

i brought up chavez sr. because you always tend to consider him overrated and that, my friend, is so asinine, it's incredible!

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

morales,

i brought up chavez sr. because you always tend to consider him overrated and that, my friend, is so asinine, it's incredible!

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where the hell have i said Chavez Sr is overrated, dude seriously you need to get your head checked, i said Julio Cesar Chavez JR is overrated and is spoon fed tomato cans and now people and given thousands of excuses as to why he hasn't fought anyone, get your facts straight and don't make shit up, Vazquez Jr was in the same boat as Chavez Jr and Omar Chavez, difference is he stepped up his competition and is now a world champion wanting to go forward with fighting the best unlike Jr, oh and he's done it in under 50 fights....

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

it seems to amaze me how terribly senior julio cesar chavez can be so underrated! the man did incredible things that might never be duplicated, ever! not only was he a great fighter, but he dominated almost everybody he ever fought. the only times he struggled and lost was late in his career when he was fighting opponents much younger than he, or when he, at an advanced age, was going up in weight!

what chavez sr. did is truly remarkable when you consider these facts:

- overall record: 107-6-2, 86 KO's
- 3 time division champion
- 26 years, 7 months as a pro
- 27 successful title defenses (all-time best)
- 89-0-1 75 KO's BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 3 time division champion BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 23 successful title defenses BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 9 years as world champion BEFORE suffering first career loss
- fought 15 years as a pro BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 31-4-2 22 KO's in title fights (37), (all-time best)
- 16 successful title defenses as jr. welterweight champion (all-time best)
- 15-4-2 vs. world champions (current or former)
- Fought 5 hall of famers (7 total fights)

anybody who doesn't think these accomplishments are truly remarkable is either hiding under a rock or truly dislikes him.

i believe he is probably between 12-15 on the all-time p4p list. many historians have him as high as 17 with a few have him in the top 10.

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JCC is an all-time great, I don't think anyone disputes that. However, I've always contended that his record is misleading. His first opponent with a decent W-L record was in his 45th fight.... 45th frigging fight! That's pretty disgraceful by today's standards. When he won his 44th fight, against a "terror" with a 1-6 record, his opponents' cumulative record stood at a paltry 205-216-20, a measly 46% winning percentage. Incredible, but true. At the twilight of his career, his desire to get to 100 wins was so damn obvious, it affected his whole outlook on boxing. He was less than graceful on his first defeat... and he went back to fighting less than stellar opposition to ensure he'd reach his beloved goal. Obviously, he's groomed Junior to follow in his footsteps. Like daddy, like son.

Attachment 1719Well...

Chavez midway in the fight

http://www.nytstore.com/ViewLargeIma...sas%20-%201928