Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
I mean JCC obviously shortened his career with that beating, but i don't think he was totally ruined straight after that fight like everyone makes out. He had a very good performance against Aaron Davis, who was fresh off KO'ing Mark Breland in a great fight.
He also beat a good underrated fighter in Glenwood Brown, who at that time was known as a pretty respectful hitter. He floored Meldrick Taylor twice, but Meldrick Taylor fought back hard winning a majority of the rounds in a good performance.
It seems like to me that when he met the bigger/stronger Terry Norris, it all went down from there. And Terry Norris basically finished him as an elite fighter, because he looked bad vs Crisanto Epsana straight after the Terry Norris fight. And never beat anyone worth noting again.
But whats your thoughts ?
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I mean JCC obviously shortened his career with that beating, but i don't think he was totally ruined straight after that fight like everyone makes out. He had a very good performance against Aaron Davis, who was fresh off KO'ing Mark Breland in a great fight.
He also beat a good underrated fighter in Glenwood Brown, who at that time was known as a pretty respectful hitter. He floored Meldrick Taylor twice, but Meldrick Taylor fought back hard winning a majority of the rounds in a good performance.
It seems like to me that when he met the bigger/stronger Terry Norris, it all went down from there. And Terry Norris basically finished him as an elite fighter, because he looked bad vs Crisanto Epsana straight after the Terry Norris fight. And never beat anyone worth noting again.
But whats your thoughts ?
i agree, he looked completely shot in the Chavez rematch, but i do think that the first loss to Chavez took a lot out of him
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Yes the fight with JCC took a hell of alot outta Taylor and Norris finished off what was left.....really sad to see because if he had beaten Chavez he could have taken a different path...but u can't change anything and what will be will bemm shame
Job Biscuit (Norris was one hell of a fighter...hurtfull mutherfocker)!!!!
eh eh!!!
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otley
Yes the fight with JCC took a hell of alot outta Taylor and Norris finished off what was left.....really sad to see because if he had beaten Chavez he could have taken a different path...but u can't change anything and what will be will bemm shame
Job Biscuit (Norris was one hell of a fighter...hurtfull mutherfocker)!!!!
eh eh!!!
Even if had beaten JCC i don't think it would of changed his career, but it would of been better for his mental state.
But you guys should check out his fights vs Brown, Davis, very good performances.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pacstraightleft
No. Ref Steele did.
By not helping to make it to the end of the round based on the time :confused:
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Ive always thought it a little hasty to label him 'done' after that war but yeh...he fought a heart fight and it was very taxing on longevity overall. Taylors style was speed,movement,speed and he was a short lived phenom at it. Some of the fastest hands you will ever see regardless of era. He came back after Chavez vs Primo Ramos in rematch and early was taking some clean left hooks and was even snapped by rugged Ramos's jab more than once. Once he hit mid fight in 5th,6th and on you could see the bursts come back...hit and move,repeat. Ramos was always rugged and nailed him extremely badly in the balls for time out but Taylor sucked it up and went back out,pissed off very much and nailed Ramos with big shots and almost seemed the turning point of fight.
Full respect for Davis win and Taylor commanded it. Davis was always troubled by speed but I think he was always juuuust a bit under appreciated as far as solid skills go. Stick and move owned the night for Taylor. That Breland brawl undoubably taxed Davis likewise but Taylor was fluid in there though not overly spectacular. Think sometimes the weight rise for Taylor gets overlooked. Brown was a very good hitter but could be out hustled and out sped too as Mo Blocker had shown in a fight which the scorecards were generous in. Its been a long time but I thought Taylor fought Browns fight in spots and had him only winning up by two points at fights end. It was a solid back and forth rough one and not wise to take Norris as next up for Meldrick...you could see writing on wall going into that fight. He didnt belong there,with that Norris, on that night. A name vs name fight I thought at time. Gangly freak of an long hitter Espana just finished a spent Taylor after that. He was spent totally going into Chavez rematch and that was more about Chavez seeking 100 and 'redemption' vs a rival than a realistic rematch I really believe...see Randall 3 :-X
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
YES he did!!!!! Man he was pissing blood after the fight, and his face was fractured severely. He never looked anywhere near top form again...
Tito v Vargas, Margo v Cotto, are two more fights that remind me of that but less severe...
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
He didn't do him any favors but ruined is a bit strong, I'd agree.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Meldrick Taylor ruined Meldrick Taylor.....he was a very fast fisted, quick and slick boxer puncher but since he fought out of Philadelphia he wanted to brawl and he tried his hand at it and it shortened his career making him THE stereotypical "Philadelphia Fighter" meaning he was better in the gym than on fight night. Taylor should have been a slick boxer witht he ability to throw punches in bunches while avoiding punches in return.....but his pride got the best of him.
This is why you can't randomly hate on guys who do decide it's best if they use a bit more defense, a bit more caution in boxing...not everyone is a face first brawler
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
The loss to Chavez in 1990 took something out of Taylor, but it didn't completely ruin him as a formidable fighter. He still was good enough to move up in weight a year later and beat undefeated WBA champ Aaron Davis.
Really, I don't see the loss to Chavez affecting Taylor's career that much in terms of longevity and success. What happens if ends up winning the fight? He still has problems making 140 (Taylor detailed them in an issue of Sports Illustrated after the Davis fight, I recommend doing a sivault search as it was a good read), and judging by his stocky frame, it's not hard to picture. He did make 140 years later to rematch Chavez, but that was probably a desperate attempt to get a big fight/payday and revenge and he was more suited for WW at that point.
While Taylor's frame had grown to a welterweight, his power didn't. Neither did his height or arm length. Welterweight was loaded then, or about to become loaded. Stable Pernell Whitaker was about to go to WW. Felix Trinidad became a champion in 1993. Ike Quartey rose to the scene a year later. Cristano Espana always would've given Taylor hell due to his style, and dimensions (or Taylor's lackthereof). Taylor was too brawl-happy for his own good and took too many shots. Not only in prize fights, but does anyone NOT picture Taylor being a Philly gym war kind of guy?
Team Taylor was obviously not the type to protect Taylor. They had a young Taylor fight Buddy McGirt, and Chavez, who had a gigantic edge in experience on TNT. Taylor would've gotten beaten, and most likely beaten up, sooner or later at WW, win or lose against Chavez, or even without a Chavez fight. I also think Team Taylor shamelessly cashed out on Taylor in 1992 following the win over Glenwood Brown. Taylor had already showed signs of decline, and being too devoid of size and power at welterweight. He showed mettle in rising from 2 KDs to beat Brown, but what about the way he reacted to a lot of those shots? Not exactly what you'd hope for. So then they have him go up AGAIN in weight, at 150.5, to fight Terry Norris?
I've always taken issue with Lou Duva, not only for giving those instructions before round 12 against Chavez, but for taking that fight with Norris.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
JCC did ruin him, Taylor edged Davis who had just come off a war against Breland and the real beat put him down twice, so the righting was on the wall. Moving him up to get crucified by Norris did not help. Also remember Crisanto Espana finishing him off later after Chavez. That is a lot of wars. Taylor was the fastest fighter i ever saw.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I mean JCC obviously shortened his career with that beating, but i don't think he was totally ruined straight after that fight like everyone makes out. He had a very good performance against Aaron Davis, who was fresh off KO'ing Mark Breland in a great fight.
He also beat a good underrated fighter in Glenwood Brown, who at that time was known as a pretty respectful hitter. He floored Meldrick Taylor twice, but Meldrick Taylor fought back hard winning a majority of the rounds in a good performance.
It seems like to me that when he met the bigger/stronger Terry Norris, it all went down from there. And Terry Norris basically finished him as an elite fighter, because he looked bad vs Crisanto Epsana straight after the Terry Norris fight. And never beat anyone worth noting again.
But whats your thoughts ?
In my opinion, yes.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
The answer to that question is YES. I remember seeing him outside of a night club in Philly called The Ritz on South street about 3 months after that fight. He didnt seem the same. He was wearing a suit that looked like it was 3 sizes to big. Very sloppy looking. Hunched over. I dont even think he was drinking but he looked bad. I just shook his hand and keep it moving. Chavez did something to him mentally as well as the ass kicking. He broke his spirit. I seen the same thing in Bryant Brannan after the Roy Jones KO in 1996.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
What if he had won the fight would his career have been different.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
What if he had won the fight would his career have been different.
He may not have been looked at as such a tragic figure but I doubt his career would have flourished after the JCC fight because that fight took a lot out of him...obviously.
I think Taylor chose the wrong style to fight with and it cost him big time. If he used more of a Ray Leonard style or even a Pernell Whittaker style (and he had the skill set to do either) he would have had a longer more successful career.
That being said Meldrick Taylor is the epitome of a Philadelphia fighter, someone who's a beast of a fighter in the gym but couldn't hack it in the big fight. He had plenty of tools to be a Hall of Fame fighter, but he didn't use them properly and I blame him and more importantly his trainers and handlers because they allowed or advised him to fight in such a manner.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
I really don't think Taylor was missing being the second coming of Leonard simply by him choosing not to box and box some more....which he did plenty of and was not always this throw caution to the wind mini slugger from Philly living on heart?! His win over McGirt was a masterpiece. Don't think it would have mattered in any fight of his career save for the Chavez fight if he stuck and moved his azz off. Even there he would have soaked up body damage and may have known he had to sit in to keep respect and blunt that infamous JCC attack on Fleet movers. He was bulky and lacked pop. Short handspeed was key. The epitome of a Philly fighter is a guy who couldn't hack in in the big fight? Wow!
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
The gym wars are of the ages but Philly producing only brawlers void of slickness is bit of a over repeated stereo type yeh. Along the lines of fighters from Mexico being tremendous body punchers who couldn't box etc. Harold Johnson, Jeff Chandler as slick as they came. Chandler was one of the best fighters in divisions history. Saad was a capable boxer gone brawler who had great deal of huge fight nights I'd say. And don't even dis zahir Raheem like that ;D
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
The gym wars are of the ages but Philly producing only brawlers void of slickness is bit of a over repeated stereo type yeh. Along the lines of fighters from Mexico being tremendous body punchers who couldn't box etc. Harold Johnson, Jeff Chandler as slick as they came. Chandler was one of the best fighters in divisions history. Saad was a capable boxer gone brawler who had great deal of huge fight nights I'd say. And don't even dis zahir Raheem like that ;D
Blame Joe Frazier and Rocky Balboa
;D Yeh. I'm betting Marvis still blames Frazier too.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I mean JCC obviously shortened his career with that beating, but i don't think he was totally ruined straight after that fight like everyone makes out. He had a very good performance against Aaron Davis, who was fresh off KO'ing Mark Breland in a great fight.
He also beat a good underrated fighter in Glenwood Brown, who at that time was known as a pretty respectful hitter. He floored Meldrick Taylor twice, but Meldrick Taylor fought back hard winning a majority of the rounds in a good performance.
It seems like to me that when he met the bigger/stronger Terry Norris, it all went down from there. And Terry Norris basically finished him as an elite fighter, because he looked bad vs Crisanto Epsana straight after the Terry Norris fight. And never beat anyone worth noting again.
But whats your thoughts ?
I think some fighters are destined for long careers and some are not. I think it is a toughness deal. Guys like Duran are destined to fight til they are almost 50 and some due to their assets should be gone by the time they are 30 (i.e. they rely on speed and reflexes). Taylor was one destined to quit early.
Re: Did JCC Really Ruin Meldrick Taylor ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
The gym wars are of the ages but Philly producing only brawlers void of slickness is bit of a over repeated stereo type yeh. Along the lines of fighters from Mexico being tremendous body punchers who couldn't box etc. Harold Johnson, Jeff Chandler as slick as they came. Chandler was one of the best fighters in divisions history. Saad was a capable boxer gone brawler who had great deal of huge fight nights I'd say. And don't even dis zahir Raheem like that ;D
Blame Joe Frazier and Rocky Balboa
;D Yeh. I'm betting Marvis still blames Frazier too.
Another very good slick boxer that had that face first style pushed on him....Marvis was good....never good enough to beat Holmes or Tyson but good none the less.
