Wlad made an offer to Toney, but the IBF have refused to sanction it as Toney has been inactive to long. Toney has just been saved from a brutal beating, looks like Wlad is trying to fight anyone which is no fault of his own might aswell keep busy.
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Wlad made an offer to Toney, but the IBF have refused to sanction it as Toney has been inactive to long. Toney has just been saved from a brutal beating, looks like Wlad is trying to fight anyone which is no fault of his own might aswell keep busy.
how come neither klit has ever fough valuev?
Well right now Valuev is recovering from surgery...but in history Sauerland and more recently Don King have tried to protect their fighter and have priced him out of plenty of fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
As some may recall, when Chicken Little bailed on Wlad and when Valuev refused to fight Chagaev the FIRST person the Klitschko camp called to make a fight was Valuev and he declined because he had trained to fight Chagaev as opposed to fighting Wladimir (but Wladimir had trained to fight Chicken Little).
Valuev would be a good opponent for Wladimir, one of the few that's bigger than Wlad too. Valuev would get KO'd no doubt about it!
James Toney :vd: ....I remember people said he would beat both Wlad and Vitali EASILY....Wlad would have toyed with Toney it would have been James' 1st KO loss. I wouldn't be surprised if they call Holyfield next.
I don't care what anyone says, it's still a fight I wouldn't mind seeing. It should have happened a few years ago really and I guess Toney has shown his commitment to boxing by not fighting since Greer and going into that horrid floor humping carry on. But regardless, even at 42, I bet Toney could go the distance with Wlad. At 36 and in the right shape, I would even give him a shot at beating Wlad.
I wonder if they would sanction a fight against Holyfield?
HAHAHA toney, a guy that hasnt been in a boxing ring for ages, is fat, well past his best and got beat in 3 minutes in a ufc fight.
Way to go wlad. Way to go!
I would have loved to see this fight 4 or 5 years ago. Toney is way too shot now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Absolutely, 5 years ago Toney would have given either brother a good go. That's probably why wlad wants to fight him now.
#1 Unlike Audley, Toney was at one point a World Class heavyweightQuote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
#2 James Toney is apparently WILLING to fight Wlad
#3 Boxing isn't MMA and vice versa
#4 No fight has been signed yet, so put a lid on it HF, especially since YOUR BOY is fighting a horrible heavyweight.
If Wlad cannot fight a credfivle opponent for December give it a miss until he can he looks desperate at this rate.
oh how i wish vitali and wladimir weren't Brothers :(
I think Holyfield may be next too.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell right now Valuev is recovering from surgery...but in history Sauerland and more recently Don King have tried to protect their fighter and have priced him out of plenty of fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
As some may recall, when Chicken Little bailed on Wlad and when Valuev refused to fight Chagaev the FIRST person the Klitschko camp called to make a fight was Valuev and he declined because he had trained to fight Chagaev as opposed to fighting Wladimir (but Wladimir had trained to fight Chicken Little).
Valuev would be a good opponent for Wladimir, one of the few that's bigger than Wlad too. Valuev would get KO'd no doubt about it!
James Toney :vd: ....I remember people said he would beat both Wlad and Vitali EASILY....Wlad would have toyed with Toney it would have been James' 1st KO loss. I wouldn't be surprised if they call Holyfield next.
As for Toney I wouldn't have minded seeing it after the disgraceful shape he went into the UFC supposedly representing boxing. I've heard people (in the MMA world) say it was the best shape he had been in for years and that he had trained properly for the first time in years etc. What a crock of shit he was a total mess and went for the easy payday of $1 million without even having to do any training. I would like to see him fight Wlad just for the painful beating he would have received. I mean lets be fair, the last time he had a semi meaningful fight he was beaten by a fat Sam Peter. The man is a fucking joke and a shadow of the man that was one of the p4p best fighters in the world.
Nah mate, not a chance. He did what he did to Holyfield because Evanders Shoulder was badly injured. Even though he was waaaaay past his best if that had been a genuinely in shape Evander Toney would have got it handed to him big time. Wlad now would destroy any version of Toney, he is naturally too big for any 5'9 MW who's added 80lbs of fat to his body no matter how good a p4p fighter he was. This fight would be like Wlad fighting Hopkins if Hopkins added a shit load of fat and weighed around 230lbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
This is gonna sound desperate and sad maybe, but I think Toney has as good a chance as anyone to upset Wlad. Yeah he is horribly out of shape right now, but he has the technical ability to get inside and do work. He knows all the tricks in the book, and will probably have some tricks up his sleeve for the inside fighting(headbutts, hold and hit, etc). If he could just get into some kind of decent shape I'd give him a shot. IBF is full of shit on this one IMO.
I have a feeling that even at his best, Toney would possibly be too small to beat the Klitschkos.
The same way I think Adamek is too small. I think skill can only get one so far.
Wlad and Manny are trying to make up for lost time because he missed out on some time due to surgery last year. Manny is trying to liven up Wlad's style and there's no reason not to...given the competition out there right now he could have just kept his old style and been a dominant champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell right now Valuev is recovering from surgery...but in history Sauerland and more recently Don King have tried to protect their fighter and have priced him out of plenty of fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
As some may recall, when Chicken Little bailed on Wlad and when Valuev refused to fight Chagaev the FIRST person the Klitschko camp called to make a fight was Valuev and he declined because he had trained to fight Chagaev as opposed to fighting Wladimir (but Wladimir had trained to fight Chicken Little).
Valuev would be a good opponent for Wladimir, one of the few that's bigger than Wlad too. Valuev would get KO'd no doubt about it!
James Toney :vd: ....I remember people said he would beat both Wlad and Vitali EASILY....Wlad would have toyed with Toney it would have been James' 1st KO loss. I wouldn't be surprised if they call Holyfield next.
It was 5 years ago. And it wouldn't have been easy, especially with the height and size disparity, but James Toney could have beaten the brothers yes. He had a good chance, with his VASTLY superior boxing skills.
JFAT Alliance 4 Life.
:cool:
My gut instinct to this was that the IBF are absolutely correct not to sanction such a travesty as this fight, but the fact that it is even being mooted is a testament to the trash of the top division at the moment. Looking at a list of credible opponents for the Klitschko's at the moment makes for a very short list.
Don't think this should be made, but unless they ship Klitschko I and II off to a division of their own, then it could well be this way until they retire. Haye v Harrison has shown that Haye probably isn't ambitious enough to put his money-making potential on the line, so the mundane plod of mediocre opponents to German rings looks set to continue.
Wlad's December fight is just going to be a glorified sparring match anyway...he can't face an "interesting" opponent because they either #1. Won't fight him or #2. Already have other plans. Wlad's going to get A fight, it won't be interesting in the sense of "Wow I wonder who's going to win this fight?" but it'll be interesting to see the strategy used to defeat his next few opponents...will it be boxing from distance or will he take more chances? IMO he took chances a lot earlier with Sam Peter, showed off more of his arsenal and did very well until he sort of slowed his punch output and it took a while for him to get it in gear again.
IMO no matter how the fight is going, Manny should say "Get him out of here!" around the 3rd or 4th round in every single fight from now on.
If Toney wants to get serious about his inactivity then why not get a quick fight set up for the end of October against a bum and then another tune up against someone in the top 10 by the close this or start of the new year. Bang, he is able to get a big fight.
Toney just seems unwilling to do any of the leg work. He fought Greer and then buggered off again. He should have followed that up with a decent fight. Toney only has himself to blame for not commiting himself entirely to boxing at this late stage.
There is the small window that I have suggested, if Toney can't do that, then he needs to retire. The big fights just won't fall into his hands at this stage.
I'd actually give Roy Jones more chance than Toney right now. Maybe thats why he's really pulled from his fight???
Now that really is silly talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Toney has never looked like being knocked out before and can take flush shots off of heavyweights. Wlad has been down more against Peter than Toney and it's not as though Toney wasn't being clubbed on the back of the head too.
Roy Jones Jr can't take a clean shot in more fights than not these days and we are suggesting he would do better against Wlad than Toney? No chance. First time Wlad lands big and Jones is in trouble. Toney always has his smarts, Jones never really had them.
Jones has never really proven he can hang at HW IMO, Toney even with a belly has always hung in there and at the start looked really promising.
The only way to beat Wlad is not to be hit off him. Roy was always the master of not being hit. Believe me now if Wlad hits Toney he is gone. Now I know Roy doesn't have the elusiveness he once did but HW's are slower and he might just make it interesting until he was caught up to (which is inevitable by the way). I'm under no illusion that Roy would beat Wlad, he is way way past it, BUT Toney would be a punching bag for Wlad and that is a fact. Roy would at least try and be elusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesNow that really is silly talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Toney has never looked like being knocked out before and can take flush shots off of heavyweights. Wlad has been down more against Peter than Toney and it's not as though Toney wasn't being clubbed on the back of the head too.
Roy Jones Jr can't take a clean shot in more fights than not these days and we are suggesting he would do better against Wlad than Toney? No chance. First time Wlad lands big and Jones is in trouble. Toney always has his smarts, Jones never really had them.
Jones has never really proven he can hang at HW IMO, Toney even with a belly has always hung in there and at the start looked really promising.
Jones in recent years has lost his legs. He spent half the fight doing nothing on the ropes against Hopkins. As soon as he starts doing that against Wlad then he is screwed. Jones doesn't have smarts, he just keeps his gloves up without throwing anything or even moving his upper body all that much. I see it as being a MUCH easier fight for Wlad. At least with Toney, you know he will be able to get through rounds and take a few punches on the way. It's not as if Wlad is all pressure and throwing a high volume of punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuThe only way to beat Wlad is not to be hit off him. Roy was always the master of not being hit. Believe me now if Wlad hits Toney he is gone. Now I know Roy doesn't have the elusiveness he once did but HW's are slower and he might just make it interesting until he was caught up to (which is inevitable by the way). I'm under no illusion that Roy would beat Wlad, he is way way past it, BUT Toney would be a punching bag for Wlad and that is a fact. Roy would at least try and be elusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesNow that really is silly talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Toney has never looked like being knocked out before and can take flush shots off of heavyweights. Wlad has been down more against Peter than Toney and it's not as though Toney wasn't being clubbed on the back of the head too.
Roy Jones Jr can't take a clean shot in more fights than not these days and we are suggesting he would do better against Wlad than Toney? No chance. First time Wlad lands big and Jones is in trouble. Toney always has his smarts, Jones never really had them.
Jones has never really proven he can hang at HW IMO, Toney even with a belly has always hung in there and at the start looked really promising.
I have no idea why you think as soon as Wlad lands that Toney is in queer street. Toney can take a punch off of anyone. The man knows how to box and has all the fundamentals, he is just getting old and slower. Like you regarding Jones, I am under no illusions regarding Toney either. All logic points to him being pretty done, but I still think it would interesting to see Toney go out on his shield.
Toney has never taken a punch off anyone like Wlad. The biggest punchers he has faced are a way past his prime and no where near as heavy handed as he once was Rahman and Sam Peter. Neither hit anywhere near as hard as Klitschko. Believe me if Wlad lands clean on Toney, the big fat bastard WILL be out cold. The way to beat Wlad is to be faster than him and avoid his punches, whilst hitting him with big shots yourself. I don't see Toney being able to do any of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesJones in recent years has lost his legs. He spent half the fight doing nothing on the ropes against Hopkins. As soon as he starts doing that against Wlad then he is screwed. Jones doesn't have smarts, he just keeps his gloves up without throwing anything or even moving his upper body all that much. I see it as being a MUCH easier fight for Wlad. At least with Toney, you know he will be able to get through rounds and take a few punches on the way. It's not as if Wlad is all pressure and throwing a high volume of punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuThe only way to beat Wlad is not to be hit off him. Roy was always the master of not being hit. Believe me now if Wlad hits Toney he is gone. Now I know Roy doesn't have the elusiveness he once did but HW's are slower and he might just make it interesting until he was caught up to (which is inevitable by the way). I'm under no illusion that Roy would beat Wlad, he is way way past it, BUT Toney would be a punching bag for Wlad and that is a fact. Roy would at least try and be elusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesNow that really is silly talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Toney has never looked like being knocked out before and can take flush shots off of heavyweights. Wlad has been down more against Peter than Toney and it's not as though Toney wasn't being clubbed on the back of the head too.
Roy Jones Jr can't take a clean shot in more fights than not these days and we are suggesting he would do better against Wlad than Toney? No chance. First time Wlad lands big and Jones is in trouble. Toney always has his smarts, Jones never really had them.
Jones has never really proven he can hang at HW IMO, Toney even with a belly has always hung in there and at the start looked really promising.
I have no idea why you think as soon as Wlad lands that Toney is in queer street. Toney can take a punch off of anyone. The man knows how to box and has all the fundamentals, he is just getting old and slower. Like you regarding Jones, I am under no illusions regarding Toney either. All logic points to him being pretty done, but I still think it would interesting to see Toney go out on his shield.
I suppose you got into this debate with Miles becasue Miles speculated that Toney still has the skills to cause some problems. Now as part of the JFAT alliance ( ;D ) I have to admit that it is a bitter pill to swallow that he is now totally shot as a fighter (you can't get a boxing lesson off Sam Peter and not call yourself totally shot) but to insinuate that Roy Jones would have ANY chance of being elusive, when he hasn't taken a side step, or moved his upper-body in the past 3 years is a bit silly :DQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
I mean Roy Jones couldn't evade Danny Green for more than 3 minutes, what makes you think he could keep away from Wladimir Klitschko's jab (which would probably render Roy unconscious on its own) for more than 10 seconds ???
And please don't start talking about temple shots :D... I cant't even bring myself to think of how Roy would react to the one of the deadliest right-hands in history :shakehead:
Yes you need speed to beat Wladimir, mostly to evade his shots but you also need to be able to separate heads from shoulders :cool:
if true the klitschkos are indeed just the jokes to end all jokes and wlad should be stripped of his belts for even attempting to make such a calamity of a fight
i can seriously make arguments for a parkinson ridden muhammad ali being a better opponent than toney, absolute ridiculous
Stop crying and face facts. Wlad wants to fight a toney or a chisora.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong#1 Unlike Audley, Toney was at one point a World Class heavyweightQuote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
#2 James Toney is apparently WILLING to fight Wlad
#3 Boxing isn't MMA and vice versa
#4 No fight has been signed yet, so put a lid on it HF, especially since YOUR BOY is fighting a horrible heavyweight.
Pathetic.
And for the a millionth time. Show me a post where I defended Haye vs Fraudley. You need to stop bringing it up. It doesn't change the fact wlad is looking to fight any old bum that will sign any old contract.
There's a tramp at the bottom of my road who got contacted by wlad for a fight....
#1 Wlad wants A fight and right now it's hard for him to find a decent challenger. He's just that good, face it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
#2 What is wrong with Wlad wanting an extra fight and by the way NO FIGHT HAS BEEN SIGNED YET so just be patient HF, it's not like Wlad is going after Audley Harrison
Even a Toney in his 40's is a far more significant challenge than Audley bloody Harrison. Many would regard Haye/Toney as a fairly decent fight (though against a Toney obviously past his best). Most regard Haye/Harrison as a complete joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
The deal with Toney is he's never been KO'd and Wlad could be the first to do so. Wlad would stop him, I have no doubt about that but Toney would give Wlad some rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesEven a Toney in his 40's is a far more significant challenge than Audley bloody Harrison. Many would regard Haye/Toney as a fairly decent fight (though against a Toney obviously past his best). Most regard Haye/Harrison as a complete joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong#1 Wlad wants A fight and right now it's hard for him to find a decent challenger. He's just that good, face it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
#2 What is wrong with Wlad wanting an extra fight and by the way NO FIGHT HAS BEEN SIGNED YET so just be patient HF, it's not like Wlad is going after Audley Harrison
Derek chisora is actually a rather dangerous fight considering he is a complete unknown quantity at world level and has shown domestically he has the heart and quite a bit of skill to back up his shout for a go at the big boys
toney however is a complete shot fighter now who has nothing left in the tank and is merely taking pummelings for cash
Chisora isn't tested vs even fringe contenders, but that "unknown" does make him a little dangerous but no more than Sam Peter, I highly doubt he has Sam's chin though. He throws a wide left hook and seems open for a quick right cross.
I don't care who Wlad fights in December, as I've stated before he and Manny are just working on his style.
This is worse than Haye fighting Harrison.
How?Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Toney is a faded legend of the sport, Harrison is a never was. Even now Toney would toy with Audley Harrison.
I honestly don't think Toney can fight for anything close to 12 rounds whilst remaining competitive. His conditioning is woeful. He's 42 and very fat.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesHow?Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Toney is a faded legend of the sport, Harrison is a never was. Even now Toney would toy with Audley Harrison.
Harrison - Haye has the slight possibility of being slightly competitive. Klitschko vs Toney doesn't. That's how it is worse.
i agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
harrison is going to absolutely massacre haye
audley vs vitali = the only fight in the heavys that makes any sense
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Theres always an excuse. You don't need to post on this subject anymore.
Wlad wants to make money of bums who are desperate for a payday and don't care what they're contracted into. Thats it. End of story. Done. Get over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesEven a Toney in his 40's is a far more significant challenge than Audley bloody Harrison. Many would regard Haye/Toney as a fairly decent fight (though against a Toney obviously past his best). Most regard Haye/Harrison as a complete joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
This topic isn't about haye and harrison (which is a joke). It doesn't need to be mentioned.
The topic is wlad fighting bums.