Do we begin to criticize Cotto if he fights Chavez Jr. in his next fight?

What's up with Cotto's carrer trajectory? He went from fighting Margarito, Clottey, and Pacquiao to fighting Foreman and Chavez Jr? Yuri Foreman is a good fighter and he showed a lot of guts in the Cotto fight, but Cotto is sitting out the rest of the year and then plans to fight Chavez Jr. Arum: If Chavez Beats Gomez, He Will Get Miguel Cotto - Boxing News That is a pretty weak schedule. It's not like Wlad where there isn't good opposition to chose from. The division is stacked: Martinez, Williams, Dzinzurik, Angulo, Margarito, Cintron, even Martirosyan, which are all tougher fights than Chavez Jr. and fight at or around that weight.

Personally, I never saw Cotto as a true junior middleweight. To me, he was even a smallish welterweight. I thought he made a convenient move up to fight a lucrative fight with Foreman and I think if he takes the Chavez Jr. fight that at this point in his career, he is making the conscious decision to take money fights, not difficult fights. I doubt we'll see him in against any of the aforementioned top junior middleweights. In my opinion, the best days of Cotto are behind him. What say you?

there is probably a lot of money in fighting Chavez Jr

Besides. Every fighter has to have a period without soooo much intensity in opposition.

economics aside, i think it's fair to say that if cotto does fights chavez jr., he deserves criticism for this fight just as chavez jr. has gotten criticism for not stepping up the quality of his opposition.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

economics aside, i think it's fair to say that if cotto does fights chavez jr., he deserves criticism for this fight just as chavez jr. has gotten criticism for not stepping up the quality of his opposition.

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if there was no such thing as money, who do you think he should be fighting?

i think a much more attractive fight would be a cotto/angulo fight, provided angulo gets his immigration status corrected. another one would be a cotto/cintron fight. i think cintron is vastly improved and could give him a tussle.

cotto/angulo would be a fan's dream fight, imo!

Cotto has fought tough oposition in his career , he is now on the slide after many tough fights.
So taking a few easier fights doesnt mean we have to give him shit for it , he has been and i guess still is a proper fighter, real old school.

i seriously think cotto has seen his better days because simply put, he's not the same fighter anymore because he's not able to absorb the kind of pre-margarito punishment. and there is zero doubt in my mind that a chavez jr. fight would spell the end of his great career. chavez jr. is a fighter on the ascend. he's bigger, stronger and a pressure fighter like margarito.

if cotto makes the mistake and fights angulo, same thing happens. angulo would beat him up really bad. angulo is also a very hard punching pressure fighter who is the naturally bigger fighter as well.

Cotto deserves an easy fight and refine his skills with Manny (;)) No really let him make money because he will get beat by a legit world class fighter.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

i seriously think cotto has seen his better days because simply put, he's not the same fighter anymore because he's not able to absorb the kind of pre-margarito punishment. and there is zero doubt in my mind that a chavez jr. fight would spell the end of his great career. chavez jr. is a fighter on the ascend. he's bigger, stronger and a pressure fighter like margarito.

if cotto makes the mistake and fights angulo, same thing happens. angulo would beat him up really bad. angulo is also a very hard punching pressure fighter who is the naturally bigger fighter as well.

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i actually don't disagree with this post.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

What's up with Cotto's carrer trajectory? He went from fighting Margarito, Clottey, and Pacquiao to fighting Foreman and Chavez Jr? Yuri Foreman is a good fighter and he showed a lot of guts in the Cotto fight, but Cotto is sitting out the rest of the year and then plans to fight Chavez Jr. Arum: If Chavez Beats Gomez, He Will Get Miguel Cotto - Boxing News That is a pretty weak schedule. It's not like Wlad where there isn't good opposition to chose from. The division is stacked: Martinez, Williams, Dzinzurik, Angulo, Margarito, Cintron, even Martirosyan, which are all tougher fights than Chavez Jr. and fight at or around that weight.

Personally, I never saw Cotto as a true junior middleweight. To me, he was even a smallish welterweight. I thought he made a convenient move up to fight a lucrative fight with Foreman and I think if he takes the Chavez Jr. fight that at this point in his career, he is making the conscious decision to take money fights, not difficult fights. I doubt we'll see him in against any of the aforementioned top junior middleweights. In my opinion, the best days of Cotto are behind him. What say you?

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Does Cotto deserve criticism? That depends, on if you see this fight as Cotto taking a step down, or Chavez taking a step up. How is Chavez going to fight better opposition if they will be criticized just for fighting him.

I see this fight as more Chavez finally stepping up in competition than Cotto taking an easy fight. So no I won't criticize him.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

What's up with Cotto's carrer trajectory? He went from fighting Margarito, Clottey, and Pacquiao to fighting Foreman and Chavez Jr? Yuri Foreman is a good fighter and he showed a lot of guts in the Cotto fight, but Cotto is sitting out the rest of the year and then plans to fight Chavez Jr. Arum: If Chavez Beats Gomez, He Will Get Miguel Cotto - Boxing News That is a pretty weak schedule. It's not like Wlad where there isn't good opposition to chose from. The division is stacked: Martinez, Williams, Dzinzurik, Angulo, Margarito, Cintron, even Martirosyan, which are all tougher fights than Chavez Jr. and fight at or around that weight.

Personally, I never saw Cotto as a true junior middleweight. To me, he was even a smallish welterweight. I thought he made a convenient move up to fight a lucrative fight with Foreman and I think if he takes the Chavez Jr. fight that at this point in his career, he is making the conscious decision to take money fights, not difficult fights. I doubt we'll see him in against any of the aforementioned top junior middleweights. In my opinion, the best days of Cotto are behind him. What say you?

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Does Cotto deserve criticism? That depends, on if you see this fight as Cotto taking a step down, or Chavez taking a step up. How is Chavez going to fight better opposition if they will be criticized just for fighting him.

I see this fight as more Chavez finally stepping up in competition than Cotto taking an easy fight. So no I won't criticize him.

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Chavez is stepping up in competiton. Granted, I think he is seeing a Cotto that is on the slide, but even a Cotto on the slide, is a big step up in competition for Chavez. I'm not mad at Chavez for taking this fight at all. Actually, it is a great stepping-stone fight for him at this stage.

But, I guess I'm beginning to think of Cotto as just fighting now for the pay days. Maybe there is nothing wrong with that given the wars he has been through. But, if that's the case, then we should just call him for what he is, a mostly shot fighter looking for a pay day. Once again, Top Rank is doing its job as a promoter.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

What's up with Cotto's carrer trajectory? He went from fighting Margarito, Clottey, and Pacquiao to fighting Foreman and Chavez Jr? Yuri Foreman is a good fighter and he showed a lot of guts in the Cotto fight, but Cotto is sitting out the rest of the year and then plans to fight Chavez Jr. Arum: If Chavez Beats Gomez, He Will Get Miguel Cotto - Boxing News That is a pretty weak schedule. It's not like Wlad where there isn't good opposition to chose from. The division is stacked: Martinez, Williams, Dzinzurik, Angulo, Margarito, Cintron, even Martirosyan, which are all tougher fights than Chavez Jr. and fight at or around that weight.

Personally, I never saw Cotto as a true junior middleweight. To me, he was even a smallish welterweight. I thought he made a convenient move up to fight a lucrative fight with Foreman and I think if he takes the Chavez Jr. fight that at this point in his career, he is making the conscious decision to take money fights, not difficult fights. I doubt we'll see him in against any of the aforementioned top junior middleweights. In my opinion, the best days of Cotto are behind him. What say you?

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Does Cotto deserve criticism? That depends, on if you see this fight as Cotto taking a step down, or Chavez taking a step up. How is Chavez going to fight better opposition if they will be criticized just for fighting him.

I see this fight as more Chavez finally stepping up in competition than Cotto taking an easy fight. So no I won't criticize him.

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Chavez is stepping up in competiton. Granted, I think he is seeing a Cotto that is on the slide, but even a Cotto on the slide, is a big step up in competition for Chavez. I'm not mad at Chavez for taking this fight at all. Actually, it is a great stepping-stone fight for him at this stage.

But, I guess I'm beginning to think of Cotto as just fighting now for the pay days. Maybe there is nothing wrong with that given the wars he has been through. But, if that's the case, then we should just call him for what he is, a mostly shot fighter looking for a pay day. Once again, Top Rank is doing its job as a promoter.

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how so? you're complaining about Cotto taking on Chavez Jr (when it's not even confirmed yet) when in the last 3 years he's taken on Urkal, Judah, Mosley, Gomez, Margarito, Jennings, Clottey, Pacquiao, and now Foreman back to back

yet we just sit back and don't make a peep when guys like Berto just take on Cotto's and the rest of the main players at welterweight's leftovers

he fought Pacquiao and his first fight back (with a new trainer and after the tragic death of his father) was against an able opponent who happened to have a title that he won from one of the top guys at 154 (although Santos turned up like shit, he had won back attention and praise with his fierce KO of Alcine)

he's given us enough back to back wars and deserves a chance to work on his skills with a new trainer to see if he can get a second wind in his career, i mean if he makes it a habit of just taking on second tier guys well then yea he should get criticized if he tries to pull a Mosley/Mora type scenario, but i mean give the guy a break, not every guy can be Gatti

This is simply more of Arum In-House Promotions, keeping the cash moving from one of Bobs pockets to the other.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

What's up with Cotto's carrer trajectory? He went from fighting Margarito, Clottey, and Pacquiao to fighting Foreman and Chavez Jr? Yuri Foreman is a good fighter and he showed a lot of guts in the Cotto fight, but Cotto is sitting out the rest of the year and then plans to fight Chavez Jr. Arum: If Chavez Beats Gomez, He Will Get Miguel Cotto - Boxing News That is a pretty weak schedule. It's not like Wlad where there isn't good opposition to chose from. The division is stacked: Martinez, Williams, Dzinzurik, Angulo, Margarito, Cintron, even Martirosyan, which are all tougher fights than Chavez Jr. and fight at or around that weight.

Personally, I never saw Cotto as a true junior middleweight. To me, he was even a smallish welterweight. I thought he made a convenient move up to fight a lucrative fight with Foreman and I think if he takes the Chavez Jr. fight that at this point in his career, he is making the conscious decision to take money fights, not difficult fights. I doubt we'll see him in against any of the aforementioned top junior middleweights. In my opinion, the best days of Cotto are behind him. What say you?

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Does Cotto deserve criticism? That depends, on if you see this fight as Cotto taking a step down, or Chavez taking a step up. How is Chavez going to fight better opposition if they will be criticized just for fighting him.

I see this fight as more Chavez finally stepping up in competition than Cotto taking an easy fight. So no I won't criticize him.

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Chavez is stepping up in competiton. Granted, I think he is seeing a Cotto that is on the slide, but even a Cotto on the slide, is a big step up in competition for Chavez. I'm not mad at Chavez for taking this fight at all. Actually, it is a great stepping-stone fight for him at this stage.

But, I guess I'm beginning to think of Cotto as just fighting now for the pay days. Maybe there is nothing wrong with that given the wars he has been through. But, if that's the case, then we should just call him for what he is, a mostly shot fighter looking for a pay day. Once again, Top Rank is doing its job as a promoter.

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how so? you're complaining about Cotto taking on Chavez Jr (when it's not even confirmed yet) when in the last 3 years he's taken on Urkal, Judah, Mosley, Gomez, Margarito, Jennings, Clottey, Pacquiao, and now Foreman back to back

yet we just sit back and don't make a peep when guys like Berto just take on Cotto's and the rest of the main players at welterweight's leftovers

he fought Pacquiao and his first fight back (with a new trainer and after the tragic death of his father) was against an able opponent who happened to have a title that he won from one of the top guys at 154 (although Santos turned up like shit, he had won back attention and praise with his fierce KO of Alcine)

he's given us enough back to back wars and deserves a chance to work on his skills with a new trainer to see if he can get a second wind in his career, i mean if he makes it a habit of just taking on second tier guys well then yea he should get criticized if he tries to pull a Mosley/Mora type scenario, but i mean give the guy a break, not every guy can be Gatti

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Listen, to an extent I agree. This post is probably premature. Let's see what happens with Chavez and who his next fight is against. I just have the feeling that he is now out only for the pay days and not looking for a second wind. 154 is sooooo deep. And Cotto dominated at 147. I'd like to see him continue to move up the ladder after beating a top ten guy in Foreman rather than regress in fighting Chavez Jr. It makes the Foreman fight seem more like a money fight than a statement that he was going to damage at 154.

Nobody has fought better competition more consistently then Cotto in the last 10 years. I really believe that, he has ALWAYS taken the toughest fight possible from all the way back to fighting Maussa, Pinto and Torres. His only gimme fights really were Jennings and Gomez, one to set up the Margarito fight and the other to recover from it. Foreman is a top JMW for sure and how many made Foreman a very live dog in that one? Many here picked him. I don't think Cotto is 'mostly shot' either. When he's getting knocked out by guys like Chavez and Saul Alvarez then we call him shot. This fight with Chavez isn't even that bad of a fight. People want this guy Junior to step up prematurely, and he probably will. When he does, he's going to regret caving in to those pressures.

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Originally Posted by amat

Nobody has fought better competition more consistently then Cotto in the last 10 years. I really believe that, he has ALWAYS taken the toughest fight possible from all the way back to fighting Maussa, Pinto and Torres. His only gimme fights really were Jennings and Gomez, one to set up the Margarito fight and the other to recover from it. Foreman is a top JMW for sure and how many made Foreman a very live dog in that one? Many here picked him. I don't think Cotto is 'mostly shot' either. When he's getting knocked out by guys like Chavez and Saul Alvarez then we call him shot. This fight with Chavez isn't even that bad of a fight. People want this guy Junior to step up prematurely, and he probably will. When he does, he's going to regret caving in to those pressures.

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I completely agree that Cotto fought some of the best competition of anyone at or around that weight between like 05 and 09. No doubt. I think everyone considered Foreman a live dog, but also almost everyone thought Cotto would win. Foreman was tougher than expected. My point basically is that Cotto fought the toughest at 147 like a warrior, but now at 154, he doesn't seem to be doing the same kind of cleaning out the division that he did at 147 if he fights Chavez, and you would think that Cotto being the warrior he is, would do exactly that. Like the great promoter he is, I think it was Arum's idea for him to move up to 154 so that he could face Foreman, a fight he would win, and then face Chavez Jr., a big money fight he should probably win, and then retire. I'm just saying I don't see him stepping up and fighting Martinez, Dzinziruk, Williams, Kirkland, Angulo, Cintron. I may be wrong of course.

I will commend Miguel if he fights Junior. Darn JCC jnr will have a huge size advantage over Miguel if ever, I'm rootin for Cotto!!!

Torres, Malignaggi, Quintana, Judah, Mosley, Margarito, Pacquiao, Clottey. He fought all those guys within a 4 year span. I don't think Cotto should get criticized at all for taking this fight.

I'm happy to see Chavez Jr. finally fighting someone worth fighting. (So I can see him get his a$$ beat!)

I wouldn't criticize cotto for fighting chavez jr at all. I see this as a test for both fighters. If Chavez jr gets a win over cotto then he is truly a top contender and not just a big name. If cotto smashes Chavez then Cotto proves he is still a top fighter. I do not think highly of chavez jr and I do not believe Cotto is washed up, so I think cotto will get the win but Chavez jr will prove he is not far off from the top.

Still not a cakewalk fight for Cotto.

It'll be his gimmee fight for next year. He's been having 1 per year for the last 4 or so years.

I'll not judge til after 2006 as he wasn't the finished article really.

But in 2007 there was Urkal

In 2008 there was Alfonso Gomez

In 2009 there was Michael Jennings

In 2010 there was Yuri Foreman

In 20011 there will be JCCjr


None of those guys are terrible, but neither have or would ever have any realistic chance of beating Cotto. I can understand the rationale behind some of the fights as he was coming off losses, and Gomez will have been a fairly decent money spinner. So will JCCjr so i can't fault him for taking the fight. Easy money. His legacy is pretty much sealed anyway. We probably know all we will ever know about him. So while their might be disappointment around him taking the fight, i can definitely see the appeal behind it.