Margarito-Pac - Is breeze blocks being underestimated?

I've noticed a lot of people writing this fight off as a "gimme" for Pac. This has surprised me a bit.

If you forgive breeze blocks one bad night against Mosley, when quite frankly he shouldn't have been allowed to enter the ring considering he was mentally destroyed literally minutes before the contest, then he is a big bad dangerous welterweight (151lber).

You should forgive anyone one bad outing. He's had a comeback to blow off the cobwebs and has absolutely NOTHING to lose. He will always be regarded as a dirty cheat, but as boxing is a disgusting business, where just about anything goes, he's been put in a GREAT position.

He has the ability/size to put Pac under the cosh, no? Is he really a 5/1 dog? I'm not so sure....Thoughts?

I rewatched his fight with Cotto last week. I definitely think he's being under-estimated. The way he cut off the ring was awesome. Don't know how much cement he was packing then though so it's hard to tell if he can reproduce that sort of form.

He's more dangerous than Hatton, De La Hoya and Cotto imo.

the thing is it hasn't been one off night, he got wrecked against Mosley then looked like shit against a journeyman (at best) in his last fight, IMO the only way his ass was effective was if he was packing, i don't really thing he brings anything new to the table in terms of what Pacquiao has faced, the main reason i (as well as almost everyone else) feel that Mayweather would whip Pacquiao because he's like no other opponent he's faced, awesome defense quick feet, quick hands and underrated power, if Margarito wasn't as slow as molasses and didn't just plod forward well then maybe more would be giving him a chance, but IMO it's just gonna be a repeat of what Mosley did to him

is that katy perry?

drooolz

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I've noticed a lot of people writing this fight off as a "gimme" for Pac. This has surprised me a bit.

If you forgive breeze blocks one bad night against Mosley, when quite frankly he shouldn't have been allowed to enter the ring considering he was mentally destroyed literally minutes before the contest, then he is a big bad dangerous welterweight (151lber).

You should forgive anyone one bad outing. He's had a comeback to blow off the cobwebs and has absolutely NOTHING to lose. He will always be regarded as a dirty cheat, but as boxing is a disgusting business, where just about anything goes, he's been put in a GREAT position.

He has the ability/size to put Pac under the cosh, no? Is he really a 5/1 dog? I'm not so sure....Thoughts?

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Margarito has two chances SLIM and NONE....and SLIM just left town :o

I fear for Margarito's health in this fight. He hasn't got a hope in winning, he really hasn't. The thing that worries me in this fight is that Margarito has a great chin and will be pumped up to prove the doubters wrong but he is slow, one paced, doesn't move head and is not huge puncher. So he will just be plodding in and plodding in and pac-man will just be circling him, bombing him and pounding him non stop. I can see a career ending beating for Margarito. I don't think Pac-Man will knock him out...I don't even think he will knock him down. I think either the corner will pull Margarito out or the ref will stop it.

Agrees with above.

Too. Damn. Fast.

Margarito, much as I like him, will get shredded.

Well if you take a look at boxing history, there has never been a fighter after getting his ass whipped like that in the Mosley fight to come back and beat an elite fighter like Pac.

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm correct when I say that Margarito is a ruined fighter or close to being one. A beating in the Shane Mosley fight takes years off from a fighter.

Can't see Margarito winning either. It seems his style was made for Pac to do whatever he wants.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I've noticed a lot of people writing this fight off as a "gimme" for Pac. This has surprised me a bit.

If you forgive breeze blocks one bad night against Mosley, when quite frankly he shouldn't have been allowed to enter the ring considering he was mentally destroyed literally minutes before the contest, then he is a big bad dangerous welterweight (151lber).

You should forgive anyone one bad outing. He's had a comeback to blow off the cobwebs and has absolutely NOTHING to lose. He will always be regarded as a dirty cheat, but as boxing is a disgusting business, where just about anything goes, he's been put in a GREAT position.

He has the ability/size to put Pac under the cosh, no? Is he really a 5/1 dog? I'm not so sure....Thoughts?

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I completely agree. I think Pac should be favored because he is that much faster and more skilled, but no way is Margarito a 5-1 dog. No way. This is a tougher matchup than Clottey, Hatton, or Cotto. He will come in something like 20 pounds more than Pacquiao probably.

All you need to do is watch the first round of this fight(starts at 8 minutes) before you think Margarito has a shot. This was years ago when he was younger and hungrier and not as worn.

Same style, see how easily Lujan gets in and lands his shot even when he throws them super wide and not even as in a straight like as pacquiao does?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmYbwVTPFws


I don't know how anyone thinks Margarito has a chance against a harder hitting and faster fighter in Pacquiao. He gives up his height way too much for this to be competitive, if the blueprint to beat him was the Mosley fight, this fight shows how easily Pacquiao will get in and out on him.

Fenster, I've actually thought about this, thinking that Margo mentally must have been way out of it after all that shit going down before the Mosley fight. But, that being said, I can't come to any other conclusion, harsh as it may seem, that Margo has been loading for ages and has puff in his punches. You can't be blowing Sebastien Lujan's ear off one minute and then struggling to make much of a dent in his latest outing against Garcia after youv'e been caught trying to use loaded wraps the fight before.

Puff in his punches won't harm Pacquiao I wouldn't say, and Margo is probably in for some kind of De La Hoya type beating, I'd hazard a guess he'll be completely bewildered by the Pacman for as long as the fight lasts. Maybe 9 - 10 rounds.

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Originally Posted by mnmc10

is that katy perry?

drooolz

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Kat is a 'lil chunky... bigger boobies.

Pac hasn't faced a naturally bigger & free swinging non retreating Neanderthal like Margarito. Speed wise its night and day but Margarito brings that natural and current size and range which Manny has not met. I give Clottey size but a hollow chest....Cotto the skill but weight bs and was off two bruising cutting wars . Biggest question is psychological for Margarito off wrap gate and tko to Mosley. He's not new to taking punishment and even being on the floor so I dont think it will phase Tony as much physically. He's always been hit,not news. Mosley was battle tested at weight and bigger then Pac, using Mayorga as a Margarito doppleganger going in. Now has the Pandora's box on his vaunted chin been opened by Shane...remains to be seen. Manny will have to fight one of the most complete fights,in and out as he has to punch in between the volleys. I favor Manny on speed,speed kills and ...but this is not a gimme and he will be hit often like he has not been by a foe not going back wards. Could be brutal as first to back straight will surely have the other atop his chest taking advantage.

I agree with all the reasons why Pac should win comfortably. I also agree the loaded gloves could have been a factor in previous fights but that is not 100% certain.

However, just two fights ago when Margarito had finished smashing Cotto to bits, the idea Pacquiao could have been an opponent for him would have been totally ridiculed. Of course Pac has been a revelation in that time.

But, again, forgive one bad night (I wouldn't read too much into the comeback fight, the fact it went ten rounds is a bonus) and surely Margarito would be considered the most dangerous opponent Pacquiao has ever faced?

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Well if you take a look at boxing history, there has never been a fighter after getting his ass whipped like that in the Mosley fight to come back and beat an elite fighter like Pac.

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm correct when I say that Margarito is a ruined fighter or close to being one. A beating in the Shane Mosley fight takes years off from a fighter.

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This sounds perfectly understandable but name some fighters you mean? I'd like to take a look at it.

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Originally Posted by mnmc10

is that katy perry?

drooolz

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She could knock on my door any day

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/151030-1/...me_facial.gif?

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Well if you take a look at boxing history, there has never been a fighter after getting his ass whipped like that in the Mosley fight to come back and beat an elite fighter like Pac.

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm correct when I say that Margarito is a ruined fighter or close to being one. A beating in the Shane Mosley fight takes years off from a fighter.

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Try Vic Darchinyan. But there's a psyche factor.

Unlike Marg. Vic never got involve in any scandal.

I think this has the potential to be a very difficult fight for Manny. Margarito does a number of things wrong, but only Mosley has really been able to go to town on him. And let's face it, Margarito was most not likely in a very good place considering what went down before the fight. Margarito does pose issues that Manny hasn't dealt with before. Margarito is a big man, throws a LOT of punches and unlike recent opponents who have been known to fade down the stretch, Margarito always gets stronger.

Pac is an obvious favourite, but I can see Margarito giving him a good go of it.

It will get built up as Pacs toughest fight yet, yet we all know this will be more like the PBF vs Mosley fight.

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Well if you take a look at boxing history, there has never been a fighter after getting his ass whipped like that in the Mosley fight to come back and beat an elite fighter like Pac.

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm correct when I say that Margarito is a ruined fighter or close to being one. A beating in the Shane Mosley fight takes years off from a fighter.

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Try Vic Darchinyan. But there's a psyche factor.

Unlike Marg. Vic never got involve in any scandal.

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Darchinyan never got a beating throughout a fight. Getting outboxed and then 1 punch KO is different than getting a sustained heavy beating on your entire body.

In fact, I am correct that a fighter that gets massively beat down like Margarito, never recovers to beat an elite opponent.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Well if you take a look at boxing history, there has never been a fighter after getting his ass whipped like that in the Mosley fight to come back and beat an elite fighter like Pac.

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm correct when I say that Margarito is a ruined fighter or close to being one. A beating in the Shane Mosley fight takes years off from a fighter.

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Try Vic Darchinyan. But there's a psyche factor.

Unlike Marg. Vic never got involve in any scandal.

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Darchinyan never got a beating throughout a fight. Getting outboxed and then 1 punch KO is different than getting a sustained heavy beating on your entire body.

In fact, I am correct that a fighter that gets massively beat down like Margarito, never recovers to beat an elite opponent.

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Name the exact guys you're thinking of?

I think it will be interesting to see if the severe beating is the only reason for the demise.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Well if you take a look at boxing history, there has never been a fighter after getting his ass whipped like that in the Mosley fight to come back and beat an elite fighter like Pac.

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm correct when I say that Margarito is a ruined fighter or close to being one. A beating in the Shane Mosley fight takes years off from a fighter.

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Try Vic Darchinyan. But there's a psyche factor.

Unlike Marg. Vic never got involve in any scandal.

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Darchinyan never got a beating throughout a fight. Getting outboxed and then 1 punch KO is different than getting a sustained heavy beating on your entire body.

In fact, I am correct that a fighter that gets massively beat down like Margarito, never recovers to beat an elite opponent.

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Name the exact guys you're thinking of?

I think it will be interesting to see if the severe beating is the only reason for the demise.

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I'm kinda getting stymied and frustrated. I can't think of any.

I was thinking of Tyson or Gatti... but nah, I don't think so.

Maybe Pac's early career?.. But he didn't really take one-sided beatdowns in those 2 KO losses of his.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Well if you take a look at boxing history, there has never been a fighter after getting his ass whipped like that in the Mosley fight to come back and beat an elite fighter like Pac.

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm correct when I say that Margarito is a ruined fighter or close to being one. A beating in the Shane Mosley fight takes years off from a fighter.

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Try Vic Darchinyan. But there's a psyche factor.

Unlike Marg. Vic never got involve in any scandal.

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Darchinyan never got a beating throughout a fight. Getting outboxed and then 1 punch KO is different than getting a sustained heavy beating on your entire body.

In fact, I am correct that a fighter that gets massively beat down like Margarito, never recovers to beat an elite opponent.

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Name the exact guys you're thinking of?

I think it will be interesting to see if the severe beating is the only reason for the demise.

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Benny Paret, Meldrick Taylor, Joe Frazier (after 1st Foreman fight), Razor Ruddock (after both Tyson fights), John Mugabi (after Hagler beat down), Floyd Patterson (after both Liston fights). Those are just a few, but there are a lot more in boxing history.

In fact the Margarito sustained kind of beating to the head and/or body can ruin fighters or takes years off their career. This is pretty much common knowledge in boxing. I'm pretty sure you may find 1 or 2 exceptions to the rule, but those are extremely rare. Fighters that take a sustain beating don't come back and beat elite fighters, and when I say elite, I'm talking either the no. 1 guy or 2 guy in the division or a top 10 p4p fighter. They either become ruin, shot, severely on the downside of their career. Fact.


EDIT: MAB was 1 of the rare exceptions after getting a beat down by Pac in '03 to go and have some good wins, like against Morales in their 3rd fight who would beat Pac in their 1st fight. But it is extremely rare in boxing history to come back from a massive beat down to beat an elite fighter.

If one buys into what has been in the news these last few days, then definitely, one would mistakenly conclude that the former welterweight title-holder, Mexican, Antonio Margarito is being underestimated on several fronts.

Vegas for one, has the "Tijuana Tornado", Margarito a 6-1 underdog at one point in time. I will be surprised if that odds will hold, in view of all the negative feedback emanating out of camp Pacquiao in Baguio City, in the Philippines.

Some scribes even have alarming news, that Manny is at present, seemingly somewhat unable to focus all his energies exclusively for this fight. Indicative indeed that the seriousness of the task-in-hand has not reached the critical level where the mind of the pound for pound champ needs to be, in order to benefit fully from all the training that they have already had these past four weeks of training camp.

Where in the past was attained without so much of a hitch, a positive result at this point in time, in this particular training camp, seem so far been somewhat elusive. Several factors come into play, and to generalise, it all points to the PacMan playing too much hookey!

Coach Freddie Roach, camp Pacquiao's head trainer, and Alex Ariza, the conditioning coach, have gone off sounding displeasure over these turn of events.

If Manny expects the washed down version of Margarito to show up come the 13th of November, with a symbolic white flag on the side, and all but ready to receive his beating, then he will surely be in for a rude awakening! Last report have Margarito with his trainer Robert Garcia, with a serious gameplan to offset whatever Pacquiao have in store for Tony come their ring date. The plan is to surprise the Pacman with motion, head movement, an offense led by a stiff jab. If successful at that, bit hook line and sinker, a stung "Filipino typhoon" will get knocked out.

Come fight night, Margarito comes to fight with a good enough defense against Pac, he should do well. And with his size, a win is not a remote possibility. However, if he will just rely purely on sheer size, his granite chin, and with a hope for his volume punches to kick in, also, his superb conditioning... he will fail!

He will either run for survival, or he will get knocked into retirement.
For surely the volume punches will not come, and the lack of a winning gameplan will spell doom.

I'm sure Manny Pacquiao knows what it takes to get the job done, tho. And the adjustments and fight preps are all proper. The negative pub is all that... negative pub to make the fight of more interest.

If Manny comes to fight Nocvember 13th with all his given talent intact.. and with a usual game plan, he should be able to inflict enough damage to cause a peculiarity experienced by all Pac opponents in the past, it shall take shape, and with it the possibility of a stoppage inside of eight!

bulldog even though i do agree with you for the most part, i can think of one standout fighter who got his ass whooped physically and mentally and came back to beat an elite opponent, and his name is George Foreman ;D

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

Stuff...

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Has there ever been a Pacquiao fight where there weren't a ton of stories about his supposed issues in training camp?

Has there ever been a Pacquiao fight where there weren't a ton of stories about his supposed issues in training camp?[/QUOTE]

Exactly! It's Arum's! And neither is it a eureka moment by any means.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

Stuff...

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Has there ever been a Pacquiao fight where there weren't a ton of stories about his supposed issues in training camp?

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HBO 24/7 this saturday. It's like watching telenovela ;D. There's always drama. I can't wait to see it. Roach said he's not gonna allow HBO crew to film any Pac's sparring session this time. :mad: Bummer.

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Originally Posted by miles

I think this has the potential to be a very difficult fight for Manny. Margarito does a number of things wrong, but only Mosley has really been able to go to town on him. And let's face it, Margarito was most not likely in a very good place considering what went down before the fight. Margarito does pose issues that Manny hasn't dealt with before. Margarito is a big man, throws a LOT of punches and unlike recent opponents who have been known to fade down the stretch, Margarito always gets stronger.

Pac is an obvious favourite, but I can see Margarito giving him a good go of it.

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You crazy ? This will be the biggest mis-match since Tyson fough McNeeley. Pac-Man will destroy him and Margacheato won't win one round. In fact he won't win one minute of one round.

Well I think what most look at is the last big fight's. Cotto fought Margarito and was easily winning until the late rounds. Then Tony took over for the kill. When Pac and Cotto fought there really was only one round the first where there was any doubt. After that it was all Pacquaio. You do have to look at these fights to see a clearer picture in most cases but like they say styles make fight's.

I am going with Pacquiao by an easy, cruising desicion. I think Margarito is entirely to slow and will not even be able to find Pac most of the night with anything good besides a pawing punch.

Margo will be a target practice after round 4.