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Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Hope everyone enjoyed that fight and had a great night to go with it.
So after seeing last nights fight what does everyone think about the Cotto fight in hindsight? Did he use illegal wraps in that fight?
If it was later found out that he did use illegal wraps in that fight I wouldnt be surprised, once the whole hand wraps issue came out I actually never doubted that MArgo cheated in that fight as well. However after watching the fight and hearing Pac's post fight interview I started thinking that maybe he didnt use them after all.
Pac moved around and didnt let Margo hit him the way that Cotto did, Cotto took alot of punches and got wore out, Manny wasnt hit as often and when he was he by his own admission was hurt he was just able to take the punches better than Cotto did.
What do you guys think?
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
IMO, he did not use them.
As I was telling Terrible, Tony just did not land as many punches to the body to wear him down like he did to Miguel. Pac just simply did not let Tony hit him much.
The times Pacquiao was on the ropes he looked VERY uncomfortable in there especially in the exchanges.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hardcore_crash
IMO, he did not use them.
As I was telling Terrible, Tony just did not land as many punches to the body to wear him down like he did to Miguel. Pac just simply did not let Tony hit him much.
The times Pacquiao was on the ropes he looked VERY uncomfortable in there especially in the exchanges.
Well like I said I wouldnt be surprised if it was some how found out that he did use them, but before I was 100% sure he used illegal wraps now im more like 50/50
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Hope everyone enjoyed that fight and had a great night to go with it.
So after seeing last nights fight what does everyone think about the Cotto fight in hindsight? Did he use illegal wraps in that fight?
If it was later found out that he did use illegal wraps in that fight I wouldnt be surprised, once the whole hand wraps issue came out I actually never doubted that MArgo cheated in that fight as well. However after watching the fight and hearing Pac's post fight interview I started thinking that maybe he didnt use them after all.
Pac moved around and didnt let Margo hit him the way that Cotto did, Cotto took alot of punches and got wore out, Manny wasnt hit as often and when he was he by his own admission was hurt he was just able to take the punches better than Cotto did.
What do you guys think?
All good points. In my opinion I think Margo didn't use illegal handwraps in that fight. Cotto's face was even more messed up in the Pac fight than the Margarito one. Cotto tends not to be as strong in the late rounds, see the Mosley fight as an example, and Margarito just wore him down, we all know Margarito had a hell of a chin and keeps on coming forward, still the only person to stop him is only Mosley.
On the other hand, ever since Margo was caught there has been an air of suspicion in all of his past fights and rightly so. I guess we will never know whether or not he used them in the cotto fight. He's just a disgraced fighter now with a question mark on his biggest victories of the past.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
I agree I wouldn't be surprised at all either but would those block's increase the weight of his hands??
Because if they would, I would have to re-watch some fights and see the way Margarito is punching.
I won't lie, it is peculiar seeing someone throw punches the way he did Vs. Cotto.
He was using a lot of leverage, not peculiar in Tony size, but did he throw the same Vs. Pacquiao.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Dont get me wrong Margarito got the Karmic beating he had coming to him for eveerything that he has been involved with and the way he has choosen to hide from it and mock it. But I think that him deciding to go through the fight and staying in and taking his lumps after he was being clearly destroyed round after round, gives him a little redemption in my eyes.
He's never going to be the same, the post fight interview was bad, not only because the way he looked but he also seemed to be very slow and muttering. I dont doubt he will now have some serious mental promblems later on in his life. Maybe he deseverse it but no one here is in any position to be a judge and to issue a beating like that on anyone, but he is and he did decide to stay in and get his ass beat. He took that for 12 rounds to be redeemed and forgiven. I dont forgive him if he really did know about it (which seems pretty obvious) but I can at least respect that he took the punishment for it in what will end up being the biggest way.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Dont get me wrong Margarito got the Karmic beating he had coming to him for eveerything that he has been involved with and the way he has choosen to hide from it and mock it. But I think that him deciding to go through the fight and staying in and taking his lumps after he was being clearly destroyed round after round, gives him a little redemption in my eyes.
He's never going to be the same, the post fight interview was bad, not only because the way he looked but he also seemed to be very slow and muttering. I dont doubt he will now have some serious mental promblems later on in his life. Maybe he deseverse it but no one here is in any position to be a judge and to issue a beating like that on anyone, but he is and he did decide to stay in and get his ass beat. He took that for 12 rounds to be redeemed and forgiven. I dont forgive him if he really did know about it (which seems pretty obvious) but I can at least respect that he took the punishment for it in what will end up being the biggest way.
I have absolute zero compassion for the guy. He attempted to cheat again with the hydroxycut. Wtf is a banned subtance doing in his locker room? His team got some explaining to do. I hope they get penalized $3m for it. Same amount that Marg earned for this fight.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Dont get me wrong Margarito got the Karmic beating he had coming to him for eveerything that he has been involved with and the way he has choosen to hide from it and mock it. But I think that him deciding to go through the fight and staying in and taking his lumps after he was being clearly destroyed round after round, gives him a little redemption in my eyes.
He's never going to be the same, the post fight interview was bad, not only because the way he looked but he also seemed to be very slow and muttering. I dont doubt he will now have some serious mental promblems later on in his life. Maybe he deseverse it but no one here is in any position to be a judge and to issue a beating like that on anyone, but he is and he did decide to stay in and get his ass beat. He took that for 12 rounds to be redeemed and forgiven. I dont forgive him if he really did know about it (which seems pretty obvious) but I can at least respect that he took the punishment for it in what will end up being the biggest way.
I have absolute zero compassion for the guy. He attempted to cheat again with the hydroxycut. Wtf is a banned subtance doing in his locker room? His team got some explaining to do.
I hope they get penalized $3m for it. Same amount that Marg earned for this fight.
haha thats super fucked up but fair ;D
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Dont get me wrong Margarito got the Karmic beating he had coming to him for eveerything that he has been involved with and the way he has choosen to hide from it and mock it. But I think that him deciding to go through the fight and staying in and taking his lumps after he was being clearly destroyed round after round, gives him a little redemption in my eyes.
He's never going to be the same, the post fight interview was bad, not only because the way he looked but he also seemed to be very slow and muttering. I dont doubt he will now have some serious mental promblems later on in his life. Maybe he deseverse it but no one here is in any position to be a judge and to issue a beating like that on anyone, but he is and he did decide to stay in and get his ass beat. He took that for 12 rounds to be redeemed and forgiven. I dont forgive him if he really did know about it (which seems pretty obvious) but I can at least respect that he took the punishment for it in what will end up being the biggest way.
I have absolute zero compassion for the guy. He attempted to cheat again with the hydroxycut. Wtf is a banned subtance doing in his locker room? His team got some explaining to do. I hope they get penalized $3m for it. Same amount that Marg earned for this fight.
Maybe it was Brandon Rios' he looked pretty outta shape.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Hope everyone enjoyed that fight and had a great night to go with it.
So after seeing last nights fight what does everyone think about the Cotto fight in hindsight? Did he use illegal wraps in that fight?
If it was later found out that he did use illegal wraps in that fight I wouldnt be surprised, once the whole hand wraps issue came out I actually never doubted that MArgo cheated in that fight as well. However after watching the fight and hearing Pac's post fight interview I started thinking that maybe he didnt use them after all.
Pac moved around and didnt let Margo hit him the way that Cotto did, Cotto took alot of punches and got wore out, Manny wasnt hit as often and when he was he by his own admission was hurt he was just able to take the punches better than Cotto did.
What do you guys think?
Well Margo was a different guy in this fight he weighted 165 in fight night while Pac was 148. This 17lbs makes a difference in Punching Power dept.
I wonder if the fight was at 147
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puya
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Hope everyone enjoyed that fight and had a great night to go with it.
So after seeing last nights fight what does everyone think about the Cotto fight in hindsight? Did he use illegal wraps in that fight?
If it was later found out that he did use illegal wraps in that fight I wouldnt be surprised, once the whole hand wraps issue came out I actually never doubted that MArgo cheated in that fight as well. However after watching the fight and hearing Pac's post fight interview I started thinking that maybe he didnt use them after all.
Pac moved around and didnt let Margo hit him the way that Cotto did, Cotto took alot of punches and got wore out, Manny wasnt hit as often and when he was he by his own admission was hurt he was just able to take the punches better than Cotto did.
What do you guys think?
Well Margo was a different guy in this fight he weighted 165 in fight night while Pac was 148. This 17lbs makes a difference in Punching Power dept.
I wonder if the fight was at 147
It would of ended a lot sooner.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puya
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Hope everyone enjoyed that fight and had a great night to go with it.
So after seeing last nights fight what does everyone think about the Cotto fight in hindsight? Did he use illegal wraps in that fight?
If it was later found out that he did use illegal wraps in that fight I wouldnt be surprised, once the whole hand wraps issue came out I actually never doubted that MArgo cheated in that fight as well. However after watching the fight and hearing Pac's post fight interview I started thinking that maybe he didnt use them after all.
Pac moved around and didnt let Margo hit him the way that Cotto did, Cotto took alot of punches and got wore out, Manny wasnt hit as often and when he was he by his own admission was hurt he was just able to take the punches better than Cotto did.
What do you guys think?
Well Margo was a different guy in this fight he weighted 165 in fight night while Pac was 148. This 17lbs makes a difference in Punching Power dept.
I wonder if the fight was at 147
It would of ended a lot sooner.
Exactly
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
I never for once believed Margarito used hands wraps against Cotto. Especially after actually watching the fight and seeing him walk around the ring during the post fight celebration shaking everyone's hands WITH HIS WRAPS STILL ON. If they were bricks someone would have noticed.
I firmly believe that those that say he cheated against Cotto, only say so because Cotto got his ass whooped.
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Isn't hydroxycut a weight loss substance?
If so, I don't see why he would even want to use it on fight night??
Maybe before the weigh in, but surely it would do more harm than good on the day of the fight?
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
Isn't hydroxycut a weight loss substance?
If so, I don't see why he would even want to use it on fight night??
Maybe before the weigh in, but surely it would do more harm than good on the day of the fight?
or it would just be used to cover up the use of something else
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
I never for once believed Margarito used hands wraps against Cotto. Especially after actually watching the fight and seeing him walk around the ring during the post fight celebration shaking everyone's hands WITH HIS WRAPS STILL ON. If they were bricks someone would have noticed.
I firmly believe that those that say he cheated against Cotto, only say so because Cotto got his ass whooped.
That Cotto fight was Margo's crowning moment, too bad he tarnished it especially considering that he probably was on the up and up on that one.
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I think he had loaded wraps....I mean he did get caught trying to load wraps vs Mosley and I think its safe to assume it wasn't the first time they tried that ESPECIALLY if we're to believe that Margarito didn't know he had his hands wrapped illegally. I mean if he has had as many fights as he's had and had his hands wrapped legally each time then you figure he would feel a difference in the wraps.
Just my opinion
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I think he had loaded wraps....I mean he did get caught trying to load wraps vs Mosley and I think its safe to assume it wasn't the first time they tried that ESPECIALLY if we're to believe that Margarito didn't know he had his hands wrapped illegally. I mean if he has had as many fights as he's had and had his hands wrapped legally each time then you figure he would feel a difference in the wraps.
Just my opinion
The wraps he was caught with where type of plaster that starts soft and hardens as it becomes wet. So it would feel soft at first.
How much money did you lose on the Cotto beat down? Or was it just one where you picked the wrong guy?
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Who's to say?
Nazim Richardson, I believe, played CSI right before the Mosley bout-
WHERE I have to say, my living room & I were heated up, screaming at Mosley to
DROP HIS BURRITO-STUFFIN' ASS!! :lickish:
Anywho...
I know he loaded up against Cotto. I've said it since the night I saw it live.
Oh my God, Cotto may be retarded when it comes to countering & defense
-I feel, he's arrogant & wants to show-off his swirve & how he can take a hit & recover-
but he looked abnormal. I know Margo gave another bout a colliflower ear-
I was impressed, but I was in the dilemma: He coulda stuffed.
Whatever. Who knows, who cares. He lost so let's get over it.
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I didn't bet anything on the fight I'm just not naïve enough to believe Margarito's defense or that he was just going to use them that one time....I mean anyone that believes that is stupid or biased.
I don't know for certain that he used them just like no one (other than Margarito and his former trainer) can say he didn't use them.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I didn't bet anything on the fight I'm just not naïve enough to believe Margarito's defense or that he was just going to use them that one time....I mean anyone that believes that is stupid or biased.
I don't know for certain that he used them just like no one (other than Margarito and his former trainer) can say he didn't use them.
exactly, hell i was one of the guys who picked Margarito over Cotto on here, but it's obvious, why the hell was Margarito gonna cheat in the fight he was the favorite in (Mosley), yet not even think about it in the biggest fight of his career (Cotto) sometimes people can't just put 2 and 2 together
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I didn't bet anything on the fight I'm just not naïve enough to believe Margarito's defense or that he was just going to use them that one time....I mean anyone that believes that is stupid or biased.
I don't know for certain that he used them just like no one (other than Margarito and his former trainer) can say he didn't use them.
exactly, hell i was one of the guys who picked Margarito over Cotto on here, but it's obvious, why the hell was Margarito gonna cheat in the fight he was the favorite in (Mosley), yet not even think about it in the biggest fight of his career (Cotto) sometimes people can't just put 2 and 2 together
And some guys cant take the truth.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
And right about the time Margos wraps started to harden.....it was then that the punches tore Cotto apart. Margo was not dominating.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I didn't bet anything on the fight I'm just not naïve enough to believe Margarito's defense or that he was just going to use them that one time....I mean anyone that believes that is stupid or biased.
I don't know for certain that he used them just like no one (other than Margarito and his former trainer) can say he didn't use them.
exactly, hell i was one of the guys who picked Margarito over Cotto on here, but it's obvious, why the hell was Margarito gonna cheat in the fight he was the favorite in (Mosley), yet not even think about it in the biggest fight of his career (Cotto) sometimes people can't just put 2 and 2 together
Maybe the 2 that needs to be put together is that Margarito with his pressure style vs Cottos' weak chin = no need to cheat.
Where as against Mosely let's see:
Umm Shane has only been hurt once and only after the perfect circumstances of headbutt followed by huge right hand. He's always fought everyone tough and had Cotto running, plus his experience. Translates to: We might need something extra to try and stop a guy that's never been stopped.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I didn't bet anything on the fight I'm just not naïve enough to believe Margarito's defense or that he was just going to use them that one time....I mean anyone that believes that is stupid or biased.
I don't know for certain that he used them just like no one (other than Margarito and his former trainer) can say he didn't use them.
So is pac cheating? Because he fucked Cotto up worse... Not to mention he's beating the bigger men worse than he did the smaller men
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I didn't bet anything on the fight I'm just not naïve enough to believe Margarito's defense or that he was just going to use them that one time....I mean anyone that believes that is stupid or biased.
I don't know for certain that he used them just like no one (other than Margarito and his former trainer) can say he didn't use them.
exactly, hell i was one of the guys who picked Margarito over Cotto on here, but it's obvious, why the hell was Margarito gonna cheat in the fight he was the favorite in (Mosley), yet not even think about it in the biggest fight of his career (Cotto) sometimes people can't just put 2 and 2 together
And some guys cant take the truth.
I just want to float out the idea that perhaps all fighters who load their wraps don't get caught doing it and although I can't say I'm 100% sure that Margarito loaded his wraps vs Cotto you can't say that you're 100% sure he didn't because Margarito was willing to use loaded wraps vs Mosley and by as Manny Pacquiao would say "just common sense" you've got to figure if he did it in a fight where he was a big favorite he probably did it in other fights as well.
I mean Margarito got punished by the California Athletic Commission for a reason, those guys don't had out bans like that (and stick to them) for no damn reason.
I've seen Cotto busted up plenty but never like that...I mean even vs Pacquiao, Cotto didn't look like that, I mean he looked beat up and all but not like he did vs Margarito. Look at the shots he landed on Cotto and then right after that fight look at what Margarito did to Shane Mosley....NOT A GOD DAMN THING.....and guess what we know for a FACT Margarito didn't have loaded wraps vs Shane....so reason it out, it's an easy conclusion to come to.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
So is pac cheating? Because he fucked Cotto up worse... Not to mention he's beating the bigger men worse than he did the smaller men
Maybe maybe not....the steroid/HGH question still looms over Pacquiao but Manny never got caught loading wraps
Stick up for Margarito all you want, may as well stick up for Luis Resto and Panama Lewis while you're at it.....Margarito got CAUGHT and the only reason he's still fighting (or was still fighting) is that he didn't get the chance to use those wraps vs Shane Mosley and for a boxing "fan" to defend Antonio Margarito as a boxer that is just insane to me...I mean why not just put some horse shoes in the gloves and let the fighters go at it and forget any and all pretense of boxing as a sport.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I didn't bet anything on the fight I'm just not naïve enough to believe Margarito's defense or that he was just going to use them that one time....I mean anyone that believes that is stupid or biased.
I don't know for certain that he used them just like no one (other than Margarito and his former trainer) can say he didn't use them.
So is pac cheating? Because he fucked Cotto up worse... Not to mention he's beating the bigger men worse than he did the smaller men
Pac is beating the bigger guys worse cause he's offense is on another level. Plus the fact that he is faster then these guys are use too.
Its hard to say if Tony cheated over Cotto but I can not blame the guys who are accusing him. He does not help himself clear his reputation up. Just like Manny Steward said, this guys are stupid to even put themselves in a position where people may think they are trying to cheat...hence having some kind of drink aside from water in thier locker room. Just poor decisions Tony's camp are making.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
And all the countless right hands and jabs Floyd landed on Shane really took a toll on his face too right?? Must have been because Floyd's gloves weren't loaded.
As well as DLH in his prime and most people for Shane has fought.
Surely no one gets worn down the first round right, it take rounds of heavy body punching, as well as trying reallyyyyy hard to keep someone of of you that big who is constantly in your face. Not only that but obviously, Cotto was trying to take Margarito out with some hard shots.
Call it plaster drying out, but I call it constant pressure from a bigger guy who you CAN'T keep off of you.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
OK question to the people defending Margarito....
Was the Mosley fight the ONLY fight where Antonio Margarito was going to cheat?
Do you guys want me to believe that? I mean we're talking Shane Mosley who just BARELY beat Ricardo Mayorga (a come from behind KO) and Margarito's camp thinks they need plaster of paris wraps to beat that guy??!?!?!
I may have been born at night but I wasn't born last night...in my mind if you're going to cheat once you're of the mindset to do it as many times as you can get away with it.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Compubox would help sort this out too.
Who absorbed more power punches from Marg... Cotto or Pac?
Who landed more power shots against Marg... Cotto or Pac?
I've used the term "power" cuz Mag's jabs are almost useless.
It has something to do with Marg's new coach too. Robert Garcia. Did Tony improved with his supervision?
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Cotto: 280/655 43%
Margarito: 267/987 27%
Cotto: 172/597 29%
Pacquiao: 336/780 43%
There you go....Margarito connects with 27% of all his punches and busts Cotto up worse than Pacquiao did with 69 less punches than Manny too
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
But no one casually points out that Pac is 148 and Marg is 160 plus.....
But when he fights Pac, well that 15 pound difference was why he hurt so much...
Im not trying to defend Margarito (tho it might seem like it).
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Oh and just for fun I'll throw in the Mosley vs Margarito numbers too
Mosley: 178/507 35%
Margarito: 108/485 22%
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
OK question to the people defending Margarito....
Was the Mosley fight the ONLY fight where Antonio Margarito was going to cheat?
Do you guys want me to believe that? I mean we're talking Shane Mosley who just BARELY beat Ricardo Mayorga (a come from behind KO) and Margarito's camp thinks they need plaster of paris wraps to beat that guy??!?!?!
I may have been born at night but I wasn't born last night...in my mind if you're going to cheat once you're of the mindset to do it as many times as you can get away with it.
I really wouldnt say I defend Margarito, I jumped off that band wagon a long time ago, just using the same argument Pac fans use for PAc about the HGH...he has never been caught using it so he must not be using it. Margo was caught on that fight but never before and again how are you gonna walk around the ring and shake everyones hand after the Cotto fight and not worry about being caught? If he did use them that night maybe he really didnt know they were in there or is just that stupid who knows.
Either way a rematch between the two in mid 2011 would be great to watch.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Oh and just for fun I'll throw in the Mosley vs Margarito numbers too
Mosley: 178/507 35%
Margarito: 108/485 22%
Where do you get those numbers? I think they're awesome.
Care to share the links?
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Pacquiao has never been caught smoking Moon rocks before fights either...meanwhile Antonio Margarito was found with loaded wraps ergo it's possbile and even reasonable and rational to assume he's used those before as he was attempting to use them vs Shane Mosley...now he wouldn't be found guilty in the court of law by the evidence I've presented to you but I think we could EASILY reach a verdict of not guilty as opposed to completely innocent.
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Oh and just for fun I'll throw in the Mosley vs Margarito numbers too
Mosley: 178/507 35%
Margarito: 108/485 22%
Where do you get those numbers? I think they're awesome.
Care to share the links?
Sure here you go
Miguel Cotto vs. Antonio Margarito CompuBox Stats
Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto - CompuBox Stats
Shane Mosley sets distractions aside, mauls Antonio Margarito - ESPN
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Thanks man :)
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Re: Pac, Margo, Cotto, Handwraps...
Another question....Who in their right mind willingly takes 280 punches or 43% of the punches from Miguel Cotto thinking they will win?
....I think the answer is someone who knows they have an unfair advantage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-izQ3m_a1c
