Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
People here and there have said that he redeem himself for the loaded gloves incident because of the ass whipping he got from Pac, meaning he didn't quit. This would make sense if he had quit in an earlier fight (I don't think he ever did in his career), but how does that make sense for the loaded gloves incident?
I believe he can redeem himself from the loaded gloves incident, but that comes outside of the ring, imo. It's just considered to be the most egregious offense in boxing one can do to load gloves.
So what do you guys think, did he redeem himself or not for his willingness to take more punishment from Pac when it could have been stopped around the 9th?
(BTW lets keep the topic on Margo and redemption, I really don;t want to get into about Mosley PED usage or allegations of Pac, or something tha't s a different topic.)
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
If you believe he knowing wore doctored wraps or tried to then no, he can never redeam himself. If you believe he knew nothing about it he doesnt need to redeem himself.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
He can NEVER redeem himself as a boxer.....as a person of course he can redeem himself, but not as a boxer. Loading wraps is a line you just don't cross
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
He didn't prove anything that wasn't already known. He has heart in the ring and a granite chin, that is all. And I would respect that in anyone else but him.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Proving that you have heart can't redeem you from having willingly tried to use a weapon in the ring, period.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Fuck man. Didn't he try to cheat again with the banned substance?
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
To a degree, I do think he has redeemed himself.
He wasn't wearing wraps and hurt the best fighter in the world. This suggests to me that he can punch and that he doesn't need wraps to put a dent in someone. He said that he would hurt Manny as though he was wearing wraps and he did. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as none of us knows the truth about whether wraps were used before Mosley or not. Margarito has always denied it and his trainer has taken all responsibility. I now think he busted up Cotto without assistance and think he would do so again. Margarito can punch and doesn't hit like a girl like Roach has suggested. The man can dig. To that extent he has perhaps answered some questions.
I also respect him for giving it his all and never going on his bike or covering up like Clottey, hoping the wasps would just stop stinging. Maybe it was foolish to keep on going, but part of me has to really respect him for it. He has not only taken the suspension, but has also given it his all. You cannot question Margarito's effort. He didn't go out on the canvas like against Mosley, but saw it through to the bitter end.
Margarito is a tough son of a gun and has proven he can go the distance with the best in the world. A little bit like Lamotta/Robinson where Lamotta was crucified. There is something noble in a man who is being pounded like a mashed strawberry, but won't stop coming forward. There is something of Don Quixote in the madness, and that's a great quality.
Margarito has paid his dues IMO. He should now be left alone.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
To a degree, I do think he has redeemed himself.
He wasn't wearing wraps and hurt the best fighter in the world. This suggests to me that he can punch and that he doesn't need wraps to put a dent in someone. He said that he would hurt Manny as though he was wearing wraps and he did. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as none of us knows the truth about whether wraps were used before Mosley or not. Margarito has always denied it and his trainer has taken all responsibility. I now think he busted up Cotto without assistance and think he would do so again. Margarito can punch and doesn't hit like a girl like Roach has suggested. The man can dig. To that extent he has perhaps answered some questions.
I also respect him for giving it his all and never going on his bike or covering up like Clottey, hoping the wasps would just stop stinging. Maybe it was foolish to keep on going, but part of me has to really respect him for it. He has not only taken the suspension, but has also given it his all. You cannot question Margarito's effort. He didn't go out on the canvas like against Mosley, but saw it through to the bitter end.
Margarito is a tough son of a gun and has proven he can go the distance with the best in the world. A little bit like Lamotta/Robinson where Lamotta was crucified. There is something noble in a man who is being pounded like a mashed strawberry, but won't stop coming forward. There is something of Don Quixote in the madness, and that's a great quality.
Margarito has paid his dues IMO. He should now be left alone.
I know where you're coming from, to me PARTIALLY he has redeem himself. I did mentioned that it has to be also outside of the ring. Meaning he should say he messed up or admit guilt or whatever, sure that's probably career suicide, but he's getting around 6 mill (when you factor in a cut of the PPV sales) for probably his last big fight.
Maybe I'm just a big softy, I thought I would enjoy seeing Margo get a beat down like that, but after a while I was thinking the guy's corner or ref needed to stop it.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
To a degree, I do think he has redeemed himself.
He wasn't wearing wraps and hurt the best fighter in the world. This suggests to me that he can punch and that he doesn't need wraps to put a dent in someone. He said that he would hurt Manny as though he was wearing wraps and he did. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as none of us knows the truth about whether wraps were used before Mosley or not. Margarito has always denied it and his trainer has taken all responsibility. I now think he busted up Cotto without assistance and think he would do so again. Margarito can punch and doesn't hit like a girl like Roach has suggested. The man can dig. To that extent he has perhaps answered some questions.
I also respect him for giving it his all and never going on his bike or covering up like Clottey, hoping the wasps would just stop stinging. Maybe it was foolish to keep on going, but part of me has to really respect him for it. He has not only taken the suspension, but has also given it his all. You cannot question Margarito's effort. He didn't go out on the canvas like against Mosley, but saw it through to the bitter end.
Margarito is a tough son of a gun and has proven he can go the distance with the best in the world. A little bit like Lamotta/Robinson where Lamotta was crucified. There is something noble in a man who is being pounded like a mashed strawberry, but won't stop coming forward. There is something of Don Quixote in the madness, and that's a great quality.
Margarito has paid his dues IMO. He should now be left alone.
I know where you're coming from, to me PARTIALLY he has redeem himself. I did mentioned that it has to be also outside of the ring. Meaning he should say he messed up or admit guilt or whatever, sure that's probably career suicide, but he's getting around 6 mill (when you factor in a cut of the PPV sales) for probably his last big fight.
Maybe I'm just a big softy, I thought I would enjoy seeing Margo get a beat down like that, but after a while I was thinking the guy's corner or ref needed to stop it.
But if the man really feels he has done no wrong then what can you do? We have nothing hard on him directly in terms of evidence. His trainer has already taken the 'wrap' (ahem). Someone else has also pointed out that after the Cotto fight he was walking around with his wraps open to the full view of the world. Not a hint of guilt in him. Maybe there were no dodgy wraps, maybe he didn't know....maybe they were there and everyone was too blind to see it. Maybe there were dodgy wraps and everyone else in every single one of his fights was too blind to see it too. We really don't know and if the man swears blind, then there isn't much you can do. He could just be telling the truth. I don't know either, but through pain comes redemption and you sense that Margarito has suffered a fair bit of pain and more so after that beat down.
I was the same regarding the fight. After the 8th I began to get a bit bored with the actual fight as it was becoming too one sided. Margarito was coming back with less and he looked awful in terms of the damage around the face. It should have been stopped, I actually began to feel a bit sorry for him, but at the same time wanted him to just see it through. But for sure, it should have been stopped. That damage was just far too much.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Miles Margarito and his former trainer were banned for a reason. #1 What do you expect them to say about the wraps? The truth? I don't think so #2 Why did they have the plaster of paris wraps anyway??? I mean is it just me or is that something that a boxing trainer shouldn't have in his bag EVER much less the night of a big fight.
1) Maybe that's where I am just too nice. A fighter denies it and always denies it, but serves the penalty, what can you do? Why did nobody look at Cotto's face and then check the wraps after the fight? They were open and there for the world to see. It is up to the corner to check the wraps, are we to assume that no corner ever checked Margarito's wraps? It sounds crazy because that's surely an automatic thing for an opposing camp to do before a fight. Is it only Richardson that checks wraps? If Margarito denies it then that is his truth. We can all argue against it, but those arguments are all circumstantial.
2) No, it should never have been there. They were banned for good reason and apparently the trainer is still pretty much blacklisted. But if Margarito is going to fight and the wraps are checked then I have no issues with him fighting on.
A beating like that makes me want to just take a step back and say "that's enough". We can go back and forth forever on this. But I am a guy that is willing to forgive and move on. Margarito can punch and hurt the best, that makes me believe he can do it to lesser fighters too. If he had only tapped Manny then I would be full of more doubts, but as it stands, I am not.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
1 thing's for sure, Margo is extremely lucky that he lucked out on a 6 million jackpot and didn't get charged and convicted then sent to prison like Luis Resto. Although thinking about it, the 6 million and air time notoriety on 24/7 isn't worth the beating 1 takes from Pacquiao. Especially about having orbital bones broken.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
I think he proved that he doesn't need wraps to beat anyone. He also stood in there and fought for the whole 12 rounds and wasn't running for the last half of the fight like Cotto, which also clearly points out that he's both stronger and hits harder than Cotto, because they basically have the same style, Margarito is just much more relentless.
What's funny is that everyone is only citing that he cheated in the Miguel Cotto fight, not cintron, clottey, williams, johnson. Speaking of Johnson and Cintron. Supposedly that plaster was the type that hardens as his hand begins to sweat later in the fight...but he walked through Johnson in 1 round. And beat Cintron in 5 then 6 rounds so what's the theory? Either Margarito was always cheating or he only did against Cotto. I seriously doubt that one would suggest with Margo's style vs Cotto's weak chin that he would need something extra. That shit has always been laughable.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Miles Margarito and his former trainer were banned for a reason. #1 What do you expect them to say about the wraps? The truth? I don't think so #2 Why did they have the plaster of paris wraps anyway??? I mean is it just me or is that something that a boxing trainer shouldn't have in his bag EVER much less the night of a big fight.
1) Maybe that's where I am just too nice. A fighter denies it and always denies it, but serves the penalty, what can you do? Why did nobody look at Cotto's face and then check the wraps after the fight? They were open and there for the world to see. It is up to the corner to check the wraps, are we to assume that no corner ever checked Margarito's wraps? It sounds crazy because that's surely an automatic thing for an opposing camp to do before a fight. Is it only Richardson that checks wraps? If Margarito denies it then that is his truth. We can all argue against it, but those arguments are all circumstantial.
2) No, it should never have been there. They were banned for good reason and apparently the trainer is still pretty much blacklisted. But if Margarito is going to fight and the wraps are checked then I have no issues with him fighting on.
A beating like that makes me want to just take a step back and say "that's enough". We can go back and forth forever on this. But I am a guy that is willing to forgive and move on. Margarito can punch and hurt the best, that makes me believe he can do it to lesser fighters too. If he had only tapped Manny then I would be full of more doubts, but as it stands, I am not.
I pretty much agree with your first post. except for leaving him alone. There will be no degree of forgiveness he will ever receive from some people. They have their opinion. He showed us his heart in two ways. He has the heart of a champion but he also bears the heart of evil. "Pretending" to be apathetic about the hand wraps and mocking Roach with his antics is deplorable. To me this is not the act of an innocent or concerned man. He even failed to admit this was a mistake. Then he tried to cover it up by saying he didn't know Roach had Parkinson's. Just how stupid does he think people are?
I too have petty for the man getting the shit beat out of him, but there is also a measure of justice and retribution I feel is necessary. He had no chance after the 10th round and should have quit so perhaps he actually felt the need to be punished. That might satisfy the retribution but in order to receive forgiveness, he has to admit or accept his guilt. He may have done his time but the Commission felt he had no remorse, or that he didn't accept responsibility for not trying to stop a crime most believe he knew was going to take place. Otherwise they would have given him a license back. So if they do not feel he deserves redemption, then why should I?
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Miles Margarito and his former trainer were banned for a reason. #1 What do you expect them to say about the wraps? The truth? I don't think so #2 Why did they have the plaster of paris wraps anyway??? I mean is it just me or is that something that a boxing trainer shouldn't have in his bag EVER much less the night of a big fight.
1) Maybe that's where I am just too nice. A fighter denies it and always denies it, but serves the penalty, what can you do? Why did nobody look at Cotto's face and then check the wraps after the fight? They were open and there for the world to see. It is up to the corner to check the wraps, are we to assume that no corner ever checked Margarito's wraps? It sounds crazy because that's surely an automatic thing for an opposing camp to do before a fight. Is it only Richardson that checks wraps? If Margarito denies it then that is his truth. We can all argue against it, but those arguments are all circumstantial.
2) No, it should never have been there. They were banned for good reason and apparently the trainer is still pretty much blacklisted. But if Margarito is going to fight and the wraps are checked then I have no issues with him fighting on.
A beating like that makes me want to just take a step back and say "that's enough". We can go back and forth forever on this. But I am a guy that is willing to forgive and move on. Margarito can punch and hurt the best, that makes me believe he can do it to lesser fighters too. If he had only tapped Manny then I would be full of more doubts, but as it stands, I am not.
I pretty much agree with your first post. except for leaving him alone. There will be no degree of forgiveness he will ever receive from some people. They have their opinion. He showed us his heart in two ways. He has the heart of a champion but he also bears the heart of evil. "Pretending" to be apathetic about the hand wraps and mocking Roach with his antics is deplorable. To me this is not the act of an innocent or concerned man. He even failed to admit this was a mistake. Then he tried to cover it up by saying he didn't know Roach had Parkinson's. Just how stupid does he think people are?
I too have petty for the man getting the shit beat out of him, but there is also a measure of justice and retribution I feel is necessary. He had no chance after the 10th round and should have quit so perhaps he actually felt the need to be punished. That might satisfy the retribution but in order to receive forgiveness, he has to admit or accept his guilt. He may have done his time but the Commission felt he had no remorse, or that he didn't accept responsibility for not trying to stop a crime most believe he knew was going to take place. Otherwise they would have given him a license back. So if they do not feel he deserves redemption, then why should I?
He did not mock Freddie Roach. He has no reason to apologise for that whatsover.
You simply watch too much mainstream TV and believe what you see. Like most muppets in fact, so I don't blame you for this. But in terms of this argument, you are completely wrong.
Margarito responded to a question and was simply saying that Roach is scary. That is what really happened. Sure Rios overstepped the line and Garcia wasn't too cool. But Margarito actually did nothing wrong here.
You talk about accepting guilt? But the man denies any wrongdoing. Maybe someone should get him drunk and do a Hatton on him and make him confess but the guy seems pretty resolute to me.
Until proven guilty again, you have to let him go.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Taking a beating doesn't erase the fact he's a dirty cheating cunt. Even if he was killed he would still be a dirty cheating cunt.
Every comment I read about "Margarito is showing great heart" I thought was pathetic. There was never any doubt he couldn't absorb serious punishment.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
He did not mock Freddie Roach.
Yes he did.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Margarito should have never even been able to get the chance to redeem himself in the first place....they should have let pac go back in the locker room after the 6th and load his gloves with that same "harmless" pad and finish the fight with them. He deserved that legal ass kicking. Pac eased up on him. I don't remember him doing the same for cotto. I know i know, tony didn't know about the wraps and there are prisons full of guys who didn't do shit either, go ask em all thier cases were someone else's fault too
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Miles Margarito and his former trainer were banned for a reason. #1 What do you expect them to say about the wraps? The truth? I don't think so #2 Why did they have the plaster of paris wraps anyway??? I mean is it just me or is that something that a boxing trainer shouldn't have in his bag EVER much less the night of a big fight.
1) Maybe that's where I am just too nice. A fighter denies it and always denies it, but serves the penalty, what can you do? Why did nobody look at Cotto's face and then check the wraps after the fight? They were open and there for the world to see. It is up to the corner to check the wraps, are we to assume that no corner ever checked Margarito's wraps? It sounds crazy because that's surely an automatic thing for an opposing camp to do before a fight. Is it only Richardson that checks wraps? If Margarito denies it then that is his truth. We can all argue against it, but those arguments are all circumstantial.
2) No, it should never have been there. They were banned for good reason and apparently the trainer is still pretty much blacklisted. But if Margarito is going to fight and the wraps are checked then I have no issues with him fighting on.
A beating like that makes me want to just take a step back and say "that's enough". We can go back and forth forever on this. But I am a guy that is willing to forgive and move on. Margarito can punch and hurt the best, that makes me believe he can do it to lesser fighters too. If he had only tapped Manny then I would be full of more doubts, but as it stands, I am not.
I pretty much agree with your first post. except for leaving him alone. There will be no degree of forgiveness he will ever receive from some people. They have their opinion. He showed us his heart in two ways. He has the heart of a champion but he also bears the heart of evil. "Pretending" to be apathetic about the hand wraps and mocking Roach with his antics is deplorable. To me this is not the act of an innocent or concerned man. He even failed to admit this was a mistake. Then he tried to cover it up by saying he didn't know Roach had Parkinson's. Just how stupid does he think people are?
I too have petty for the man getting the shit beat out of him, but there is also a measure of justice and retribution I feel is necessary. He had no chance after the 10th round and should have quit so perhaps he actually felt the need to be punished. That might satisfy the retribution but in order to receive forgiveness, he has to admit or accept his guilt. He may have done his time but the Commission felt he had no remorse, or that he didn't accept responsibility for not trying to stop a crime most believe he knew was going to take place. Otherwise they would have given him a license back. So if they do not feel he deserves redemption, then why should I?
He did not mock Freddie Roach. He has no reason to apologise for that whatsover.
You simply watch too much mainstream TV and believe what you see. Like most muppets in fact, so I don't blame you for this. But in terms of this argument, you are completely wrong.
Margarito responded to a question and was simply saying that Roach is scary. That is what really happened. Sure Rios overstepped the line and Garcia wasn't too cool. But Margarito actually did nothing wrong here.
You talk about accepting guilt? But the man denies any wrongdoing. Maybe someone should get him drunk and do a Hatton on him and make him confess but the guy seems pretty resolute to me.
Until proven guilty again, you have to let him go.
Well, I looked at the original fan house video before it went viral and it looked exactly like mocking to me and it was explained as mocking. Putting a brick on your hands as if you are innocent of wrong doing when your license was revoked because of it is absolutely lunacy. He is obviously 'pretending' not to care. You say his antics were mimicking Roach being scared? So then tell me, why does he laugh so hard at Rio's Mocking Roach? It's con game dude, wake up!
If you got into a car and the driver was drunk off his ass and you did nothing to stop the accident sure to happen, you'd be as guilty as the driver. So you don't need to tell me the man is not guilty, it's my opinion. why? The commissions job is to enforce the rules. They looked at the 'evidence' and made an 'informed judgment'. The man was found guilty by the commission and given a penalty for it. If there was any doubt they wouldn't have revoked his license. Bob Arum is the only person ever to say there was no evidence that Margarito 'knew' he had loaded wraps. The fact is his wraps were loaded, and Margarito just 'claims' he didn't know. No one can 'prove' what someone is thinking or believes. This is just Lawyer speak to cast doubt. You choose to believe him. I say his actions speak volumes more than his words. You have to remember Arum is a Lawyer.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
I believe Margarito is dumb enough to not know if someone wrapped his hands with illegal pads. I wonder if Kermit Cintron is starting to wonder if he could redeem himself. Cotto and Cintron are both viable rematchs for Margarito.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
I think Marg wanted to take a beating to redeem himself to the public.
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Marg wanted to take a beating to redeem himself to the public.
if that was the case, he got it half right. ;D
Re: Did Margarito redeem himself in the ring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Marg wanted to take a beating to redeem himself to the public.
He thought it was holy friday in the Philippines. Get tortured so he can wash away his sins like these ex-cons.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2308/...8e71457e_o.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...maleldo110.jpg
