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Jean Pascal
Jermain Taylor
Andre Dirrell
Artur Abraham
Only defeat, a close, maybe desputed decision to Kessler.
On resume he has to be top 10.
On resume he HAS to be above Nonito Donaire, although of course that will never happen.
I think he has done enough now to be in the top 10, only behind Floyd, Manny, Martinez, Dirrell, and maybe Williams, and Marquez if he wins tonight.
You can argue for him being lower because you don't like him but he HAS to highly rated on the p4p rankings now.
I'd have Froch probably at #10 I guess.
I made a list the other day, I'll see if I can find it.
Edit: After looking at my last list, I decided to make a new one.
1. Pacquiao
2. Mayweather
3. Martinez
4. Ward
5. JM Marquez
6. Monteil
7. Bradley
8. Pascal
9. JM Lopez
10. Froch (maybe?)
The top three are the only clear-cut choices for their positions IMO.
Edit x2: You have Dirrell in your top 5?
Why not top 10? Name me a fighter that fights that quality of opposition and doesn't haggle over catch weights. Froch has been facing opponents with 0's or else have been coming off of very decent recent wins. The Kessler fight could have gone either way too.
Froch is clearly the best fighter Britain has right now.
Oh hell no, I meant Ward. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I forgot Montiel and Bradley. I'd have Froch above Pascal simply because he beat him decisively when they fought.
Of course you'd have him above Froch, because he's Canadian ;)
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboOh hell no, I meant Ward. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I forgot Montiel and Bradley. I'd have Froch above Pascal simply because he beat him decisively when they fought.
Of course you'd have him above Froch, because he's Canadian ;)
I absolutely loathed Pascal for the longest time. I felt, and still feel, that he called out Miranda and then ducked him, but he's slowly won me over. I'd have him about Froch because a) I feel that his victory over Dawson is more impressive than anything Froch has yet accomplished, and b) Even though he lost to Froch, I feel that Pascal is the better fighter today. I'd absolutely love to see a rematch though, but I doubt it happens because I believe they became close friends and training-partners following their fight.
I'm acutally a fan of Pascal. He took his loss like a man, made no excuses, learnt from it and improved. He has my respect, unlike Bad Chad who after being upset by Pascal himself just whined about how hard done by he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboOh hell no, I meant Ward. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I forgot Montiel and Bradley. I'd have Froch above Pascal simply because he beat him decisively when they fought.
Of course you'd have him above Froch, because he's Canadian ;)
I absolutely loathed Pascal for the longest time. I felt, and still feel, that he called out Miranda and then ducked him, but he's slowly won me over. I'd have him about Froch because a) I feel that his victory over Dawson is more impressive than anything Froch has yet accomplished, and b) Even though he lost to Froch, I feel that Pascal is the better fighter today. I'd absolutely love to see a rematch though, but I doubt it happens because I believe they became close friends and training-partners following their fight.
Pascall comes across as a consummate professional imo.
I'm a big fan of his now, but it took a long time for him to win me over after the Miranda debacle.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI'm acutally a fan of Pascal. He took his loss like a man, made no excuses, learnt from it and improved. He has my respect, unlike Bad Chad who after being upset by Pascal himself just whined about how hard done by he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboOh hell no, I meant Ward. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I forgot Montiel and Bradley. I'd have Froch above Pascal simply because he beat him decisively when they fought.
Of course you'd have him above Froch, because he's Canadian ;)
I absolutely loathed Pascal for the longest time. I felt, and still feel, that he called out Miranda and then ducked him, but he's slowly won me over. I'd have him about Froch because a) I feel that his victory over Dawson is more impressive than anything Froch has yet accomplished, and b) Even though he lost to Froch, I feel that Pascal is the better fighter today. I'd absolutely love to see a rematch though, but I doubt it happens because I believe they became close friends and training-partners following their fight.
Pascall comes across as a consummate professional imo.
David Haye supporters will disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Beating Audley Harrison actually loses credibility. Haye dropped down from the top spot for taking that fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogDavid Haye supporters will disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Froch should definitely be in the top 10. There aren't many fighters who have fought the quality of opposition he has of late and beaten them to boot. I'm too lazy to make a list, but he'd be in my top 10 comfortably
P4P is not only about resumee but about performance. He lost to Dirrell imo, lost to kessler. looked bad against taylor. Looked average against Pacal.
But he did in fact look good against Abraham. Still I wouldnt have him in my top 20 .
Well in my own personal opinion, i thought he lost clearly to Dirrell, Kessler. But based on the record books i think he could slot in at number 10.
1 Manny Pacquiao
2 Floyd Mayweather Jr
3 Juan Manuel Marquez
4 Sergio Martinez
5 Fernando Montiel
6 Pongsaklek Wongjongkam
7 Wladimir Klitschko
8 Timothy Bradley
9 Juan Manuel Lopez
10 Anselmo Moreno
This was my P4P list.
1 Manny Pacquiao
2 Floyd Mayweather Jr
3 Juan Manuel Marquez
4 Sergio Martinez
5 Fernando Montiel
6 Pongsaklek Wongjongkam
7 Wladimir Klitschko
8 Timothy Bradley
9 Juan Manuel Lopez
10 Carl Froch
Have Carl Froch replace Anselmo Moreno.
1: Pacquiao
2: Mayweather
3: JMM
4: Montiel
5: Martinez
6: Froch
So, yes 6th.
He easily plugs into Klitschko's spot, that is certain.
I'm a new convert and beliver in two guys recently froch and butte. Froch earns my respect for even sticking it out in the tourney among some of these so called other great fighters who weasled their way out by one way or another. But I don't see froch as a top ten pfp fighter when I can't even really say for sure he's even the best in his division. It's also funny to see some put direll on his resume as a good thing now but go on about how he is one of the worst fighters earlier. Whatever ....main thing is I gave froch no chance at beating Kessler and he kinda almost did in a way I guess. But I gave him less chance of beating Abraham and he beat his ass in not only his own way but probably worse than direll. I'm a know it all and say ward and butte are the two who are in the running for the best but I'd put froch up there third. Pfp ward's probably the only guy that should be up there at 10th. But I also believe there's really no such thing as a right or wrong pfp list with how screwed up ratings and belts are and the people " in the know" voting for who they like not who the better boxer is
Froch's performance yesterday was very impressive. He's quick, flashy, and very intelligent fighter. But wherever he is right now regarding p4p status, Bute for me is still ahead of him.
not above Nonito ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Not really. Since their fight Pascal has 3 very good wins over good opposition and other wins against ho-hum opposition. He does have a good win over one guy who was considered a top P4P'erQuote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Froch has had mixed results. He has had some very good wins over good opposition but he still has a loss. He looked great yesterday and I do believe he earned a spot.
Goes to show that Froch and Pascal are warriors. They will fight again.
#Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanrwNot really. Since their fight Pascal has 3 very good wins over good opposition and other wins against ho-hum opposition. He does have a good win over one guy who was considered a top P4P'erQuote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Froch has had mixed results. He has had some very good wins over good opposition but he still has a loss. He looked great yesterday and I do believe he earned a spot.
Goes to show that Froch and Pascal are warriors. They will fight again.
NAH!
You are right though i think at some point they will meet again, but to be honest I think the out come will be the same. I think the outcome of the Hopkins fight will have a big effect on Pascal's P4P rating one way or the other...
Jesus Christ, where the hell have you been hiding? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by DeanrwNot really. Since their fight Pascal has 3 very good wins over good opposition and other wins against ho-hum opposition. He does have a good win over one guy who was considered a top P4P'erQuote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Froch has had mixed results. He has had some very good wins over good opposition but he still has a loss. He looked great yesterday and I do believe he earned a spot.
Goes to show that Froch and Pascal are warriors. They will fight again.
Froch's resume including his level of opposition and his win over Pascal puts him above him.
I explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
I saw the Dawson fight. Pascal in my view, is freaking rugged. He gets off balance sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Froch is technically better.
If he was, wouldn't he have beaten Froch when they fought? Surely Froch's wins over Dirrell, Taylor and Abraham are better than or at least as good as Pascal's wins over Diaconu (x2) and an upset win over Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
So pascal beating dawson is better than Froch beating pascal? SillllllllyyyyyyyQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onoIf he was, wouldn't he have beaten Froch when they fought? Surely Froch's wins over Dirrell, Taylor and Abraham are better than or at least as good as Pascal's wins over Diaconu (x2) and an upset win over Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerSo pascal beating dawson is better than Froch beating pascal? SillllllllyyyyyyyQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
The Froch fight made Pascal the fighter he is today. He's a much better fighter now than he was then.
Do you buy into stuff like that? I always think Pascal will struggle with someone who constantly opens up on him. Dawson could have had him out of there in the 11th if he'd have been smarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHQuote:
Originally Posted by onoIf he was, wouldn't he have beaten Froch when they fought? Surely Froch's wins over Dirrell, Taylor and Abraham are better than or at least as good as Pascal's wins over Diaconu (x2) and an upset win over Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerSo pascal beating dawson is better than Froch beating pascal? SillllllllyyyyyyyQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
The Froch fight made Pascal the fighter he is today. He's a much better fighter now than he was then.
I rate Pascal but i see absolutely nothing to suggest he'd get any closer to beating Froch than he did 2 years ago. Only my opinion though mate.
Pascal's win over Dawson was very good, but Dawson has only been fighting old men recently himself. Froch meanwhile has beaten Pascal and also a string of other top fighters. I've also come to the conclusion that the Kessler fight could have gone either way. On that basis I would have Froch above Pascal, though both fighters have really proven their mantle over the last 18 months.
I think CFH had Froch beating Kessler, as did i I. I'm glad more people are seeing the light. Having said that, i had Dirrell biking his way to a UD against Froch so it's evened itself up.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Yeah, I had Froch winning by a couple of rounds against Kessler. But, like you, I had Dirrell beating him so I feel, if nothing else, his record is accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoI think CFH had Froch beating Kessler, as did i I. I'm glad more people are seeing the light. Having said that, i had Dirrell biking his way to a UD against Froch so it's evened itself up.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I do in Pascal's case. He's said as much himself. They've also trained/sparred together since their fight, so they seem to feel that they learn a lot by beating on each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoDo you buy into stuff like that? I always think Pascal will struggle with someone who constantly opens up on him. Dawson could have had him out of there in the 11th if he'd have been smarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHQuote:
Originally Posted by onoIf he was, wouldn't he have beaten Froch when they fought? Surely Froch's wins over Dirrell, Taylor and Abraham are better than or at least as good as Pascal's wins over Diaconu (x2) and an upset win over Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerSo pascal beating dawson is better than Froch beating pascal? SillllllllyyyyyyyQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
The Froch fight made Pascal the fighter he is today. He's a much better fighter now than he was then.
I rate Pascal but i see absolutely nothing to suggest he'd get any closer to beating Froch than he did 2 years ago. Only my opinion though mate.
I don't know if he would beat Froch if they fought again, they've both grown as fighters since then, but I'd love to see the fight.
Yeah that is true. It was one hell of a fight. I wouldn't mind watching it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI do in Pascal's case. He's said as much himself. They've also trained/sparred together since their fight, so they seem to feel that they learn a lot by beating on each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoDo you buy into stuff like that? I always think Pascal will struggle with someone who constantly opens up on him. Dawson could have had him out of there in the 11th if he'd have been smarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHQuote:
Originally Posted by onoIf he was, wouldn't he have beaten Froch when they fought? Surely Froch's wins over Dirrell, Taylor and Abraham are better than or at least as good as Pascal's wins over Diaconu (x2) and an upset win over Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerSo pascal beating dawson is better than Froch beating pascal? SillllllllyyyyyyyQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI explained my reasoning in another post, Pascal's win over Dawson is better than any Froch victory and I feel that Pascal is also the better, more complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
froch beat Pascal so how can you put him beneath him? That's silly.
The Froch fight made Pascal the fighter he is today. He's a much better fighter now than he was then.
I rate Pascal but i see absolutely nothing to suggest he'd get any closer to beating Froch than he did 2 years ago. Only my opinion though mate.
I don't know if he would beat Froch if they fought again, they've both grown as fighters since then, but I'd love to see the fight.
Who has a better resume Ward or Froch?
Hard one that as Ward beat Kessler and he beat Froch depends how you look at it I think the Pascal win in hindsight is better than the Kessler win as Kessler has never been the outright champ and Pascal is now the man at 175, Kessler has never been p4p top ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
It is all opinions but fight by fight Froch Resume is much better but the crucial win is Wards v Kessler many thought Kessler was the number 1 when Ward beat him.
I think Froch has a very good case to be above Martinez
does beating Paul Williams at middleweight make you so highly rated p4p? a paul williams who made his name at welterweight?
Paul Williams made his name in defeating Antonio Margarito (147) Vernon Phillips (154), Winky Wright (160), and Sergio Martinez (160). He's been dominant in all three weight divisions. Probably moreso even above 147. I think he's best at 154. That may be just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Wins over Kelly Pavlik and Paul Williams will make Sergio fighter of the year.
Depending on how Pascal does against Hopkins imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratPaul Williams made his name in defeating Antonio Margarito (147) Vernon Phillips (154), Winky Wright (160), and Sergio Martinez (160). He's been dominant in all three weight divisions. Probably moreso even above 147. I think he's best at 154. That may be just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Wins over Kelly Pavlik and Paul Williams will make Sergio fighter of the year.
On paper it's Froch, but when you watch the fights I think it's pretty clear that Ward is more impressive. Froch has a win over Dirrell but it's not actually a win in my opinion. In fact I thought it was the biggest robbery of last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
As for my P4P list.
1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Bradley
4. Ward
5. Martinez
6. Marquez
7. JML
8. Bute
9. Montiel
10. Froch
That's who I think the best fighters are, I don't rely nearly as much as others on resume. Everything looks the same on paper but to put Froch at 10 is a GIANT GIANT GIANT GIANT step for me and evidence that he has proved me a lot more then just a little bit wrong.
I agree with that definitely, aside from Froch's last fight. Before he was just far too risky and it seemed like he could be knocked out anytime with his low hands and batterings he took (yet managed to endure)Quote:
Originally Posted by amatOn paper it's Froch, but when you watch the fights I think it's pretty clear that Ward is more impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Can't wait for Froch Ward when it happens ;D I hope Hennessy sorts himself and makes it available on TV too.