If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
no catch weights no additional demands just an alls fair lightweight world title fight
if he lost would he still have the same pulling power?
would the critics come down harder on him because for the first time in a while there had been no additional demands on his opponent?
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
no catch weights no additional demands just an alls fair lightweight world title fight
if he lost would he still have the same pulling power?
would the critics come down harder on him because for the first time in a while there had been no additional demands on his opponent?
Well for 1 thing, since Pac has that kind of pulling power, why would he go down to LW in the 1st place to fight Marquez? The fight would be on his terms not Marquez.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
I don't think it comes down to demands. Demands can be accepted or refused before a fight commences.
It just comes down to pure boxing ability. Marquez has(or very likely had) the answer.
So if Pac lost at Lightweight, I'd say it was simply because the better man won... Yet again.
I doubt Pac would loose though. I think Pac would annihilate him now. (if he could make 135)
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
If it was a very competitive fight and he lost a close decision no. If he were to be totally out classed and dominated or even knocked out yes. The casual boxing fan is a fair weather fan just waiting to jock the next champ.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
Fighting JMM is a win/win for Pacman. If he lose(because the better man won), then a 4th fight will be on the levels of Manny vs Floyd(maybe). If he win, then and questions will be answered.
Make the fight!!!
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
As if Pac would ever go to that weight. That would be the real gentlemanly thing to do, but Pac is no gent and boxing has no morals.
Sure, the bubble would burst, but nobody is blowing that bubble.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
As if Pac would ever go to that weight. That would be the real gentlemanly thing to do, but Pac is no gent and boxing has no morals.
Sure, the bubble would burst, but nobody is blowing that bubble.
Manny's last fight was for the junior middleweight title, albiet at 150 lbs, so we will say two and a half divisions above lightweight.
Please remind me what fighters Manny made drop two and a half divisions to fight him?
Oscar moved back to 147 from his previous fight at 150 against Forbes, Cotto gave up a pound, and Margarito was a career welterweight who, if you don'tcount his comeback against a nobody, actually gained 4 lbs for the fight with Manny.
His other fights, all won by domination were against Diaz, Hatton and Clottey, all at their chosen weight classes with no concessions asked for.
But all of that was unfair, whereas it would be fine, indeed gentlemanly for Marquez to drag him down two and half weight divisions and 15 lbs to lightweight?
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
No the "bubble" would not burst because 1 loss does not define a fighter or his career.
(Unless your name is Naseem Hamed then it does)
It's cliche but styles make fights.
Duran beat SRL
SRL beat Hearns
Hearns beat Duran
So Pac loosing would only make the JMM-Pac saga that much more interesting.
After Erik lost a 3rd fight with MAB people still wanted to see him fight and he goes on to beat Pac in a brilliant performance.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
As if Pac would ever go to that weight. That would be the real gentlemanly thing to do, but Pac is no gent and boxing has no morals.
Sure, the bubble would burst, but nobody is blowing that bubble.
Manny's last fight was for the junior middleweight title, albiet at 150 lbs, so we will say two and a half divisions above lightweight.
Please remind me what fighters Manny made drop two and a half divisions to fight him?
Oscar moved back to 147 from his previous fight at 150 against Forbes, Cotto gave up a pound, and Margarito was a career welterweight who, if you don'tcount his comeback against a nobody, actually gained 4 lbs for the fight with Manny.
His other fights, all won by domination were against Diaz, Hatton and Clottey, all at their chosen weight classes with no concessions asked for.
But all of that was unfair, whereas it would be fine, indeed gentlemanly for Marquez to drag him down two and half weight divisions and 15 lbs to lightweight?
Going down to 135 is probably too much to ask. However, if they are to fight it should at least be no higher than 140. Marquez would be making more than his share of the effort in doing that and would no doubt be taking less of the money as well. Otherwise, they should just not bother with it.
We all frowned upon Mayweather for picking on a LW and now that Manny has grown into the higher weights, we should frown on him doing exactly the same to exactly the same opponent.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
this fight may happen only beacuse maywathers to worried to fight pac.........if pacman lost it would be the end of any fight with mayweather ( not that is goner happen anyway, fat floyd wont take the fight ) floyd will say " see i didnt need to fight him, he's not that good "
i would expect manny to win and win well this time around but you never know
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
no catch weights no additional demands just an alls fair lightweight world title fight
if he lost would he still have the same pulling power?
would the critics come down harder on him because for the first time in a while there had been no additional demands on his opponent?
Well i think JMM beat Manny Pacquiao twice, so it would make no difference to me. It just means JMM is a bad style match up for Manny Pacquiao. Which he proved twice because JMM fought the one dimensional Manny Pacquiao, and the improved two handed boxer version of Manny Pacquiao.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
If JMM beats pac - that should put JMM as one of the best p4p fighter of all time.
JMM said it doesn't matter which division the third fight with pac would be. I think if JMM beats pac at 135 - it would be big, if JMM beats pac at 140 it would be huge, if JMM beats pac at 147 now that would be GIGANTIC!
Now if pac beats JMM I think that win would only further prove Pac is not the same fighter JMM fought in the first two fights. However if pac beats JMM at 135 - I think that would prove, pac is still as great even when he does have to go down in weight.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
I kind of find it funny how the fight MUST be at 147 or 145 and such they say for Manny.
When always leading up to his fights against bigger men they say they have to feed him a lot of food just to make him make the weight and he still winds up in the lower 140s at the weigh ins.
If he has to eat like a horse to make 144 then what's the problem of eating right and making 140? Roach says he is naturaly walk around at 140 anyway so what's the problem of making a catch weight like 138?
It's funny how people make it sound like manny would be giving up 15 pounds to move all the way down to 135. He wouldn't. He wasn't weighing 150, his opponents were, and he had to eat like crazy to make 144 even. So why is it he has so much trouble getting as high as 144, but him moving down to 135 is a stretch when reality if he didn't eat like a horse he'd probably come in weighing 140 anyway.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
Star brings up a valid point with this whole weight.
Pac should be able to make 135 & 140 comfortably.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
It's just the double standards. Everyone loves to talk about how brave he is to move up in weight then when he barely makes weight coming in low having to fight out of his weight class everyone talks about how great it is. But when the aspect of moving down comes up he is treated as if he was the one weighing 150 or 147 for his fights. When he is fighting these bigger guys he is so small and great for doing so well. But when Marquez says move down, they act like Pac is a natural 147 pounder or something. His achievements are considered "great" because he is NOT a natural 147 pounder, so him making lightweight or at the very least 138-140 shouldn't be out of the question.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
I kind of find it funny how the fight MUST be at 147 or 145 and such they say for Manny.
When always leading up to his fights against bigger men they say they have to feed him a lot of food just to make him make the weight and he still winds up in the lower 140s at the weigh ins.
If he has to eat like a horse to make 144 then what's the problem of eating right and making 140? Roach says he is naturaly walk around at 140 anyway so what's the problem of making a catch weight like 138?
It's funny how people make it sound like manny would be giving up 15 pounds to move all the way down to 135. He wouldn't. He wasn't weighing 150, his opponents were, and he had to eat like crazy to make 144 even. So why is it he has so much trouble getting as high as 144, but him moving down to 135 is a stretch when reality if he didn't eat like a horse he'd probably come in weighing 140 anyway.
Well you know why they want a fight at 147? Because they want the advantage. In business, politics, or war, whichever side has the leverage will use it. Just like why did Floyd fought JMM at welterweight and not boil down to fight JMM at 140? Because he has the power to do so. Why did De La Hoya make Hopkins boil down to a 156 catchweight for his titles? Because he can. Ring size, glove size, purse split, and yes weight class is determined by the A-side between 2 fighters. Surely you understand this do you?;)
And no it's not double standards to use whatever leverage you have in business. And yes boxing is a business. IF the other party thinks it's too unfair then don't accept.
On the record I do think Pac should fight JMM at 140 if they are going to fight. 1 guy goes up 1 guy goes down.
Re: If pac lost to marquez at lightweight would the bubble burst?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
I kind of find it funny how the fight MUST be at 147 or 145 and such they say for Manny.
When always leading up to his fights against bigger men they say they have to feed him a lot of food just to make him make the weight and he still winds up in the lower 140s at the weigh ins.
If he has to eat like a horse to make 144 then what's the problem of eating right and making 140? Roach says he is naturaly walk around at 140 anyway so what's the problem of making a catch weight like 138?
It's funny how people make it sound like manny would be giving up 15 pounds to move all the way down to 135. He wouldn't. He wasn't weighing 150, his opponents were, and he had to eat like crazy to make 144 even. So why is it he has so much trouble getting as high as 144, but him moving down to 135 is a stretch when reality if he didn't eat like a horse he'd probably come in weighing 140 anyway.
Well you know why they want a fight at 147? Because they want the advantage. In business, politics, or war, whichever side has the leverage will use it. Just like why did Floyd fought JMM at welterweight and not boil down to fight JMM at 140? Because he has the power to do so. Why did De La Hoya make Hopkins boil down to a 156 catchweight for his titles? Because he can. Ring size, glove size, purse split, and yes weight class is determined by the A-side between 2 fighters. Surely you understand this do you?;)
And no it's not double standards to use whatever leverage you have in business. And yes boxing is a business. IF the other party thinks it's too unfair then don't accept.
On the record I do think Pac should fight JMM at 140 if they are going to fight. 1 guy goes up 1 guy goes down.
Yes but the thing is Pacquiao has the power to make Marquez come up to 147 but the point is, he can easily make 140 or lower himself and its a selling point that he fights that so low compared to others in the division. Floyd I can consider more or less a welterweight at this point, I don't see him making 140 anytime soon. Pacquiao on the other hand has to eat to make 144, so Pacquiao may have the power to call for a higher weight but he is the one in a big enough position to accommodate moving down to fight Marquez at an equal weight. So it would be worse to make Marquez move up because Pacquiao would have no issues making Marquez's weight. And he nor his promoters should try to perveive otherwise. It's one thing to make someone come to your weight because you can't move down anymore. It's another thing to make someone move up to a weight when you can easily move down to theirs.
And I didn't know Oscar made Hopkins weigh so low, I thought Hopkins did that intentionally or something to fool them into thinking he'd be at a disadvantage
