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this from a big fan of his!!! what the hell was he doing running in those late rounds when he knew peterson couldn't hurt him? i was saying, WTF is he doing? he almost had peterson out early in the fight and just because he got tagged a few times, he reverted to running. after he hurt peterson and put him down twice, he should have went to the body more but instead he let peterson off the hook by running. i seriously cannot see him beating any of the jr. welters champions. very disappointing!!!
Ortiz is more than happy to dish it out, but once it starts coming back he does like to retreat. Perhaps the Maidana fight is always in the back of his mind. I have never been that excited by Ortiz and have always thought him to be something of a hype job. You have to question how Ortiz will respond to adversity in the future. He likes to smile a lot, but is he actually prepared to grit it out when he needs to? I am not so sure.
what i despise about ortiz is that he's too damned nice to his opponents. when they're told to "touch them up" he always smiles like a dork. also, did you see him kissing peterson on the cheek? for me, that was despicable and weak! i especially hate when he had peterson hurt and he started backing up and shuffling for no reason. he had the power to blow peterson away but no, vicky ortiz blew it!
I thought the draw was a disgrace. Ortiz deserved the win
violent,
i also thought ortiz won but damn it, he could have finished peterson and left it out of the hands of those idiotic judges. physically, i think ortiz has it all but ever since the maidana fight, i can see he's been a little hesitant to try to finish his opponents when he has them in trouble. if he doesn't have it mentally 100%, he'll never win a title. but he's still young and he can still improve.
Vic definitely is built like a tank comparing fight night weights with both Khan and Maidana who were 149 lbs tonight while Vic was 156 lbs.
Vic has it all like you said speed, power, size and skill on his side just lacks the killer instinct I guess but that is something that can be developed so no worries. I want Nice kid Ortiz to destroy his bully counterpart in Brandon Rios.
I thought so too, but wtf is up with Ortiz man. He was smiling about the draw? This kid is too soft for his own good. Maybe he is in the wrong sports. I like the guy but last night was disappointing. I dont think his chinny but he retreats like he is. I think he gots a lot of skills but doesn't have the mental toughness to put it all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I really like Ortiz. To label the kid heartless when you consider all of the obstacles he has had to overcome just to get into the ring is an example why armchair warriors are generally held with contempt and considered as cretins by those who truly like and respect the sport.
Ortiz was brutally stopped by Maidana and it's obviously affected his confidence. He could definitely have imposed himself more but he the reason he didn't win was because of the worst judging fix since Juan Guzman somehow drew with Ali Funeka last year.
He won the fight. His gameplan worked. He was just robbed by a disgraceful judging decision.
I do question Ortiz's ability to go into the trenches however. He would not have made it out of the 10th round against Maidana like Khan did last night imo. Khan's heart is phenomenal, I think Ortiz seems to see boxing more as a sport than life and death and isn't willing to die in the ring or risk his long term health.
Is that wrong really? I don't know. But he is humble, exciting and a nice guy of the sport and I would never hate on him for it.
Both men seems to be okay with the decision. But I think Ortiz did more damage.
Wow. This was a draw ??? I think physically Ortiz is a dynamo but feeding on shot to shit Harris's and undersized Campbells for confident builders tells us alot. It'll come back to haunt him and he may be seeing ghosts of Maidana across the ring. I dont see him doing to much honestly.
The difference in that fight was one guy's a natural fighter and the other isn't. Ortiz's physical advantages were immense but he just didn't want it as much as Peterson.
he was a major let down lastnight, total let down. his stock has dropped 60% it'll take some performance to bring it back up......after the 3rd he lost interest and seemed to be thinking he wishes he was at home playing call of duty with pizza one side and soft drink the other..........i was hoping it was hand injury or something as i like the kid
and the sickening thing is this, why in the hell was he smiling after getting a draw? nah, i don't think victor has it in this tough business. while he's still marketable, he'd better save up his money or invest it wisely and prepare for another career because i don't think he'll become a major star anymore.
i wouldn't say he's heartless, i'd just say that he's overly cautious, to the point that he's not really taking any chances, he needs to loosen up a bit, just not be careless, can't continue on this way though, he has the ability and the natural tools to become a great fighter, he's a big guy for his weight class, good speed, very good power, he's strong and has good boxing ability, really needs to work on his jab and how to be more effective with it and also work on his movement and footwork, sometimes the guy looks completely off balance or in an awkward stance that really doesn't allow him to get his shots off
People don't realize that the Ortiz right now is actually the real Ortiz. It's the way he fought as an amateur and early in his career. He was never a seek and destroy fighter before. That shiit started when was getting hyped up.
Regardless of what Ortiz could of or should of done. It don't change the fact that he won the fight and should of gotten credit for it. The draw was a joke
Watching replay on HBO now,round 3. Ortiz really has the exaggerated wiiiide placement of the feet keeping his legs like an arc,so top heavy on some byrd legs. He'll be Jr middle next (well officially at least). He's going to get dumped on his azz again.
Is Jim Lampley a glory hole fluffer or what. "There's Ortiz improved chin again". Apparently along side the speed bag and tread mill there is a chin enhancer machine. Man!
what frustrates the hell out of me is this, he's such a sweetheart to his opponents. always kissing them after fights and smiling at them when they touch them up after the refs instructions. not only that but he just doesn't have a killers instinct. i believe in boxing, either you've got a killer's instinct or you don't. i don't think it can be learnt.
and about his chin! you can tell he still has doubts about his chin because once he was tagged a few good ones by peterson, looks like he didn't want to test the waters so deeply anymore. maybe he had flashbacks of the maidana fight.
true great champions like pacquiao, duran, chavez, hagler etc...would have gone for the absolute kill instead of dancing away like a little princess!
As much as it freaks me out I actually agree with ya on Ortizs mentality,but in honesty I dont get punched in the mug for a living so I'll temper the judging his heart and full desire stuff. He'll never venture into Chavez,Duran country though. And even Chavez has a 'moment' from what I saw. I think Ortiz is where he is going as a fighter for the most part. What we see is what we'll get.
That kind of shit happens in Vegas to fuck up everyone parley bets....
Pacquiao blamed a loss on his socks, Duran waved his head no mas cause of tummy ache, Chavez sat in his corner after quitting against DLH, and Hagler called it a career after a tantrum because the other guy got the nodQuote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
who cares if he smiled, kissed Peterson or was happy at the end of the fight, you don't have to be a savage to be a successful and decent fighter
morales,
i guess you're right but ortiz doesn't have to smile at his opponents so much. i don't know, maybe i don't think he's got the absolute desire to be a champion one day!
I wouldn't call him heartless, hell I wouldn't call anyone that does this for a living heartless. Ortiz's problem is mental ability. He's gun shy now when he gets tagged. The Maidana fight just took whatever mental toughness out of him that he once had. He has all the physical tools to be an elite fighter in the sport, but that's only 1/2 of it, the rest is mentality. But he's only 24 and still a pup in the game, lets see how he is a year or 2 years from now and then evaluate him again.
general,
to tell you the truth, i don't think victor ortiz was ever mentally tough. before the maidana fight, he pretty much had his way with all his opponents. but when maidana brought it, ortiz folded and wilted. and by not having it mentally, it also means that he's also heartless! you've got to be tough mentally to have a big heart.
IMO it has more to do with GBP rushing to get a marketable product than it does with Ortiz having heart or not, he would have gotten the win against Maidana if he wouldn't have rushed things, the 6th round of Ortiz's fight is all you need to watch to see how brutal a puncher Maidana actually is, Ortiz went in clean and left with his eye sealed shut from repeated right hands, and all that in about 40 seconds, and for your last statement, not necessarily cause Zab Judah is weak mentally and he has tons of heart same went for TysonQuote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
morales,
i disagree with your assessment on zab judah and mike tyson. zab, although he has all the talent in the world, losses his fizz, like an old pepsi does, in the later rounds. his last fight with that limited argentine was a clear example.
and with mike tyson, i can say the same thing. he looked absolutely indestructible before the douglas fight. in fact, that was the time when he was still promoted by don king and was having trouble with his wife. did you know that for the trip to japan for the douglas fight, he hired a psysch to accompany him to japan?
and look what happened when he was getting his ass handed to him by evander holyfield! he reverted to munching on evander's ear!
If that was the case, Ortiz wouldn't of bothered continuing after getting dropped in the 1st against Maidana. Despite both fighters going down in the first, it was Ortiz who was clearly hurt the most. But he continued on. Ortiz knows his limitations on what he can take or can not take. He's not as tough as Maidana or Bradley. But to say he's completely heartless is extreme and pretty much stupid to sayQuote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
violent,
i don't mean to say that victor ortiz is some pussy or something, i just think he doesn't show the heart needed to reach the pinnacle of boxing (world champion). but i may be wrong, only time will tell.
with all the things said here i wont be surprised if he gets one of the 140 pound belts. this kid grows on me.
pavlik,
he may have "grown" on you but not on me. he had peterson hurt last night and let him off the hook. and after the announcer called a draw, it seemed he was satisfied with it!
That's the thing. Ortiz does have some pussy in him. I just don't consider him heartless. To me heartless is a fool who avoids big fights or quits at the first sign of trouble. Ortiz said he wants the big names. And I can see him getting in the ring with Bradley, Con and Alexander. And he tries to come back after getting hurt or dropped. His problem is he's not as tough as some of competition. That cost him against Maidana. And I wouldn't doubt if it cost him again down the lineQuote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Adversity builds character. He got up, showed doubts in interview and more importantly got back into the ring again, fk for the fans but for himself firstly. Peterson was revealing his defensive holes, think against a true 147-154 he'll have no choice but to stand ground. I mean shit didn't Holyfield smile after a draw & loss...ok thats a stretch.
I don't think he's heartless by any means, I'm just not sure how much he really cares.
You could also take it as he smiles because he loves what he does, not that he's "too nice". You mentioned pacquiao earlier as a champion. Do you remember he was once known for his constant smiling in the ring?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
I'd picked Peterson to win the fight. But Ortiz had him and let the fight slip away. After the MM fight, Ortiz might not be the same. Or he can very well be the next Cotto. Cotto got rocked by Torres(I think) then moved up and had a very good career at 147. Without being rocked as much as he did at 140. Maybe the weight(extra weight), hinder Ortiz more then help him.
Ortiz can move up to 147 and fight Clottey. Good chance he can grow fighting Clottey without Clottey throwing punches back. Although I'll fav Clottey.
Exactly. A draw was nonsense. Ortiz won more rounds and had a 10-7 round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Ortiz def let off the gas pedal and coasted to victory which was disapointing but he won that fight.
Peterson showed a ton of heart but no way he did enough to earn a draw.
He was smiling because he thought he won, he gets paid the same either way. So I think he was thinking about going to check his bank account or something.;D