These 2 are considered the best of their era, but who would take the title? Who was considered to be the best of their era? Some people say Lewis and some say Holyfield?
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These 2 are considered the best of their era, but who would take the title? Who was considered to be the best of their era? Some people say Lewis and some say Holyfield?
It's hard to say. I think Holyfield was better technically than Lewis, and was probably easier on the eye. This probably stems from him being lighter and more mobile. With that said, i think Lewis' resume at Heavyweight is more impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
So i'm going to say Lewis. But it's close.
I also felt the same way too. Holyfield had a better chin, hand and foot speed, and determination. Lewis had power, size, and a better resume at HW, not that Holyfield's wasn't but Lewis also fought guys like Grant, Morrison, Ruddock, Tua, Vitali, etc. So for me it goes to Lewis, because of the resume. Still close though.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoIt's hard to say. I think Holyfield was better technically than Lewis, and was probably easier on the eye. This probably stems from him being lighter and more mobile. With that said, i think Lewis' resume at Heavyweight is more impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
So i'm going to say Lewis. But it's close.
Yeah it could be the case that Holyfield was probably a more complete fighter, but Lewis simply got it done.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogI also felt the same way too. Holyfield had a better chin, hand and foot speed, and determination. Lewis had power, size, and a better resume at HW, not that Holyfield's wasn't but Lewis also fought guys like Grant, Morrison, Ruddock, Tua, Vitali, etc. So for me it goes to Lewis, because of the resume. Still close though.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoIt's hard to say. I think Holyfield was better technically than Lewis, and was probably easier on the eye. This probably stems from him being lighter and more mobile. With that said, i think Lewis' resume at Heavyweight is more impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
So i'm going to say Lewis. But it's close.
I'd have them both above Tyson anyway.
I agree with you both, but i think Evander Holyfield would beat Lennox Lewis P4P. Lennox Lewis was in his prime when he fought Evander Holyfield, where as Evander Holyfield was on the downslide losing to John Ruiz after the Lennox Lewis fights.
The early 1990's version of Evander Holyfield would win IMO, although thats probably and unpopular opinion.
No, that's not an unpopular opinion, I feel that the 89-92 Holyfield takes the best version of Lewis and would give any HW in history a run for their money.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Call it a draw ;D Nah I say Holyfield. Believe of the two he fully maximized what he had on a consistent basis. Seemed to have taken Lewis some time to know self in the ring while Holyfield hit the ground running out of the Olympics, style and fire wise. Has entered that foggy faded era now in sticking around, took some bad style clashes on, pointless opponents in stubborn clamor for belt.
I totally agree with this post. I always felt that the Evander that won the title first time around would beat any version of Lewis. Not knocking Lewis in any way as I feel Evander is probably the 3rd or 4th greatest HW of all time behind Ali, Louis and MAYBE 70's Foreman. There are others who could easily be argued to be above Holyfield I know but this is my opinion and Evander is my all time favourite HW ;) .Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
As for Resumes I feel they are pretty equal, Evander didn't fight Grant, Ruddock, Tua and Vitali but Lewis didn't fight Moorer, Bowe, Foreman or Holmes. So to me they were pretty equal in that sense. Also Evander fought a much more dangerous version of Tyson IMO, and a Tyson that still carried a slight air of invincibility.
It is a close call and anyone arguing either fighter has a case, but my vote definitely goes for Evander.
holyfield was definately more exciting, a fighter you couldnt help but get behind and will to win
lewis at his best tho would beat hollyfield at his best
IMO Lewis was at his peak when they did fight and Evander was quite a way past his best.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I have to give it to Holyfield, Lewis was good but Holyfield was a machine fighting guys much bigger and stronger then himself in the HW division. He won fights with heart and determination over much bigger men then himself and he was so much more exiting to watch then Lewis could ever be.
If Holyfield only had the size of Bowe and Lewis with his determination and toughness their would be no question who was better in his era, average size HW's these days have a long road ahead of them fighting guys who out weigh them by 30 to 70 lbs and several inches taller. Then you have Valuev who is a shit fighter but will still give a great average sized HW problems just from the pure size advantage.
I'd agree with thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
I have said above that I think peak Holyfield beats peak Lewis, but it's tight. When was peak Holyfield? The 1st Bowe fight arguably? Lewis was better than Bowe, so maybe Lewis would've out jabbed and beaten Holyfield :-\
I'm sticking with Evander, but very hard to call
Whilst I say Tyson beats both at his peak Lewis was better than Holfield.
Holyfields peak is a mystery because after the Bowe defeat he was inconsistent, great against Tyson, Lewis II, Moorer II but poor against Lewis I, Moorer I and Bowe III.
I have picked Lewis but like most people have said its very close between the two. I wish there was a "too close to call" option.
You could say that Holyfield in the early 1990s was in his prime but he was also reckless and often resorted to brawling and standing toe to toe rather than keeping to a game plan.
Lewis for me was the better all round package but he had all the natural advantages Evander didn't. (apart from an iron chin)
Well Holyfeild resume at heavy is pretty good i mean he has wins over Bowe, Tyson, Foreman, and Holmes and he took to Lewis in rematch at 36. To me his heart condition is what made him inconsistent i mean Holyfeild has alot of medical issues i not sure how he is still allowed to fight to be honest.
I could be entirely wrong, but if we take Holyfield at his best, would he not be a Cruiserweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueno
Yes he would be.
I've always rated Lennox Lewis highly as a Champion because of his consistency(reign), dominance (unifications) and Ability (Era). As a champion I think Lewis was better than most but as a fighters fighter, or even a boxers boxer, P4P Holyfield was by far the better man. Its just a shame his career as a Heavyweight was so patchy.
I still belive Holyfield wouldn't of looked so bad if he wasn't fighting tricky guys like Bryd, Donald & Toney so late into his career... Maybe the Ruiz trilogy had him fooled ???
I've said this before but I believe Evander should have retired after the second Lewis fight and if he had I think that the boxing world would regard him as high as 3# all time HW. I know I would. All the shit defeats such as Ruiz, Toney, Donald and Byrd that came after Evander had lost it just shouldn't have happened. People say Ali doesn't get knocked down the ATG ladder for his poor ending but he knew after losing to Berbick it was over and didn't wait around for other shit fighters to beat him too.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grinch
Evander Holyfield fought the wrong fight vs Riddick Bowe, in there 1st meeting. Plus Lennox Lewis might not have been better than Riddick Bowe in that one fight. It was an amazing performance from Riddick Bowe.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
In the rematch Evander Holyfield fought a great fight, possibly one of his best performance's as a Heavyweight. Counter punching sticking/moving, a real good technical performance from Evander Holyfield.
That version of Evander Holyfield i believe beats Lennox Lewis.
Me too. Also I don't want to make excuses for Evander but did you know his brother was shot dead right before (i think it was a week) the first Bowe fight? I know I couldn't have gone through with the fight under those circumstances and I often wonder whether he would have been dragged into the war he did had he been totally focused which he surely can't have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBEvander Holyfield fought the wrong fight vs Riddick Bowe, in there 1st meeting. Plus Lennox Lewis might not have been better than Riddick Bowe in that one fight. It was an amazing performance from Riddick Bowe.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
In the rematch Evander Holyfield fought a great fight, possibly one of his best performance's as a Heavyweight. Counter punching sticking/moving, a real good technical performance from Evander Holyfield.
That version of Evander Holyfield i believe beats Lennox Lewis.
Anyway this discussion has got my appetite up for watching this trilogy again so I'm off lol.
Can't argue with any of thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBEvander Holyfield fought the wrong fight vs Riddick Bowe, in there 1st meeting. Plus Lennox Lewis might not have been better than Riddick Bowe in that one fight. It was an amazing performance from Riddick Bowe.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
It's easy to excuse fighters for having bad nights or fighting the wrong fight. Holyfield is 1 out of 5 with Lewis and Bowe. If you bring his cruiserweight days into it, then he may well be better overall but not at heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCan't argue with any of thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBEvander Holyfield fought the wrong fight vs Riddick Bowe, in there 1st meeting. Plus Lennox Lewis might not have been better than Riddick Bowe in that one fight. It was an amazing performance from Riddick Bowe.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
How many times do they need to beat him to convince they are his superior?
you might be rightQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuIMO Lewis was at his peak when they did fight and Evander was quite a way past his best.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
i dont think either fight was lewis at his best
to be honest i cant even remember the fights, i remember thinking lewis had won the first quite clearly and the second being much closer, thats about it
Well to be fair Fenster, Holyfeild by the third Bowie fight had some serious health issues and even worse when he came to the lewis fights he was getting up there in age.
I have always been a big fan of Evander and I think he may be the more talented of two but as far as legacy and best of the era you really can't argue with Lewis's reign and resume. On a side note I actually thought Evander won the Lewis rematch.
both of these guys were ATG's imo. holyfield had a great run and is probably considered top 10 all-time at heavyweight. until last year, after viewing some of lewis' earlier fights, i didn't know how great this guy was. this guy was absolutely incredible and i think vastly underrated. okay, so, if you had to put a gun to my head, i would have to pick lennox lewis over holyfield. both of these guys had it all but because of the size difference, lennox was the better heavyweight and certainly a top 8 all-time.
I had em 2-2-1 taking Lewis rematch...and of course following the strict record book and not letting my personal excuses etc get in the way of judges 'draw' call. ;D Bowe frankly was 'great' on a night and don't think he holds light to either of these guys overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterIt's easy to excuse fighters for having bad nights or fighting the wrong fight. Holyfield is 1 out of 5 with Lewis and Bowe. If you bring his cruiserweight days into it, then he may well be better overall but not at heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCan't argue with any of thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBEvander Holyfield fought the wrong fight vs Riddick Bowe, in there 1st meeting. Plus Lennox Lewis might not have been better than Riddick Bowe in that one fight. It was an amazing performance from Riddick Bowe.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
How many times do they need to beat him to convince they are his superior?
I actually scored the rematch a draw so IMO the 2 fights got the right results just they came with the wrong fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Prime for prime I think we'd see the same result.
You have to ask when was Evanders prime. If it was teh early 90s then logic dictates that if a cruiserweight like Cooper could hurt Evander then Lewis would have finished him. If a prime versiuon of Evander was the guy who beat Tyson then Lewis fought him and beat him twice. Evander was a great champion but Lennox had all the pyhiscal tools, too much power, great jab and had his number and would be a hard man to beat against any heavyweight champ in history.
Yeah I dunno... Holyfield is all heart so he was never (is never) gonna give up fighting but I guess he could of been more shrewd with his opponent selection at the age of 36... But then I guess 99% of these warrior types don't ever make for clever matchmakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI've said this before but I believe Evander should have retired after the second Lewis fight and if he had I think that the boxing world would regard him as high as 3# all time HW. I know I would. All the shit defeats such as Ruiz, Toney, Donald and Byrd that came after Evander had lost it just shouldn't have happened. People say Ali doesn't get knocked down the ATG ladder for his poor ending but he knew after losing to Berbick it was over and didn't wait around for other shit fighters to beat him too.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grinch
Cooper was a legitimate heavyweight puncher but don't think he hit harder then Foreman...who bounced everything he could off Holyfield in prior fight and didnt do what Cooper did. Holyfields head was all wrong in front of hometown crowd and going from originally being set to meet Mike Tyson who pulled out....then Francesco Damiani....then to literal last minute sub for a sub, Cooper.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Do think Cooper is THE man to have hurt him the worst in career though. Out of everyone,just weird how it translates.
Evander was a great technical boxer and counter puncher unfortunately for him he wanted to be a KO artist. He all to often abandoned his boxing and was drawn into slugfests. I think his desire to have KO power at HW caused him to add too much muscle and lead to his heart and stamina issues.
Bert Cooper was on a nice little run then aswell, also giving Michael Moorer hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliCooper was a legitimate heavyweight puncher but don't think he hit harder then Foreman...who bounced everything he could off Holyfield in prior fight and didnt do what Cooper did. Holyfields head was all wrong in front of hometown crowd and going from originally being set to meet Mike Tyson who pulled out....then Francesco Damiani....then to literal last minute sub for a sub, Cooper.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Do think Cooper is THE man to have hurt him the worst in career though. Out of everyone,just weird how it translates.
I think the reason Holyfield took Foremans punch but struggled with Coopers is cuz he saw Foremans coming. They were sent second class so Evander was able to prepare. Lewis' culd land quicker and changed the angles of his shots ( Rahman 2 ) Bowe knocked Holyfield out aswel before Evander had his best wins. Problem with Evander is that he always wanted to trade with biggr men when he would have been better served using his speed to get in and out.
both holyfield and lewis were great hence there both in everyones all time great heavyweights..........i have to say i like holyfield a bit more...i have alot of both there fights i'm such a fan of them.....for me holyfield did some unbelivable things like beating bowe in the re-match beating tyson twice when he was deemed wash-up...the fact he was only 14.5 stone or 204 lbs when he first become heavyweight champ and hanged with big hitters like big foreman, bowe, holmes makes him a warrior........lewis did some super stuff to.....i edge holyfield for the excitment factor
I think it was more of a fluky thing, a true brick that any big man is capable of on any given night. He landed after 3rd, and Evander took em. After all, pretty sure he didn't see that brutal pin point uppercut in the 10th round coming from the best version of Bowe we've seen. Same round ended fairly well for him I'd say.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Tyson win was great. Considering some pundits and fans considered 'that' version of Holyfield a walking dead man going in. He did however have some best wins at hvy before Bowe ko. I'd say discipline and style he showed in Foreman and Bowe 2 would suit him well vs Lewis in any form. Better then 'later' version who was gifted a draw and did after all end up on otherside of a debatable 2nd fight.
I think if this was a question of who had the better career overall then with the great fights and world titles at cruiser Evander makes it much closer, although in saying that David Haye seems to recieve little to no credit from many for entering the HW ranks as undisputed cruiser champ. I think that Evanders win over a much better version of Tyson than the one Lennox fought was a huge win because many HWs at that time would have lost to Tyson before the bell rang mentally Evander was on that night. In an earlier post it was mentioned that Evander is 1 from 5 with Bowe and Lewis and this clinches it for Lennox for me especially with Bowes refusal to face him as this emphasises Lewis consistency granted he switched off twice in his career but was emphatic in the rematches Rahman especially. He was also more exciting than people give him credit for explosive KOs against Golota, Grant, Botha, Ruddock and great fights with Briggs, Bruno, Vitali