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time and again i read how close and controvesial that decision was
close? calzaghe landed 27 times as many punches as hopkins
ok maybe you pick the best 3 punches of the fight and they would all be hopkins but those were the only 3 punches he landed
calzaghe had a bad start and hopkins may have even won the first 4, after that it was clear calzaghi all the way
the only thing controversial about it was that it was a spilt decision and not unanimous
The important thing is none of us are going to rewatch it to be able to argue with you.
Ok now thats cleared up we can move onto other things ;D
Good points!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
The fact that Hopkins was alowed to slow the fight down with all his play acting was disgusting.
I dont understand how 1 judge even gave it to Hopkins.
This one has been done plenty of times. I have always thought Calzaghe did more than enough to get the win. A bad start, but he turned it around. Hopkins seemed to be worn out by the half way mark.
It's not a fight I enjoy watching, quite boring in fact. A lot of spoiling from Hopkins. I am expecting a bit more of that this weekend, but hopefully Pacal has the pop to put a dent in a much older Hopkins.
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
There's no way im rewatching this fight again, twice was enough for me. I had B-Hop winning. He landed the cleaner more effective punches, and had a very good start with the two point round.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I didn't see Joe Calzaghe landing anything clean, most of his punches were blocked, slaps, or wern't landing that effectively. From my memory i can't remember Joe Calzaghe landing an eye catching blow all night.
Very difficult fight to watch but at first I had Calzaghe on first viewing for forcing the fight but there is a very intersting angle of the fight on youtube where Hopkins lands all the big shots in the fight. I will try finding it now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyz2c...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaXOrtccFME&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaWy3GK1sdI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJiZvBKDWA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rbIF95N_ts&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_SJtawBeoE&feature=related
Yea thats why he won IMO, i mean its not all about volume. It's about how effective the shots are aswell. For example if Joe Calzaghe outlanded B-Hop by like 10 punches in one round.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
But B-Hop's punches were all clean effective straight right hand leads. Where as Joe Calzaghe's punches were all grazing arm punching slaps. Then im giving the round to B-Hop no question.
And in alot of the early rounds i felt, mostly all of B-Hop's shots were clean effective right hand leads. And he even almost floored Joe Calzaghe twice in the fight aswell, at the end of one of the early rounds.
Where as most of Joe Calzaghe's punches wern't effective punches, and he missed alot of punches.
I have no problem with Joe Calzaghe getting the nod, due to him forcing the fight and because B-Hop faded. But i still feel B-Hop banked enough early rounds to just edge it IMO.
I had Hopkins winning it either 114-113 or 115-112, I think he had the cleaner & effective punching, and showed the better ring generalship, but I've got no issue with Calzaghe taking a close decision. I thought the judge who had him winning 9 rounds was a bit off his rocker though
i agree hopkins landed more single effective punches
but they were so few and far between
calzaghi was forcing the fight and as a result left himself open for these single punches
he outpunched him by so many
i would keep and open mind and watch the you tube vid, and maybe i will some day
The fight was dire, last big fight on the BBC, put them off boxing forever.
Yup, I think it was a really easy fight to score. Hopkins won the first 4 rounds (10-8 in first) and JC won rounds 5-12.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
SIMPLES :cool:
Yeah Calzaghe landed 3 times as many slaps at Hopkins did punches so he won the fight. He is clearly the greatest Super Middle weight of all time and would have beaten Jones Jr in his prime just as easily in 2000 as he did in 2008. No question!! He is the best slap-paw boxer period. The all time great Tocker Pudwill didn't even make it out of the 2nd round!!!
It's a no-brainer
Very dry ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jdonaher1
Prime Hopkins or prime RJJ beat JC imo, but as for this fight, Hopkins wasn't even thrpwing 'slaps' after 5 rounds ;)
Watched it live and didn't score and seemed a lot closer than when I rewatched it later to score. Found it pretty easy to score and had joe winning it, don't think that hop landed that many BIG shots on calzaghe, plus there were definitely a few comming from joe's way that hopkins wasn't to fond of. Everyone though sees different things when they watch a fight so...
I made no attempt to score it when I watched it but I remember thinking that Hopkins had edged it. Haven't watched it since and I don't have any intention to 'cos it was turgid, so I'm not going to disagree with those that saw it otherwise.
Exactly how I feel. Flailing around slapping the air doesn't win fights, clean and effective punching does. Hopkins won by a point IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBThere's no way im rewatching this fight again, twice was enough for me. I had B-Hop winning. He landed the cleaner more effective punches, and had a very good start with the two point round.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I didn't see Joe Calzaghe landing anything clean, most of his punches were blocked, slaps, or wern't landing that effectively. From my memory i can't remember Joe Calzaghe landing an eye catching blow all night.
Agreed. BHop hasn't thrown more than 27 punches in a round since 2006 ha ha ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HVery dry ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jdonaher1
Prime Hopkins or prime RJJ beat JC imo, but as for this fight, Hopkins wasn't even thrpwing 'slaps' after 5 rounds ;)
Didn't see much 'Clean and effective' punching from Nard after 4 rounds :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHExactly how I feel. Flailing around slapping the air doesn't win fights, clean and effective punching does. Hopkins won by a point IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBThere's no way im rewatching this fight again, twice was enough for me. I had B-Hop winning. He landed the cleaner more effective punches, and had a very good start with the two point round.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I didn't see Joe Calzaghe landing anything clean, most of his punches were blocked, slaps, or wern't landing that effectively. From my memory i can't remember Joe Calzaghe landing an eye catching blow all night.
Why not watch the fight and score it within the rules? This fight should of been a UD for Hopkins. Understand this rule. Follow it. And than watch the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
"The boxer can only strike with a closed fist using the front knuckle portion of the glove. Slapping with an open hand or striking with the wrist or lace area is illegal. The thumb must be held tight to the fist to avoid eye-gouging."
90% of Calzaghe's "punches" shouldn't even of counted. So how the fuck can anybody have him winning is just moronic.
i just rewatched it, he won very clearlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWhy not watch the fight and score it within the rules? This fight should of been a UD for Hopkins. Understand this rule. Follow it. And than watch the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
"The boxer can only strike with a closed fist using the front knuckle portion of the glove. Slapping with an open hand or striking with the wrist or lace area is illegal. The thumb must be held tight to the fist to avoid eye-gouging."
90% of Calzaghe's "punches" shouldn't even of counted. So how the fuck can anybody have him winning is just moronic.
i watched the hopkins biast version, even on that joe won
hopkins won the first four, or has a case for it, the rest of the rounds he only threw about 4 punches
slaps kisses tickles whatever, even if 90% of calzaghis punches didnt count he still landed a lot more than hopkins
100% agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44i just rewatched it, he won very clearlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWhy not watch the fight and score it within the rules? This fight should of been a UD for Hopkins. Understand this rule. Follow it. And than watch the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
"The boxer can only strike with a closed fist using the front knuckle portion of the glove. Slapping with an open hand or striking with the wrist or lace area is illegal. The thumb must be held tight to the fist to avoid eye-gouging."
90% of Calzaghe's "punches" shouldn't even of counted. So how the fuck can anybody have him winning is just moronic.
i watched the hopkins biast version, even on that joe won
hopkins won the first four, or has a case for it, the rest of the rounds he only threw about 4 punches
slaps kisses tickles whatever, even if 90% of calzaghis punches didnt count he still landed a lot more than hopkins
Hopkins and to some extent Jones Jnr have the ability to make very little, count for an awfull lot. Doesnt matter if you hit them as much as they hit you or more in some cases, it always seems like they are landing the better punches and winning the fight.
I had Joe winning, wouldnt dream of watching the fight again, even the highlights are shite.
i've seen it like 5 times ( sucker for punishment) i still feel hopkins won it.....this belief cowardzaghe landed 227 punches is a joke of somesorts. and thats what was based on his win that he landed that amout......at the gym we showed the younger boxers this fight ( if i'm to suffer there goner suffer ) as a means of how not to punch lol. at best joe landed 150-170 max and that after watching it over and over....watch it again a count for yourselfs lol.
b-hop was robbed that fight he was robbed at the weekend and he was robbed in the first taylor fight
and its rightly so, volume doesnt always win a fightQuote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
and as i said earlier hopkins probably landed the best 3 or 4 punches, easily the most eye catching punches of the fight but thats about all he did land
Compubox was as stupid that night as you are. Calzaghe was barely landing anything. I think it was a close fight, but besides Hopkins clearly not being what he once was, it was evident he was a better fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
In most rounds Hopkins is the only one landing real punches. Calzaghe slaps and makes it look like sometimes he's landing punches, but lots of times his punches had no steam on them and Hopkins was rolling with the punch, IMO that shouldn't count for almost anything when it comes to clean effective punching. I had Hopkins winning by a round so with the kd that's 2 points, and that's because in more rounds than not he was landing the better shots, and Calzaghe wasn't landing 20+ punches a round like Compubox would have you believe. If one guy lands 4-5 more punches, but no hard punches, and the other guy lands every telling blow in the round then he wins it, hands down. THe problem is they fought in Las Vegas where mindless aggression and output is favored(even though Calzaghe doesn't apply mindless aggression). We saw Oscar get a split decision loss againt Mayweather where he was clearly outboxed in 8-9 rounds of the fight, but Oscar like Calzaghe got points for throwing meaningless flurries.
Hopkins "clean effective punching" is exaggerated by his lack of success in the fight.
Look at these very revealing statistics from Hopkins last eight fights. Apart from the fact that Calzaghe hit Hopkins MORE times than any other fighter in history (I know, all those punches don't count :rolleyes:), the stats highlight that Hopkins had more trouble effectively hitting Calzaghe than any other fighter he faced.
Hopkins - 130/317, (35%) Taylor - 124 of 391, (32%)
Hopkins - 133/417, (32%) Tarver - 78/437, (18%)
Hopkins - 152/640, (24%) Wright - 167/618 (27%)
Hopkins - 127/468, (27%) Calzaghe - 232/707 (33%)
Hopkins - 172/530, (32% ) Pavlik - 108/463 (23%)
Hopkins - 205/497 (41%) Ornelas - 113/508 (22%)
Hopkins - 185/526 (35%) Jones - 82/274 (30%)
Hopkins - 171/445 (38%) Pascal - 105/353 (29%)
Cazlaghe simply stopped Hopkins game. He should surely get credit for that? And it obviously highlights why the MAJORITY saw Calzaghe win the fight ;)
I saw their HBO pre-fight special.
Calzaghe throws 9 punches per second.
;D
I'm like "no way, those aren't real punches. They're more like drum roll on a real tight snare drumhead".
Such a horrible fight to watch but I had Calzaghe winning. Hopkins just couldn't deal with Joe after the 4th/5th round that night. That's not too say that a younger Hopkins wouldn't have been able to deal with him but who knows what was to happen later in the fight if it wasn't for Hopkins continuously cheating. He obviously felt the need to buy some time by faking low blows so if the ref didn't call them (Cortez again.. :-\) then would Hopkins have been able to last the pace?
Calzaghe wasn't the most technically gifted fighter in the world but he had a skill of knowing what to do to win a fight.
no way joe landed 232 in that fight noway........ like i've siad before its more 150...170 if i count someother pity patters.......look there are plenty of guys here who are or where boxer......me being one of them, as a ex fighter i'm telling you 232 is not the total....compubox is someone in the crowd with a counter in there hand clicking it everytime they think a punch is thrown.....that night must have been a bad night for who ever counted joes landed punches.....theres a big diff to punching and touching....that night joe touched hopkins plenty lol but punched him 155ishQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
So ex-fighters can count better than normal humans? Tell me this then, as an expert ex-fighter, would you have landed 232, sorry i mean 170 punches on Hopkins, which is still MORE than any other fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by NUCLEAR BULLno way joe landed 232 in that fight noway........ like i've siad before its more 150...170 if i count someother pity patters.......look there are plenty of guys here who are or where boxer......me being one of them, as a ex fighter i'm telling you 232 is not the total....compubox is someone in the crowd with a counter in there hand clicking it everytime they think a punch is thrown.....that night must have been a bad night for who ever counted joes landed punches.....theres a big diff to punching and touching....that night joe touched hopkins plenty lol but punched him 155ishQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Your superior ex-fighter counting ability still makes Calzaghe more successful than anyone else. And doesn't change the fact that Hopkins found Calzaghe harder to hit than anyone else. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSo ex-fighters can count better than normal humans? Tell me this then, as an expert ex-fighter, would you have landed 232, sorry i mean 170 punches on Hopkins, which is still MORE than any other fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by NUCLEAR BULLno way joe landed 232 in that fight noway........ like i've siad before its more 150...170 if i count someother pity patters.......look there are plenty of guys here who are or where boxer......me being one of them, as a ex fighter i'm telling you 232 is not the total....compubox is someone in the crowd with a counter in there hand clicking it everytime they think a punch is thrown.....that night must have been a bad night for who ever counted joes landed punches.....theres a big diff to punching and touching....that night joe touched hopkins plenty lol but punched him 155ishQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Your superior ex-fighter counting ability still makes Calzaghe more successful than anyone else. And doesn't change the fact that Hopkins found Calzaghe harder to hit than anyone else. Fact.
I don't think you're understanding the gravity of what he is saying mate. He's ex fighter. You're just a fat civilian who looks a bit like Shuan Murphy.
When you've laced up a pair of gloves and hit the heavybag at your community youth centre then your opinion might stand for something. Right now you are as much an authority of boxing as Miles is on Middle East issues.
i was in no way pulling rank as a ex boxer or suggesting i no better then anyone else...the truth is there are people who have had over 100 bouts as ama and pro who know very little and those who've never even put a pair of gloves on that are experts......my point was there is a big difference in hitting someone and touching.......i can say to you that you have to add anothe 40 punches connected on calzaghe..everytime b-hop held, grabbed him in made contact did he not?????? so thats a hit....no.....i'm saying i would not have credited joe with 70-75 of those punches because they werent punches, if you drop that many shots then hopkins clearly wins as its only the 232 that argues in joes favour in many people eyes.....i can touch or poke with my little finger at you 100 times and you wont class it a punch....if someone hits you once you know about it........watch the fight again and then say that 232 is the total??????.........the person who did the counting that night must have been trigger happy on the button to class that many punches thats all a ment........once again sorry if it was taken wrong the ex boxers comment it was ment to emply no such thingQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterSo ex-fighters can count better than normal humans? Tell me this then, as an expert ex-fighter, would you have landed 232, sorry i mean 170 punches on Hopkins, which is still MORE than any other fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by NUCLEAR BULLno way joe landed 232 in that fight noway........ like i've siad before its more 150...170 if i count someother pity patters.......look there are plenty of guys here who are or where boxer......me being one of them, as a ex fighter i'm telling you 232 is not the total....compubox is someone in the crowd with a counter in there hand clicking it everytime they think a punch is thrown.....that night must have been a bad night for who ever counted joes landed punches.....theres a big diff to punching and touching....that night joe touched hopkins plenty lol but punched him 155ishQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Your superior ex-fighter counting ability still makes Calzaghe more successful than anyone else. And doesn't change the fact that Hopkins found Calzaghe harder to hit than anyone else. Fact.
I'm sure the coke he sniffed had something to do with thatQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
I had it 114-113 Hopkins. It was a good fight, but I thought Hopkins won the fight clearly. Calzaghe won some rounds on volume but really did not land much meaningful.
Then I took points from Calzaghe for being English and for that RIDICULOUS 9 punches a second thing! Unreal. I need to find the video Sal made to that.
LOL, at about 10 seconds in I chuckled. Devastating shots! Almost as brutal as the barrage that stopped Manfredo in his tracks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethCompubox was as stupid that night as you are. Calzaghe was barely landing anything. I think it was a close fight, but besides Hopkins clearly not being what he once was, it was evident he was a better fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
In most rounds Hopkins is the only one landing real punches. Calzaghe slaps and makes it look like sometimes he's landing punches, but lots of times his punches had no steam on them and Hopkins was rolling with the punch, IMO that shouldn't count for almost anything when it comes to clean effective punching. I had Hopkins winning by a round so with the kd that's 2 points, and that's because in more rounds than not he was landing the better shots, and Calzaghe wasn't landing 20+ punches a round like Compubox would have you believe. If one guy lands 4-5 more punches, but no hard punches, and the other guy lands every telling blow in the round then he wins it, hands down. THe problem is they fought in Las Vegas where mindless aggression and output is favored(even though Calzaghe doesn't apply mindless aggression). We saw Oscar get a split decision loss againt Mayweather where he was clearly outboxed in 8-9 rounds of the fight, but Oscar like Calzaghe got points for throwing meaningless flurries.
youre stupider than me dude :)
it was one of the clearest victories over 12 rounds ive ever seen