Simple question.
Is it all justified?
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Simple question.
Is it all justified?
Didn't have time to wrap em
Not too sure what those Kleenex are for; but my intentions are not to create a Pacquiao bash thread, not at all.
I'm going to kick back and watch this bait thread erupt between Milmascaras, Hornfinger, Miles, and Tysonbruno to battle it out against Bilbo, PSL, and a few other Pacquiao fans.
As Buffer, would say, "Let's get readyyyyyyyyyyyy to Rummmmmmmmmmmmble!"
http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/image...l%20Buffer.JPG
To keep it short and simple after taking everything into account, I would say no. Maybe his team sometimes deserves a little. But Pacman, no I don't think so. The guy is nothing short of a phenomanon. How many fighters do we see that can do the things he can do. I think this fellow should be appreciated while he's around. Because it could be along time before we see a fighter as dynamic and simply breathtaking as this guyQuote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
Any fighter that uses performing enhancing drugs deserves the hate. It's that simple. And before anyone responds with the lame "he's never tested dirty" excuse need not bother. He hasn't tested dirty cuz he refused the sophisticated testing.
This thread has a threat of becoming quite political so we can count Miles out... Unless Bilbo has managed to corrupt him in the 24 hours since I was last hear... But I think he'll still be on the wagon for a week or two yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
As the for the thread title, it's entirely subjective whether you think he deserves the hate or not....
Everything he's done since 135 is just AMAZING if you take into account the boxing norm... He's fought the fighters who were THE most recognized over the past 4 years (aside from Floyd)... And beat them all well....
The funny thing is, the people who he beat are responsible for the downfall of the others he beat... He didn't get that much credit for beating Cotto because Margarito beat him.... He didn't get the credit for Margarito because Mosley beat him.. He won't the credit for Mosley because Mayweather beat him...
The fact is he did great things against people who would still beat the rest of their division... But at the same time, argument can be made that there are more dangerous, younger, hungrier fights he could have fought.. But no one knows whether he would have destroyed them all the same, or even more....
You just really have the facts there, and if that doesn't win certain people over, then they are entitled to say they are not very impressed with what he's done...
If he fought everyone except Cotto, people would be saying he should fight Cotto otherwise he's avoiding them. or Ricky, or Margarito... The fact is he went through them all..
If someone wants to play those guys down as "done", then I really don't personally think that's fair considering they are still top of their divisions...
But the only way he'll get credit is beating Mayweather or fighting Martinez or something at 154.... Same as Mayweather really, he didn't step up to a new challenge/weight so he still has his bashers now.....
It's all subjective, but we'd be having the same discussion if he'd stopped at 135 and just cleared that out.. The fact he's fought a huge guy at 150 pounds instead of staying at 135 is enough to win me over and most people who are really fans of boxing in general....
But others, they want you to be incredibly outstanding every time out there, or you don't deserve shit for credit...
No !
In some people eye's though he will never get credit till he either fights Floyd, or submits to Floyds requests and completes the drug testing he wants him to do.
Regardless who he has fought in the last 4yrs it will mean jack because of the drug claims some will label him with.
He's not hated. He's currently the most popular fighter in the sport and well on his way to becoming one of the biggest sporting icons since Ali.
The only critics he has are a few cretinous keyboard warriors on the internet who barely count as human beings.
Well said Bilbo. As boxing fans surely we should appreciate the talents of Manny. I'm not a fan boy or a hater but a fan of boxing and Manny's a credit both in and out the ring.
I've never understood why people suddenly believe what the Mayweather clan have to say. They made up a story about Manny using PED's and then suddenly like sheep some people start believing it. What happened to being innocent until proven guilty? Where's the evidence that Manny's been using PED's? If someone can provide me with evidence then I'll be at the front of the queue in calling for Manny to be banned from the sport. It's going to take more than a few idiots "claiming" Manny must be on PED's before I actually believe it....how about starting with some evidence first eh....
I could accuse anyone on these boards of being a rapist or a murderer and your guilty until you can prove to me that you have never done one of the other. It sounds ridiculous but that's basically what the Mayweather's have done!!
exactly, being that popular tho you cant please all the people all the timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
with all the love comes some hate
besides psl loves him enough to wipe out all the hate :)
p.s. this is the last pacquiao thread i comment on
Egg nog and Jim beam
maybe I have had my head in the sand but I didn't know Pac was hated (obviously there will be a few haters there always is - even people like Santa Claus, there will be one or two who even think he is a cunt)
so I am mystified by this thread :-\
No.
The man has got a lot of people talking about boxing,always in exciting fights,wants to fight the best.
Why would anybody hate him???
Pacquaio is a great fighter, I have no qualms in saying that. He is exciting to watch and brings a lot of excitement to his fights. However, having said that, I do have some issues, but like someone mentioned before that is largely to do with his team. There was no good reason to call Cotto down to a CW, there was no justification for giving Margarito a big fight and there is widespread disdain for choosing to fight Mosley at this point in Mosley's career. We can all point the finger at Roach and Arum, but at the end of the day it is Manny choosing to get in the ring with these people.
We cannot just give unreserved praise to a fighter and it is certainly not hateful to formulate constructive criticism when it is called for.
For every Pac hater is a loser! An unsportsmanlike loser!
It's not widespread disdain. It's a few criticisms from within the hardcore boxing fan community. The reason Manny has selected Mosley is because it is a fight that the widespread boxing fanbase want to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
He doesn't get anywhere near the amount of hate he should.
Every forum that I have read since the fight was made is FULL of people who are repulsed by the prospect of this fight. There are a minority of voices saying that they think the fight is acceptable, but that is it. This is the only gauge of popular opinion that we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's not widespread disdain. It's a few criticisms from within the hardcore boxing fan community. The reason Manny has selected Mosley is because it is a fight that the widespread boxing fanbase want to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
There is no evidence to suggest that Pacquiao-Mosley is being demanded by the public at this stage. Two years ago there was, but after Mosley has been hammered by Mayweather and laboured his way through 12 rounds against Mora for the draw? Nah, the fight will sell on Pacs current name and the fact that Mosley many years ago was an excellent fighter.
There are better fights and bigger challenges than this and everbody knows it. Were fight fans polled on who they wanted to see Manny fight next? Was this poll secretly given to the general public? Get real, it has been made simply because Mosley went rogue and Arum couldn't turn down the prospect of an easily negotiated fight against an old legend. Easy money in the pocket with a minimal level of risk involvement.
It has next to nothing to do with what the typical boxing fan wants nor expects.
hate, no
but he does deserve criticism for choosing to fight Mosley of all people, especially when there were more challenging opponents than Mosley
That's forums mate. That's not widespread. Only about 1% of sporting fans are actually sad enough to be posting members of forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesEvery forum that I have read since the fight was made is FULL of people who are repulsed by the prospect of this fight. There are a minority of voices saying that they think the fight is acceptable, but that is it. This is the only gauge of popular opinion that we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's not widespread disdain. It's a few criticisms from within the hardcore boxing fan community. The reason Manny has selected Mosley is because it is a fight that the widespread boxing fanbase want to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
There is no evidence to suggest that Pacquiao-Mosley is being demanded by the public at this stage. Two years ago there was, but after Mosley has been hammered by Mayweather and laboured his way through 12 rounds against Mora for the draw? Nah, the fight will sell on Pacs current name and the fact that Mosley many years ago was an excellent fighter.
There are better fights and bigger challenges than this and everbody knows it. Were fight fans polled on who they wanted to see Manny fight next? Was this poll secretly given to the general public? Get real, it has been made simply because Mosley went rogue and Arum couldn't turn down the prospect of an easily negotiated fight against an old legend. Easy money in the pocket with a minimal level of risk involvement.
It has next to nothing to do with what the typical boxing fan wants nor expects.
The fight will likely do over 1 million PPV buys making it one of the most popular sporting events of 2010.
I'm sure Manny's team will take the opinions of 1 million paying fans over the whines of a few thousand nonpaying armchair critics any day.
Right, so we disregard the opinions of all the fans on forums even though these are the only voices we know of. You are telling me that the widespread boxing fanbase wants to see this fight. What evidence do you have to suggest that the average armchair fan wants to see Manny Pac fight a 40 year old Mosley who hasn't won in 3 years above all other possible opponents? Has Mosley been dazzling them with his latest performances? Are we to assume that they have been impressed by what they have seen? Sure, with some snazzy marketing people will be led into buying the fight, but as things stand there is no demand for it. You could market a fight with a number of other fighters and still make great money from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThat's forums mate. That's not widespread. Only about 1% of sporting fans are actually sad enough to be posting members of forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesEvery forum that I have read since the fight was made is FULL of people who are repulsed by the prospect of this fight. There are a minority of voices saying that they think the fight is acceptable, but that is it. This is the only gauge of popular opinion that we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's not widespread disdain. It's a few criticisms from within the hardcore boxing fan community. The reason Manny has selected Mosley is because it is a fight that the widespread boxing fanbase want to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
There is no evidence to suggest that Pacquiao-Mosley is being demanded by the public at this stage. Two years ago there was, but after Mosley has been hammered by Mayweather and laboured his way through 12 rounds against Mora for the draw? Nah, the fight will sell on Pacs current name and the fact that Mosley many years ago was an excellent fighter.
There are better fights and bigger challenges than this and everbody knows it. Were fight fans polled on who they wanted to see Manny fight next? Was this poll secretly given to the general public? Get real, it has been made simply because Mosley went rogue and Arum couldn't turn down the prospect of an easily negotiated fight against an old legend. Easy money in the pocket with a minimal level of risk involvement.
It has next to nothing to do with what the typical boxing fan wants nor expects.
The fight will likely do over 1 million PPV buys making it one of the most popular sporting events of 2010.
I'm sure Manny's team will take the opinions of 1 million paying fans over the whines of a few thousand nonpaying armchair critics any day.
It is a fight being built on Manny's name and that of a guy who was last decent a few years back and was excellent many years before. It is an opportunistic scam and the kind of behaviour that turned people against Floyd Mayweather. Pac is doing precisely the same.
Goodness no. To answer VD's song and dance about the steroids... why don't we bash the boxing organizations for not growing a pair and MAKE Pacquiao submit to the kind of testing everybody wants him to submit to? And no... Pac HASN'T tested dirty, regardless of the circumstances.
But let's see... why should we hate Pac... hmmm....
'Cause some of his fans are obnoxious? Well... that's hardly Pac's fault. If anybody deserves the hate, it would be the individual obnoxious fans.
'Cause he's fought a lot of fights at catchweights? Again... don't blame Pac for that. If the opposing promoters or trainers haven't been able to get fights with Pac at the official weights, don't blame Pac. Those are negotiation issues.
'Cause people consider him the world's p4p instead of Floyd? Well... good for them! IMO, Floyd deserves 10 times the hate Pac does, just for being a Grade-A asshole, and playing boxing fans for the fools some of them are. Dangles them on a string, while acting like an idiot to the rest of the world. Dodging fighters, taking sabbaticals, getting in all the trouble he can possibly get himself into... should I go on? And what... just because he's an American he should be given a free pass over someone who's the exact opposite? (Has class). I don't think so.
Pacquiao is a humble, great champion, and a wonderful ambassador for boxing. He's a people's champion, and that brings in more fans to our great sport. What is there to hate?
Truth be told, I liked Pac BEFORE he kicked the shit out of Oscar "Prima Donna" De La Hoya, who was looking for an easy, undersized scalp to ride off into the sunset with. That was just icing on the cake for me. THEN... when Hatton was making noises about him and Pac fighting for the p4p title (what a joke)... Pac made me more of a fan AGAIN when he put Hatton under full anestezia in two short, lopsided rounds. Finally... when he destroyed the cheating Margarito's face... that made me a fan for life. I wanted Margarito counted out... but the beating he took was probably more satisfying for me.
And yes... Pac did beat my boy Cotto. But I'm cool with that. Cotto brought some of that on himself by refusing to get a decent corner after his rift with his uncle. NOW he's finally seen the light, and got himself a professional guy in Manny Stewart. And Cotto will be back. He's not done yet.
And finally, I've never actually hated any fighter. Utter dislike... yes. Hate... that's a bit too strong for someone who hasn't personally wronged me in any way.
He don't deserve the hate but he will get an ice pack.
He challenge the wrong veteran!!!
Really? I'm sure Pac's so thrilled that YOU don't hate him, most especially since your "offensive" sig running for over a thousand years now, "mislead" him into thinking otherwise. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
yea cause i'm sure Pacquiao logs on here all the time to check up on us :rolleyes:, you're the type of "fan" that calls anyone who doesn't suck Pacquiao's dick a "hater" that's why your name always reminds me of Canker Sores, and it's a lot more fitting for you ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrusReally? I'm sure Pac's so thrilled that YOU don't hate him, most especially since your "offensive" sig running for over a thousand years now, "mislead" him into thinking otherwise. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
There are whiny fans who have criticised every single Pacquiao fight since he left the superfeatherweight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesRight, so we disregard the opinions of all the fans on forums even though these are the only voices we know of. You are telling me that the widespread boxing fanbase wants to see this fight. What evidence do you have to suggest that the average armchair fan wants to see Manny Pac fight a 40 year old Mosley who hasn't won in 3 years above all other possible opponents? Has Mosley been dazzling them with his latest performances? Are we to assume that they have been impressed by what they have seen? Sure, with some snazzy marketing people will be led into buying the fight, but as things stand there is no demand for it. You could market a fight with a number of other fighters and still make great money from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThat's forums mate. That's not widespread. Only about 1% of sporting fans are actually sad enough to be posting members of forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesEvery forum that I have read since the fight was made is FULL of people who are repulsed by the prospect of this fight. There are a minority of voices saying that they think the fight is acceptable, but that is it. This is the only gauge of popular opinion that we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's not widespread disdain. It's a few criticisms from within the hardcore boxing fan community. The reason Manny has selected Mosley is because it is a fight that the widespread boxing fanbase want to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
There is no evidence to suggest that Pacquiao-Mosley is being demanded by the public at this stage. Two years ago there was, but after Mosley has been hammered by Mayweather and laboured his way through 12 rounds against Mora for the draw? Nah, the fight will sell on Pacs current name and the fact that Mosley many years ago was an excellent fighter.
There are better fights and bigger challenges than this and everbody knows it. Were fight fans polled on who they wanted to see Manny fight next? Was this poll secretly given to the general public? Get real, it has been made simply because Mosley went rogue and Arum couldn't turn down the prospect of an easily negotiated fight against an old legend. Easy money in the pocket with a minimal level of risk involvement.
It has next to nothing to do with what the typical boxing fan wants nor expects.
The fight will likely do over 1 million PPV buys making it one of the most popular sporting events of 2010.
I'm sure Manny's team will take the opinions of 1 million paying fans over the whines of a few thousand nonpaying armchair critics any day.
It is a fight being built on Manny's name and that of a guy who was last decent a few years back and was excellent many years before. It is an opportunistic scam and the kind of behaviour that turned people against Floyd Mayweather. Pac is doing precisely the same.
David Diaz was a handpicked paper champion
Oscar was a weight drained corpse
Hatton was shot
Cotto was weight drained and forced to fight at a catchweight
Clottey was overated, Manny looked sluggish, he chose to avoid prime fighters in the division
Margarito should never have got the fight, it was a disgusting catchweight, shouldnt have been for a world title.
Manny ducked Floyd, takes PEDS, only fights old, washed up fighters at catchweights etc etc.
Now it's Mosley is old and shot to bits because he lost Floyd and was robbed of a win against Sergio Mora by the judges.
History will assess the fights above as being so momentus as to earn Manny a spot amongst the top 10 greatest fighters to ever grace the sport. But in the eyes of the whiny minority every fight was a travesty.
Look at the end of the day, the whiners and detractors will lose. Manny will be regarded as one of the greatest fighters ever, and nobody will remember or care about any of the rants of the unknown fools who never have anything positive to say about anything.
Well, I haven't criticised Pacquaio for each of these fights. Sure, I have backed against him, but I always give credit where credit is due. In fact Pac deserves full credit for his wins over DLH, Hatton and Clottey. Less so for his wins over Cotto and Margarito. And David Diaz I disregard completely. Mosley though takes Manny firmly into the Floyd Mayweather stratosphere. You would expect this kind of fight from Hatton managed under Warren at the age of 25, not of the best fighter in the world at the age of 32. It's sad and the only reason we have it is because Mosley has gone rogue and sold himself against the interests of Golden Boy. They wanted Marquez for Pac and at 140 that would have been a corker.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThere are whiny fans who have criticised every single Pacquiao fight since he left the superfeatherweight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesRight, so we disregard the opinions of all the fans on forums even though these are the only voices we know of. You are telling me that the widespread boxing fanbase wants to see this fight. What evidence do you have to suggest that the average armchair fan wants to see Manny Pac fight a 40 year old Mosley who hasn't won in 3 years above all other possible opponents? Has Mosley been dazzling them with his latest performances? Are we to assume that they have been impressed by what they have seen? Sure, with some snazzy marketing people will be led into buying the fight, but as things stand there is no demand for it. You could market a fight with a number of other fighters and still make great money from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThat's forums mate. That's not widespread. Only about 1% of sporting fans are actually sad enough to be posting members of forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesEvery forum that I have read since the fight was made is FULL of people who are repulsed by the prospect of this fight. There are a minority of voices saying that they think the fight is acceptable, but that is it. This is the only gauge of popular opinion that we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's not widespread disdain. It's a few criticisms from within the hardcore boxing fan community. The reason Manny has selected Mosley is because it is a fight that the widespread boxing fanbase want to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
There is no evidence to suggest that Pacquiao-Mosley is being demanded by the public at this stage. Two years ago there was, but after Mosley has been hammered by Mayweather and laboured his way through 12 rounds against Mora for the draw? Nah, the fight will sell on Pacs current name and the fact that Mosley many years ago was an excellent fighter.
There are better fights and bigger challenges than this and everbody knows it. Were fight fans polled on who they wanted to see Manny fight next? Was this poll secretly given to the general public? Get real, it has been made simply because Mosley went rogue and Arum couldn't turn down the prospect of an easily negotiated fight against an old legend. Easy money in the pocket with a minimal level of risk involvement.
It has next to nothing to do with what the typical boxing fan wants nor expects.
The fight will likely do over 1 million PPV buys making it one of the most popular sporting events of 2010.
I'm sure Manny's team will take the opinions of 1 million paying fans over the whines of a few thousand nonpaying armchair critics any day.
It is a fight being built on Manny's name and that of a guy who was last decent a few years back and was excellent many years before. It is an opportunistic scam and the kind of behaviour that turned people against Floyd Mayweather. Pac is doing precisely the same.
David Diaz was a handpicked paper champion
Oscar was a weight drained corpse
Hatton was shot
Cotto was weight drained and forced to fight at a catchweight
Clottey was overated, Manny looked sluggish, he chose to avoid prime fighters in the division
Margarito should never have got the fight, it was a disgusting catchweight, shouldnt have been for a world title.
Manny ducked Floyd, takes PEDS, only fights old, washed up fighters at catchweights etc etc.
Now it's Mosley is old and shot to bits because he lost Floyd and was robbed of a win against Sergio Mora by the judges.
History will assess the fights above as being so momentus as to earn Manny a spot amongst the top 10 greatest fighters to ever grace the sport. But in the eyes of the whiny minority every fight was a travesty.
Look at the end of the day, the whiners and detractors will lose. Manny will be regarded as one of the greatest fighters ever, and nobody will remember or care about any of the rants of the unknown fools who never have anything positive to say about anything.
I am going to use a political analogy here, but I won't go into politics per se. But basically you sound like an official trying to justify one of Stalin's 5 year plans. The detractors were right and they did see through the official party line and history has proven them correct. You can propagandise Manny as much as you like, but the detractors do have a voice and they will ultimately be heard.
I actually like Manny a lot and think he is an awesome fighter, but you can guarantee I will say my piece when I think there is bullshit at hand and everywhere people are complaining about this. Sure, good old 'Stalin' has access to the media and can convince the world that things aren't quite so bad and thus can sell his regime. But you can't sweep it all under the carpet.
This fight has hurt Manny and we are actually hearing negative calls against Manny in the mainstream media too (Yahoo and ESPN).
Note: I used Soviet politics as an analogy only.
PSL made a thread ages ago, about ODLH vs Manny Pacquiao happening in the future. Everyone laughed about it on this forum, saying there's no way Manny Pacquiao can move up. He's too small he will get dominated ETC.
Now that he has moved up, people are saying he has been cherry picking. Even though there has been no one else better that he could of fought. Except Floyd Mayweather Jr obviously.
But no i really don't understand the hate, i mean who would of believed Manny Pacquiao could dominate elite Welterweight's a few years ago ?
He deserves all the credit in the world, what he has done is amazing. Just like what B-Hop has done recently, both fighters are up there with the very best of all time.
Instead of hating or debating we should just sit back and enjoy the ride while is lasts, im just glad im in this era to watch amazing fighters like those 2 i mentioned. They don't come around very often.
Damn right GB. This is a bait thread. ;D
Like the majority, I'm disappointed too. Maybe Pac deserves the hate. But not all of it.
I'm really piss at him for chosing Shane over Berto. Obviously it's more about money now than legacy. But wtf are we gonna do about it?... bitch for 6 months?
This is JMM's fault too. He outpriced himself AGAIN.
So, how much is Mosley being paid as compared to what Marquez asked? Sources?Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Beating Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, would hardly be a reason to get disappointed with your boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Nah, CW's are cool and so is fighting people who should be banned for life and so is fighting old former legend's who have forgotten how to win a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBBeating Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, would hardly be a reason to get disappointed with your boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
But full props on beating Clottey. It wasn't Pac's fault he refused to fight.
Dude. I don't know. I haven't eaten my breakfast. Find it out yourself. :mad::)Quote:
Originally Posted by milesSo, how much is Mosley being paid as compared to what Marquez asked? Sources?Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
But JMM outpriced himself according to Arum. Google that too.
Who else could he have fought at Welterweight ? except for Floyd Mayweather Jr ? the only other name is Andre Berto. Infact Manny Pacquiao cleaned out the division which Floyd Mayweather Jr should of done.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesNah, CW's are cool and so is fighting people who should be banned for life and so is fighting old former legend's who have forgotten how to win a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBBeating Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, would hardly be a reason to get disappointed with your boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
But full props on beating Clottey. It wasn't Pac's fault he refused to fight.
Instead he fought the likes of Carlos Baldomir, Zab Judah, Undersized JMM. We can all hate on anyone's record Miles.
So, that's according to Arum. Fair enough. But patently not true. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Dude. I don't know. I haven't eaten my breakfast. Find it out yourself. :mad::)Quote:
Originally Posted by milesSo, how much is Mosley being paid as compared to what Marquez asked? Sources?Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
But JMM outpriced himself according to Arum. Google that too.
Mosley was selected because he turned rogue and Arum has jumped at the chance. That is why we have this fight. It is nothing to do with Bilbo's nonsense about public demand either, it is simply that Mosley has offered himself on a platter and with Arum looking at the recent history and with Pac's approval they couldn't say no.
Why would they take a bigger risk when they have this. Marquez has beaten Pac twice. Why would you risk it again at 140? In terms of that you can understand Pac. He doesn't want to face a counter puncher that has the blueprint to win rounds against him. At least not under 147. Mosley at 40 and has no stamina beyond 4? It's an ideal platform to look good against.
Bacon bits and sharp cheddar cheese ball with Ritz crackers....this is what Christmas eve is about ;D
oh and bait threads
Are we discussing Manny here or Floyd Mayweather?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBWho else could he have fought at Welterweight ? except for Floyd Mayweather Jr ? the only other name is Andre Berto. Infact Manny Pacquiao cleaned out the division which Floyd Mayweather Jr should of done.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesNah, CW's are cool and so is fighting people who should be banned for life and so is fighting old former legend's who have forgotten how to win a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBBeating Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, would hardly be a reason to get disappointed with your boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
But full props on beating Clottey. It wasn't Pac's fault he refused to fight.
Instead he fought the likes of Carlos Baldomir, Zab Judah, Undersized JMM. We can all hate on anyone's record Miles.
He could be fighting Tim Bradley or indeed Andre Berto. If he really wanted to push the envelope he could fight some proper 154 belt holders. Margarito wasn't one! Lol.
But against a fighter who hasn't won in 3 years? How can you defend that?
You cannot defend it because it is ludicrous. It is like defending Holmes against Ali. It is a great champ against a seriously faded legend. It has no justification.
I am a Mosley fan, I don't want to see him get hurt. What satisfaction can one get from this fight. Nobody wants to see Shane Mosley messed up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesWell, I haven't criticised Pacquaio for each of these fights. Sure, I have backed against him, but I always give credit where credit is due. In fact Pac deserves full credit for his wins over DLH, Hatton and Clottey. Less so for his wins over Cotto and Margarito. And David Diaz I disregard completely. Mosley though takes Manny firmly into the Floyd Mayweather stratosphere. You would expect this kind of fight from Hatton managed under Warren at the age of 25, not of the best fighter in the world at the age of 32. It's sad and the only reason we have it is because Mosley has gone rogue and sold himself against the interests of Golden Boy. They wanted Marquez for Pac and at 140 that would have been a corker.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThere are whiny fans who have criticised every single Pacquiao fight since he left the superfeatherweight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesRight, so we disregard the opinions of all the fans on forums even though these are the only voices we know of. You are telling me that the widespread boxing fanbase wants to see this fight. What evidence do you have to suggest that the average armchair fan wants to see Manny Pac fight a 40 year old Mosley who hasn't won in 3 years above all other possible opponents? Has Mosley been dazzling them with his latest performances? Are we to assume that they have been impressed by what they have seen? Sure, with some snazzy marketing people will be led into buying the fight, but as things stand there is no demand for it. You could market a fight with a number of other fighters and still make great money from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThat's forums mate. That's not widespread. Only about 1% of sporting fans are actually sad enough to be posting members of forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesEvery forum that I have read since the fight was made is FULL of people who are repulsed by the prospect of this fight. There are a minority of voices saying that they think the fight is acceptable, but that is it. This is the only gauge of popular opinion that we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's not widespread disdain. It's a few criticisms from within the hardcore boxing fan community. The reason Manny has selected Mosley is because it is a fight that the widespread boxing fanbase want to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
There is no evidence to suggest that Pacquiao-Mosley is being demanded by the public at this stage. Two years ago there was, but after Mosley has been hammered by Mayweather and laboured his way through 12 rounds against Mora for the draw? Nah, the fight will sell on Pacs current name and the fact that Mosley many years ago was an excellent fighter.
There are better fights and bigger challenges than this and everbody knows it. Were fight fans polled on who they wanted to see Manny fight next? Was this poll secretly given to the general public? Get real, it has been made simply because Mosley went rogue and Arum couldn't turn down the prospect of an easily negotiated fight against an old legend. Easy money in the pocket with a minimal level of risk involvement.
It has next to nothing to do with what the typical boxing fan wants nor expects.
The fight will likely do over 1 million PPV buys making it one of the most popular sporting events of 2010.
I'm sure Manny's team will take the opinions of 1 million paying fans over the whines of a few thousand nonpaying armchair critics any day.
It is a fight being built on Manny's name and that of a guy who was last decent a few years back and was excellent many years before. It is an opportunistic scam and the kind of behaviour that turned people against Floyd Mayweather. Pac is doing precisely the same.
David Diaz was a handpicked paper champion
Oscar was a weight drained corpse
Hatton was shot
Cotto was weight drained and forced to fight at a catchweight
Clottey was overated, Manny looked sluggish, he chose to avoid prime fighters in the division
Margarito should never have got the fight, it was a disgusting catchweight, shouldnt have been for a world title.
Manny ducked Floyd, takes PEDS, only fights old, washed up fighters at catchweights etc etc.
Now it's Mosley is old and shot to bits because he lost Floyd and was robbed of a win against Sergio Mora by the judges.
History will assess the fights above as being so momentus as to earn Manny a spot amongst the top 10 greatest fighters to ever grace the sport. But in the eyes of the whiny minority every fight was a travesty.
Look at the end of the day, the whiners and detractors will lose. Manny will be regarded as one of the greatest fighters ever, and nobody will remember or care about any of the rants of the unknown fools who never have anything positive to say about anything.
I am going to use a political analogy here, but I won't go into politics per se. But basically you sound like an official trying to justify one of Stalin's 5 year plans. The detractors were right and they did see through the official party line and history has proven them correct. You can propagandise Manny as much as you like, but the detractors do have a voice and they will ultimately be heard.
I actually like Manny a lot and think he is an awesome fighter, but you can guarantee I will say my piece when I think there is bullshit at hand and everywhere people are complaining about this. Sure, good old 'Stalin' has access to the media and can convince the world that things aren't quite so bad and thus can sell his regime. But you can't sweep it all under the carpet.
This fight has hurt Manny and we are actually hearing negative calls against Manny in the mainstream media too (Yahoo and ESPN).
Note: I used Soviet politics as an analogy only.
haha this is a sign of how nuts you are! I am not propagandising anything, you are! Shane Mosley has been one of the best fighters of our current generation and all of a sudden after a loss to arguably the world's greatest fighter in Floyd Mayweather he's now washed up, useless, it's a mismatch etc.
Fight fans like you are so fickle. You always judge everything off the last fight. One minute Manny has to fight this guy, a few months later when he is fighting this guy now it's too late, he's washed up, the fight is meaningless.
You argue everything retrospectively, as soon as a fighter has a slip any further wins against him amount to nothing, but if he wins his next fight, all of a sudden he's back in the picture and being dodged again.
Nobody needs to justify Shane Mosley getting a fight against anyone. He's been one of the greatest fighters in the sport for the past 10 years. So he lost one sidedly to Floyd, so what? Marquez lost even more one sidedly. He was floored in his last fight by Michael Katsidis? You don't think Mosley could beat Katsidis?
Mosely deserves his shot. Virtually everyone saw him winning against Sergio Mora, a fighter who had beaten Vernon Forrest, who had twice beaten Shane. Shane has never coped well with tall rangy fighters.
Manny is smaller than him, and a come forward fighter, Shane's ideal opponent to look good against.
With your mindset some of the most famous fights in history couldn't have happened, because the fighter who won didn't deserve to even be in the ring.
You would moaned like fuck about George Foreman taking on a washed up Ali, after years out of the sport, in prison, what a joke fight. You would rained on Mike Tyson for taking on a washed up Evander Holyfield. Bernard Hopkins had no business being in the ring with Jean Pascal last week at 45. And what was Michael Moorer thinking in defending his title against a fat grandfather in George Foreman at 45, in another mismatch joke fight.
You lose all perspective with your whines and gripes.
Pacquaio vs Mosley is a fun fight, it's a great matchup and very crowd friendly. Right now Mosley is the underdog for sure. But are underdogs no longer allowed to exist in fights in Miles' world?
It's a great fight for Manny, a world respected name, a guy who was regarded as the man in the welterweight division only a year or so ago.
You going off about Stalin and propaganda just shows what a loon you are ;D