Who do you think will win?
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Who do you think will win?
Deng. A poll on this thread would've been great.
Mosley for me. If Katsidis and Juan Diaz can rock Marquez these days Shane can knock him out.
Anti pac believe JMM can treat Hatton at 140 like how JMM treated Diaz, Katsidis. I wonder if they will go as far and claim JMM will treat Cotto at 145, Margo at 150, Clottey and MOsley at 147 the way Pac will/have.
Damn Great Post!!!
Makes the best point!!!;)
Mosely starches Marquez:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
What makes you think he can't?? His fight with Floyd???
Or his fight with Pacquiao??;)
Both, he had two chances and couldn't beat a young one demensional pacman below lightweight. And he couldnt win a round against Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crashQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
What makes you think he can't?? His fight with Floyd???
Or his fight with Pacquiao??;)
Do you think he will be successful above 135?
Which fight did he start showing he wasn't one dimensional?
The Diaz fight?
I think he would do well if he chose his opponents right just like..
Mosely is a career 147er. Marquez is unproven at 135+.
I guess the more appropriate question is... Will a bloated JMM be competitive against Mosely at 147?
Anyone with half a brain knows JMM has zero chance at 147 against even a faded Mosley or Margarito at 150.
BTW PSL you're making this thread is trying to justify Pac fighting Mosley when a lot of people are disappointed he took the fight. It is what it is, money is the no. 1 factor for all fighters.
Actually aside from Diaz I think everyone pac fought above featherweight would of damage him severely if he hadn't change his jab jab straight left style.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
Who leads Pac most wanted list? Mayweather, you think JMM is better then Floyd? Cause your logic is that - pac hand picks his opponent, right? Him wanting Floyd should mean Floyd is tailor made for pac just like the other opponent he has pick/destroyed right?
JMM not getting the fight with pac, does not mean he has a chance at beating this version of pac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainActually aside from Diaz I think everyone pac fought above featherweight would of damage him severely if he hadn't change his jab jab straight left style.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
Who leads Pac most wanted list? Mayweather, you think JMM is better then Floyd? Cause your logic is that - pac hand picks his opponent, right? Him wanting Floyd should mean Floyd is tailor made for pac just like the other opponent he has pick/destroyed right?
JMM not getting the fight with pac, does not mean he has a chance at beating this version of pac.
Obviously, Floyd was the better fighter when he fought Marquez.
And when Pac "wanted" Floyd he put million dollar penalties which were agreed upon.
But for some reason he was too afraid of needles to take the fight.
And Mosley would most likely KO Marquez you don't have to know much to know that.
You're already going to say "oh then pac/mosley >>>> pac/marquez
With that comment its already clear to me that it is pointless to continue replying to you in the future. There is obviously more to that negotiation then what you would like to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crashQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainActually aside from Diaz I think everyone pac fought above featherweight would of damage him severely if he hadn't change his jab jab straight left style.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
Who leads Pac most wanted list? Mayweather, you think JMM is better then Floyd? Cause your logic is that - pac hand picks his opponent, right? Him wanting Floyd should mean Floyd is tailor made for pac just like the other opponent he has pick/destroyed right?
JMM not getting the fight with pac, does not mean he has a chance at beating this version of pac.
Obviously, Floyd was the better fighter when he fought Marquez.
And when Pac "wanted" Floyd he put million dollar penalties which were agreed upon.
But for some reason he was too afraid of needles to take the fight.
And Mosley would most likely KO Marquez you don't have to know much to know that.
You're already going to say "oh then pac/mosley >>>> pac/marquez
Of course there is I followed that negotiation very closely, both times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainWith that comment its already clear to me that it is pointless to continue replying to you in the future. There is obviously more to that negotiation then what you would like to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crashQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainActually aside from Diaz I think everyone pac fought above featherweight would of damage him severely if he hadn't change his jab jab straight left style.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
Who leads Pac most wanted list? Mayweather, you think JMM is better then Floyd? Cause your logic is that - pac hand picks his opponent, right? Him wanting Floyd should mean Floyd is tailor made for pac just like the other opponent he has pick/destroyed right?
JMM not getting the fight with pac, does not mean he has a chance at beating this version of pac.
Obviously, Floyd was the better fighter when he fought Marquez.
And when Pac "wanted" Floyd he put million dollar penalties which were agreed upon.
But for some reason he was too afraid of needles to take the fight.
And Mosley would most likely KO Marquez you don't have to know much to know that.
You're already going to say "oh then pac/mosley >>>> pac/marquez
Floyd went on vacation second time; Pac would get too drained first time.
To reply to the original question, Mosley at 147 would be too big, too strong, too much for Marquez. Mosley is faster at 147, than JMM is at 145. Mosley also hits much harder.
Juan Manuel Marquez would most likely not hurt Mosley.
But Marquez/Mosley at 140 what do you think about that???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Does it bother you that much that you will just completely ignore that fact?
That is very embarrassing, IMO.
You could have only brought up that Floyd announced vacation and didn't show his face until Margarito fight was announced, and I could have cared less. Guess why?? Because it's true; it's a fact.
You know what else is embarrassing? The A-Side meth accusations that Pac is on a drug that makes one invincible to not only punches in the boxing ring but bullets on the battle field of war. This whole stuff about PEDs started right there with the A-Side meth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE1BOXZ1Wnk
They sure are embarrassing; and I told one of my friends recently that they only hurt they're accusations by making up that A-meth drug.
They're credibility sure did drop didn't it??
Now generalbulldog, do you think I am going to completely ignore you're post and the fact that the Mayeather's said that? Of course not. It happened, they said it. And there is even a video of him saying it right?
Don't bring up the fact that Pacquiao hates needles to Pacquiao fans though. Oh no, don't do that. You will be shunned.LOL.
Of course Manny's side messed up with the whole needles things and the way they handle it. I for sure don't ignored that nor do I revise history like some do with any subject.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
pointless thread, trying to justify Pacquiao fighting Mosley, styles make fights, and IMO Marquez beat Pacquiao twice although he would lose to Mosley he'd probably still give him hell at 140
What are we going to do when we dont have Manny and Floyd to obsess on ???
Marquez has a much more left in big picture and is a superior tactical boxer. Always has been. But Mosley is just huge compared,will be over 147 no doubt and can still bang with a solid beard...and Marquez does not speak "run". Mosley drops him and very possibly takes late tko.
Well I think 2 reasons why this thread was created is because a few Pac members are trying to justify Pac's fight with Mosley at this stage and I also think it has to do with another thread around here where people were saying that JMM could also beat guys like Hatton, Margarito, Clottey, and Cotto because Pac did it, therefore JMM would do it also because he beat Pac twice in some people's eyes. You know the infamous triangle theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I agree, I personally didn't prefer the Mosley fight. I did prefer the JMM fight but honestly I think that was harder to make then MOsley. Mosley is already a welterweight and is willing to negotiate with Top Rank. JMM had price himself out a few times before, it seem like he really wants to fight, right? Another issue with JMM is the weightclass. I still hope to see a third fight with JMM but I aint got no problem seeing Mosley get a shot. I think JMMs next fight should be at 140, just to see how he does.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogWell I think 2 reasons why this thread was created is because a few Pac members are trying to justify Pac's fight with Mosley at this stage and I also think it has to do with another thread around here where people were saying that JMM could also beat guys like Hatton, Margarito, Clottey, and Cotto because Pac did it, therefore JMM would do it also because he beat Pac twice in some people's eyes. You know the infamous triangle theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Mosley beats Marquez, but Marquez gives Pacquiao a tougher fight than Mosley :p.
I think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Styles make fights and all that jazz.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
i respectfully believe marquez should retire.
he's an amazing fighter and should get out before he gives too much.
I just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.
Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.
Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.
Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.
I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.
And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.
Yes, it does sound weird and I said as much above, but based on the styles it is just the assumption that I come to.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.
Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.
Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.
Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.
I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.
And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.
Marquez knows how to win rounds against Manny. His counter punching style is the perfect counter to the type of style that Manny has. But having said that I don't think he has any business fighting at 147 at the age of 37. It's just too much for him. 140 is as far as he gets IMO.
Mosley hasn't really shown us all that much a long time now. Margarito was able to stay in the fight against Manny because he was so well conditioned and ready to withstand 12 rounds of hard boxing and throw 70 punches a round. Mosley is a better fighter than Margarito, but that was 3 years ago and unfortunately Mosley cannot condition himself to fight at the kind of pace Manny will set. At least Marquez knew how to neutralise the output somewhat, but Mosley hasn't been showing a ring IQ for a long time now. He gets frustrated, loads up and starts to wing his punches. Marquez would never do that.
Like CFH said, styles make fights. I just like the style of Marquez over that of Mosley when it comes to dealing with what Pac has to offer.
Do people disagree with this? Mosley is 'comfortable' at welterweight (I dont think he struggles to get there, but he does dry himself up alot). Marquez isn't. JMM is a boxer getting old and obviously can't/doesn't want to cut weight anymore, so he's fighting in higher divisions while chasing Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.
Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.
Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.
Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.
I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.
And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.
See I think the problem is people compare "Well Mosley is a better fight at 147 for Pacquiao than Marquez"Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeHDo people disagree with this? Mosley is 'comfortable' at welterweight (I dont think he struggles to get there, but he does dry himself up alot). Marquez isn't. JMM is a boxer getting old and obviously can't/doesn't want to cut weight anymore, so he's fighting in higher divisions while chasing Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.
Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.
Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.
Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.
I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.
And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.
But the real thing is, Pacquiao would ONLY fight Marquez if it was at 147, even though he can easily make 140 and probably make 138 too since he barely makes 147 and usually many pounds under it on fight day. So basically Pacquiao isn't going to fight Marquez unless he has an advantage of some type.
If the question was "Marquez at 138" or "Mosley at 147" who gives Pacquiao a tougher fight, then Marquez would be the obvious answer and fight choice. But Manny doesn't want any part of Marquez south of 147. thus why people are comparing Marquez at 147 and say if Pacquiao MUST fight at 147, then Mosley will give him a better challenge then Marquez would by moving up and putting himself at such a disadvantage for the fight.
I think that's the initial point people want to get to, but initially lose it so they say "Mosley would beat Marquez at 147 so he is better for Manny at 147" ignoring the whole styles make fights thing, when what all this really comes down to, is the weight. Manny doesn't want Marquez at any class south of 147. So if it comes down to that, then yes Mosley is the better fight because Mosley won't be entering the fight at a disadvantage or outside of his weight class.
But in terms of WHO would give Pacquiao a tougher fight, Marquez would always give him a tougher fight than Mosley would, but Pacquiao has to get the gull to want to fight him at 138 for that to happen, and he doesn't. So Mosley is what people shall get.
Ah, here's the thing though. Many people believed that JMM is a better fighter than Pac in terms of skills. Remember when JMM fought Floyd and many people including myself said it had nothing to do with weight but skills? Well if JMM is better than Pac in terms of skills why not challenge him there at WW?
And this whole Pac has to accommodate JMM is a load of rubbish. In business and politics, the party that has the leverage will use it. In boxing this is weight class, ring size, glove size, fight purse, split of other revenues, etc. Did De La Hoya and Leonard accommodate their foes? No. It was on their terms, the same applies here, it's on Manny's terms because he is 1/2 the face of boxing. Just like he had to meet all of Oscar's demands when they fought, so should JMM meet Pac's demands if they fight.
That's how it is and that's how the game is played, it has been that way for decades now.
I think this is a ridiculous viewpoint frankly. Manny has had to move to where the challenges are so why not Marquez? When Manny fought Miguel Cotto, he negotiated a catchweight where Cotto gave up one single pound from his ideal fighting weight, and the haters wents nuts and screamed that Manny was forcing his opponents to lose on the scales.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestySee I think the problem is people compare "Well Mosley is a better fight at 147 for Pacquiao than Marquez"Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeHDo people disagree with this? Mosley is 'comfortable' at welterweight (I dont think he struggles to get there, but he does dry himself up alot). Marquez isn't. JMM is a boxer getting old and obviously can't/doesn't want to cut weight anymore, so he's fighting in higher divisions while chasing Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.
Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.
Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.
Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.
I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.
And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.
But the real thing is, Pacquiao would ONLY fight Marquez if it was at 147, even though he can easily make 140 and probably make 138 too since he barely makes 147 and usually many pounds under it on fight day. So basically Pacquiao isn't going to fight Marquez unless he has an advantage of some type.
If the question was "Marquez at 138" or "Mosley at 147" who gives Pacquiao a tougher fight, then Marquez would be the obvious answer and fight choice. But Manny doesn't want any part of Marquez south of 147. thus why people are comparing Marquez at 147 and say if Pacquiao MUST fight at 147, then Mosley will give him a better challenge then Marquez would by moving up and putting himself at such a disadvantage for the fight.
I think that's the initial point people want to get to, but initially lose it so they say "Mosley would beat Marquez at 147 so he is better for Manny at 147" ignoring the whole styles make fights thing, when what all this really comes down to, is the weight. Manny doesn't want Marquez at any class south of 147. So if it comes down to that, then yes Mosley is the better fight because Mosley won't be entering the fight at a disadvantage or outside of his weight class.
But in terms of WHO would give Pacquiao a tougher fight, Marquez would always give him a tougher fight than Mosley would, but Pacquiao has to get the gull to want to fight him at 138 for that to happen, and he doesn't. So Mosley is what people shall get.
Yet for Marquez they expect Manny to move down two divisions to give J Manuel the best possible chance and don't see the sheer hypocrisy of such a position.
Manny is fighting at welterweight now. He's the guy with holding all the cards so why in the world should he move back down to lightweight or light welter to give Marquez a rematch with a better chance? People literally hate on Manny for asking Cotto to drop a single pound, and believe he is weight draining his opponents, yet because he won't drop two entire divisions to face Marquez in a rematch they see him as forcing Marquez up to a weight where he is too heavy, thus losing on the scales again.
He cannot win. You expect Manny to be a yoyo who goes up and down the weight classes fighting opponents at the best weight for them.
He is the champion and the guy that everybody wants to beat. They want him they have to go to where he is.
Manny had to over-eat to make 144, so he doesn't have to be a full welterweight, they use this to hype his fights like he can barely even make weight that high, yet if he is asked to move down in weight its a stretch for him? How does that make sense? All of his fights at welterweight, the astounding hype about them is that he barely makes 144, and that he not a welterweight, but if you say "why not a fight at 140 or even 138" its a stretch too far and a disadvantage for Pacquiao? How is that? he can move down with no problem while not disadvantaging himself and if anything he'd be fighting people more his size instead of the 'more dangerous bigger guys' as they are hyped. He can obviously make that weight, to say that Marquez "has" to move up to get a fight with him otherwise he is at a disadvantage is basically like saying that being on even terms with Marquez is a disadvantage for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI think this is a ridiculous viewpoint frankly. Manny has had to move to where the challenges are so why not Marquez? When Manny fought Miguel Cotto, he negotiated a catchweight where Cotto gave up one single pound from his ideal fighting weight, and the haters wents nuts and screamed that Manny was forcing his opponents to lose on the scales.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestySee I think the problem is people compare "Well Mosley is a better fight at 147 for Pacquiao than Marquez"Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeHDo people disagree with this? Mosley is 'comfortable' at welterweight (I dont think he struggles to get there, but he does dry himself up alot). Marquez isn't. JMM is a boxer getting old and obviously can't/doesn't want to cut weight anymore, so he's fighting in higher divisions while chasing Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.
Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.
Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.
Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.
I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.
And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.
But the real thing is, Pacquiao would ONLY fight Marquez if it was at 147, even though he can easily make 140 and probably make 138 too since he barely makes 147 and usually many pounds under it on fight day. So basically Pacquiao isn't going to fight Marquez unless he has an advantage of some type.
If the question was "Marquez at 138" or "Mosley at 147" who gives Pacquiao a tougher fight, then Marquez would be the obvious answer and fight choice. But Manny doesn't want any part of Marquez south of 147. thus why people are comparing Marquez at 147 and say if Pacquiao MUST fight at 147, then Mosley will give him a better challenge then Marquez would by moving up and putting himself at such a disadvantage for the fight.
I think that's the initial point people want to get to, but initially lose it so they say "Mosley would beat Marquez at 147 so he is better for Manny at 147" ignoring the whole styles make fights thing, when what all this really comes down to, is the weight. Manny doesn't want Marquez at any class south of 147. So if it comes down to that, then yes Mosley is the better fight because Mosley won't be entering the fight at a disadvantage or outside of his weight class.
But in terms of WHO would give Pacquiao a tougher fight, Marquez would always give him a tougher fight than Mosley would, but Pacquiao has to get the gull to want to fight him at 138 for that to happen, and he doesn't. So Mosley is what people shall get.
Yet for Marquez they expect Manny to move down two divisions to give J Manuel the best possible chance and don't see the sheer hypocrisy of such a position.
Manny is fighting at welterweight now. He's the guy with holding all the cards so why in the world should he move back down to lightweight or light welter to give Marquez a rematch with a better chance? People literally hate on Manny for asking Cotto to drop a single pound, and believe he is weight draining his opponents, yet because he won't drop two entire divisions to face Marquez in a rematch they see him as forcing Marquez up to a weight where he is too heavy, thus losing on the scales again.
He cannot win. You expect Manny to be a yoyo who goes up and down the weight classes fighting opponents at the best weight for them.
He is the champion and the guy that everybody wants to beat. They want him they have to go to where he is.
THAT is not such a ridiculous notion, this is why he will not fight Marquez on even terms, because he is playing the same game other boxers are criticized for by wanting to make a fighter like Marquez come up to fight him instead of fighting him on even terms. If he is the "best" as people say he is for the love of challenge and number 1 p4p then shouldnt he be able to fight Marquez at any weight he can make without a disadvantage? You can't tell me Pacquiao can't make 138 or at LEAST 140 and be weight drained. it's just the simple fact that on even terms, Marquez is a bigger problem for Pacquiao and he doesn't want to take that risk given the position he's in and the demands he can make. That's just how it is. And he should be criticized like the rest of the boxers that have been in his position and been guilty of the same things.
Well if Manny is a natural 138 lber and has no advantage being heavier why can't Marquez fight him at 147, seeing as they are both the same size and all?Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyManny had to over-eat to make 144, so he doesn't have to be a full welterweight, they use this to hype his fights like he can barely even make weight that high, yet if he is asked to move down in weight its a stretch for him? How does that make sense? All of his fights at welterweight, the astounding hype about them is that he barely makes 144, and that he not a welterweight, but if you say "why not a fight at 140 or even 138" its a stretch too far and a disadvantage for Pacquiao? How is that? he can move down with no problem while not disadvantaging himself and if anything he'd be fighting people more his size instead of the 'more dangerous bigger guys' as they are hyped. He can obviously make that weight, to say that Marquez "has" to move up to get a fight with him otherwise he is at a disadvantage is basically like saying that being on even terms with Marquez is a disadvantage for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI think this is a ridiculous viewpoint frankly. Manny has had to move to where the challenges are so why not Marquez? When Manny fought Miguel Cotto, he negotiated a catchweight where Cotto gave up one single pound from his ideal fighting weight, and the haters wents nuts and screamed that Manny was forcing his opponents to lose on the scales.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestySee I think the problem is people compare "Well Mosley is a better fight at 147 for Pacquiao than Marquez"Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeHDo people disagree with this? Mosley is 'comfortable' at welterweight (I dont think he struggles to get there, but he does dry himself up alot). Marquez isn't. JMM is a boxer getting old and obviously can't/doesn't want to cut weight anymore, so he's fighting in higher divisions while chasing Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.
Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.
Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.
Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.
I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.
And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.
But the real thing is, Pacquiao would ONLY fight Marquez if it was at 147, even though he can easily make 140 and probably make 138 too since he barely makes 147 and usually many pounds under it on fight day. So basically Pacquiao isn't going to fight Marquez unless he has an advantage of some type.
If the question was "Marquez at 138" or "Mosley at 147" who gives Pacquiao a tougher fight, then Marquez would be the obvious answer and fight choice. But Manny doesn't want any part of Marquez south of 147. thus why people are comparing Marquez at 147 and say if Pacquiao MUST fight at 147, then Mosley will give him a better challenge then Marquez would by moving up and putting himself at such a disadvantage for the fight.
I think that's the initial point people want to get to, but initially lose it so they say "Mosley would beat Marquez at 147 so he is better for Manny at 147" ignoring the whole styles make fights thing, when what all this really comes down to, is the weight. Manny doesn't want Marquez at any class south of 147. So if it comes down to that, then yes Mosley is the better fight because Mosley won't be entering the fight at a disadvantage or outside of his weight class.
But in terms of WHO would give Pacquiao a tougher fight, Marquez would always give him a tougher fight than Mosley would, but Pacquiao has to get the gull to want to fight him at 138 for that to happen, and he doesn't. So Mosley is what people shall get.
Yet for Marquez they expect Manny to move down two divisions to give J Manuel the best possible chance and don't see the sheer hypocrisy of such a position.
Manny is fighting at welterweight now. He's the guy with holding all the cards so why in the world should he move back down to lightweight or light welter to give Marquez a rematch with a better chance? People literally hate on Manny for asking Cotto to drop a single pound, and believe he is weight draining his opponents, yet because he won't drop two entire divisions to face Marquez in a rematch they see him as forcing Marquez up to a weight where he is too heavy, thus losing on the scales again.
He cannot win. You expect Manny to be a yoyo who goes up and down the weight classes fighting opponents at the best weight for them.
He is the champion and the guy that everybody wants to beat. They want him they have to go to where he is.
THAT is not such a ridiculous notion, this is why he will not fight Marquez on even terms, because he is playing the same game other boxers are criticized for by wanting to make a fighter like Marquez come up to fight him instead of fighting him on even terms. If he is the "best" as people say he is for the love of challenge and number 1 p4p then shouldnt he be able to fight Marquez at any weight he can make without a disadvantage? You can't tell me Pacquiao can't make 138 or at LEAST 140 and be weight drained. it's just the simple fact that on even terms, Marquez is a bigger problem for Pacquiao and he doesn't want to take that risk given the position he's in and the demands he can make. That's just how it is. And he should be criticized like the rest of the boxers that have been in his position and been guilty of the same things.
It is completely illogical to say that Manny would not be disadvantaged in any way by moving down two weight classes whilst saying it is unfair for Marquez to have to fight him at 147 where he will be disadvantaged. How will he be disadvantaged at 147 if Manny gains nothing from the extra weight?
I think it's clear to see that Manny has looked sensational since moving to welter and that this is where he performs best.
MOsley vs JMM today at 147?
Mosley! The weight advantage will be to much. Skill vs skills, JMM will win that "argument". But Mosley is to smart to not us his advantage on a much smaller opponent. Besides Mosley has a good chin. Always did. And if Diaz can't stand for 8 or 9 rounds, Mosley can't have that puncher chance, even if he gets outbox for 12 rounds. And we all know that JMM gets hit and touch the canvas quite a few times.
Mosley vs JMM in the prime at any weight(catchweight) 140?
Mosley! JMM skills is superb but Mosley in his prime was a beast himself. Mosley in his prime was KOing people like that was the only way to win. Mosley KO percentage in his first 40 fights(before Forrest) was like 90%. JMM would have just been another victim.
Better fight for Pacman?
Tough to choose. Cause right now, at any weight, Manny would ko JMM. Just the simply knock downs would change to KNOCKED OUT! That's at 140 or even worst, 147. Not saying that it would be any easy fight. JMM maybe the only fighter that use counter punching against Manny effectively. Effectively cause Cotto was on the run and in survival mode. And IMO, that's the style thats gives Manny more trouble then a striaght forward fighter. On the other hand, Mosley chin can stand longer then JMM. And Mosley was and always will be willing to trade punches if someone is willing to trade with him. Problem is, Manny don't trade. Manny hit, cut and angle, bounce in and out, regroup and repeat. But he gives his opponents a chance to hit him if they are willing to get hit. Mosley is that fighter! And if Mosley hit Manny, and Manny tap his gloves and throw his arms in the air, get ready for Mosley to get the ko with a trading Manny that want to get his hit back.
BTW Mosley by KO rd 8 or 9
You guys are giving JMM way too much credit for beating the guys he had recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestySee I think the problem is people compare "Well Mosley is a better fight at 147 for Pacquiao than Marquez"Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeHDo people disagree with this? Mosley is 'comfortable' at welterweight (I dont think he struggles to get there, but he does dry himself up alot). Marquez isn't. JMM is a boxer getting old and obviously can't/doesn't want to cut weight anymore, so he's fighting in higher divisions while chasing Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think so too, boxing is really strange that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.
Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.
Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.
Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.
I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.
And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.
But the real thing is, Pacquiao would ONLY fight Marquez if it was at 147, even though he can easily make 140 and probably make 138 too since he barely makes 147 and usually many pounds under it on fight day. So basically Pacquiao isn't going to fight Marquez unless he has an advantage of some type.
If the question was "Marquez at 138" or "Mosley at 147" who gives Pacquiao a tougher fight, then Marquez would be the obvious answer and fight choice. But Manny doesn't want any part of Marquez south of 147. thus why people are comparing Marquez at 147 and say if Pacquiao MUST fight at 147, then Mosley will give him a better challenge then Marquez would by moving up and putting himself at such a disadvantage for the fight.
I think that's the initial point people want to get to, but initially lose it so they say "Mosley would beat Marquez at 147 so he is better for Manny at 147" ignoring the whole styles make fights thing, when what all this really comes down to, is the weight. Manny doesn't want Marquez at any class south of 147. So if it comes down to that, then yes Mosley is the better fight because Mosley won't be entering the fight at a disadvantage or outside of his weight class.
But in terms of WHO would give Pacquiao a tougher fight, Marquez would always give him a tougher fight than Mosley would, but Pacquiao has to get the gull to want to fight him at 138 for that to happen, and he doesn't. So Mosley is what people shall get.
Are there any fighter that JMM recently fought that Pac wouldn't smash? Now think what chance would JMM have against the guys pac recently fought? Dont say well weight is going to determine results. No just think if JMM would also do what Pac has done. Do you think JMM will still be in the mix, if JMM even tried to do what Pac did and win at 140,145,147,150? Now think, if pac would fight the same guys JMM had fought recently, what chance do you think those guys will have against pac? None.
I think JMM is only in the mix now because he continues to win over guys Pac would assault to death. I would really like to see JMM try and come up to 140 and get a win there over anybody let alone against the best p4p fighter today.
Also why would you expect pac to come down for JMM at 138? What chance did you think that happening with floyd then?
Honestly the weight shouldn't matter with this fight - JMM vs Pac III. People just know for a fact that pac would demolish JMM anywhere above 140. So they dont even want to see that, they preferto see it below 141. Where they believe JMM has a chance.
Tell me the last time JMM cherry picked an opponent, or even had a spec of controversy over his choice competition? In his move up in weight chasing PAC, had he picked the lowest hanging fruit and the softest over blown promotional hyped dangerous "in house challenges"?
My question is, would Freddy Roach have accepted a fight at 147 with DLH, Mosely, Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas in the late 90's or early 2000's or would he try fighting old welters like Whitaker and Chavez? I think we know the answer. PAC has done great things in his career and outside the ring he is a heck of a good guy and enough great things can't be said..
But let's not be fooled into thinking all the risks he took weren't 100% controlled and measured.. Because there is no way in he'll he fights the Cotto at 147 who beat Mosely or the Mosely who beat Margarito or a prime Delahoya
Why 138 Majesty? Why not just make it 135 for 5th lineal belt?
I don't like Pac-Mosely matchup either. But it is what it is now. And the funny thing is, no matter how people will bitch about it... it will still earn a million ppv buys. :o:p Lol
Anyways. Arum is a scum of the earth. But I kinda agree with him on this one... Arum: Berto-Marquez Should Happen For Pacquiao Shot
Arum: Berto Needs More Exposure To Get a Pacquiao ShotQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
I like his idea. He's a genius bastard.
Did you not think that Manny having to over-eat to make 144 is just to hyped the fight as what you said? Manny hasn't weighted at 140 and below since his fight with Hatton on May 2009.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Wasn't that what Pac had been doing, going up in weight to challenge heavier fighters rather than have them go down to his weight class? (I almost can hear someone again criticizing Manny for weight draining his opponent by asking him to loss 1 pound.;D) If Manny can do it and JMM is better than Manny, then he should be able to do it, too.
It's not the end of th world for JMM. He will have a chance after Pacquiao-Mosley but he will be able to make his chance better by fighting a worthy opponent at 140.