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Or is Kelly going to end up like Hatton. Fractured by the B-hop loss and mauled by Martinez only to spiral downward never to recover..
I dont see whats out there at middleweight for Martinez? When Arthur Abraham finishes the super 6 maybe that would be a good fight. I remember him saying he is no 168 lb fighter and gives to much size away.
Hey JT, don't often see you on the boards.
I feel sorry for Pavlik. He went from being one of the most popular fighters in the game to being almost detested and considered a shot joke of a fighter within a couple years.
I still like him and still think he has the potential to be a real force again. He seems to have lost his confidence though and it might be hard to get that back.
I always found him a fun fighter to watch though and I'd like to see him in the mix again but it might be a long road back.
Him against Paul Williams finally would be a great crossroads fight.
Pavlik can be back as long as he sticks to 160 and gets some of the crispness back which the loss of may be attributed to his problems outside the ring. If you watch the pavlik that beat taylor or miranda his 1-2 is very fast and crisp, and then after he just started looking more slugish and slugish. He's only had 2 defeats, one at the hands of an atg, and one to a very good fighter in martinez and pavlik made that decently competitive if I remember right, no shame in that. So yeah I think he can definitely be back as long as he straightens out his life.
I dont think he can beat Martinez even if he gets his head straight. Martinez' speed is too much for Pavlik. If and when Pavlik gets his life straightened out i think it will be too late to have any meaningful fights. I hope he gets it together for life outside the ring, i wish him luck.
What's good JT?
I think no matter what if Pavlik-Sergio fight today, next month and next year Sergio beats him 9 out of 10 times.
Sergios style is all wrong for Pavlik. Pavlik beats conventional fighters and or fighters who decide to stand and trade shots with him.
He's been outboxed twice by two guys who used the entire ring and would jump in and out.
What Pavlik needs is a good 2 win fight streak to set him up with a 3rd fight for a title.
Possible opponents:
Manfredo - Pretty known and would be a good money fight for Peter and a something to build on for Pavlik.
David Lopez - Has racked up some good wins and is on a streak but his style is taylor made for Pavlik. Take 2 or 3 to land 1.
Kassim Ouma - Former champ and know just picked up some strap. He lasts in the ring but a fight Pavlik should win.
Lastly maybe Ossie Duran who just beat Vanda.
What about Chavez Jr and Andy Lee? Both are pretty high profile and I think Pavlik can knock them both out. That would make a statement. I didn't even know Ouma was still around, I thought he lost like 5 in a row or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I would like to see Pavlik back towards the top again.... I think physically he can still be there, he just needs a serious brain flush and refresh and start all over again...
In all the boxing I have watched, I have never seen the life and fire go out of a boxers eyes in the face of a loss than I saw in Pavlik after the B-Hop loss when Hopkins was giving him the talk about how he's still great, he just lost to an even greater fighter.....
Pavlik is an incredibly likable guy from a supportive city that doesn't raise to many champion boxers, and if it had not been for the loss to Hopkins, would still be incredibly loved I think.... But that was a perfect example of how mentally challenging it can be for boxers to deal with losses.... Of course the physical toll of a loss can be something, but some guys just lose an instinct and fire that they never get back after a loss....
You would think Pavlik won't be the same, but geez, KO'ing a few of the guys on Mick's or Biblo's lists and he could be able to refresh his brain and get back that slugger instinct that he had before...
Would love to see that again..
Just dont see it. I think he's shell shocked vs a tricky mover with quick hands and self belief. He needs to just get in the ring firstly....break cycle, maybe get outta hometown (??) and start rebuild. You only get so many do-overs.
I think he's done. He had success not by using fundamentals but by being bigger and stronger than everyone he fought. He finally fought some guys that fought smarter than him and he got beat down.
I think with as hard as he took that first loss and with the personal issues he's had recently that it would be impossible for him to rebound to even become a title holder again. I think he'll lose at 168 say he's weight drained, try 175 and have fleeting success before he hangs up the gloves.
Personally I think he still could beat Martinez. In that fight I thought he slowly started to turn the tide and then he knocked Martinez down. He seemed to have found a way to stop Martinez's movement with a simple jab to the body. Then the next round he got cut and he rapidly faded from there on. I think he was weight drained for that fight and could do much better and probably beat Martinez in a rematch.
Its crazy, how Pavlik made the adjustment and had the fight until the 9th round when the cuts on Kelly energized Martinez. I know that's boxing and it's a 12 round fight and Sergio rose to the occasion but Pavlik looked poised and not a man on mental eggshells.<br />
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Andy Lee is interesting to me because Emanuel Steward has this self belief that this kid is the genuine article. I know he has to say the right things since he is the trainer but none the less it seems a step beyond that.<br />
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Could Martinez beat a technically sound true Middleweight that wasn't a plodder? Martinez is athletically gifted with 0 shred of technical ability in a sense that he could be exposed by someone who has a good Jab and decent handspeed
What about Strum? Even if he has to go in his backyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhat about Chavez Jr and Andy Lee? Both are pretty high profile and I think Pavlik can knock them both out. That would make a statement. I didn't even know Ouma was still around, I thought he lost like 5 in a row or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Allan Green would be a good crossroad fight.
Pavli will KO Paul Williams right now.
Whomever it may be, Pavlik needs to fight soon and often.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Could probably add John Duddy to that list as well. It'd be an exciting fight while it lasted. 2 guys, with decent followings who like to trade. Decent undercard fight on anyone's card.
I agree with everything else Mick says in this post. Sergio is too fast and presents Pavlik with too many angles. If his team believed it was possible, I don't think they would have waved the rematch clause.
There is no way in fucking hell they put Jr in front of Pavlik... Ouma was on a losing streak but won his last fight and picked up some strap.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhat about Chavez Jr and Andy Lee? Both are pretty high profile and I think Pavlik can knock them both out. That would make a statement. I didn't even know Ouma was still around, I thought he lost like 5 in a row or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I think he could beat Martinez in a rematch...if he got healthy and sober. According to a story on yahoo Pavlik briefly entered rehab two weeks :o before he stepped into the ring with Martinez. So a Pavlik, who was nowhere near 100% pulled even(maybe a point ahead with the kd) after 8 rounds...before he was cut in the 9th and broke down ala Juan Diaz when he saw his own blood.
I think the whole "Pavlik can't fight movers" thing is overblown a bit due to the Hopkins defeat. Sure that's the style that would give a guy like him fits...but he had started to figure Martinez out who is one of the most versatile boxers in the game today. I think had he not been cut we were looking at a close 1 or 2 point fight.
Got to agree with Mick again. Both can still make Arum money, absolutely no point sacrificing one to boost the other whe he can continue to give both soft fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickThere is no way in fucking hell they put Jr in front of Pavlik... Ouma was on a losing streak but won his last fight and picked up some strap.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhat about Chavez Jr and Andy Lee? Both are pretty high profile and I think Pavlik can knock them both out. That would make a statement. I didn't even know Ouma was still around, I thought he lost like 5 in a row or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Maybe if he ditches his trainer. He needs to add to his arsenal, all he does is throw 1,2's. TBH I think its his crappy trainer. His defense could use help too. BTW why would you jump around weight classes to fight B-Hop, that was just a stupid move.
Are Chavez and Pavlik both with Bob Arum? I didn't know that? Shame that seems a great matchup to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnGot to agree with Mick again. Both can still make Arum money, absolutely no point sacrificing one to boost the other whe he can continue to give both soft fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickThere is no way in fucking hell they put Jr in front of Pavlik... Ouma was on a losing streak but won his last fight and picked up some strap.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhat about Chavez Jr and Andy Lee? Both are pretty high profile and I think Pavlik can knock them both out. That would make a statement. I didn't even know Ouma was still around, I thought he lost like 5 in a row or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I still want Pavlik to face Williams, that fight was scheduled a couple times and is the perfect crossroads fight.
Chavez and Lee make perfect sense although not if promoted by the same promoter.
I can't see that Ouma offers anything though :-\ I just checked his record, lost 5 out of 6 then beat Contender Joey Gilbert but only after being dropped and way down on all cards by about 4 or 5 rounds out of 7.
Yeah, Chavez headlines his Latin Fury PPV's and with name recognition is bringing in Arum decent money. If he keeps winning, he stays relevent. Before the Hopkins loss, Pavlik was one of Arum's crown jewels. He was calling him his new Tommy Hearns. As the former middleweight king, I can't see Arum suddenly using him as a whipping boy just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboAre Chavez and Pavlik both with Bob Arum? I didn't know that? Shame that seems a great matchup to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnGot to agree with Mick again. Both can still make Arum money, absolutely no point sacrificing one to boost the other whe he can continue to give both soft fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickThere is no way in fucking hell they put Jr in front of Pavlik... Ouma was on a losing streak but won his last fight and picked up some strap.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhat about Chavez Jr and Andy Lee? Both are pretty high profile and I think Pavlik can knock them both out. That would make a statement. I didn't even know Ouma was still around, I thought he lost like 5 in a row or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I still want Pavlik to face Williams, that fight was scheduled a couple times and is the perfect crossroads fight.
Chavez and Lee make perfect sense although not if promoted by the same promoter.
I can't see that Ouma offers anything though :-\ I just checked his record, lost 5 out of 6 then beat Contender Joey Gilbert but only after being dropped and way down on all cards by about 4 or 5 rounds out of 7.