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Looks like Chad wants to be more offensive minded, and decided to go with Steward as his new trainer. Wonder if he's gonna have a tune up fight with Steward or go right to the rematch with pascal??
Chad Dawson hooks up with Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward - ESPN
I think this is a good move by Dawson.
It never hurts to go and learn new things with different trainers, hopefully he will proceed to get better.
You mean, learn how to hold and lean on fighters;D Look for that in Cotto v Mayorga;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
Yeah I suspect your about rightRoss, Steward is obviously a great trainer but he doesn't do the fans any favours for the most part.. Chad really needs to up his conditioning more than anything...He didn't have enough gas to match Pascals output, who himself was completely outworked by Hopkins and showed poor stamina to say the least. I do think Dawson is more than capable of winning the rematch though if he just works more, he had Pascal in trouble in the last round and he should know that he can get it done earlier, he is the better fighter.
He'd stop Steward imo. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
:vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by rossYou mean, learn how to hold and lean on fighters;D Look for that in Cotto v Mayorga;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
It's going to be nice when Mayorga gets his ass whupped by Miguel Cotto...I'll take pleasure in watching that just because of fans like you.
As for Dawson it's a wise choice on paper but the guy has to adapt to the style and that can take several fights to accomplish, but since Chad isn't coming off a devistating loss he should be psychologically prepared in less time. The main problem I had with Chad using John Scully, Dan Birmingham, Floyd Mayweather Sr., and Eddie Mustafa Muhammad is that all of those guys tried to have Chad (at 6'2/6'3) fight in close and that more than likely smothered any power he might have. With tall lanky fighters distance is a KEY, you need distance to put speed, leverage, and full power on a punch. Not everyone thrives under Manny's training, Jermain Taylor didn't do any better under Manny than he did under Pat Burns...though some might say he beat Pavlik in the rematch.
Dawson does have pretty fast hands, I do wonder why or if Freddy Roach was approached.
In all, it's an interesting pairing and it makes sense on paper, I'll be interested to see how Chad adapts, though I do predict if he does as Manny tells him his power will improve.
Oh...don't be like that:(Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Has Dawson had that many trainers already?
If he has, that tells me he's just a lazy fighter. Steward, Roach, anyone! They are not going to be able to implant a killer instinct in him. He just plods along.
I'd much rather watch a Ricardo Mayorga that leaves everything in the ring after taking and throwing everything he has regardless of what condition he's in.
i said it right after their first fight, and felt it even more after the Hopkins fight, Dawson stops Pascal in the rematch, as for ross,wtf does Mayorga have to do with Chad Dawson hiring Steward as his trainer?!?, lay off the crack buddy
I agree with Ross, Mayorga will ktfo of Dawson. ;D
Completely agree...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
I think this will be a great move for BCD.
I genuinely think Manny will bring out another dimension to BCD as a fighter.
Well, I'll let you in to a little secret;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Steward is training Cotto. So watch for Cotto to hold a lot, instead of taking knees;D
why is he gonna hold alot when he'll be smacking Mayorga around like his bitch for about 5 to 6 rounds then end him with left hook downstairsQuote:
Originally Posted by rossWell, I'll let you in to a little secret;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Steward is training Cotto. So watch for Cotto to hold a lot, instead of taking knees;D
if anything Mayorga is going to be looking at the ref to save him as he's done all 3 times he was made another fighters bitch
Chad will win the rematch without a trainer. He knows he wasn't active enough. And he knows he had Pascal hurts. And on top of it all, Pascal took Dawson big payday against Hopkins. As good as Dawson is, he is not a fan favorite. A boxing fan favorite maybe but don't have the appeal to get a PPV fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleswhy is he gonna hold alot when he'll be smacking Mayorga around like his bitch for about 5 to 6 rounds then end him with left hook downstairsQuote:
Originally Posted by rossWell, I'll let you in to a little secret;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Steward is training Cotto. So watch for Cotto to hold a lot, instead of taking knees;D
if anything Mayorga is going to be looking at the ref to save him as he's done all 3 times he was made another fighters bitch
Mayweather and Dawson is cool. Why don't fighters work with other fighters to help them in their flaws? If Dawson train with Mayweather, his stamina will go up a notch. Just wondering!!!
Ross is right, that's what Steward brings to his fighters. A jab, some distance and a bit of spoiling. I don't really see it as an attempt to become more offensive minded at all. It can be tactically effective, but like P4PKing says, it isn't particularly fan friendly.
What does this thread have to do with Ricardo Mayorga anyway? Haha, nuts. ;D
exactly lol ross needs to lay off the smackQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
but back to the topic of the thread, it's not like Steward hasn't had fighters who still had an entertaining style after having him in their corner for long periods of time, Lewis and most notably Hearns both were plenty entertaining
I wasn't particularly enamoured with Lewis, but respect what he brought to the table, certainly more exciting than what Wlad has become. Hearns could be very exciting to watch. I love watching old fights of his. Great fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesexactly lol ross needs to lay off the smackQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
but back to the topic of the thread, it's not like Steward hasn't had fighters who still had an entertaining style after having him in their corner for long periods of time, Lewis and most notably Hearns both were plenty entertaining
Good luck to Chad, hope he loses to Pascal again.
Lewis was the main reason I mentioned holding and leaning! The versions of Lewis and Tyson that fought each other would have 95% been the same result but Lewis still thought Mike that much of a threat that he would lean and hold big time and that's what Stewards fighters seem to do. Any threat at all and they spoil and if Steward instills that negative attitude in to Cotto, to move and try and jab against Mayorga, all he's doing is allowing Mayorga to work and get a rhythm. Same with Dawson,if he hasnt managed to figure out by now that all he needs to do is work more, I dont reckon Steward can do much for him at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesexactly lol ross needs to lay off the smackQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
but back to the topic of the thread, it's not like Steward hasn't had fighters who still had an entertaining style after having him in their corner for long periods of time, Lewis and most notably Hearns both were plenty entertaining
yea i guess Steward is just a Hall of Fame trainer due to his work on HBO, cause all he does is ruin fighters...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLewis was the main reason I mentioned holding and leaning! The versions of Lewis and Tyson that fought each other would have 95% been the same result but Lewis still thought Mike that much of a threat that he would lean and hold big time and that's what Stewards fighters seem to do. Any threat at all and they spoil and if Steward instills that negative attitude in to Cotto, to move and try and jab against Mayorga, all he's doing is allowing Mayorga to work and get a rhythm. Same with Dawson,if he hasnt managed to figure out by now that all he needs to do is work more, I dont reckon Steward can do much for him at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesexactly lol ross needs to lay off the smackQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
but back to the topic of the thread, it's not like Steward hasn't had fighters who still had an entertaining style after having him in their corner for long periods of time, Lewis and most notably Hearns both were plenty entertaining
only time Tyson was a threat to Lewis was when he was munching on his leg in the pre fight tussle other than that Lewis battered him with every punch in the book
actually Cotto/Mayorga will go something like Lewis/Tyson, the better boxer (Cotto) doing everything he damn well feels like to the inferior opponent (Mayorga) and then drag the fight longer than he should have mercifully stopping his opponent
Haha! You forget Steward screaming and begging Lewis between rounds to turn it up. Steward was scared that Mike might get back in to it because he could see Lewis best shots bouncing off of Mike with no result.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyea i guess Steward is just a Hall of Fame trainer due to his work on HBO, cause all he does is ruin fighters...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLewis was the main reason I mentioned holding and leaning! The versions of Lewis and Tyson that fought each other would have 95% been the same result but Lewis still thought Mike that much of a threat that he would lean and hold big time and that's what Stewards fighters seem to do. Any threat at all and they spoil and if Steward instills that negative attitude in to Cotto, to move and try and jab against Mayorga, all he's doing is allowing Mayorga to work and get a rhythm. Same with Dawson,if he hasnt managed to figure out by now that all he needs to do is work more, I dont reckon Steward can do much for him at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesexactly lol ross needs to lay off the smackQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
but back to the topic of the thread, it's not like Steward hasn't had fighters who still had an entertaining style after having him in their corner for long periods of time, Lewis and most notably Hearns both were plenty entertaining
only time Tyson was a threat to Lewis was when he was munching on his leg in the pre fight tussle other than that Lewis battered him with every punch in the book
actually Cotto/Mayorga will go something like Lewis/Tyson, the better boxer (Cotto) doing everything he damn well feels like to the inferior opponent (Mayorga) and then drag the fight longer than he should have mercifully stopping his opponent
LOL, you are all mocking Ross, but he is telling the truth. Steward is a boring trainer and when he gets into the fighters that you like then you automatically have to stop supporting them. Ooh Wlad "throw that jab 200 times more, my dick is so hard". That's just weird. I can't watch boxing like that, but in terms of someone like Lyle, well, how else can you explain the support of the Klit twins? Must be a total fag, but I will let the other board decide as I am a gent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
It does seem with Steward that for every gret partnership he has, there are other fighters who he just makes worse imo.
Jermain Taylor
Kermit Cintron
Andy Lee even?
Maybe all would have been better under someone else....
Thing with Steward is, he is a good trainer. He has created some very good fighter but when he gets established fighters they are either on the comeback or on the wane. The reason these fighters go to the big name trainers is because their careers are on the line and they need a known quantity.
A fighter like Cotto or Dawson moving to Steward at this stage of their careers is all about damage limitation.
Why are people supporting a Cotto Vs Mayorga fight? It should be Cotto vs Berto!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyea i guess Steward is just a Hall of Fame trainer due to his work on HBO, cause all he does is ruin fighters...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLewis was the main reason I mentioned holding and leaning! The versions of Lewis and Tyson that fought each other would have 95% been the same result but Lewis still thought Mike that much of a threat that he would lean and hold big time and that's what Stewards fighters seem to do. Any threat at all and they spoil and if Steward instills that negative attitude in to Cotto, to move and try and jab against Mayorga, all he's doing is allowing Mayorga to work and get a rhythm. Same with Dawson,if he hasnt managed to figure out by now that all he needs to do is work more, I dont reckon Steward can do much for him at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesexactly lol ross needs to lay off the smackQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
but back to the topic of the thread, it's not like Steward hasn't had fighters who still had an entertaining style after having him in their corner for long periods of time, Lewis and most notably Hearns both were plenty entertaining
only time Tyson was a threat to Lewis was when he was munching on his leg in the pre fight tussle other than that Lewis battered him with every punch in the book
actually Cotto/Mayorga will go something like Lewis/Tyson, the better boxer (Cotto) doing everything he damn well feels like to the inferior opponent (Mayorga) and then drag the fight longer than he should have mercifully stopping his opponent
Most people know that Cotto is on his last few fights and they want him to win some of the fights before he retires. Berto would be too much of a test for him, let him fight past it Mayorga and featherfisted Foreman types.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant LiveWhy are people supporting a Cotto Vs Mayorga fight? It should be Cotto vs Berto!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyea i guess Steward is just a Hall of Fame trainer due to his work on HBO, cause all he does is ruin fighters...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLewis was the main reason I mentioned holding and leaning! The versions of Lewis and Tyson that fought each other would have 95% been the same result but Lewis still thought Mike that much of a threat that he would lean and hold big time and that's what Stewards fighters seem to do. Any threat at all and they spoil and if Steward instills that negative attitude in to Cotto, to move and try and jab against Mayorga, all he's doing is allowing Mayorga to work and get a rhythm. Same with Dawson,if he hasnt managed to figure out by now that all he needs to do is work more, I dont reckon Steward can do much for him at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesexactly lol ross needs to lay off the smackQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
but back to the topic of the thread, it's not like Steward hasn't had fighters who still had an entertaining style after having him in their corner for long periods of time, Lewis and most notably Hearns both were plenty entertaining
only time Tyson was a threat to Lewis was when he was munching on his leg in the pre fight tussle other than that Lewis battered him with every punch in the book
actually Cotto/Mayorga will go something like Lewis/Tyson, the better boxer (Cotto) doing everything he damn well feels like to the inferior opponent (Mayorga) and then drag the fight longer than he should have mercifully stopping his opponent
I'm taking Pascal to stop Mayorga
I'll tak Steward to stop Cotto and Dawson;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Fuck Steward.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong:vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by rossYou mean, learn how to hold and lean on fighters;D Look for that in Cotto v Mayorga;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
It's going to be nice when Mayorga gets his ass whupped by Miguel Cotto...I'll take pleasure in watching that just because of fans like you.
As for Dawson it's a wise choice on paper but the guy has to adapt to the style and that can take several fights to accomplish, but since Chad isn't coming off a devistating loss he should be psychologically prepared in less time. The main problem I had with Chad using John Scully, Dan Birmingham, Floyd Mayweather Sr., and Eddie Mustafa Muhammad is that all of those guys tried to have Chad (at 6'2/6'3) fight in close and that more than likely smothered any power he might have. With tall lanky fighters distance is a KEY, you need distance to put speed, leverage, and full power on a punch. Not everyone thrives under Manny's training, Jermain Taylor didn't do any better under Manny than he did under Pat Burns...though some might say he beat Pavlik in the rematch.
Dawson does have pretty fast hands, I do wonder why or if Freddy Roach was approached.
In all, it's an interesting pairing and it makes sense on paper, I'll be interested to see how Chad adapts, though I do predict if he does as Manny tells him his power will improve.
He's an opportunist who uses his gig at HBO to market himself to young fighters, steal them away from their trainers, have limited brief success with them (Cintron, Taylor), make money off them, then dump them and move on to the next guy.
And WHO thinks Taylor beat Pavlik in the rematch ???
I hope Mayorga beats Cotto just because of fans like you Lyle. ;D
Happy New Year buddy. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
I've never forgiven Steward for his work with Jermain Taylor. People can say what they want about Taylor's carreer and the different reasons for it spiraling down so quickly, but the facts are that when Jermain switched trainers from Pat Burns to Steward he took a huge nose dive Very quickly. When Taylor was under Pat Burns he stuck to what he did best and that was a laser jab. He beat longtime defending champ Hopkins twice with that jab. And then the switch to Steward. I've never understood why you would switch trainers right after you won the Middle weight tiltle? I know Steward is a HOF trainer but I also think he's overated. Its almost like he tries to make every one of his fighters be Tommy Hearns. Hearns was a KO artist, an offensive jaugernaut that could knock you out with both hands. Taylor was a Jab one-two guy and to each fighter his own. You have to play off someones strength not try to totally reinvint Taylor to be a reincarnate of Hearns and your past glory days. Taylor's physical conditioning went to complete and utter crap, he stopped using his jab, and his defense suffered all the while he traded it for a little more flashy combinations and more dynamic punching. I don't like the trade off. Not that Chad Dawson is Jermain Taylor or anything I just dont think Emanuel Steward is always the perfect fit. Just my opinion.
funny how you forgot to mention Taylor's self noted lack of dedication while he was with Steward, same goes with CintronQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFanQuote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
I've never forgiven Steward for his work with Jermain Taylor. People can say what they want about Taylor's carreer and the different reasons for it spiraling down so quickly, but the facts are that when Jermain switched trainers from Pat Burns to Steward he took a huge nose dive Very quickly. When Taylor was under Pat Burns he stuck to what he did best and that was a laser jab. He beat longtime defending champ Hopkins twice with that jab. And then the switch to Steward. I've never understood why you would switch trainers right after you won the Middle weight tiltle? I know Steward is a HOF trainer but I also think he's overated. Its almost like he tries to make every one of his fighters be Tommy Hearns. Hearns was a KO artist, an offensive jaugernaut that could knock you out with both hands. Taylor was a Jab one-two guy and to each fighter his own. You have to play off someones strength not try to totally reinvint Taylor to be a reincarnate of Hearns and your past glory days. Taylor's physical conditioning went to complete and utter crap, he stopped using his jab, and his defense suffered all the while he traded it for a little more flashy combinations and more dynamic punching. I don't like the trade off. Not that Chad Dawson is Jermain Taylor or anything I just dont think Emanuel Steward is always the perfect fit. Just my opinion.
Chad has skills, no doubt about that. I spoke to a fighter that was in his camp before the Pascal fight and he said the camp was a joke, couldn't wait to leave. Dawson's intensity is an issue. He could have wiped the floor with Pascal but he wasn't willing to go to war. I think a trainer that could help him is Joe Goosen; give him a Corrales like inside game.
Not that I'm a particular fan of maxboxing forums because they are very cliquey but I had a nose recently and their members opinions on Dawson going with Steward is a lot different to the majority on here. Most of them don't think it will help Dawsons output or to be more aggressive either.
Is a trainer void of all responsibilty in keeping his fighter dedicated, hungry, and on track mentally? I thought that was half of their job?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesfunny how you forgot to mention Taylor's self noted lack of dedication while he was with Steward, same goes with CintronQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFanQuote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
I've never forgiven Steward for his work with Jermain Taylor. People can say what they want about Taylor's carreer and the different reasons for it spiraling down so quickly, but the facts are that when Jermain switched trainers from Pat Burns to Steward he took a huge nose dive Very quickly. When Taylor was under Pat Burns he stuck to what he did best and that was a laser jab. He beat longtime defending champ Hopkins twice with that jab. And then the switch to Steward. I've never understood why you would switch trainers right after you won the Middle weight tiltle? I know Steward is a HOF trainer but I also think he's overated. Its almost like he tries to make every one of his fighters be Tommy Hearns. Hearns was a KO artist, an offensive jaugernaut that could knock you out with both hands. Taylor was a Jab one-two guy and to each fighter his own. You have to play off someones strength not try to totally reinvint Taylor to be a reincarnate of Hearns and your past glory days. Taylor's physical conditioning went to complete and utter crap, he stopped using his jab, and his defense suffered all the while he traded it for a little more flashy combinations and more dynamic punching. I don't like the trade off. Not that Chad Dawson is Jermain Taylor or anything I just dont think Emanuel Steward is always the perfect fit. Just my opinion.
when it comes down to it, it's the fighter's job to put in the work, he shouldn't have to have his trainer on his ass to do when he knows he has to do, the trainer's job is to get you in shape, get you ready (strategy-wise), and coach you in the fight (giving you direction and talking you through the fight), not to babysit youQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFanIs a trainer void of all responsibilty in keeping his fighter dedicated, hungry, and on track mentally? I thought that was half of their job?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesfunny how you forgot to mention Taylor's self noted lack of dedication while he was with Steward, same goes with CintronQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFanQuote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
I've never forgiven Steward for his work with Jermain Taylor. People can say what they want about Taylor's carreer and the different reasons for it spiraling down so quickly, but the facts are that when Jermain switched trainers from Pat Burns to Steward he took a huge nose dive Very quickly. When Taylor was under Pat Burns he stuck to what he did best and that was a laser jab. He beat longtime defending champ Hopkins twice with that jab. And then the switch to Steward. I've never understood why you would switch trainers right after you won the Middle weight tiltle? I know Steward is a HOF trainer but I also think he's overated. Its almost like he tries to make every one of his fighters be Tommy Hearns. Hearns was a KO artist, an offensive jaugernaut that could knock you out with both hands. Taylor was a Jab one-two guy and to each fighter his own. You have to play off someones strength not try to totally reinvint Taylor to be a reincarnate of Hearns and your past glory days. Taylor's physical conditioning went to complete and utter crap, he stopped using his jab, and his defense suffered all the while he traded it for a little more flashy combinations and more dynamic punching. I don't like the trade off. Not that Chad Dawson is Jermain Taylor or anything I just dont think Emanuel Steward is always the perfect fit. Just my opinion.
I don't know if their partnership will work either. I hope it works out but I have my doubts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
If you go through 4-5 different trainers and you still have the same problems...chances are it's you.
Exactly!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerFanI don't know if their partnership will work either. I hope it works out but I have my doubts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
If you go through 4-5 different trainers and you still have the same problems...chances are it's you.
Makes me laugh now to think how people thought he would be a serious threat to Calzaghe! Same with Pavlik! Imagine if instead of retiring Joe fought and then completely routed Pavlik then Dawson;) Oh and dont forget Froch too;D
The greatest line from a trainer I ever heard.
"I'm concussion crazy . . .!" Manny Steward
I think Manny is only ever truly right for a very SPECIFIC type of fighter; Tall, Long Limbed & Detestatingly Powerfull.
That's why I also believe that Manny won't really do Miguel any favours. However Chad may just be right for the job... He isn't a massive puncher but when he puts his punches together he is pretty leathal so maybe if Manny gets rid of that excess movement and works on establishing a reprepitoire that accommodates the change...?
I think its too late in the day to try and make adjustments for fighters like Cotto and Dawson or any fighter with their experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grinch
Steward may well be able to create a good fighter from scratch but to take a fighter with a style of their own its just not going to do anything. A fighter that strips through trainers like Chad has, or Holyfield or De La Hoya, or even Hatton. They are just fooling themselves that its the trainers fault and not their own for not listening or focusing or training hard enough!
What change has Roach made to Kahn that exactly the same wouldnt happen again if he fought a rematch with Prescott?? He might take a little longer to get caught but as we saw with Maidana, he still will get caught!