Great show so far...Andrei has so much talent but the guy needs to hang em up..His chin has completely left the building...and HOLY Shit Antonio Silva just beat Fedor...amazing.
Printable View
Great show so far...Andrei has so much talent but the guy needs to hang em up..His chin has completely left the building...and HOLY Shit Antonio Silva just beat Fedor...amazing.
The aura around Fedor has totally gone now. He got completely battered by a freak show.
That's like Wlad being dominated by Nikolay Valuev.
Cain Valasquez is the true heavyweight king. He'd destroy Fedor imo.
Fedor had have to quit a long time ago. To be 8 years on the top of his sport is just phenomenal. There is nothing to show any more. He is the best and no one will surpass his achievments and skills in a while! I hope he doesn't have financial problems.
It's pretty ignorant to call Big Foot a freakshow. He was a legit top ten HW going in to the fight tonight. He's a 285 lb BJJ black belt, has good Muay Thai and his wrestling is solid. It's not like Fedor just got blasted by Zuluzinhio of Hong Man Choi. And Big Foot would be favored over all but 3 or 4 UFC HW's (Velasquez and maybe JDS would be favored, Brock and Carwin are pick 'ems).
Fedors eye was messed up. He got owned standing up and on ground. Whos to say silva would not have done this to him five years ago.
his is going to turn into a case of 'Fedor was never that good anyway' I don't buy that! He's the greatest heavyweight and one of the greatest P4P MMA fighters in history imo. Much like with RJJ (although he is obviously way more past his best than Fedor) I will not forget how good he was in his prime, just becuase he has stareted to lose late in his career.
some friends and i talked about fedor before he got beat by werdum. i asked one of my friend, who is a big fan of fedor about fedors achievements.
who is the best heavy fedor beat? is he really that impressive?
brett rogers?
tim sylvia?
hong man choi?
the only legit guys are arlovski who was doing great if not for the glass chin, crocop who is a small heavy and big nog.
The truth is that there simply are not that many great athletes much less fighters at the size of a MMA or even boxing HW. Even in 200+ years of history with boxing there have really only been two great HW eras. Fedor fought everyone put in front of him and just plain won. I think his resume is pretty good compared to just about any other HW out there. Personally I think the guy fights again.
I felt genuinely sad watching Fedor's fight last night. Kinda like when Roy Jones was beaten by Tarver. Sometimes it's easy to forget a fighter isn't invincible. If he retires, he'll go down as one of the best ever.
Brett Rogers (top 10), Andrei Arlovski (number 3), Tim Sylvia (top 5), Mark Hunt (top 10), Mirko Filipović (number 2) Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira (number 2) Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira (number 2, emded in NC), Kevin Randleman (top ten), Mark Coleman (top 10, their first fight), Kazayuki Fujita (top 10), Antonio Rôdrigo Nogueira (numer 1), Heath Herring (top 5) Semmy Schilt (top 10, was supposed to fight Nog for the title, Nog got hurt, Fedor was a late replacement), plus he beat Babalu and Arona in RINGS, both were top guys at the time. He was supposed to fight Barnett (number 2) at Affliction: Trilogy (Josh failed the pre-fight drug test), and Werdum and Big Foot were both top 10Quote:
Originally Posted by mnmc10
the heavyweight pool is so small that all of the fighters will be in the top ten. so we really cant base how good a fighter is because of his standings. in mma sometimes all you need is luck, selling power and notoriety image to land the number one slot. (lesnar) so we really should base it on quality of opponents.
bretts only notable win b4 he fought fedor was crocop and james thompson, the later is a human punchbag. mark hunt isnt even a full blown mma fighter. coleman was 40 when fedor beat him.
fedor is like kimbo slice the internet street fighter not the mma fighter in terms of popularity. both where made to look godlike and unbeatable. but got exposed eventually....
since mma is still in its infancy and there are very few good heavies. then fedor is one of the best but until he hasnt fought guys like cain, rua, dos santos heck even couture.he shouldnt be made to look like the god of mma heavyweights.
So rankings can't be trusted? How about this: 12 wins against MMA champions (RINGS, UFC, Pride, Pancrase), 4 wins against striking champions (at least national level), 10 wins against grappling champions (at least national level)
Brett's only wins were Cro-Cop and Thompson? Brett Rogers? His only big win was Arlovski, but what about JDS and Cain? Dos Santos' only big win is Werdum, his next best is Big Country (well rounded, but hardly top level). Cain's only big wins are Zombie Nog and Lesnar. By Rua do you mean Mauricio "Shogun"? Wrong weight class, Shogun's at 205.
Lesnar, aside from being an NCAA D-1 champ, has the best set of wins in the UFC at HW! Herring (tough vet with a ton of experience, been fighting at or near the top for almost a decade), Couture (champ), Mir (champ), and Carwin (champ). All of whom were supposed destroy him before they fought.
Coleman was no good because he was 40, but he needs to fight Couture? Randy's 45 or 46, you know, older than 40.
Apply your standard of measure for Fedor to any other HW, ever. I guarantee you Fedor will outshine them all, by a wide, wide margin.
i guess you are right captain! you made me respect fedor a little bit more.
i never said he is not a good fighter, but i question the godlike status hes been getting from fanboys. the unbeatable aura people gave fedor kinda ruined it for me.
just to keep on topic look at rey sefo, he is pretty much a masculine version of mark hunt. look how easy he got beat.
just a few years back one dimensional fighters can be champ easy. but now its different, there are a ton of new fighters who are so well rounded. fedor needs to fight new breed fighters. guys who are good at stand up can defend well against submissions and has a good wrestling base.
though cain jds and a few other fighters doesnt have a lot of fights i do think they stand a better chance against fedor. cause all of them are so well rounded. oh and a 47 yr old couture has better cardio than most of the young fighters now. so its really unfair to compare coleman's age against couture. :)
Genuinely sorry for Fedor.
I believe he's well past his best. It went by without him noticing...
And now as MMA blossoms his best is over, he missed out on the big money and maximum exposure. Poor guy, they're going to try enhance others with his name
mnmc10, Hunt got in to MMA much younger, and made a serious run at being great. Sefo seems to be in it for fun at the end of his career. Not a fair comparison.
Coleman was still one of the best wrestlers in the division, and his only loss since the 2000 GP was Nog. Plus, in Japan, Coleman was a juiced up 250.
I agree that the fanboys are extreme, but Fedor earned his "aura". He was usually undersized and usually not oughtright "better", on paper. Arlovski was faster and a better boxer, but fedor KO'd him on the feet. Nog was a much butter submission grappler, but Fedor dominated from within his guard. Cro-Cop was a much better striker in general with equal speed, an awesome sprawl and an unparalleled ability to get back to his feet if he was taken down, Fedor beat him up on the feet, took him down and kept him there. Coleman and Randleman were monster wrestlers with power, Fedor beat them both off his back. Etc., etc., etc., Fedor's "aura" comes from a decade of dominating guys where they're best. He never "fought smart", he just fought. Since he didn't play to their weakness, well roundedness was less important. Also, guys like Nog and Cro-Cop get kind of a bad rap. Nog had great BJJ and good boxing, in his prime, he was well rounded, now he's slower, can't move as well, doesn't react quickly and his chin is shot. Cro-Cop was the best striker at HW, had great defensive wrestling and BJJ, now he won't commit to strikes, won't throw when he has openings, is losing the reflexes for sprawling, hugs off his back instead of wrestling out, and is losing his chin. Nog and Cro-Cop from 2005 were two of the best, most well rounded guys out there, better than many today. Velasquez is completely unproven against strikers, and Dos Santos against grapplers.
Most fans don't respect what Fedor's done because they just don't know. If you didn't see Fedor's run in context, it doesn't look as impressive. I was not fortunate enough to see his Pride run live, but my interest in MMA coincided with a knee surgery, and with shear dumb luck I found Pride DVDs. I got to watch his entire run without any foreknowledge or preconceptions, within the context of history. If you don't understand were these guys were in the early to mid 2000's, and only know them now, they look like cans. But all fighters fade, Liddel had the same "aura", but people didn't shit talk him or rip apart his career (which is easy to do) when got KO'd in his last several fights.
I didn't mean to write a 5 paragraph essay, sorry about that. The Fedor hate's running wild on MMA forums right now, so I'm a little defensive. I'm just passionate about MMA, sorry
Yeah I hate that people are going to be like fedor just wasn't that good to begin with...shit you're not on top as long as he was without being no good. Jim rome the douchebag was exactly trying to make that point. I think he partially got old and partially lost the fire...if you listen to the interview after the werdum loss he kind of just seemed to not give a shit...best hw ever imo. Hang em up and f what the haters say.
captain,
mark hunt was great when he was in k1, but once he started fighting at mma. he heavily relied with his stand up.
Well what did you expect? A slick submission game? Lesnar relies on his wrestling, Werdum and Big Foot their BJJ, Cro-Cop his striking, Yoshida his Judo, etc. Most every fighter has a base that rely heavily on, then they compliment it with crosstraining. What fighter is well rounded six fights in? The fact that he beat Wanderlei, Cro-Cop (both in 2005) and TK in his first six fights speaks volumes. Similar to Lesnar beating Herring, Mir and Couture in his first five. Even if he loses his next five, I doesn't change where he was when fought FedorQuote:
Originally Posted by mnmc10
to know a little bit of everything? or atleast to be able to anticipate an armbar? doesnt have to be the best bjj or wrestling.
I believe Fedor has something remaining for a few more good fights, his time has not come yet even though it'll come to it quite soon.
He didn't have to. Dana offered him $5m per fight just to fight in the UFC and an immediate crack at the then Champion, Brock Lesnar. He turned it down because he didn't want to hand over the rights to his name, or leave M1-Global, or be shackled to 1 organisation. To turn down that kind of bank, he's either stupid, or comfortable he can make better money elsewhere with endorsements and other extras.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueno